# 2020-10-28 conda-forge core meeting

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[Zoom link](https://flatiron.zoom.us/j/93242638216?pwd=bjRCWmVJRW1oTGJhN09VUmxtTTJOUT09)
[What time is the meeting in my time zone](https://arewemeetingyet.com/UTC/2020-08-26/17:00/w/Conda-forge%20dev%20meeting#eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2hhY2ttZC5pby9wUk15dFVKV1FmU3NJM2xvMGlqQzJRP2VkaXQifQ==)
[last weeks meeting](https://hackmd.io/1mI2fg1wS2O9Vho_if6Z6Q)

## Attendees
- Marius van Niekerk
- Connor Martin
- Filipe Fernandes
- Matthew R Becker
- Cheng Lee
- Keith Kraus
- Ray Douglass

## Agenda

### Standing items

* [x] intros for new folks on the call

* [x] (CJ) budget
* current approvals?
* Whenever updated numbers land, please screenshare and show the budget.
* Link is in Keybase (numfocus_spreadsheets.txt)

* [x] (MRB/ED/SC) Roadmap / Funding
* goal is to spend 15 minutes each core meeting for ~3-4 meetings to discuss this
* Save last 15 minutes for this.
* https://hackmd.io/0zGSUS71SbOdBsdLtDmGjg
* notes will get added to hackmd above
* MRB will collate into a document of sorts
* Today I have two ideas for discussion
* do some sizing and try and get a sense of how much each item might cost in terms of developer days and dollars
* have a rambling discussion on where conda-forge is going and what we want to do in the next 5 years or so

#### From previous meeting(s)

* [x] (MRB / ED / SC) Roadmap / Funding? Discussion in gitter:
* (SC) What would CF do as a project if it received funding? Maybe having some kind of whitepapers on the conda-forge website would help. Would conda-forge do something very different if some corporation gave 10k, 100k, or 1M to the project via NumFOCUS?
* 10k: does it buy enough hosting to do something interesting?
* 100k - what does it bring.
* A much larger amount: conda-forge may even be able to have funded people directly working on the project.
* We can almost certainly find a lot useful stuff that would not hurt getting funding for without necessarily having to get consensus on a roadmap. (something i think would not be controversial, like oh we could use some funding to do some nice web development for better visualization of migrations, or stuff) there are probably a lor of things of that nature.
* If we make a list, Santa may just show up...
* see the bloomberg note above...
* wishlist and ideas: https://hackmd.io/0zGSUS71SbOdBsdLtDmGjg
* (ED) Can we add initials for whomever submitted the idea? would be useful to track that if there are follow-on questions
* (MRB) Start chatting on this for 15 minutes in the next core meeting

### Your __new__() agenda items

* [x] (IF) Ask Anaconda Inc for more storage for cf-staging.
* (CHL) Will raise with Anaconda IT this week :tada: (CAS: Updated the storage for cf-staging to 100GB 10/18: MRB: Thank you!)
* TODO: Matt, can you write down that thing you just said about pushing commits to restart the builds?
* yes!
* (WV) Will be working with OVH to set up Quetz on their infra. Revisit after the new year.
* [x] (MDT) Souschef - Marcelo
* [x] (FF) SciPy Windows build long and short term plans:
* build with ifort, deal with channel priority churn when defaults has one;
* Consider Intel oneAPI (still in beta, and need to check license): https://software.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/tools/oneapi/hpc-toolkit.html
* TODO: Marius ping folks at intel about getting access to this for our CI. From Marius 2020-10-28: No legal problems with installing the oneapi stuff
* build with msys2 (we'll need help from someone intimated with numpy.distutils);
* wait until defaults have one and move the migration forward without SciPy on Windows. (May require some bot workarounds.)
* py39 migration stuck because of scipy on windows.
* for py38, Marius built the scipy windows one locally on windows machine, uploaded it, etc. Then we also replicated all of the latest versions of scipy from defaults into our channel to deal with channel priority. Can't quite remember all of the details. (IF) Marius built 3.8. Then copied the other python versions for the latest scipy version from defaults.
* Given the Anaconda timeline of ~1 month we should just wait for anaconda to provide
* [x] (CHL) Pending compiler updates for defaults
* Linux: GCC 9.x vs 10.x.
* gfortran 8/9/10/11 should have the same ABI
* 10.3 is what ppl are thinking about at anaconda
* NVCC not comaptible with GCC 10; nvcc 10.0 -> GCC 7, nvcc 10.1,10.2 -> GCC 8; nvcc 11.0 -> GCC 9, nvcc 11.1 -> GCC 10
* Support chart here: https://gist.github.com/ax3l/9489132
* only applies to compiling code for the device (.cu files), can use CUDA libraries and host APIs without nvcc
* Windows: VS 2015 or 2017
* CF using 2017 for Python >=3.5.

### Pushed to next meeting

### Active votes

### Subteam updates

#### Bot

#### ARM

#### POWER

#### CUDA

#### Docs

#### staged-recipes

#### website

#### security+systems

### CI infrastructure

#### Compiler upgrade

### CFEP updates

#### Open PRs

* [cfep-04](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/7) X11 and CDT policy
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs new champion. Thanks for your work on this pkgw! Has unaddressed comments from pkgw as from Jan 10, 2020

* [cfep-06](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/9) Staged-recipes review lifecycle
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Lingering comment from @saraedum. @jakirkham, can you reply? Has unadressed comment from @saraedum from Jan 8, 2020
* (MRB) The stalebot has solved the worst of the issues here. I think we could defer this one permanently.

* [cfep-10](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/15) Feedstock statuses, unmaintained
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs another review. Has unaddressed updates from pkgw as of Jan 11, 2020

* [cfep-12](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/23) Removing packages that violate the terms of the source package
* Stalled since May 26, 2020
* Active debate about moving to "broken" vs deleting from conda-forge channel
* Active vote, ends on 2020-03-11
* What were the results of the vote?
* Did we hear back from NumFOCUS?

* [cfep-17](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/32) Handling pin backports and dependency rebuilds
* Stalled debate about implementation details between Isuru, CJ and Matt
* **UPDATE 2020-07-22**: We in principle have agreement to render the extra pinnings needed directly in the feedstock
on a temporary basis (i.e., until the migration has ended).

* [cfep-20](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/39)

## Discussion

## Check in on previous action items
Copy previous action items from last meeting agenda.

### This meeting
2020-10-28

### Last meeting
2020-10-21
* [ ] (Marius?) Python 2.7 migration
* ( ) [ ] make a hint
* ( ) [ ] make an announcement
* ( ) [ ] make the hint a lint

### 2 meetings ago
2020-10-07
* [ ] Make sure to add the NVBug info to the cudatoolkit package that conda-forge makes (if we make one)

2020-09-30

### Move to Issue Tracker
2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB)
* do libgfortran name change
* add target platform to hashes
* do gfortran migration with bot
* bump pinnings

2020-09-16
* [x] Get a call set up with Jon Mease about the kaleido staged recipes PR
* Emailed on 2020-09-16
* [x] (FF) Open up a PR on the python feedstock for python 3.9 and see what fails

2020-09-09
* [ ] (ED) Update governance docs with similar voting model as what got put into conda-tools (+3 with no -1 is a pass)
* [ ] (SC) Write jinja template to turn institutional partners yaml into a website https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/master/src/inst_partners.yaml
* [ ] (SC) Document what needs to be done to create an OVH account and get access

2020-08-26
**Docker hub**
* [ ] (JK) Check in on Azure build workers to see if they have the docker hub limitation.
* [ ] (JK) work with dockerhub to see if we can get OSS status
* [ ] Check in again at some point. We haven't heard back as of 2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB) start pushing images to quay (https://github.com/conda-forge/docker-images/pull/152)

**OVH**
* [ ] (???) build webpage to credit them (and others)
* [ ] If we're adding a logo, will want to make sure that we have permission to use it.
* [ ] Shout-out on twitter at some point. "Thanks forOVHCloud for providing a VM", etc. (maybe after we ship qt on windows with it?)

* [ ] Figure out how to communicate breaking changes to users. Likely should open up an issue immediately for futher discussion. Ping @kkraus, plus capture notes from further up in these meeting notes

* [ ] John K. will update the cuda toolkit feedstock on the git repo to note the NVBug link to the internal NVIDIA issue tracker
* [ ] Jonathan will update docs to note that some non-exhaustive list of packages (like cuda-toolkit, MKL, etc.)
* [ ] Jonathan will review this [PR](https://github.com/AnacondaRecipes/cudatoolkit-feedstock/pull/7)

* [ ] (Kale) schedule conda working group
* [ ] cfep-10 next steps: CJ to call a vote for feedback
* [ ] cfep-06 next steps: Ask staged recipes team to champion this CFEP and move it forward
* [ ] jakirkham & CJ-wright to sync on adding CUDA to the migration bot
* [ ] (Eric) Scheduling Anaconda <-> conda-forge sync on anaconda.org requirements gathering
* Will try and get this scheduled in the next month.
* [ ] (Anthony) Reach out to NumFocus to figure out legal ramifications of not including licenses in files.
* [ ] (Eric) check internally for funding levels for hotels & flying folks from the community in?
* [ ] (Eric) Figure out finances of conda-forge to support themselves?
* [ ] (jjhelmus) Open up CFEP for which python's we're going to support
* [ ] (jakirkham) write a blog post on CUDA stuff we discussed today
* [ ] (jakirkham) update docs on how to add CUDA support to feedstocks
* [ ] (jakirkham) will open an issue on conda-smithy to investigate Drone issues. (ping the aarch team)
* https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/954
* [ ] (ED) Who we are page? Some combination of a FAQ and a who is everyone. FAQ things like:
* who's the POC for CF <> Anaconda, CF <> NumFocus, CF <> Azure
* who's the POC for the various subteams?
* Informal information: roles, day jobs, bios, the whole nine yards, why you're here, etc.
* Public or internal? I don't really care either way. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other?
* opt-in to public bios
* software carpentry has a large number of instructors and has https://carpentries.org/instructors
* some concern about "yet another place to keep stuff up to date"
* [ ] (ED) document strategies for reproducible environments using conda-forge
* [ ] (UK) Static libraries stuff
* [ ] Add linting hints to builds to find them
* [x] Recommend how to package them -> CFEP-18
* [x] We should write docs saying we don't provide support and this is a bad idea. -> CFEP-18