# 2020-10-14 conda-forge core meeting

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[Zoom link](https://flatiron.zoom.us/j/93242638216?pwd=bjRCWmVJRW1oTGJhN09VUmxtTTJOUT09)
[What time is the meeting in my time zone](https://arewemeetingyet.com/UTC/2020-08-26/17:00/w/Conda-forge%20dev%20meeting#eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2hhY2ttZC5pby9wUk15dFVKV1FmU3NJM2xvMGlqQzJRP2VkaXQifQ==)
[last weeks meeting](https://hackmd.io/imt8mFUnQ4ud__-N-aNEsw) [github](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/master/src/orga/minutes/2020-10-07.md)

## Attendees
* CJ
* Eric D
* Matt B
* Filipe
* Marius
* Sylvain
* Michael S.
* Cheng Lee
* Isuru
* Keith
* Wolf
* Marcel
* Paul I.
* Stephanie
* John K.

## Agenda

### Standing items

* [x] intros for new folks on the call

* [x] (CJ) budget
* current approvals?
* Whenever updated numbers land, please screenshare and show the budget.
* Link is in Keybase (numfocus_spreadsheets.txt)

#### From previous meeting(s)
* [x] (MvN) Faster provisioning of base build env using conda-lock and micromamba (mm)
* the tldr: we can get the windows env provisioning overhead down from 5 minutes to 70 seconds
* Downsides?
* Couple of bits that need to land. mm does not support all of the flags we need to install from a conda lock file (currently being worked on by Wolf. should land soonish)
* (IF) Lockfiles only gives us a few seconds back
* Advantage
* Can exactly version the base environment that's used in all of our builds. GH actions-based repo. Every 5 minutes it regenerates the lock file.
* Action Items:
* try out micromamba without locks on win-64
*
* [x] (PI) aka - tiny shell subcommand switcher: https://sr.ht/~pi/aka/
* blog post: https://pirsquared.org/blog/aka.html

### Your __new__() agenda items

* [x] (SG) bloomberg grant stuff
* Kevin (OSS director) is interested in making a grant to conda-forge. Put together a wishlist of resources that would benefit conda-forge.
* Resource list, overall estimate
* Need to establish a wishlist
* (TODO) Establish a wishlist

* [x] (FF) Push for more testing in the feedstocks. It has been a while that we are using AzurePipelines and the CI limitation reduced significantly. We could start enabling testing by default in the skeleton. This would be the first step towards more auto-merge.
* TODO: Clarify docs around where we say "don't run tests"

* [ ] (MRB) github releases and conda-forge-sparta

* [ ] (MRB / ED / SC) Roadmap / Funding? Discussion in gitter:
* (SC) What would CF do as a project if it received funding? Maybe having some kind of whitepapers on the conda-forge website would help. Would conda-forge do something very different if some corporation gave 10k, 100k, or 1M to the project via NumFOCUS?
* 10k: does it buy enough hosting to do something interesting?
* 100k - what does it bring.
* A much larger amount: conda-forge may even be able to have funded people directly working on the project.
* We can almost certainly find a lot useful stuff that would not hurt getting funding for without necessarily having to get consensus on a roadmap. (something i think would not be controversial, like oh we could use some funding to do some nice web development for better visualization of migrations, or stuff) there are probably a lor of things of that nature.
* If we make a list, Santa may just show up...
* see the bloomberg note above...

* [ ] (MvN) tactical things to do about cython?
* CPython breaks its apis reguarly enough to force a recythoning of much of the python ecosystem.
* Should we patch our cython so that when the `CONDA_BUILD` env var is set, we always recythonize and ignore mtime for files?

* [ ] (MvN) noarch: python v2
* As we increasingly drop compatibility with py27/35/36 should we automatically add python constraints to all `noarch: python` artifacts using repodata pacthing?
* The idea would be to pick an epoch date (say 2020-10-01) and have the artifacts built after that date get a repodata patch adding a python>=3.6 constraint iff it only had a python constraint.

* Additionally we may as well upate the noarch adding bot action that adds noarch to strip all lines containing py27/34/35 selectors from the recipe.
* This should allow us to move lots of feedstocks that currently depend on some things only for py27 compat to noarch: python cutting down on the growth rate of artifacts.

* [x] (IF) CDN down a lot lately
* (CHL) Anaconda actively looking at the issue; hoping to address it in the next couple weeks

* [ ] (WV) multisheller github.com/wolfv/multisheller

* [x] (CHL) FYI - conda 4.9.0 now on conda-canary; planned release on 19 Oct.

### Pushed to next meeting

### Active votes

### Subteam updates

#### Bot

#### ARM

#### POWER

#### CUDA

#### Docs

#### staged-recipes

#### website

#### security+systems

### CI infrastructure

#### Compiler upgrade

### CFEP updates

#### Open PRs

* [cfep-04](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/7) X11 and CDT policy
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs new champion. Thanks for your work on this pkgw! Has unaddressed comments from pkgw as from Jan 10, 2020

* [cfep-06](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/9) Staged-recipes review lifecycle
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Lingering comment from @saraedum. @jakirkham, can you reply? Has unadressed comment from @saraedum from Jan 8, 2020
* (MRB) The stalebot has solved the worst of the issues here. I think we could defer this one permanently.

* [cfep-10](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/15) Feedstock statuses, unmaintained
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs another review. Has unaddressed updates from pkgw as of Jan 11, 2020

* [cfep-12](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/23) Removing packages that violate the terms of the source package
* Stalled since May 26, 2020
* Active debate about moving to "broken" vs deleting from conda-forge channel
* Active vote, ends on 2020-03-11
* What were the results of the vote?
* Did we hear back from NumFOCUS?

* [cfep-17](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/32) Handling pin backports and dependency rebuilds
* Stalled debate about implementation details between Isuru, CJ and Matt
* **UPDATE 2020-07-22**: We in principle have agreement to render the extra pinnings needed directly in the feedstock
on a temporary basis (i.e., until the migration has ended).

## Discussion

## Check in on previous action items
Copy previous action items from last meeting agenda.

### This meeting
2020-10-14

### Last meeting
2020-10-07
* [ ] Make sure to add the NVBug info to the cudatoolkit package that conda-forge makes (if we make one)

### 2 meetings ago
2020-09-30

### Move to Issue Tracker
2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB)
* do libgfortran name change
* add target platform to hashes
* do gfortran migration with bot
* bump pinnings

2020-09-16
* [x] Get a call set up with Jon Mease about the kaleido staged recipes PR
* Emailed on 2020-09-16
* [x] (FF) Open up a PR on the python feedstock for python 3.9 and see what fails

2020-09-09
* [ ] (ED) Update governance docs with similar voting model as what got put into conda-tools (+3 with no -1 is a pass)
* [ ] (SC) Write jinja template to turn institutional partners yaml into a website https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/master/src/inst_partners.yaml
* [ ] (SC) Document what needs to be done to create an OVH account and get access

2020-08-26
**Docker hub**
* [ ] (JK) Check in on Azure build workers to see if they have the docker hub limitation.
* [ ] (JK) work with dockerhub to see if we can get OSS status
* [ ] Check in again at some point. We haven't heard back as of 2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB) start pushing images to quay (https://github.com/conda-forge/docker-images/pull/152)

**OVH**
* [ ] (???) build webpage to credit them (and others)
* [ ] If we're adding a logo, will want to make sure that we have permission to use it.
* [ ] Shout-out on twitter at some point. "Thanks forOVHCloud for providing a VM", etc. (maybe after we ship qt on windows with it?)

* [ ] Figure out how to communicate breaking changes to users. Likely should open up an issue immediately for futher discussion. Ping @kkraus, plus capture notes from further up in these meeting notes

* [ ] John K. will update the cuda toolkit feedstock on the git repo to note the NVBug link to the internal NVIDIA issue tracker
* [ ] Jonathan will update docs to note that some non-exhaustive list of packages (like cuda-toolkit, MKL, etc.)
* [ ] Jonathan will review this [PR](https://github.com/AnacondaRecipes/cudatoolkit-feedstock/pull/7)

* [ ] (Kale) schedule conda working group
* [ ] cfep-10 next steps: CJ to call a vote for feedback
* [ ] cfep-06 next steps: Ask staged recipes team to champion this CFEP and move it forward
* [ ] jakirkham & CJ-wright to sync on adding CUDA to the migration bot
* [ ] (Eric) Scheduling Anaconda <-> conda-forge sync on anaconda.org requirements gathering
* Will try and get this scheduled in the next month.
* [ ] (Anthony) Reach out to NumFocus to figure out legal ramifications of not including licenses in files.
* [ ] (Eric) check internally for funding levels for hotels & flying folks from the community in?
* [ ] (Eric) Figure out finances of conda-forge to support themselves?
* [ ] (jjhelmus) Open up CFEP for which python's we're going to support
* [ ] (jakirkham) write a blog post on CUDA stuff we discussed today
* [ ] (jakirkham) update docs on how to add CUDA support to feedstocks
* [ ] (jakirkham) will open an issue on conda-smithy to investigate Drone issues. (ping the aarch team)
* https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/954
* [ ] (ED) Who we are page? Some combination of a FAQ and a who is everyone. FAQ things like:
* who's the POC for CF <> Anaconda, CF <> NumFocus, CF <> Azure
* who's the POC for the various subteams?
* Informal information: roles, day jobs, bios, the whole nine yards, why you're here, etc.
* Public or internal? I don't really care either way. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other?
* opt-in to public bios
* software carpentry has a large number of instructors and has https://carpentries.org/instructors
* some concern about "yet another place to keep stuff up to date"
* [ ] (ED) document strategies for reproducible environments using conda-forge
* [ ] (UK) Static libraries stuff
* [ ] Add linting hints to builds to find them
* [x] Recommend how to package them -> CFEP-18
* [x] We should write docs saying we don't provide support and this is a bad idea. -> CFEP-18