# conda-forge core meeting 2022-02-09

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[last weeks meeting](https://hackmd.io/KddwXrEcSdmFbBMVamfuLg)
[What time is the meeting in my time zone](https://arewemeetingyet.com/UTC/2020-08-26/17:00/w/Conda-forge%20dev%20meeting#eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2hhY2ttZC5pby9wUk15dFVKV1FmU3NJM2xvMGlqQzJRP2VkaXQifQ==)
Meeting info:
* To join the video meeting, click this link: https://zoom.us/j/9138593505?pwd=SWh3dE1IK05LV01Qa0FJZ1ZpMzJLZz09
* Otherwise, to join by phone, dial [phone] and enter this PIN: 828 997 153#
* To view more phone numbers, click this link: https://tel.meet/ijv-qsvm-tvn?hs=5

## Attendees

| Name | Initials | GitHub ID | Affiliation |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Dave Clements | DPC | @tnabtaf | Anaconda |
| Filipe Fernandes| FF | ocefpaf | conda-forge |
| Cheng H. Lee | CHL | @chenghlee | Anaconda |
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21 people total

## Agenda

### Standing items

* [ ] intros for new folks on the call

* [ ] (FF) budget
* current approvals?
* Whenever updated numbers land, please screenshare and show the budget.
* Link is in Keybase (numfocus_spreadsheets.txt)

* [ ] open votes
* 1 for core, 4 for staged recipes - expect 5 emails from voting system

* [ ] 2022 Outreachy / GSoC
* Ask each week: Any interested parties in owning this?
* News after discussing things at Anaconda
* Discussion 2021-11-03
* If we want to do outreachy again we need a champion - Filipe can't do it next year. Same with GSoC.
* GSoC is free to us
* Outreachy costs us $$ ($6500). $6k for student, $500 for admin
* Some interest from Jannis - he and Filipe will chat about possibly handing off
* Trying to figure out what policy for interns at Anaconda - some overlap maybe.
Jannis wants to pick Filipe's brain. Dave C. has also done this in the past at galaxy
* (FF 2022-01-14) Folks. NumFOCUS is applying as an umbrella org for GSoC again. I won't be able to manage that again b/c I'll be doing that for my day job. If anyone is interested please reach out and I help you apply with NumFOCUS.
* Anaconda is interested in funding outreachy ($6500-$7k) and helping with program managment (from new Berlin based staff)
* Ideas
* JK: docs could be a good idea for interns. Things where people dont need a whole lot of technical knowledge would be great.
* https://github.com/marcelotrevisani/souschef
* Grayskull
* FF: Started with docs last time. this is more on our side. We're going to try next round. Was hoping to get someone to work on Grayskull, but Marcelo just had a kid so...
* JR: Quansight has a summer internship program that could help out with some conda-forge stuff. Not going to do outreachy
* DC: Current outreachy program is june-aug. need to submit community application (conda-forge is already approved) by a 25th of feb (but cf might not need to submit). project proposals will be due shortly after that. Something worth throwing out there, given outreachy's
* DC: Any bandwidth in bioconda to support outreachy?
* MRB: If I can get help reviewing applications, I can handle most of the mentoring
* Jaime, Filipe, Jannis volunteered to help reviewing applications
* Jannis can mentor a more technical intern (maybe doing grayskull)

### From previous meeting(s)

### Your __new__() agenda items

* [x] (CHL) .conda-format support being added to anaconda.org
* Currently, format conversion must be done by builder
* Will need help testing uploading, web pages, CDN sync
* [x] (WV) new `build.py` cross-platform build script format (https://github.com/wolfv/bitfurnace) (modeled )
* [x] (IF) cirun for conda-forge/core only
* [x] Matthias - expert advice on trademark stuff. he handled trademark disputes with jupyter for a while. we could take a peek at what he's done.
* quite a complicated thing. not legal advice. not US citizen. Jupyter trademark has been registered with US govt, owned by numfocus. you have to be careful about defending your trademark. had to deal with trademark infringement. other things to be aware of - jupyter was created because IPython was infringing on python trademark. Have to understand - US Law is not made for people who like to be friendly. When you see companies rewarding shareholders instead of giving money to employees, they're liable to be sued for that. You'd be best if you think like someone who isn't friendly. If you need to defend your trademark you need to prove that you've always defended your trademark, otherwise you run the risk of adversaries saying 'well they didnt defend their trademark so they have no case'. Defending your trademark is pretty broad - anything that anyone could confuse with your project (e.g., Jupyter needs to defend against "Mars" or "Venus" for a similar project). Need to provide explicit authoriziation to use logo and it gets renewed every year. Need to do cease and desist from lawyers. Email sent from individual doesn't really count. Better to have someone infringe and fight it than to never have infringement.
* tl;dr ->
* always involve a lawyer (personal email is usually not enough)
* fight trademark by sending cease and desist or add conditional use. conditional use needs to be renewed every year.
* If any message in core team chat mentions trademark infringement then now we know about it and we have to fight it or give conditional use.
* We should make a page about why we have to enforce trademark
* Example
* https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/
* https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks-faq/
* [x] (WV) bubblewrap for lightweight sandboxing (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Bubblewrap) -- can we ship a Centos root on conda-forge
* [x] (IF) votes ending today
* [x] (DPC) [Outreachy update](https://hackmd.io/uO6vV2V7T8eDyagZ_y7iQA?both) / call for mentors
* [Slack Channel](https://conda.slack.com/archives/C031V83JZU3)
* https://hackmd.io/uO6vV2V7T8eDyagZ_y7iQA?both
* [ ] (JRG) cudatoolkit download/pinning discussion (deferred)

### Active votes

### CFEPs

* [cfep-12](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/23) Removing packages that violate the terms of the source package
* Stalled since May 26, 2020
* Active debate about moving to "broken" vs deleting from conda-forge channel
* Active vote, ends on 2020-03-11
* What were the results of the vote?
* Did we hear back from NumFOCUS? they did the legal seminar which is recorded

### TODOs
2022-01-12
* review Qt PR after logs are uploaded
* Add cupython and cuquantum to don't mirror list
* re: `std=c++14`, Wait for Kai to comment and merge the PR
* CJ and Jaime coordinate to Let Maxiconda know that we can't use their logo
2021-12-01
* WV: Set up meet-and-greet call with homebrew team?
* MRB: (repodata patches) make a cron job that runs show_diff.py and posts an issue + commit if it is non-empty
*
2021-11-03
- Self-hosting CI TODOs:
- Change URL from drone.conda-forge.org. Proposals:
- woodpecker.conda-forge.org
- ci.conda-forge.org
- Set up monitoring
- Quantstack is setting up grafana for the mirror
-

2021-10-18

2021-09-22

* [x] (WV): TensorFlow-GPU ready to go, just need to decide if GPU should get prio over CPU?!
* GPU gets prio

* (MRB) master to main move (https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/1162)
* everything done except feedstocks, releases, conda-smithy, and our github actions
* releases is broken, opened an issue with github
* some options for feedstocks
* make sure to change the upload on branch key
* [x] (MRB) make an announcement on how to update local clones (moved to the issue above)
* [x] (MRB) make sure to update upload_on_branch (moved to the issue above)

2020-11-18
* [ ] (IF/MRB/MV) intel oneAPI
* todo
* [ ] (Nikolay) licensing for opencl_rt
* [ ] (Nikolay) intelmpi ABI compat w/ mpich
* [ ] (MRB/IF) figure out how exactly to package C/C++ compilers
* [ ] (MRB/IF) think about fortran ABI
* [x] (MRB) make conda-forge compilers room (add people including keith)
* [ ] (MB) asking core members to move to "emeritus" status
* [ ] TODO: Eric to set up quarterly check-in for all core members to see if they're interested in remaining "active" or if they want to move to emeritus
* Remove emeritus folks from having access to various credentials (api tokens, twitter password, etc.)? This would require a change to the governance doc.

2020-11-11
* TODO: Think about bringing in JOSS to provide context around how we might best write papers

2020-11-03
* TODO: Check on Forrest Watters permissions for core
* [x] (FF) Outreachy would cost 6500 USD.
* Next steps: write abstract and vote on spending of funds.

2020-10-28
2020-10-21
* [ ] (Marius?) Python 2.7 migration
* ( ) [ ] make a hint
* ( ) [ ] make an announcement
* ( ) [ ] make the hint a lint

2020-10-07
* [ ] Make sure to add the NVBug info to the cudatoolkit package that conda-forge makes (if we make one)

2020-09-09
* [ ] (ED) Update governance docs with similar voting model as what got put into conda-tools (+3 with no -1 is a pass)
* [ ] (SC) Write jinja template to turn institutional partners yaml into a website https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/master/src/inst_partners.yaml
* [ ] (SC) Document what needs to be done to create an OVH account and get access

2020-08-26
**Docker hub**
* [ ] (JK) Check in on Azure build workers to see if they have the docker hub limitation.
* [ ] (JK) work with dockerhub to see if we can get OSS status
* [ ] Check in again at some point. We haven't heard back as of 2020-09-23

**OVH**
* [ ] Shout-out on twitter at some point. "Thanks forOVHCloud for providing a VM", etc. (maybe after we ship qt on windows with it?)

* [ ] Figure out how to communicate breaking changes to users. Likely should open up an issue immediately for futher discussion. Ping @kkraus, plus capture notes from further up in these meeting notes

* [ ] John K. will update the cuda toolkit feedstock on the git repo to note the NVBug link to the internal NVIDIA issue tracker
* [ ] Jonathan will update docs to note that some non-exhaustive list of packages (like cuda-toolkit, MKL, etc.)
* [ ] Jonathan will review this [PR](https://github.com/AnacondaRecipes/cudatoolkit-feedstock/pull/7)

* [ ] (Kale) schedule conda working group
* [ ] cfep-10 next steps: CJ to call a vote for feedback
* [ ] cfep-06 next steps: Ask staged recipes team to champion this CFEP and move it forward
* [ ] jakirkham & CJ-wright to sync on adding CUDA to the migration bot
* [ ] (Eric) Scheduling Anaconda <-> conda-forge sync on anaconda.org requirements gathering
* Will try and get this scheduled in the next month.
* [ ] (Anthony) Reach out to NumFocus to figure out legal ramifications of not including licenses in files.
* [ ] (Eric) check internally for funding levels for hotels & flying folks from the community in?
* [ ] (Eric) Figure out finances of conda-forge to support themselves?
* [ ] (jjhelmus) Open up CFEP for which python's we're going to support
* [ ] (jakirkham) write a blog post on CUDA stuff we discussed today
* [ ] (jakirkham) update docs on how to add CUDA support to feedstocks
* [ ] (jakirkham) will open an issue on conda-smithy to investigate Drone issues. (ping the aarch team)
* https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/954
* [ ] (ED) Who we are page? Some combination of a FAQ and a who is everyone. FAQ things like:
* who's the POC for CF <> Anaconda, CF <> NumFocus, CF <> Azure
* who's the POC for the various subteams?
* Informal information: roles, day jobs, bios, the whole nine yards, why you're here, etc.
* Public or internal? I don't really care either way. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other?
* opt-in to public bios
* software carpentry has a large number of instructors and has https://carpentries.org/instructors
* some concern about "yet another place to keep stuff up to date"
* [ ] (ED) document strategies for reproducible environments using conda-forge
* [ ] (UK) Static libraries stuff
* [ ] Add linting hints to builds to find them
* [x] Recommend how to package them -> CFEP-18
* [x] We should write docs saying we don't provide support and this is a bad idea. -> CFEP-18