# r/europe EU IV Tierlist Session 8

As time progressess, standards are rising, if you fail to keep up you drop a tier. Maybe a way to reclaim higher positions is narrowing the gap between the top and the bottom.

## Announcement

New contest, a D&D alignment chart, Pelinore style

So no just putting the flag behind an alignment.

This time not funded by me, but by Jarvin#5382 unless someone wants to add to the price pool. First place 1000 ducats, 2nd place 600, 3rd place 400.

Every participant not on the podium gets 25 ducats participation reward.

Send all entries to me (Discord Leeroy#0929) or Malvin Desu (Discord Jarvin#5382) if you only post them in the \#eu4-cmapaign channel I might miss them, but feel free to post there as well.

## A

### Commonwealth

Solidified its position as \#1 by attacking his ally and direct competition, Russia. Also shifted his trade deal from Russia to Venice, getting a bit more money, which puts them at an income of 290 at 1743 development. Their military made leaps, though. higher force limit than Russia now (344/336), even though no Quantity and currently smaller army, since both are way over force limit. But the Commonwealth army is of much higher quality so is undisputed number one, currently filling Defensive at 5/7. Behind in Diplo tech because he decided to join the genocider club, already wiped out the Goths and working on the Ponts and Saxons now. Low Absolutism but doesn't have to do Court and Country. Briefly found itself a subject of Hungary but Hungary was a good guy and released, and the PLC now has a 17 year old 5/4/6 ruler with +5% discipline, someone send an assassin or this spirals even further out of control!

## B

### Russia

Yep. Lost in one war which hurt the income but won in another. Trucebreak cost the prosperity, which is now almost back. Moved trade city to Kazan, income now at 310 with 1420 development, which also only makes it 4th rank Great Power. Force limit of 364/297 but the Quality is lacking. It has about 20% less discipline and one entire point of Morale less than the PLC with a smaller force limit, and can thus not be justified to be put into the same tier, as it would get trashed in a direct comparison. Ahead in all techs and Offensive currently 5/7, so the army should get a small upgrade soon, but not enough. Decent absolutism at 36, didn't do the full trick due to disaster problems and ticking truce. Good news for Russia though: It hasn't build a single regimental camp or barrack, so still some untapped potential.

### Hungary

Through a trade deal with Venice he got to reclaim the highest income spot, though Venice is running a deficit due to this, kind of the abuser. And I don't care if you say Hungary and venice are one country. The Income is 334, 146 of this are subsidies. Force limit of 251/249, pretty good, also of high quality, almost on par with that of the PLC. Defensive ideas 6/7 but mil tech not up on standard, though points for this rady. Diplotech still behind at 16, no excuse for this. Seems to increase his absolutism soon, as some provinces have a suspicious autonomy, current absolutism is 17. Also not stated the juicy French states yet. Added manufactories to his regimental camps which played a part in the income increase as well.

### Japan

Finished integrating his rich vassal, bringing development to 1189 and income to 234. For the first time is the sole Idea leader, with Quantity filled out. A good choice, as it put his Force limit to 217/243 with a lot of regimental camps still possible to build. 19/17/19 tech but could take diplo points from the Merchant Guilds. Army and generals are of high quality, and he has a decent Navy of 36 heavies at 4.2 morale, though currently morale mission reward. Now further expansion has to go into other players.

### Malwa

Where is your army my dude? 44/212 Force limit with almost full manpower. Decent quality and innovative coming up (3/7) and Defensive already has the most important ones, at 2/7. Nice treasury, almost full regimental camps, could sitll build some manufactories, playervassal, income of 244 at 1294 development make this still a strong country, despite the small army. Should look into tech though, 19/15/19. Truce with Vijayanagar has run out so get your army up.

## C

### Madyas
Hard to judge but I moved it here. The army is ok, nothing good or bad. 103/122 force limit, can easily afford going over it with the income of 231 at 1378 development. What made it score this high is the invincibibility and the ability to completely annihalte any sea based trade income, which can easily drag other countries down. Maritime ideas coming up (4/7), there can be no contest who is the ruler of the seas. The spice flows at Madyas' behest.

### Tuscany

Where is your manpower my dude? Lost the Hungarian daddy due to aggressive expansion issues, but that doesn't matter. One reason for this excessive AE is that Tuscany stepped into Swedens footsteps and failed to convert to Orthodoxy, currently enjoying 50% religious unity and still being Catholic in age of absolutism. Nicked its buddy Genoa which further boosted node control, now 90%, though it decreased value in the node. Merchant republics are valuable assets! Also the moment it doesn't have a 6/6/6 ruler anymore it can't keep up in tech and ideas, smh my head. 18/18/19 tech, 34 ideas with Quantity at 6/7, so the force limit of 164/172 will get a considerable boost soon. The army quality is still pretty good. But estates ready for farming.

### Sweden

Another one that picked Quantity, though not as far as Tuscany as it is only 2/7. Force limit is 138/139 with lots of regimental camps so Quantity will help out there, but Sweden has this nice and big mercenary limit from the event. Even has the income to support it, with 231 at 977 development. Due to another event it's currently suffering through a bad Rurikovich offspring at 4/1/0 with a -5% morale trait and threat of succession war. The army is still of good quality obviously and it has a rather large navy. Highest absolutism in the game at 44!

### Prussia

A Prussia hovering around 8th rank GP with 1066 development in the early 17th century? Time for coalition if you ask me, I got some experience. Even had some time to invest in his country so now has an income of 173 and a force limit of 134/136, but only half the manpower recovery of Sweden. Currently filling offensive ideas at 4/7 so once that's done the already impressive quality will increase. No absolutism though. Still in high demand of admin points due to conquest but at least 19/19/19 tech.

### Mamluks

This was close, but the Mamluks came out on top. Fixed their income quite a bit, 141 income at 1194 and once diplo tech is ahead again thats going up a bit as well. Force limit of 120/169 which was a lot of butter but now with Quality ideas coming (3/7) that's gonna change quite a bit. Currently enjoys a Morale event which skews the nubers a bit, but it's still going for 9 years. Also still in need for a lot of admin points for coring, but has estates ready.

### Mughals

The one it was so close with. Mughals lost quite a bit last session but still came out better than before. Higher income of 221 at 1022 development. lower force limit of 100/103 and due to ideas far fewer mercenaries. Caught up in ideas a lot, Defensive, Economic and Quality all 7/7, Innovative 4/7 and Offensive 2/7 so the quality is gonna further increase quite a lot soon again. Both Mamluks and Mughals still have a lot of buildings to build.

## D

### Songhai

Continues his tradition of being good in tech, with a nice and clean 19/19/19, but the Kongquest of Kongo left them very admin starved, currently no advisor though, and that while currently filling out Economic ideas (3/7). Kongo is full of dead countries, maybe release some for vassal integration! But Diplo points are currently in demand as well, as Songhai joined the genocider club and is currently working on some cultures. Income of 145 at 1046 development, also thanks to getting the trade from its player vassal Benin. Also currently filling out Quantity ideas at 3/7 so the force limit of 86/98 will soon increase as well. And due to the economic policies the quality will rise as well. Currently sits at impressive 57 professionalism! One Absolutism though.

### Korea
Fixed his merchant set up and moved the trade city to Beijing, which almost doubled the income to 134 at 653 development. I don't know how but he got the Potosí state to not go to his Colonial Nation in South America, which plays a part as well. Minor rebel problems, though one province is about to secede. 19/19/19 tech, Offensive ideas with 4/7 about to help the rather mediocre army. 89/91 force limit and a decent fleet, Alaska will soon give merchant and force limits as well, looking pretty good, time to build more buildings.
### Venice
The reason Hungary got his highest income spot and the other half of the country as they say. Even though they can't even ally due to the Hungarian aggressive expansion. Turned Orthodox for whatever fucking reason, Catholic and Reformed would have been better. Thanks to Global trade taking its time, he managed to snatch it right under Russias nose with a lot of help from others. Still, Venice had already shown before that it can make a lot of cash, and that it does. The Doge enjoys an income of 321 at 448 development, but currently runs a deficit due to paying too much in subsidies (214!). 19/18/19 tech plays its part as well, missing out on some sweet 20% trade efficiency. Another source for trade efficiency is currently coming up though, as Venice opted to pick Administrative ideas (1/7), going to give higher mercenary capabilities and 20% trade efficiency policy. Thanks to going Orthodox the army is actually quite ok, 74/77 force limit with decent quality. Also still the ruler of the Mediterranean with a 122/91 fleet. Time for some Universities my dude!
### Andalusia
Formed Andalusia right at the start, almost done with Castile now, giving nice control over the Sevilla node. It's being pirated and losing stuff to Genoa though, so not that great. Stil, it brought the income up to 95 at 654 development, and there is much coring still to do, very admin point starved, as the tech also demonstrates with 18/19/18 though enough points for next mil tech. Currently filling out Quality ideas at 3/7 so both the navy and the army will get a boost soon. 64/81 force limit of rather low quality but decent morale with no direct threats in sight. Maybe the peace time dividend can be invested into a few buildings, because there Andalusia is sorely lacking. Also 3(!) unused merchants!
### Norway
The country of perpetual fire and strife had to release all vassals after shrinking itself and the vassals growing. Switched to a merchant republic to increase the income, which is indeed quite good at 150 with 312 development. But the loss of estates further pronounced the tech situation, sporting 16/16/17, that's African level. The Colonies are nice and strong though. Finished Naval ideas so it might be a contender for at least European naval supremacy soon again, 17/134 naval force limit not *that* impressive though. And missing the crucial dip tech 19 which upgrades heavy ships. Army sort of negligible, 67/63 force limit of rather poor quality, only got morale going thanks to Defensive ideas. The Colonial nations combined have 91 regiments, however, so wrestling control of them is not quite easy.

## E
### Yemen
Almost finished Humanist ideas and did finish trade ideas, OK. One unused merchant though. And Gulf of Aden isn't the greatest node to collect in, he's relying on the benevolence of the mamluks to not put a merchant there. There is no denying it helped with the income, however, as it currently rests at 84 at 544 development. Tech all up to date and Quantity ideas coming at 3/7, so the main business of the Rassid idea groups will soon have more men to play with. Current force limit of 66/69 with pretty good quality and very good generals, even some professionalism stored (34%)! Currently constructing a bunch of buildings, though none of them are manufactories, which are still sorely lacking. Manufactories, regimental camps and Universities should be able to help out a lot.

### Lan Xang
Did not expect to see them here but thanks to sugardaddy Madyas Lan Xang claimed this spot over its next competition. Income of 90 at 62 development thanks to subsidies (25), force limit of 70/72 of very poor quality, since basically everything about this country sucks, it just has mass to fall back on. 17/17/18 tech, Defensive 7/7, Economic 6/7, Offensive 1/7, Innovative 0/7 which means still not all of the (trash) national ideas unlocked! Will he ever get use out of the institution spread?
### Hormuz
This is a much better run country, but currently operating at its limits. Exploration, Economy, Trade and Plutocraty all at 7/7 and Maritime coming up at 1/7, another navy power coming up it seems. 19/19/18 tech, 06 income at 277 development, quite large fleet for that, 106/97. Land army basically rebel clean up service at 23/39 with 4.6 morale and no discipline. There is a pretty cool ruler decision to pass, no reason not to. Infrastructure very good, maybe pass some money to your allies and help with theirs. Lost most of the Australian colony to Madyas and his assessment of the South American Colonial nation didn't account for rising standards, if the Commonwealth weren't that far ahead Hormuz surely would be **D**.
### Georgia
Turns out fratricide is good for the country. After a quick war it secured some provinces from the Purple Phoenix and now stands at 73 income with 358 development, also thanks to some subsidies (15). Finished trade ideas and is collecting everywhere he can, a peculiar trade strategy. Also finished Innovative ideas and Quality is coming up at 3/7, so the army will enjoy a serious quality boost soon, currently at 43/45 force limit of not so good quality. Got some money saved up and should invest that into more infrastructure. Tech 19/19/19 and a very nice 5/6/5 ruler with -20% advisor cost aged 43 in charge, so future looks good for Georgia.
## F
### Butua
The shiniest of the turds. Decided to not play decent shape Mutapa and instead released himself as 2 province vassal Butua for the more military focused National ideas. Secured help form Songhai and the Mamluks and has now almost taken over the former overlords lands. Is still living on government support though, which puts the income at 6 at 307 development, 15 of those subsidies. Also apparently left the coast and Zanzibar to be gobbled up by Mamluks and Madyas. Switching from moneybased to military based national ideas seems to have worked out though, as the army is quite decent, albeit being at 39/50 force limit. Infrastructure also not looking bad, Ideas and tech not optimal though, as it happens when you release yourself. Defensive, Espionage and Offensive 7/7, Economic 2/7. 16/18/19 tech but points enough to go ahead in diplo.
### Mann
Like father like Mann, it seems. Also African tech level at 17/17/16, currently in the process of stealing former French colonies and subjugating the Irish, Mann currently is at 52 income with 291 development, 20 of that subsidies though. I'm not sure Thunder taught him about DLC features, but Mann consistently had estates ready to farm, which might play a part in this low tech and idea level. Speaking of, Exploration, Trade and Expansion at 7/7, Quality at 2/7. Zealot Sinner Queen of 2/2/2 also not helping there. Army obviously weak, at 25/26 force limit of poor quality, actually needs help cleaning up rebels so quite useless. navy not really to speak of but with potential thanks to the National ideas. Also no real infrastructure to speak of, so much untapped potential. Call me if you need advise.
### Tibet
Poor Tibet. Had to give up a lot of land to become a vassal and is now fully reliant on its overlord. Income of 41 at 181 development, 24 of that subsidies. Winning a contest worked out quite nicely, however, and at least alleviated the infrastructure. Still, more could be done and the vassal development cost is going to be a bitch. OK tech of 18/19/19, Currently filling out Economic (1/7) and Quality (2/7) ideas, rest (Quantity, Innovative, Defensive) at 7/7. Actually managed to achieve perfectly balanced Karma of 0 (as all things should be ecks deee Xd), so the impressively small army of 18/33 is of quite decent quality.
### Benin
Will he ever escape the position of bottom bitch? Still a Songhai vassal, he shapes up to become useful. Actually caught up to Norways and Manx tech, at 17/15/16, which is more of a testament to the formers inaptitude. Exploration and Expansion 7/7, Economic 1/7, Trade 0/7, transferring all trade to Songhai for subsidies, which puts the income to 25 at 155 development, 9 of that subsidies. trash army at 14/15 force limit. But actually managed to establish a Colonial Nation in the far north, aptly named Wakanada. His army, *Native Kiling unit* lead by its brave but incapable leader, *Mosqito Spray*. Would probably love to have the Dharma feature where you can send colonists into your own provinces for a chance of development. I wish you good fortunes, maybe that unused merchant could bring you some.