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# Chat logs about cryptoeconomics meta-tx
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:17]
Yes this is another issue we have. Collisions
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:18]
I've heard two ways to solve this so far. Staking/slashing and POW with batched meta transactions
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:18]
Both are exciting and complicated :)
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:19]
How do you guys reach consensus of who submits?
Piotr, [20.09.18 16:21]
Cryptoeconomics :) but please take a look here https://github.com/ethereum-alarm-clock/ethereum-alarm-clock/blob/master/other/onchain_claiming_mechanism.pdf
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:21]
Hell yeah. Thanks man
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:23]
Looks like the TL;DR is you guys have a claiming system, a window of 'exclusive' execution, and then normal execution to clean up if needed. Very cool.
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:24]
(Claim includes a deposit.)
Sina Mahmoodi, [20.09.18 16:29]
[In reply to Piotr]
I wish I had seen this earlier! great work.
does claiming also happen on-chain?
Sina Mahmoodi, [20.09.18 16:30]
do you have estimates, how much a delayed execution would cost, over a normal tx made by user?
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 16:32]
This is a cool question. I'm guessing at some minimum there are gas costs of doing the ecrcover and verfiying. What else?
@pet3rpan, [20.09.18 16:33]
[In reply to Piotr]
That’s what a lot of us are working on. Check out the pinned agenda for our first meeting - let us know your thoughts
Piotr, [20.09.18 16:39]
[In reply to Austin Griffith]
Ours costs 450k gas per delayed execution.
Plus some reward for TimeNode.
George Spasov, [20.09.18 16:57]
@austingriffith do you think the TimeNode is like the Relayer node I told you about?
Piotr, [20.09.18 17:00]
[In reply to George Spasov]
Yes :)
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:00]
I think they are coming to a consensus on who gets to go, then one of them hits a contract to trigger some action. I don't think they are using "meta transactions" (yet!).
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:01]
Maybe @piotrkos can correct me where I'm wrong.
Piotr, [20.09.18 17:03]
Yes we are not. Meta transaction understood as singed message that contains all data.
But put meta tx in the smart contract storage and you have what we built.
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:04]
Ahhh okay cool!
Piotr, [20.09.18 17:06]
(We have many YouTube stuff that explains)
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:06]
That "smart contract storage" of the meta tx explains the 450k of gas too I'm guessing? I'm sure you guys are tackling a more complex problem than what we built with https://ethgrants.com but our entire executeSubscription() only takes 112k. However, we have common 30k collisions 😅😅😅
Piotr, [20.09.18 17:08]
[In reply to Austin Griffith]
Yes. 450k is because of that.
There are optimizations possible, I think it’s possible to shave 150k easily.
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:08]
Yeah it's not a big deal, I think making it work is the most important thing right now. You guys are leading the way too.
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:18]
Question - for this relayer pool, how will a new token launch onto this if it has no established market price. Could the token launch relayer nodes to the network with settings to pick up these tokens for their own set value so as to bootstrap the token until it has a market value that oracles can determine?
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:19]
Or would the token just launch independent relayer nodes until the token has a market value
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:19]
then later could add those relayer nodes to the pool
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:19]
Just wondering thoughts on this
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:21]
Yeah the way I'm imagining the relayers working is probably a highly costomizable incentive structure. At first it can hit APIs to gauge the value of a meta transaction reward, but perhaps you want to run transactions for your own token that has no value or you want to run them all for a specific app or something. It will need to allow for this kind of logic.
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:22]
So the relayer can either plug in an oracle or a static config file, or some combination of both to their node to determine which coins at what prices to pick up
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:23]
Yeah
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:24]
I don't think it's really an "oracle" because the relayer runs off-chain right?
Austin Griffith, [20.09.18 17:24]
It's just and api call
Kyle Bryant, [20.09.18 17:24]
Very true