# r/europe EU IV Tierlist Session 7

It is past 1600 and the World has shrunk a little, so now everyone is matched against each other so the bottom of the list truly is the bottom bitch. Tiers might be adjusted and you might drop since you don't hold up as well when competing with people from other continents.

## Announcement

Due to *popular demand* there will be another contest, funded by me (Leeroy/Russia) unless someone wants to add to the price pool. First place 2000 ducats, 2nd place 1250, 3rd place 750.

Every participant not on the podium gets 25 ducats participation reward

Comonwealth/Joanna added 2000 to the pool
Sweden/Andrex added 100 to the pool

Judge: not sure yet, either me or upvotes in a reddit thread.

Objective: Polandball comic about the current campaign. Doesn't have to be an entire recolletion of the events, can deal with just one event, just has to be topical to the currently running campaign.

Send all entries to me (Discord Leeroy#0929), if you only post them in the \#eu4-cmapaign channel I might miss them, but feel free to post there as well.

## A

### Commonwealth

Still number one, even surpassed Russia in development and has a strong economy of 223 income at 1435 development, also thanks to a trade deal with Russia which brings some nice subsidies. Finished innovative ideas and has thus an incredibly powerful army with a force limit of 208, though a stress test has shown that it might run out of steam fast due to the manpower cap and recovery. Manufactories in almost every province and already got some regimental camps, with more on the way so the Commonwealth will soon need new provinces to invest into.

### Russia

Went a slightly different route with the ideas and unbelievably got surpassed in development by its latest enemy, the Polish Commonwealth. For now they have a trade agreement going though, which frees up a Russian merchant. Global trade only seems to be a formality at this point, since despite the current -75% price on grain the Novgorod node still almost has twice the value than the next biggest, and almost entirely from Russian sources! The big treasury that was stored had been invested into about 100 manufactories, and it shows. Together with Quantity ideas finished for the goods produced policy, Russia has an income of 325 at 1424 dev. No tradenode produces as much value as Siberia, not even Nippon or Genoa. The army doesn't have to hide either, though it surely is more mass than quality. Russia currently employs 297/285 regiments and can easily go further above the force limit. Quality is ok and the stresstest has shown it can keep going for a looooong time. 3000 manpower recovery each month and a Mercenary limit of 141, some even think the Russian army might be stronger than the Polish-Lithuanian one.

## B

### Japan

The Asian "Superpower". Nested safely on his island with no more threats of invasion from South-East-Asia, Japan had some time to invest in his country. That coupled with the partitions of Ming where he got a good share brought him to this position. Decent income of 120 at 895 dev and he might move some trade around and still has a vassal to integrate. Force limit of 112/118 can't keep up with some other countries, but thanks to finishing innovative ideas those troops pack a punch. The manpower and mercenary pool are certainly of concern for prolonged wars, but Japan can still build a lot of regimental camps. Japan also still enjoys the luxury of a navy, with no major change there. Also manufactories almost everywhere.

### Sweden

Closest ally was sleeping so Sweden had a change of plans. Gave up a lot of land in Northern Germany for peace and money and instead expanded into the Netherlands, getting better Channel control. Now it has a very nice income of 115 at 755 dev and autonomy and devastation are still ticking down as well as cores being worked on. Invested the money into a few manufactories instead of forts, though he might want to delete some of those forts to make room for manufactories. Army is of high quality, innovative ideas coming their way (3/7), the manpowerpool (67k) is a bit troublesome though but with the Age of Absolutism coming soon and the Swedish mercenary force it's not a big deal. Force limit 83/108 thanks to a lot of regimental camps, Also upgraded its navy with a little help, let's see if Norway is still worth its diplo slot.

### Tuscany

Mr. Big gainz. Further expanded into Iberia and started expansion into France, now has strong control of the valuable Genoa trade node, giving a nice income of 113 at 764 development. Manufactories built almost everywhere and Regimental camps everywhere except in 2 provinces. This leads to a decent force limit of 130/123 with decent quality, only morale is lacking, but innovative ideas have been finished so they deal a lot of casualties. Is still catholic and currently excommunicated, there is a small trick that can get rid of this.

### Hungary

Oof, surpassed by its prodigy. With the Age of Absolutism coming soon Hungary decided to get rid of the Black Army earlier instead of potentially wasting some money, and the military quality took a dip with it. As compensation, Hungary killed its other pupil, Bavaria. Also finished integrating Bulgaria which added some nice states at the cost of being behind in diplo tech (16/14/16), Hungary might still have to work out the trade set up but 122 income at 1059 dev is ok, even though some of it are Venetian bribes. Also despite the loss of the Black Army, the Hungarian army quality is still pretty good, Inovative ideas at 3/7, morale a bit low, nice force limit of 93/167, can't afford it though. Favoured regimental camps over manufactories. Nobility estate is a disaster (0 loyalty, 84% influence)

### Malwa

Dropped a bit after facing its first expensive wars. Several wars, one of them against multiple opponents, brought down the manpower to 0, so he had to hire a lot of mercenaries. This came at the cost of almost 6000 debt, but at least he survived, *totally on his own*, and now stands to gain some sweet Indian land from the dying Vijayanagar. Once peace comes, the debt shouldn't be too much of a problem, as Malwa has a nice income of 132 at 936 dev. Army quality is ok, no new ideas yet though, as the next idea group is innovative but Malwa expanded by about 300 dev, that's a lot of coring. This led to the current tech being a bit behind, at 14/15/16. Also gained a player vassal, Tibet, not sure how useful. Can still build some manufactories but regimental camp is nicely blue, but also with some possibilities left.

### Mughals

Slightly behind the Indian power come the Mughals, who recovered nicely from the war and got even more provinces for free. Currently filling out 2 military idea groups so tech is lagging a bit behind, but once caught up and Quality finished the army should fare much better. Force limit of 100/101 with no Offensive or Quantity ideas and only one regimental camp means there is a lot of untapped potential. Built a few more manufactories and the income is quite formidable now, 145 at 1227 development. Golden era expired but *still* 6.4 morale.

### Madyas

A tricky country, as the Republic is unassailable due to the combination of its geography and naval build, but it's relevance on land is a bit limited due to the force limit (84/88). Still, the land army is holding up and there certainly are worse ones, once Innovative ideas are finished (6/7) they'll gain a boost again. Currently in the process of kicking Vijayanagar out of the Indonesia region, moved the trade city into the previously pirated Malacca node and got a trade deal with Lan Xang, bringing the income to 143 at 913 development. Can still build a lot of manufactories even but is currently waiting for another ruler to be elected due to the obsessive perfectionist trait. Then has to decide whether to build regimental camps or docks and shipyards. Also still has a vassal to integrate in China.

## C

### Prussia

Prussia got quite a few provinces for free in Germany, which immensely helped and from there he expanded further westward. Force limit only 83/83 but probably the highest Quality in the world with 3 or more morale points than some other countries, and not even innovative ideas finished. But what is this? No Prussian Monarchy? Smh my head. Economy looking good at least with an income of 94 at 738 development, manufactories in almost all possible provinces but a lot of provinces don't have a free building slot, so he needs to develop those or maybe delete some buildings. Regimental camps might be preferable over manufactories though. Also still has to fully state a lot of the newly acuqired provinces but admin points are in high demand right now.

### Mamluks

Big boy in Africa, mediocre elsewhere. Currently only has a small army despite the decent force limit of 48/128, probably to save money. Morale is good but no Offensive or Quality ideas makes for buttery troops. Economic ideas coming along at 3/7 so hopefully his unimpressive income of 70 at 1040 development will rise soon with new buildings. Converting a gold mine could also help. Once the newly acquired African provinces have lower autonomy it should also get better. Admin points in demand on all fronts now but with a god like 6/4/6 ruler that shouldn't take too long thankfully.

### France

Not sure which half was worse, the human controlled first half which saw the loss of the Provencale coast and Burgundian farmlands, or the Ai controlled second half which had France get occupied twice and lose a lot of armies since it thought it was a good idea to join the Catholic side and defend Castile, which it previously had taken a chunk out of as well. Income of 74 at 829 development is neither good nor bad. French army quality is ok, once Quality ideas (3/7) are finished it should be quite good, manpower is a bit low still. Debt of 1.4k nothing too bad. Sold African provinces but is soon getting another colonial nation, which helps with the force limit (92/100).

### Songhai

Biggest change: No more Espionage ideas, F. Has been replaced with Quality ideas, which are almost filled at 6/7. Next idea is currently Maritime at 0/7, not sure that stays but we will see. Innovative (5/7) had to be put on hold since Songhai participated in the war against the Kangz and took huge chunks out of Kongo. Has no state limit for that though until next adm tech but it still made for some gains. Also built a few manufactories and now has an income of 90 at 787 development and a force limit of 79/79, good morale but no discipline yet. Other big change: Got Benin as a vassal now.

## D

### Morocco

Got all the provinces to form Andalusia but had connection issues towards the end so still is Morocco. Also in the starving for admin points club, as a lot of coring and stating is yet to be done. Completed another Colonial Nation which will soon add to the force limit, currently 51/62 and Naval FL 49/92. Quality ideas at 2/7 so will improve both once done. Fixed its merchant set up and now has a much better income of 72 at 574 development, with no prosperity and basically no buildings, so still much room for improvement.

### Korea

Merchant set up is a bit weird, collecting everywhere and one free merchant, bringing nothing from the colonies, but it still makes for a decent income of 71 at 611 development. Wrestled the colonies from Castile and Kongo in South America and now waits for another colony to finish, so *Placeholder* should yield profits soon as well. Lacking the force march admin tech but 4 ideas completely filled out, with Economic being the latest addition, so he should build some buildings soon, as that's an area where Korea is lacking. Could build some very profitable manufactories right now. Army (71/74)and navy (58/97)are both ok, nothing impressive but not bad. Ming is now basically gone so time to focus on inner affairs.

### Norway
Was absent, which might have saved him. Still super unstable country, with internal conflicts disaster currently active and 2 rebel groups close to enforcing demands. Income went a bit up again but only because devastation went down in Sweden, not in Norway. Still, 63 at 358 development with occupied provinces, so once he gets the stability sorted out he could make some decent money. Tight grip on Northern America, lost most of his navy, army back to 50/56 though of shit quality. Tech of 14/13/15, AI further filled out the ideas which now are Economic 7/7, trade 5/7, Defensive 4/7 and Offensive 0/7, which will probably be changed. At least the AI got rid of the oppressive debt of 6k (with a bankruptcy) and estates are ready for farming.

### Yemen

The Kang-Killer. Currently income of 67 at 475 development despite losing the coffee modifier, though 7 are from war reparations and 5 form subsidies. Unlocked all national ideas, very nice, however the idea choices are a bit odd. Ai had picked Humanist ideas and the player further filled them out (3/7) instead of deleting them, giving Humanist Oman flashbacks. Another idea choice is Trade (4/7), I thought that was Hormuz' business. Defensive and Offensive are ok though, and thanks to a 20% Morale event Yemen currently has the highest Morale in the game at 7.34, bringing it into comfortable stackwipe territory. Thanks to Africa and Arabia being such shitholes he has a rather small force limit though (35/54). Also neither Manufactories nor Regimental camps, someone tell him about the Feudal Theocracy Government actions. As autonomy is still ticking down in Africa his sutation will improve with time, though, and he caught up in tech, being 16/16/16. Now the way for further conquest lies open and Yemen could shape up to be on equal terms with the Mamluks.

### Venice

Another weid one. Impressive income of 94 at 390 development, buying his independence from his neighbours. Very enviable ruler, 5/5/6, aged 53, elections this year, building cost reduction and increased morale traits, the sun truly shines on Venice. Quantity ideas inflate the army a bit, with it being the only military idea group the 50/69 force limit makes for a lot of butter. But he got friends for that, his purpose seems to be money and navy, and what a navy that is: 123/83 force limit and Maritime ideas coming up (0/7). 4.25 Morale though currently enjoying 20% morale event. Truly the ruler of the Mediterranean sea and at least of the riches of the western Mediterranean. Manufactories almost everywhere, temples everywhere, odd choice, has to decide whether to build regimental camps or docks in the coastal provinces, I think the latter would be better. A bit behind in admin tech (14) but once 17 comes the average dev in Italy will probably rise even higher than it is.

## E

### Mutapa

The mostly unaffected Kang, soon with a change of leadership. Income of 45 at 372 development, about 1.1k debt, 8 inflation, OK tech at 14/15/16, Ai sadly started filling Exploration past the colonist so ideas now are explo 5/7, Economic 7/7, Offensive 2/7. Army is meh with relatively low morale and force limit of 26/46, kind of the reason the Kangz lost in the first place (and a bit of lack of commitment and coordination). Army Professionalism now at 55%!

### Oirat

Poor Oirat, keeps improving his country every session but somehow falls a tier every time. Finally no longer a horde and economy is starting to be better with the autonomy dropping, currently income of 32 at 656 development. Has actually built quite a few manufactories and more currently in production, so that's good. Tech and idea still behind with 12/14/15 and Economic 7/7, Defensive 2/7 and Quality 0/7. Force limit 26/50, no discipline and ok morale, not the strongest army but invading this land is a bitch. Ming basically completely divided up now so time to focus on internal affairs. Merchant set up not optimal but maybe he is waiting for something *nudge nudge wink wink*

### Lan Xang

Still not fully recovered, though expanded quite a bit into Ming and Ayutthaya and found a friend in Madyas again, who is helping with the finances, currently income of 40 at 585 dev, 10 of that subsidies, 12 inflation, still a bit of devastation and high autonomy so Lan Xang needs more peace time. Of course no significant infrastructure. Tech a bit behind as well with 13/14/15, changed idea groups a bit and now has Defensive 7/7, Economic 4/7 and Offensive 0/7, so not even unlocking all of the admittely trash national ideas. Morale ok, force limit 36/56, no navy to speak of, but 0 manpower and needing 15k to reinforce, with rebels everywhere, oof. Should probably change merchant a bit.

### Hormuz

This is what you get when you ask for **B Tier**. But the country is actually not shit, decent tech with 15/15/16, Exploration, Economic and Trade ideas 7/7 and Plutocratic ideas 1/7, income of 55 with 260 development, force limit 28/36 though land army is not Hormuz' job. Navy 82/97 with 3.67 morale, not bad. Australian colony sadly too small to give a merchant or force limit, but the newly acquired South American one is giving both, so there is still some room, no peaking yet.

### Genoa

Didn't get new coastal provinces, didn't really get anything, will it suffer the same fate as Bavaria soon? Would be a shame, as the country is run fine. 55 income at 262 development, Tech 13/16/16 so missing one idea group, ideas still Plutocratic/Trade/Defensive 7/7, didn't delete one. Where the sister Republic Venice got a nice ruler, Genoa got a bit of a bummer with increased construction cost. But there is already a lot of infrastructure so maybe can save money for the next ruler. Wait... It did get a Vassal in America, a Colonial Nation and some Islands in the Atlantic! Maybe Exploration next? Or Naval? Or Maritime? Looks like Genoa found a purpose after all. Then Protestant religion might be worth something.

### Georgia

Income of 27 at 287 development since Mother Russia forgot to renew subsidies. Barely made it into this tier, tech 14/14/16 is ok, Defensive and Economic ideas 7/7 but the other 2 idea choices hmmm, trade 3/7 and Innovative 4/7, might I suggest changing one of them? *nudge nudge wink wink*. Land army is missing a bit of a punch with no discipline, average morale and 30/32 force limit. At least built some manufactories and a small navy.

## F

### Ireland

The shiniest of the turds! After Munster threw the towel, Thomond was free to unite Ireland, finally, and switched to the superior Irish ideas. Exploration and Expansion 7/7, but lost the colonial nations to the Netherlands, which also hurt the income. Defensive 4/7 and Economic 0/7 so not all national Ideas unlocked yet. Income of 21 at 263 development, with some subsidies, but the first manufactories are coming so not all is lost. Army has decent morale but with a 20/24 force limit it's basically there to clean up rebels.

### Mann

Avoided being annexed by AI, but still had to suffer through an AI overlord. Income of 16 at 144 development, Exploration, Expansion and Trade all 7/7, unlocking the Manx national ideas, tech a bit behind though still, with 12/14/15. Army and Navy not worth commenting on. Established himself in Mexico and now seems to want to go into Louisiana as well as South America.

### Byzantium

I mean, I guess better army than the other F tiers so far, with 14/25 force limit, average quality thanks to Defensive, Quantity and Economic 7/7 unlocking all national ideas and 13/16/16 tech. Economy went down the shitter, though, with a meagre income of 10 at 107 dev. Poor Romans.

### Tibet

Gave up a lot of land to Mughals and Malwa for survival and became a Malvi vassal. Shitty income of 10 at 167 development now. Army currently at 16/16 force limit with avergae quality, though with the ideas coming up it might be useful vassal. Defensive 7/7, Innovative 4/7, Quantity 5/7, tech 14/16/16, let's see what he chooses next. Poor Tibet. At least the Dalai Lama convinced the country to be led by the monks, transforming the country into a Theocracy.

### Benin

No longer the worst! But more because others deteriorated. Got some provinces from Kongo, enlarged Wakanda, became a vassal of Songhai, income of 17.5 at 137 development now, decent for him. Tech however still a disaster at 11/12/13. Ideas are Exploration and Expansion still 7/7 and now trade 1/7. Quite large treasury though and oculd build a few buildings.

### Ayutthaya

By request still listed. Betrayed on all fronts he chose to fight, and gave some enemies a good fight, bringing them down with him. But it's now split in 3, bankrupt and the next Bankruptcy is coming up. Also still no printing press, 12/13/14 tech, admin ideas 4/7, Defensive 1/7 and Quality 7/7. The White Elephant will soon only be a distant memory. But so will Vijayanagar.