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## October 1, 2024 (9:00AM PDT / 4PM UTC)
### Attendees
- Lars Grüter
- Stéfan van der Walt
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Pamphile Roy
- Sanket Verma
- Guillaume Lemaitre
- Madicken Munk
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Inessa Pawson
- Paul Ivanov
### Agenda
- [SPEC 12: Formatting Mathematical Expressions](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/326) ready to merge as draft
- Discussing with maintainers from ruff and black
- Linting (detecting something is not right) vs Formatting (fixing error automatically)
- Please go ahead and merge as draft
- Status check on PRs:
- [SPEC 10: Changelog](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/321)
No current update; but planning to keep on working.
- [SPEC 13: Targets and naming](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/324)
Don't want to fix things that may be moving targets in the Python ecosystem.
Let's hold off on developing SPEC now until we have better consensus.
May consider closing SPEC?
- Endorsements
- [SPECS 6, 7, 8](https://scientific-python.org/specs/) are ready for core project endorsement
- sklearn update:
- SPEC 7 (RNG): some bigger concerns they need to address; no problem with the SPEC itself, which suggests renaming and gives us an opportunity to change behavior; will be having smaller meetings soon where, hopefully, we can converge on path forward; not a very high priority right now
- Discussion regarding scikit-learn specific issue with randomness ambiguity: https://github.com/scikit-learn/enhancement_proposals/pull/88
- SPEC 1 (lazy loading): some discussion on sklearn
- Discussion going on in this new PR: https://github.com/scikit-learn/scikit-learn/pull/29793
- skimage:
- endorsed (and following) SPECs 6, 7, and 8; only unendorsed SPECs are the ones that are not ready for consideration
- good exercise to write up permissions, find unused tokens, people with permissions they shouldn't have, etc.
- looking into using `teams` action for setting up permissions on gh
- ipython: Matthias will take a look
- TODO: Improve `teams` action to work with user IDs, not usernames which can be changed (see issue 13).
- Badges now available
- Example: [![SPEC 6 — Keys to the Castle](https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC-6-green?labelColor=%23004811&color=%235CA038)](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0006/) (see https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0006/#badges)
- New members to serve on SPEC committee
- [Member list](https://scientific-python.org/specs/steering-committee/)
- Welcome Guillaume and Matt!
- General discussion
- Tools update: bring on [batchPR](https://github.com/astrofrog/batchpr/issues/33)?
> The aim of this package is to provide an easy way to do automated issues or pull requests to a selection of repositories and make specific changes to them.
- Lars: https://tools.scientific-python.org/ --> should we specify some other minimum requirements, such as testing, e.g.
- SPEC9: governance, merged in draft stage
- Please review SPEC9, and make suggestions
- Within Scientific Python, there can be a security manager role
- NumPy triage meeting tomorrow; on agenda, endorse SPEC-1
## September 3, 2024 (9:00AM PDT)
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Lars Grüter
- Juanita Gomez
- Mridul Seth
- Pamphile Roy
- Stéfan van der Walt
### Agenda
- Membership
- [Guillaume Lemaitre as new member](https://discuss.scientific-python.org/t/suggestion-for-new-committee-member/1401/5)
- [Old members stepping down](https://discuss.scientific-python.org/t/spec-committee-active-membership/1402/14)
- We agreeded to go ahead and add Guillaume, move non-active or per members request to emeritus status, update to reflect updated process.
- https://scientific-python.org/specs/steering-committee/#how-do-you-add-a-member
- https://scientific-python.org/specs/steering-committee/#how-do-you-remove-a-member
- Update SPEC purpose and process to explain how to update existing SPEC [name=@stefanv]
- Small adjustment to purpose and process to [move SPECs from Draft to Published](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/339)
- SPEC statuses
- Ready for endorsement (move from draft -> published):
- SPEC6: Keys to the Castle
- SPEC7: Seeding pseudo-random number generation
- SPEC8: Securing the release process
- Actively being worked on:
- [SPEC2: API Dispatch](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/334)
- [SPEC12: Formating mathematical expressions](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/326) — please take a look, close to ready
- Needs work:
- SPEC3: Accessibility
- ping Tania [name=@stefanv]
- SPEC9: governance
- SPEC10: changelog and release documentation
- Will probably be retired:
- SPEC13: Recommended targets and naming conventions
- get everything discussed in and then publicize (tweet)
- finish comments PR [name=@stefanv]
- https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/591
- blog post for developer summit
- Write collaboratively, between Matt Feickert, Stéfan, Pamphile, Brigitta, anyone else who wants to help!
- Try to follow the purpose and process for starting new SPECS
- Keep SPECs short and crisp
- Merge early, continue editing
## July 2, 2024 (9:00AM PDT)
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Juanita Gomez
- Sanket Verma
- Stéfan van der Walt
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Lars Grüter
- Brigitta Sipőcz
### Agenda
* Welcome
* using read.ai
* Membership
* Emeritus status
* https://scientific-python.org/specs/steering-committee/
* New members
* Guillaume Lemaitre
* PRs
* https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pulls
* Governance (Jarrod)
* 7, 8, and 9 likely merged drafts
* badges PR
* https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/591
## May 7, 2024 (9:00AM PDT)
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Juanita Gomez
- Sanket Verma
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Lars Grüter
- Kristen Thyng
- Mridul Seth
- Stéfan
- Pamphile Roy
### Agenda
* Welcome
* Developer Summit
* https://scientific-python.org/summits/developer/2024
* https://tools.scientific-python.org
* https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024
* https://github.com/orgs/scientific-python/projects/8
* https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024/issues
* [SPEC: API observability](https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024/issues/1)
* there was a scipy project ~10 years ago, it may be worth trying to dig up the details. Main concerns:
* how to ask consent -> consent broker
* https://github.com/takluyver
* https://github.com/Carreau
* [SPEC-?: Parallel API](https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024/issues/13)
- Collecting various approaches would be good to do before the summit
- Also see Thomas Fan's blog post, linked in the issue
- S wrote a CZI proposal to work on this that was not funded; happy to share
* [SPEC-7: Seeding pseudo-random number generation](https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024/issues/11)
- General problem: libraries that invest early in figuring out an API, and have it implemented, will be less likely to want to move
- However, still valuable to have general guidance for other libraries in the ecosystem, and that library may even endorse it
- Writing up a SPEC also makes the arguments clear, which is helpful for future conversation
* [SPEC-8: Supply-Chain Security](https://github.com/scientific-python/summit-2024/issues/9)
- https://openssf.org/
- Establishing community trust (e.g., Debian)
## April 2, 2024 (9:00AM PDT)
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Juanita Gomez
- Madicken Munk
- Sanket Verma
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Lars Grüter
### Agenda
* Welcome
* Wasn't it Stefan's birthday ?
* Review agenda / anything to add?
* Main focus today
* https://scientific-python.org/summits/developer/2024
* Make the dates more visible.
* https://tools.scientific-python.org
* SPEC meta stuff
* [Core projects](https://scientific-python.org/specs/core-projects/)
* Update on sympy
* [SPEC Badges/GH Topics](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/240)
* [WIP PR](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/305)
* How does it look?
* Jarrod needs to implement shortcode ([tabs refactored](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/pull/579))
* SPECs
* [SPEC 2 — API Dispatch](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0002/)
* [WIP PR](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/307)
* [SPEC 4 — Using and Creating Nightly Wheels](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0004/)
* pyarrow added
* Jarrod will start inviting build tools (cython, pythran, etc.), dependencies (pillow, etc.), common tools, core packages for important subdomains
* [SPEC 8 — Parallel terminology](https://discuss.scientific-python.org/t/terminology-for-parameters-controlling-parallel-computation/1016)
* SPEC website updates
* [v0.13](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/releases/tag/v0.13), [v0.14](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/releases/tag/v0.14), [v0.15](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/releases/tag/v0.15), [v0.16](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/releases/tag/v0.16)
* s-p-org PRs [509](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/590), [599](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/599), [601](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/601)
* specs PRS [304](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/304), [306](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/306), [309](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/309)
* [WIP discussion](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/591)
* Planning discussion
* https://scientific-python.org/summits/developer/2024
* https://tools.scientific-python.org
* repo review (GH agnostic?)?
* [meeks](https://github.com/meeseeksBox/MeeseeksDev) resurrection
* SPECs
* best community practices
* parallel terminology
* repo review (GH agnostic?)
* declarative Sphinx config?
* https://sphinx-pyproject.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
* security best practices
* accessibility
## March 5, 2024 (9:00AM PDT)
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Stefan van der Walt
- Sanket Verma
- Ross Barnowski
- Lars Grüter
- Kristen Thyng
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Mridul Seth
- Pey Lian Lim
### Agenda
* Welcome
* Review agenda / anything to add?
* SPEC meta stuff
* [Core projects](https://scientific-python.org/specs/core-projects/)
* invite [SymPy](https://discuss.scientific-python.org/t/spec-0-include-sympy/975/2), ...
* [x] Matthias will DM Aaron Meurer to gage interest and wether to move forward
* [ ] Matthias will replay Aaron thoughts and reply.
* [SPEC Badges/GH Topics](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/240)
* for badges see [internal link](https://hackmd.io/WPTkRnNtSOeF7OhUTRHDwA?both#Badges) and [![SPEC 1 — Lazy Loading of Submodules and Functions](https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC-1-blue)](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0001/) and [![](https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC_0-Compliant-green?labelColor=%23004811&color=%235CA038)](https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC_0-Compliant-green?labelColor=%23004811&color=%235CA038)
* Consider some additional language to emphasize that endorsing is not compelling projects to do anything
* Concern with badges: badges as "award"
* Bear in mind: badges would also be voluntary
* One can make badges that refer to multiple specs at onece: [![Scientific Python Ecosystem Coordination](https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC-1,3,5-blue)](https://scientific-python.org/specs/)
* [name=jarrodmillman] - Will open PR related to badges, review over course of week
* for topics see [spec-1](https://github.com/topics/spec-1), [spec-2](https://github.com/topics/spec-2), [spec-4](https://github.com/topics/spec-4)
* limitations e.g. [only 20](https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/classifying-your-repository-with-topics)
* Discussion: is the topics section the right place for this?
* promote in ecosystem adoption section (e.g., add text [here](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/blob/main/spec-0000/index.md#ecosystem-adoption))?
* SPECs
* [SPEC 2 — API Dispatch](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0002/)
- [ ] [Mridul/Jarrod to redraft based on NX](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/229#issuecomment-1978045914)
- Remove old text and authors
- [NetworkX Dispatch Meeting notes](https://hackmd.io/@networkx-dispatching/meeting)
- [Backends](https://networkx.org/documentation/stable/reference/utils.html#backends)
- NXEP coming
- potential dispatching summit
* [SPEC 4 — Using and Creating Nightly Wheels](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0004/)
* requested 2 TB (currently using 11.8GB / 40 GB -- 6.4GB openblas and 1.6GB pandas)
* current: awkward, awkward-cpp, contourpy, dipy, h5py, ipython, matplotlib, networkx, numpy, pandas, scikit-image, scikit-learn, scipy, scipy-openblas32, scipy-openblas64, shapely, statsmodels, sunpy, tables, xarray
* pending: [pyarrow](https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/40216)
* potential:
- build tools (cython, pythran, etc.), dependencies (pillow, etc.), common tools, core packages for important subdomains
- pure python (pytest, sphinx, etc.)
- Matthias: even pure python, wheels are usefull for pip install --no-binary that is used in some project to make sure that all wheels are working on all platforms.
- link to existing collections (e.g., astropy) and maybe also publish just the latest version
- Matthias: we can also just have a cron that pull from pytest repo and reupload to the scientific-Python one.
* [SPEC 7 — Seeding PRNGs](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/180)
* [SPEC 8 — Parallel terminology](https://discuss.scientific-python.org/t/terminology-for-parameters-controlling-parallel-computation/1016)
- njobs, num_workers, workers, etc.
- 3 use cases
- nondiscriminant
- cpus
- threads
* SPEC website updates
- [Use PST styling for spec meta styling](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/pull/576) see [example](https://deploy-preview-576--scientific-python-org.netlify.app/specs/spec-0002/)
* What to do for core projects links
* Project Gallery
* one toml file
* [new format example](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-hugo-theme/blob/main/doc/content/about/theme-team.toml)
* Project pages
* [current source](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/scientific-python/specs/main/core-projects/ipython.md) and
* [current look](https://scientific-python.org/specs/core-projects/ipython/) and the [work in progress](https://deploy-preview-576--scientific-python-org.netlify.app/specs/core-projects/ipython/)
* Remove history section or fix links?
* Where should discussions happen?
- make [issue template](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/tree/main/.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE)
- make [PR template](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/blob/main/.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md)
- [Discourse commments](https://github.com/scientific-python/blog.scientific-python.org/pull/177) see [example](https://blog.scientific-python.org/numpy/numpy-rng/)
* Miscellaneous
* https://scientific-python.org/summits/developer/2024 see [preview](https://deploy-preview-584--scientific-python-org.netlify.app/summits/developer/2024/)
* https://tools.scientific-python.org see [preview](https://deploy-preview-36--tools-scientific-python-org.netlify.app/)
* https://fosstodon.org/@scientific_python
## February 6 9:00AM PDT
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Madicken Munk
- Juanita Gomez
- Kristen Thyng
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Stéfan van der Walt
- Sanket Verma
- Mridul Seth
- Pey Lian Lim
- Matthias Bussonnier
### Agenda
* Updates on existing SPECs
* SPEC0
* What does 2 year support mean for endorsers and adopters
* https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/297
* SPEC 4 activities
* New SPECs ready for final comments / merging
* [SPEC6](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/168): Keys to the castle
* [SPEC7](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/180): Random API
* S: Please merge after final review :pray:
* [Update SP group membership / teams via PR](https://github.com/scientific-python/teams)
* [sync-teams-action](https://github.com/scientific-python/sync-teams-action)
* [Tools](https://scientific-python.org/tools)
* Scientific Python developer summit
* 3-7 June 2024, eScience Institute, Seattle
* Summit topics
* Continued sparse work (WG is still active after previous summit)
* Community management SPECs
* Storage formats
* Parallel APIs
* Open discussion
* SPEC 4 storage
* Self-hosted Anaconda server? (on views, e.g.)
## October 3rd 9:00AM PDT
**Topic:** SPECs
### Attendees
- Jarrod Millman
- Madicken Munk
- Juanita Gomez
- Pamphile Roy
- Matthias Bussonnier
- Lars Grüter
- Kristen Thyng
- Brigitta Sipőcz
- Stéfan van der Walt
### Relevant Links
- [Scientific Python - Scientific Python Ecosystem Coordination](https://scientific-python.org/specs/)
- [GitHub - scientific-python/specs: Scientific Python Ecosystem Coordination (SPEC) documents](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs)
### Agenda
1. Updates
- [spec-0 and spec-4 endorsements by xarray](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/270)
- [endorse spec 4 by IPython](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/268)
- [add MNE to list of SPEC001 adopters](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/271)
- [Generate gallery from GH teams](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/276)
2. Teams
- [How do you add a member?](https://deploy-preview-276--scientific-python-specs.netlify.app/specs/steering-committee/#how-do-you-add-a-member)
- make a PR to https://github.com/scientific-python/teams
- make a PR to https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python.org/ after running `make teams`
- add them to https://discuss.scientific-python.org/g/spec-steering-committee
- this requires that they have accounts on both GitHub and discuss.scientific-python.org.
- Investigate [Invite discourse users to a group](https://meta.discourse.org/t/invite-users-to-a-group/15544)
3. Pending PRs
- [SPEC-0000: Soften explicit drop schedule](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/273)
- [Clarify schedule is guideline](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/272)
- Having github topics for specs ?
4. Affiliated projects / Domain stacks / Cards / Badges / etc.
- [Question: Is there any core library missing?](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/241)
- [Domain stacks](https://scientific-python.org/summits/domain-stacks/)
- [Add badges](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/240)
5. Theme
- [Dark theme](https://theme.scientific-python.org/)
- [Project pages](https://scientific-python.org/specs/core-projects/ipython/)
- other issues
- reviewers / feature requests
6. CZI EEOS 6
- [LOI due October 17](https://chanzuckerberg.com/rfa/essential-open-source-software-for-science/)
Next meeting: Notes from NumFOCUS Summit: https://hackmd.io/32sQNc0STMCEHCF6q3P_4g
# September 5, 2023
**In attendance:** Jarrod Millman, Brigitta Sipőcz, Ralf Gommers, Mridul Seth, Stéfan van der Walt, Juanita Gomez, Inessa Pawson, Sanket Verma, Madicken Munk
- Review / approve / merge open PRs
- [#266 — Stop dependabot from updating requirements](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/266)
- [#264 — SPEC4 language improvements](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/264)
- Increasing project outreach: matplotlib
- Jarrod (?) will reach out to Kyle Sunden / attend community meeting
- NF Project Summit 2023 - Juanita, Brigitta, Sanket, Madicken, and Inessa are attending. Maybe, they could host a break-out session about new SPECS.
- Visualization
- Napari
- What could SPECs in that space look like?
- Element of other SPECs? Accessibility / colorblind-friendliness, e.g.
- [Altair](https://altair-viz.github.io/gallery/index.html), [Grave](https://github.com/networkx/grave)
- Madicken / Matt McCormick: thinking about (pre- the formation of Scientific Python) a standardized API for viz libraries
# August 1, 2023
Previous meeting notes available [here](https://github.com/scientific-python/scientific-python-archive). Please feel free to add topics for discussion and news items below.
**In attendance:** Jarrod Millman, Brigitta Sipőcz, Ralf Gommers, Kristen Thyng, Mridul Seth, Pamphile Roy, Kira Evans, Stéfan van der Walt, Juanita Gomez, Lars Gruter,
## Monthly meetings
Every month on the First Tue, until Dec 5, 2023, 5 occurrence(s)
- Aug 1, 2023 09:00 AM
- Sep 5, 2023 09:00 AM
- Oct 3, 2023 09:00 AM
- Nov 7, 2023 09:00 AM
- Dec 5, 2023 09:00 AM
Should we
- post video recordings? (yes, starting next meeting)
- add https://scientific-python.org/calendars/ @jarrodmillman
Do we need to revisit structure
- chair ? to lead meetings ?
- Jarrod to chair the meetings for the initial ones.
## [Endorsements](https://scientific-python.org/specs)
- NumPy is endorsing SPEC 4 (PR coming!)
- SciPy endorsed [SPEC 0](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/244), [SPEC 1](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/245), and [SPEC 4](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/246)
- what other core projects are ready to endorse @jarrodmillman will ping steering committee members involved with other core projects
- xarray dev meeting tomorrow
## Existing SPECs
- [Clarify distinction between SPEC and implementation](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/247) @tupui
- Clarify what endorsement, implementation means / looks like
- [Remaining TODOs on SPEC 2](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/229) @jarrodmillman @rgommers
- [Review SPEC3](https://scientific-python.org/specs/spec-0003/)
- It's a very high-level description of the aspects of accessibility that should be considered
- Any aspects that are missing?
- Maybe recommendations for accessible communication channels (e.g. e-mail as a fallback option to reach out and report bugs)
- Q: does pydata-sphinx-theme already address all these aspects?
- Some of it is planned work, also on Hugo theme
- May be useful to know which sphinx themes are compatible
## [Core projects](https://specs.scientific-python.org/specs/core-projects/)
- [Missing core libraries?](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/241)
- [zarr](https://zarr.dev/)
- Should we consider a participation-based core criterium? — [name=stefan]
- Maybe there could be a lesser level of participation in SPEC that is more passive for communication.
## Team membership
We are implementing [a system](https://github.com/scientific-python/sync-teams-action) for adding GH org members and team membership
- https://github.com/scientific-python/teams/blob/main/teams.yaml
- https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/tree/main/steering-committee
- Should this be generated from GH team?
## New SPECs
- I started writing up these documents without following [process](https://specs.scientific-python.org/specs/purpose-and-process/); how should I get them onto the "standards track"? — [name=stefan]
- [SPEC 6: Keys to the Castle](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/168)
- Includes two compatible workflows now: bitvault, git/gpg based
- Missing principles:
- Do not create passwords, if possible to avoid
- Record *who* has access / is responsible for a specific token / service
- Related to nightly wheels; did we come up with a good process for that?
- [SPEC 7: seeding pseudo-random number generation](https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/pull/180)
- Captures status of recommendation by NumPy and what is in scikit-image
- scikit-learn is busy overhauling their interface
- SciPy is [discussing](https://github.com/scipy/scipy/issues/14322) what to do (that discussion is what inspired the SPEC)
- Re-connect with scikit-learn @stefanv
- Generally, a more useful path for moving forward a SPEC: do the work in the project first, then ask to endorse the SPEC they're already following
# Badges
- https://github.com/scientific-python/specs/issues/240
- Henry did an example implementation: was on the Zoom chat, do we still have that Juanita?
- https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC-1-blue
- https://img.shields.io/badge/SPEC_0-Compliant-green?labelColor=%23004811&color=%235CA038
- It would be nice to have a little tree logo next to it :)
- [Add image to badge](https://github.com/badges/shields/issues/3612)