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Interoperability WG Rolling Agenda & Minutes
DIF Website | GitHub repo & Issues | Mailing list | Reference shelf | Potential future topics
Join the call!
The Interoperability Working Group meets every 2 weeks via Zoom:
Join 0800PDT/1700CET/2200ICT call | Visualization of timezones
Meeting recordings
For this call, you are encouraged to turn your video on. This is a good way to build rapport given we are a large, disparate group with constant new members.
This document is live-edited DURING each call for minutes, while a stable copy lives on our GitHub repo. Feel free to propose agenda items either via issues or by messaging on DIF Slack.
December 14, 2022
Announcements
Agenda
Upcoming meetings
Past Meetings
November 2, 2022
October 19, 2022
Survey Feedback:
Rough minutes from the Discussion and other Suggestions:
5th of October 2022 - EU Time
15th of June 2022 - EU Time
Andrew Hughes comes for a round two, EU friendly time and talks about MDL and the work he is doing for that standard. He was very active during IIW April 2022 and had some great sessions on MDL then. Lets hope we can discuss much of the outcome of those sessions
https://lists.identity.foundation/g/interop-wg/message/148
Notes
Notes doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vWZrxDVYeXMjZEevgcll5KUA-R-sCJ_NusTY3WXSEIk/edit#bookmark=id.ooi00xbr9col
8th of June 2022 - US Time
Andrew Hughes comes and talks about MDL and the work he is doing for that standard. He was very active during IIW April 2022 and had some great sessions on MDL then. Lets hope we can discuss much of the outcome of those sessions
Note docs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vWZrxDVYeXMjZEevgcll5KUA-R-sCJ_NusTY3WXSEIk/edit#bookmark=id.mm2zhc120mad
1st of June 2022 - EU Time
Validated ID comes and presents to us what it means to be EBSI conformant. We discuss how this is aiding interoperability https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/wikis/display/EBSI/Become+conformant#
25th of May 2022 - US Time
Cancelled
18th of May 2022 - EU Time
Cancelled
11th of May 2022 - US Time
Cancelled
4th of May 2022 - EU Time
IIW recap on interoperability, roundtable style to review what everyone joined in on
We need to socialize the new meeting format for DID Com Usergroup happening on Discord. Invite: https://discord.gg/eNN4Wns6Jb Format: https://hackmd.io/@dhh1128/Sk5_Gb2J9 Mailing list: https://lists.identity.foundation/g/didcomm-usergroup
27th of April 2022 - EU Time
Cancelled due to IIW focus
20th of April 2022 - EU Time (NOTICE EU TIME)
Cancelled due to issues with time changes
13th of April 2022 - EU Time
CCG Roadmap discussion part 2
6th of April 2022 - US Time
CCG Roadmap discussion - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wgccmMvIImx30qVE9GhRKWWv3vmL2ZyUauuKx3IfRmA/edit#gid=2146749098&range=B99
30th of March 2022 - EU Time
Missunderstanding of responsibilities and time frames, this meeting was cancelled
23rd of March 2022 - US Time
Trust Alliance New Zealand - https://trustalliance.co.nz/ Who are they, how do they support the ecosystem in a good way and what are their view on interoperability
16th of March 2022 - EU Time
Timezone issues created a bunch of confusion, so we rescheduled
9th of March 2022 - US Time
CANCELLED
23rd of Feburary 2022 - US Time
CANCELLED, join the DIF F2F Meeting -https://www.eventbrite.com/e/difcon-f2f-virtual-3-tickets-162786327287
16th of Feburary 2022 - EU Time
CANCELLED
9th of Feburary 2022 - US Time
Bob Blakely is coming to share with us an reflection of the SAML interop work. So we can learn from history
2nd of February 2022 - EU Time
QR Code part 2, see agenda 8th of december for context
26th of January 2022 - US Time
19th of January 2022 - EU Time
We will have a new year kickstart discussion. Revolving recent interop movements happening the last couple of months.
Preparing us for real interop for IIW 34 - April 26th-28th
Our perspective on potential interop targets: We believe that it could be possible to have interop testing around JSON-LD ZKP with BBS+.
We are also interested in interop around exchange protocols and seee WACI-PEX as haveing a lot of potential as the exchange protocol as it was designed to bridge between the Aries world and SVIP world.
Lets discuss both these proposisions.
We believe test suites should be built, how?
What is needed to get to JSON-LD ZKP with BBS+ interop? Where are they bottle necks? What are the key groups that are or will be working on key parts.
What is needed to get to WACI-PEX interop?Where are they bottle necks? What are the key groups that are or will be working on key parts.
Scope
Summary
Profile of interoperability, it has been used alot of before to land something acknowledgeble. Profile are useful to drive interoperability to a flexible spec that can drive things forward. WACIPex is a profile
What other profiles to others have? German community says it is a bit complex question. Issues with BBS+ signatures as of today.
AIP Interoperability Testing: https://aries-interop.info/ AIP profile v1.0: https://github.com/hyperledger/aries-rfcs/tree/main/concepts/0302-aries-interop-profile#aries-interop-profile-version-10 AIP profile v1.0: https://github.com/hyperledger/aries-rfcs/tree/main/concepts/0302-aries-interop-profile#aries-interop-profile-version-20
See recording and chat for further intro
NEW YEAR BREAK - 12th of January 2022
CHRISTMAS BREAK - 5th of January 2022
CHRISTMAS BREAK - 29th of December
CHRISTMAS BREAK - 22th of December
Agenda - 15 Dec - US time
Transmute and Karyl comes and talks about what are the interop views they are selling to investors to We are inviting Transmute with Karyl to talk about their last funding round to discuss how investors are triggering on their case and what level of interop is sold to the investors. They will join and sharing that journey with us in the scope of how interop is valuable, it would be great!
Agenda - 8 Dec - EU time
Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ki2VMtW1yZnWlomyeoYCIfrkLhb2Qb7Kb5sNQOiLYnY/edit#slide=id.p
Dmitri Zagidulin will come and start discussion a common QR-code initiation. See where that shall go and how it can work
QR code limitations are starting to drop of. Thanks to certain events we recently had and technology improvements.
Size limitation is still there
4 ways to share a credential VP, depending on if it is offline or online. Is it an either or, or can we switch between them.
Microsoft introduces some new potential ways of looking at sharing, and will be shared after meeting. WebShareAPI, Microsoft Cable project - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ki2VMtW1yZnWlomyeoYCIfrkLhb2Qb7Kb5sNQOiLYnY/edit#slide=id.gf8d555be24_0_23
Deeplinking
Universal App linkes or custom protocol schema. We have two deeplinkg actors, iOS & Android.
But there are multiple fallacies here, that comes down to the user on boarding. And how to make sure that we are protecting the user at the start, versus keeping it sleek.
Option to consider
Agenda - 1 Dec - US time
Cancelled
Agenda - 24 Nov - EU time
Recording: https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/T56nah0ObZFk7J5eck4bu9A_qzJDvmGW7Ze9bgjsG_A8OJ2rnyedjkJqQAfXOUlB.yo0_Kyo0lUQ3e2Z4
Summary
Do we want to define an interop profile for the community? How do we attack this task? We want need a clearer map
We have drafted a shorter cleaner version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11EKZZ0sSqOrXmdtDEtts4OrIVtQRSLB8mA3VxFLFgEw/edit inspiration from the older one https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a01GQVtZB7tDVcm9avS8zuYPHQzEEDtTOEh4Bqu-8Bs/edit
We will announce and get feedback from the mailing list and slack!
Agenda - 17 Nov - US time
EU meeting recap and action points from the outcom of that meeting
Agenda - 10 Nov - EU time
This week we are getting a visit from the German community and hear how they have gone about interop. This conversation started during IIW and has been pulled through to have a introduction in DIF interop, and see what we learn and take from their approach. This meeting is on Wednesday, 10th of November, Europe time 3PM. Have a look how that looks for your timezone here: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20211104T140000&p1=137&p2=179&p3=187&p4=44&p5=28&p6=22 Or just add the DIF whole DIF calender to your calender: https://bit.ly/dif-calendar Look forward to seeing you there, I believe it is going to be a great introduction!
Presentation from Hakan, Andreas and Eugene
Questions
More questsions was asked in the recording, have a look at that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wgccmMvIImx30qVE9GhRKWWv3vmL2ZyUauuKx3IfRmA/edit#gid=2146749098&range=C82
Tests? How have you guys gone about it?
Not yet, but it is one of our next priorties. Taking inspiration from the Aries test harness and how that should and could work.
What is the core connector for interoperability?
One profile that works acrosss the consortias would help to begin with. Instead of multiple profiles that did not work together.
How does this work with EU initatives? Meaning all countries should deliver a wallet that is interoperable
Not afraid not exctied, very netural on what will happen. Look forward to see what is going to be in the toolbox.
The interoperability matrix they are working on
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R0Y4ec1KVYErkcEgC3Qww7VR4CsCY2Lv2Bt-gfryEdw/edit#gid=1316375328
Agenda - 3 Nov - US time
Rechartering, take inspiration from this: https://www.notion.so/dif/HOSPITALITY-TRAVEL-SIG-242105321e1747f8bce776bf634a55b3. Pr this older PDF. Since interop group is not IP protected and our current charter is just a draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a01GQVtZB7tDVcm9avS8zuYPHQzEEDtTOEh4Bqu-8Bs/edit
Balaz proposed to rename the group to something else. (WG name is confusing for many companies as this group is not IPR protected) Lets hear from Balaz on what is thoughts are to get a better understanding.
Suggestions are: Interoperability (X)Cross Community Group.(WG name is confusing for many companies as this group is not IPR protected) Where do we need to rename things?
Questions
How does it all fit into the other groups? The SIGs(Health and travel) and discussion groups(Africa and Asia)?
IS this the place to build and discuss test infratructures for interop?
Agenda - 27 Oct - EU time
No agenda, cancelled
Agenda - 20 Oct - US time
Internet Identity Workshop Recap, with the focus on interoperability. Did anyone hear anything really cool about interoperability during IIW? Anything worth taking notice of?
@DW (Ping Identity) - do you have a summary of what interests came up for the interop group? Talk abit about the future of library polooza if time allows.
IIW Highlights Adrian: Two orthoganal axises - KERI - innovation and thought about security and privacy from an academic perspective but completely ignoring everything that has gone on for 6 years. DIDComm and relatives - that keep plowing ahead in a series of protocol decisions that are self referential. This is where at - now we just have to get to agree. Some people think we are already "done" KERI camp working from first principciples and do right. Noted they are not talking to each other. Darrell - premature interoperability premature standardization - we are not "there yet" which is why we see KERI DIDComm trying to align - governments taking Hyperledger Aries/Indy going to market. Interoperabiliy is not a term that is well defined. Overall good news - everyone agress we are heading in the right directions - How key rotation happens. Answer that happens in time. DIDComm world moves ahead - executable working code - those executing running along in the same direction. Describes why it is really messy. (Lets find a link -to Darrell's session)
Who is implementing KERI? - who is impelmenting - KERI is implementing - GLEIF
Sam: Seemed less rushed an panicy Fewer sessions that were more engaged in. Mike Ebert - opener question what proud of what afraid of. Where things are? Thinking a lot about IIW kinda used to be about Federated Identity - now about SSI the federated ID people less interested in the conversation. KERI - DIDComm not talking to each other - the appropriate form is to talk to each other in DIDs. Not opposed to KERI. Related - No one has throughly plugged them together.
Vitorio talk on end of day 2. DIDComm - OpenIDConnect tension exists and draws out important things. What is it important that it draws out - do they realize the vision of DIDComm - bigger then passing credentials. Helps to draw out the assuptions people are starting with. A lot of things about identity - are things about people = credentials. Holders some times involved not always involved. Things about me - DIDComm is communicating "with me" not about me. Distiction about the two. Do I use DIDComm or do I use SIOP - not accurate to pit them against each other. They are in some areas - there is a lot of get along-ness and likely path to get along - can go from OIDC-SIOP -> to DIDComm connection. Todd: The last two IIWs I have attended fewer of technical sesisons - role not working with software developers- more to choose from on the non-technical philosphoical discussions. Try to listen closely to what people are saying one of the big challenges is adoption - and getting outside this community- good to see new people - they are very enthusiastic - how does it help everything move forward. A lot of technical barriers - Sam & Sam - understand the competing agendas of the various protocols - at the end of the day looking at the consumer side- who is going to be using it. Post listening to recordings. What do we need to we get the word out.
ID2020 - felt that it was less technical then in the past. Looked at calendar and daily agendas. working with NGOs - very interesting - open to broader crowd.
Adrian: Another impression - that the reality around SSI are actually to start to come to light. After a long period (2 years) of Kymbaya. Given by focus on DHS and closely related projects and interop from there. What I am seeing at this IIW and like 4-5 really key issues coming to light.
Data Rights Protocol org working with Sandy Pentland - building on JWTs 2nd genration identity. YouTube
They imagine - 7-8 different startups class of businesse act as service providers to consumer businesse that collect data - how are these service providers gonig to manage GDPR/CCPA data rights? approach from the commercial perspective - said from the beginning - they said there would be a 4th party involved where individual is proxied by an agent relative to a service provider (daza greenwood) working with credit unions and cooperative model and this includes it.
5 specific end points - Make this commercial offering - they can go to us as the service providers to verify identity of people and manage their data rights.
Class of service providers selling B2B to and then - but they are there to offload the job of mandated to GDPR/CCPR around data rights that affect these businesses. In HealthCare we had this same thing service providers. MSFT build whole msft health strategy on it working properly.
Issue of Fedreation - OIDC google app/mozilla/apple formal objection to DIDs - peace is not made with federation
Trying to square verifiable data registries of various sorts - roll of private blockchains and role of hyperledger
custocial wallets/agents - Diwhala/Kiva - work with custocial wallets - seeing fragmentation. So much of what has been happening - every action is an authenitcation action like a FIDO-secure element - delegation to an agent - custodial wallets. "SSI we" has been living in tihs lala land of our own making having to face the market reality.
Keith: hear about things about VCs being in production - I don't see it. Was on a call with an analyist. Am I missing something. People in production? Is there a big use-case that I'm missing.
Adrian: VCs are clearly inevitable - what is not inevitable - is the subject identifeir and the schema's for VCs. That is why there is a duality between mDL and W3C standard track stuff. Education folks driving themselves nuts - running ragged - VC SSI model. What is driving them crazy - what they have done with Open Badges and tryign to include SSI standards into their market - where they service providers are institutions (and people) purity difficult to adopt Hyperldeger and DHS model. MSFT is fighting the good fight - they are in the identity hub/secure secure data storage - we have a band of catholicism that is not open to the relaities on the ground from the other perspective - IMSGlobal CLR - OpenBadges willingness to move towards VC model - we didn't want to be in a world where we are implementing all of the above. they will happen. How schema and subject identiifers. The most interesting move away from schema's towards types. I didn't see a lot of negativity. Who are the verifiers - them is us. They educational institutions accept credentials from other educational institutions.
Guardianship - Signing relesases and getting inforamtoin directly from the institutions. They want the credentials directly from the instutions. They don't have the same prolem of "calling home" anything that complicates revocation.
Agenda - 13 Oct - EU time
No call due to Internet Identity Workshop. Look at notes for potential sessions.
Agenda - 6 Oct - US time
Items
More info
Polooza
The second-part followup to the “Library interop-polooza” discussion two weeks prior, which had participation from Aries, MATTR, Spruce and Veramo.
Agenda working doc is here for history keepings: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wWl442DQK0dHhtL8HHsbdtbpMxRL-_mjCPpb3RDQo3M/edit#
IIW
We should present the work going on and get more people to engange in this future work at IIW. So lets think about a session.
How do we make sure this work differentiates from the whimsical diagram, or atleast stays up to date? https://whimsical.com/decentralized-mapping-exercise-clustered-LJJ1rizUQcYcL7MUwqWbTn
Previous meetings
Agenda - 29 Sep - EU time
Authentic Data & KERI and Certificate Transparency - Dave Huseby organized by Kaliya
Agenda - 22 Sep - US time
Meeting postponed to a later date
The second-part followup to the "Library interop-polooza" discussion two weeks prior, which had participation from Aries, MATTR, Spruce and Veramo.
follow up - Agenda worked on here. Will be posted when last comments are resolved: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wWl442DQK0dHhtL8HHsbdtbpMxRL-_mjCPpb3RDQo3M/edit#
Agenda - 15 Sep - EU time
Mozilla objection we talk about what that is, what are potential ways forward and what the DID WG thinks about this Brent Zundel comes and shares.
The objection can be seen here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-new-work/2021Sep/0000.html
Agenda - 8 Sep - US time
Library interop polooza with Aries, Mattr, Spruce and Veramo
Announcements
Juan (Spruce) on new interoperability efforts:
Presentations
Aries by Stephen Curran
Aries: introduction, implementations, interoperability and test harness
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QzE0wBSZyYSCcwbU6huEDfspRKqnokE2WEwi-RitHVc/edit?usp=sharing
Interop test suite information at https://aries-interop.info
Veramo by Oliver Terbu
Spruce by Juan Caballero
Web documentation at https://spruceid.dev/docs/didkit-packages/cli
MATTR
Update on DHS/SVIP plug-face
web-based documentation at https://learn.mattr.global/api-reference/v1.0.1
Goal is to enable primitives to exist to compose for use cases like interoperability testing
Layers needing interoperability
Model from Oliver:
Questions to ask ourselves during layer discussion
Diagram of various kinds of credentials
https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/788#issuecomment-896734277
Goal
Make sure that we are having the right efforts in place and we believe these efforts will move things forward in the right direction. Highlight where there might be missing efforts.
Appendix
Working doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wWl442DQK0dHhtL8HHsbdtbpMxRL-_mjCPpb3RDQo3M/edit#
Archive
Older agendas and minutes moved to separate files: