# OCI Weekly Discussion

###### tags: `oci` `discussion`

Time: 2100 GMT (1700 EST; 1400 PST; 2300 CET; 0700 AEST; 0500 CST)

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*template at the bottom*

## August 4, 2021

### Attendees:
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- [Define a minimum required manifest size](https://github.com/opencontainers/distribution-spec/issues/260)
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Notes:

## July 28, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqdKWVbEeMU

### Attendees:

- Vanessa Sochat (LLNL)
- Aidan Delaney
- Jason Hall (Red Hat)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Michael Brown (AWS)
- Brian Goff (MSFT)
- Tianon
- Adrian Mouat (Container Solutions)
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Jon Johnson
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Brandon Klein (SNL)

### Actionable Agenda Items:

- Next steps RFC template (@vsoch, I can only stay 20 minutes)
- other meeting times (Jason Hall)
- Full results here: https://doodle.com/poll/mg8sbyzt2b4qdf6g (17 total voters)
- The highest vote total was actually for an hour later on Wednesdays (12 votes), which would be 6am APAC / midnight EU
- The earliest time (comparatively more EU/APAC friendly) with 10+ votes was Tuesday 11-12 EST (8am PST, 11pm APAC, 5pm EU) -- earlier than that had very few votes, presumably from west-coasters
- The voteable slots were pretty US-centric to begin with, if someone in EU/APAC wants to lead the meeting in friendlier times and if there's support for it, I think we should consider it.

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:

### Notes:

- WG PR has been approved, but has pending comments (https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99)

## July 21, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crg1k8LAkGA

### Attendees:
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Tianon
- Brandon Mitchell
- Lachlan Evenson (Microsoft)
- Bracken Dawson (IBM)
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- vbatts
- Derek McGowan
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Josh Dolitsky
- Mark Peek (VMware)
- Ramkumar Chinchani (Cisco)

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- Next steps for working groups, and how to proceed with reference types (Steve)
- https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99 is updated, please review (Amye)
- 1) need the working group(s) charter closed (vote asap pls.)
- 2) Some set of working groups being discussed regarding artifacts:
- a) working group for splitting up oci image spec into generic CAS spec and image spec
- b) working group for iterating #29 artifacts spec proposal.. (no dependency on a)
- c) artifacts spec working group to make #29 concrete on top of CAS.. (depends on a) feed the use cases for the CAS spec etc.
- Next steps for RFC docs deployment

- _add your items_

- https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/issues/96
- https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99
- Next steps for the Artifacts work:
- OCI will vote on TOB#99, then a modified version of #96 This will take a few days, possibly a few weeks
- To avoid undue time constraints on rushing that process, an artifacts-spec repo will be created, with comments in the readme.md that this is intended to be donated to OCI as the working group process is defined..
- This unblocks the pressing need to make collaborative progress in neutral governance location, while the working group process takes the proper steps.
- The artifacts-spec, while outside of OCI will use mediaTypes and paths that don't conflict with OCI, so there's no concern of branding or forking. As long as we can resolve the working group and repo for tbd-artifacts-spec or some other tbd-cas-spec before Azure, Docker, AWS and others need to ship customer support, we can rename the strings to be OCI, avoiding future migration issues.

## July 14, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n3XeGGQ1_k

### Attendees:
- Bracken Dawson (IBM)
- Tianon
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Brandon Mitchell
- João Pereira (GitLab)
- Aidan Delaney
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Nisha Kumar (VMware)
- Vanessa Sochat (LLNL)
- Brian Goff (Microsoft)
- Derek McGowan
- Jon Johnson
- ASP
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- [Doodle](https://doodle.com/poll/mg8sbyzt2b4qdf6g) to collect possible new times for this meeting

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- Continue discussion from 2021-07-07 on what is valid for an index entry (manifests only or allow blobs too) (Brandon)
- Next steps for working groups, and how to proceed with reference types (Steve)
- https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99 is updated, please review (ASP)
- (if time) next steps for RFC docs deployment!
- _add your items_

### Notes:
- Doodle poll - please promote to anyone who might be interested to gather the votes.
- Beleive alternatiing weeks are better than alternating 3 month blocks to avoid loosing people
- Deletion/Lifecycle management: Agreement to capture the different registry implementations. (Steve to start the discussion for where)
- Open an issue on distribution for defining "what is a manifest". (Steve)

## July 9, 2021

### Attendees:
- Vincent Batts
- Tianon
- Jon Johnson
- dims
- Steve Lasker
- Aidan Delaney
- Tejaswini Duggaraju (Microsoft)
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- image-spec grooming

### Notes:
- Maintainers got rights to the repo
- set up the github CODEOWNERS approval process
- removed pullapprove from the approval process
- deleted pullapprove and travis webhooks
- renamed `master` branch to `main`
- users that see: `Your configuration specifies to merge with the ref 'refs/heads/master' from the remote, but no such ref was fetched.`
- will need to run:

      git branch -m master main
      git fetch origin
      git branch -u origin/main main
      git remote set-head origin -a

- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/863
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/775#issuecomment-877311438
- annotation discussion
- `go.mod` semantics

Post call: continued to close, merge, or mark duplicate issues and PRs

## July 7, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GToyLd7u7ug

### Attendees:
- Vincent Batts
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Tianon
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Josh Dolitsky
- ASP (OCI)
- Sajay Antony (Microsoft)

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Notes:
- https://github.com/distribution/distribution/issues/3452
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/blob/master/image-index.md#image-index-property-descriptions
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/blob/master/image-layout.md#index-example has examples of non-OCI mediatypes listed
- a differentiation between manifest and blob is that the API to upload is two different paths
- TODO discuss: clarifying the wording of `manifests` is a list of descriptors; rather than pointing to the OCI image-manifest doc, instead a few points of what the nature of a "manifest" even is; and point to the distribution API difference
- and clarify the "unknown to the implementation MUST be ignored" to be "MAY", and whether this is client-side ignored, or whether the server-side can reject, or garbage-collect, etc.

## June 30, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYgPOh6yiII

### Attendees:
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Vincent Batts
- Vanessa Sochat (LLNL)
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Aidan Delaney
- Ramkumar Chinchani (Cisco)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Jon Johnson
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Jonathan Boulle
- Mark Peek (VMware)
- Tianon (InfoSiftr)
- Stephen Day

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- vsoch on RFC-like OCI spec formatting: https://vsoch.github.io/rfc-jekyll/
- https://github.com/vsoch/rfc-jekyll
- vbatts - image-spec grooming
- jason hall: https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/822
- jason hall: can this meeting be an hour earlier?

### Notes:

- TODO doodle to maybe move the call an hour or so earlier
- RFC layout looks great. General +1 from folks
- we'll get a repo setup
- vsoch mentioned versioning in the path
- CODEOWNERS
- And CNAME like specs.opencontainers.org/
- image-spec/pull/822
- general agreement on the use-case
- (stephenday) remember this can get complicated. Same as we've discussed in the past
- can remove the ref component of image.base.ref.name (e.g. org.opencontainers.image.base.name)
- This doesn't address the complexity of the graph (multi-stage builds; only choosing the _last_ `FROM`)
- potential issue with annotations, many users confuse them with labels and tooling doesn't exist in Docker to define annotations: https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/issues/833
- TODO work with amye/cra to remove pullapprove from image-spec, and enable the CODEOWNERS feature for 2 maintainers

## June 23, 2021 - NO [OFFICIAL] CALL
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzDv95WGsno

### Attendees:
- Vincent Batts
- Jimmy Zelinskie
- Josh Dolitsky
- Mike Brown
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Notes:

Groomed distribution-spec PRs, issues, and began cleanup: Travis -> Github Actions; remove pullapprove; add CODE_OWNERS

## June 16, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDYwMEg9CSo

### Attendees:
- Jon Johnson
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Tianon
- Nisha Kumar (VMware)
- Vanessa Sochat (Lawrence Livermore National Lab)
- Sargun Dhillon (Netflix)
- Michael Brown (AWS)
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Adrian Mouat (Container Solutions)
- Sajay Antony (Microsoft)
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Sven Dowideit (CSIRO)
- Derek McGowan
- Samuel Karp (AWS)

### Actionable Agenda Items:

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- Finish discussion around [Allow for automatic content discovery for cross-mounting blobs #275](https://github.com/opencontainers/distribution-spec/pull/275). Reference implementation has been provided.
- (vb) image-spec issue/PR grooming

### Notes:

## June 9, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a1ie3cOMb0

### Attendees:
- Jason Hall (Red Hat)
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Vanessa Sochat (Lawrence Livermore National Lab)
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Aidan Delaney
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Lachlan Evenson (Microsoft)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Michael Brown (AWS)
- Jon Johnson
- Ken Brooks (JPMC)
- Vincent Batts
- ASP (first half only)
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Josh Dolitsky
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Stephen Walli (Microsoft)
- Sven Dowideit (CSIRO)
- Nisha Kumar (VMware)
- Tianon
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- vb - send an invite to dev@ for an image-spec grooming

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- image-spec status (Dan Lorenc)
- is it frozen? what constitutes a backwards compatible minor version change?
- is https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/828 worth pursuing?
- Status of all the manifest proposals? (Nisha)
- What does the community need to take into account when proposing manifest changes?
- https://github.com/opencontainers/artifacts/pull/29
- https://github.com/opencontainers/artifacts/pull/37
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/issues/827
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/issues/822 🙏
- Miro board link: https://miro.com/app/board/o9J_lAw_TsQ=/
- Note: Miro requires you to create an account. I can instead share a screenshot if needed.
- Any further feedback on https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99
- Yes, Phil Estes is still trapped in a house move and needs to review
- OCI Summit? (Josh)

### Notes:
- breath fire into the image-spec, so that proposals, working-groups, or individual PRs can be confidently discussed without FUD
- ++ the diagram from Nisha. Perhaps we need a place/doc to track the high level proposals that are in play, where they're being discussed, and how they relate
- vsochat - something like an RFC, which lends to tracking diagrams, and links to related RFC's
- josh - seeing the useful discussion in these weekly's, and then the hour is over, I think we need an event
- vb - we have precedent of this, when we met at the IBM office in SFO and had long ddiscussions and whiteboarding, and decision making.
- vb - and hopefully some place on the eastcoast, like Asheville NC, is a good spot for folks ;-)

## June 2, 2021 is CANCELLED

### Attendees:
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Notes:

## May 26, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsTAZ3ISv4

### Attendees:
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Brandon Mitchell
- ASP (OCI)
- Nisha Kumar (VMware)
- Vanessa Sochat (Lawrence Livermore National Lab)
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Josh Dolitsky
- Aidan Delaney
- Shane Canon (Lawrence Berkeley National Lab/NERSC)
- Ramkumar Chinchani
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Bo Liu (Alibaba Cloud)
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Derek McGowan
- Sven Dowideit (CSIRO)
- Tianon

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- An HPC Working Group? (Vanessa)
- Status of all the manifest proposals? (Nisha)
- https://github.com/opencontainers/artifacts/pull/29
- https://github.com/opencontainers/artifacts/pull/37
- https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/issues/827
- Feedback on the WG proposal?
### Notes:
- HPC Working Group
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZKMeEkgW_h8aDM-xwbDx9Iw7dMK6Bwe92qhjm9CFt4Q/edit
- [WG proposal- TOB #99](https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99)
- Discussing whether this falls under OCI or CNCF, recommend gathering the people first, and it will likely span both sides
- TAG=Technical Advisory Group
- [WH directive](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/05/12/executive-order-on-improving-the-nations-cybersecurity/)

## May 19, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmbYjvwnLk

### Attendees:
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Brandon Mitchell
- Aidan Delaney
- Tianon
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- ASP (OCI)
- Vanessa Sochat (Lawrence Livermore National Lab)
- Adrian Mouat (Container Solutions)
- Brian Goff (Microsoft)

### Actionable Agenda Items:

- [Jon] https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/826
- Review and/or actionable feedback
- [Jason; can't attend] https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/pull/822 to add base image annotations -- needs another approver please 🥺🙏

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_
- Show and Tell

### Notes:
- Phil - [mention of the TOB Working Group PR](https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/pull/99)

## May 12, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDkKIR3Odo

### Attendees:
- _add yourself_
- Larry Cable (Oracle)
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Aidan Delaney
- Mark Peek (VMware)
- Tianon
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Adrian Mouat (Container Solutions)
- Bo Liu(Alibaba cloud)
- Brandon Mitchell

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_
### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_
- discuss [portable mechanism for processes within container to obtain their image and container ids #1105](https://github.com/opencontainers/runtime-spec/issues/1105) (Larry Cable (Oracle))

### Notes:
- Would be nice to have a generic metadata service like functionality for containers, mounting the container config (image id, container id, labels, etc) in the container as a tmpfs file (Brandon Mitchell).
- Higher level tooling like K8s has some functionality, but doesn't help when containers are run outside of K8s.
- Need to avoid any security concerns of exposing host data into the container (host name and ip, should not be exposed).
- <https://lwn.net/Articles/808399/>
- <https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/1/12/818>
- <https://github.com/containerd/containerd/blob/master/pkg/cri/server/container_status.go#L106-L137>

## May 5, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJ-mCX8Qjk

### Attendees:
- Tianon
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Nisha Kumar
- Brandon Mitchell
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Aidan Delaney
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Mark Peek (VMware)
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Josh Dolitsky
- Brian Goff (Microsoft)
- Jon Johnson
- Stephen Day
- - _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation / Discussion Agenda Items:
- [Deduplicate uploads](https://github.com/opencontainers/distribution-spec/issues/236) (Sargun)
- Cross-origin mounting, if we have time (Jon)

### Notes:
- Jon: just relax the cross-repo mounting language to make `from` an optional hint
- Registries can optionally allow mounting from anywhere, if they require a `from`, they just return 202
- If registries support non-`from` mounting, return a `201` and auto-mount the blob if it exists (otherwise 202)
- Clients could drop HEAD requests and instead use `POST /v2/.../blobs/?mount=<digest>` (or do both)

## April 28, 2021 - NO CALL
Cancelled

## April 21, 2021 - NO CALL

Cancelled

## April 14, 2021
**Recording:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMTAythSK8

### Attendees:
- Chris Aniszczyk (LF)
- Vincent Batts
- Phil Estes (AWS)
- Steve Lasker (Microsoft)
- Brandon Klein (Sandia National Labs)
- Mark Peek (VMware)
- Tianon
- Josh Dolitsky
- Adrian Mouat (Container Solutions)
- Samuel Karp (AWS)
- Mike Brown (IBM)
- Sargun Dhillon (Netflix)

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- Reminder: OCI IP Release Notice Policy (Chris)
- https://opencontainers.org/release-notices/overview/
- Note: for distribution spec v1.0
- Maintainer activity audit update (Chris/Amye)
- https://github.com/opencontainers/tob/issues/95
- Next steps on maintainer voting (Chris/Amye)
- image-spec voting: https://github.com/opencontainers/image-spec/issues/838
- distribution-spec voting: https://github.com/opencontainers/distribution-spec/issues/265
- Working Groups/Streams (Phil) - [draft proposal](https://hackmd.io/WkNDyrYbRceswOICGxrHfA)
- New repo for CI images (Josh)
- https://github.com/opencontainers/container-images

### Notes:
- What are backward-compatible changes?
- Look at [kube](https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/devel/sig-architecture/api_changes.md) and [go](https://golang.org/doc/go1compat)?

## April 7, 2021 - NO CALL

- Cancelled

## April 2020 - March 2021 Call Logs
The second year of archived call logs is located on OCI GitHub as [oci-weekly-notes-2020-apr-2021-mar.md](https://github.com/opencontainers/.github/blob/master/meeting-notes/oci-weekly-notes-2020-apr-2021-mar.md).

## March 2019 - March 2020 Call Logs
Older call logs are archived on the OCI GitHub [here](https://github.com/opencontainers/.github/blob/master/meeting-notes/oci-weekly-notes-2019-mar-2020-mar.md) covering March 2019 - March 2020.

## Meeting Date

### Attendees:
- _add yourself_

### Actionable Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Presentation/Discussion Agenda Items:
- _add your items_

### Notes: