# W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly

* Date: 2024-01-10T14:00:00Z
* Call: https://meet.jit.si/solid-cg
* Chat: https://matrix.to/#/#solid_specification:gitter.im
* Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification
* Status: Draft

## Present
* [Virginia Balseiro](https://virginiabalseiro.com/#me)
* [Sarven Capadisli](https://csarven.ca/#i)
* Aaron Coburn https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/participants/
* April Daly
* [elf Pavlik](https://elf-pavlik.hackers4peace.net)
* Maxime Lecoq
* [Pierre-Antoine Champin](https://solid.champin.net/pa/profile/card#me)
* [Laurin Weger](https://activitypods.org/)
* [Rahul Gupta](https://cxres.pages.dev/profile#i)
* Hadrian Zbarcea
* Michiel de Jong
* Kai Gilb
* Frederick Gibson

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## Announcements

### Meeting Guidelines
* [W3C Solid Community Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar).
* [W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines](https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/meetings/README.md).
* No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
* Join queue to talk.
* Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed.

### Participation and Code of Conduct
* [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/).
* [Solid Code of Conduct](https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md), [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct](https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/)
* Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome.
* If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself.

### Scribes
* Sarven Capadisli

### Introductions
* name

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## Topics

### CG Elected Chairs
URL: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-solid/2023Dec/0027.html

* VB: We have three new co-chairs; Hadrian, Michiel, and myself.
* VB: SC, thanks. Thanks to everyone, and co-chairs.
* MdJ: Thanks for selecting us. Will try to do a good job.

### CG Meetings
URL: https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar

* VB: The [W3C Solid calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar) includes weekly meetings and [Special Topic Meetings](https://github.com/solid/specification/discussions/555).
* VB: Will only send out notifications from the calendar when an event is cancelled, or let me know otherwise if you'd like to receive.
* VB: STM has proposals for Tuesday usually. Last was for Election retrospective (yesterday).
* VB: We'll probably move this STM discussion to another repo.

#### Solid CG Election 2023 Retrospective Summary
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/611

* VB: Live re [Solid Ecosystem Monitor](https://virginiabalseiro.github.io/solid-ecosystem-monitor/) temporary location
* VB: If you have other comments about the Procedure, please add it to https://github.com/solid/specification/discussions/582 .

#### STM proposal
* eP: I'd like to propose https://github.com/solid/authorization-panel/issues/253 for another STM perhaps for next week (2024-01-16). There are some things about having dedicated updates, separating things. Will post in the issue so we can re-use.
* VB: Next week works.

### CG Charter and Contributing Guidelines
URL: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/

* VB: https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md

### WIP Implementation Feedback

* VB: We'll allocate some time for implementation feedback or interest to implement. Links to products/projects and demos welcome.

#### Demo

Proposed by: Fred Gibson

* FG: Enabling information interoperability by thinking of a pod as the complete space-time model for a part of the world where the pod has two interconnecting hierarchies, a hierarchy of files/documents in ldp containers with root at /, and a hierarchy of system relations with root at the webid for the system that the pod represents. A demo of this approach in action using a Car Dealership building on a TrinPod.
* MdJ: Am working on documenting using your ontology. Regarding private attributes and search, question for the group: we're sort of re-organised now, who would pick up on this - can we evolve solid to those things that are needed in practise?
* eP: Great presentation. Nice UI. Important for UX, and nice demos to see in Solid. Seems you have specific knowledge domain, for a lot of people also doing clone of X clone, and Solid perhaps more complex, or the scope the broader than just social media. Great to see use cases like yours. Regarding sub-resources access control, would like to hear about your experiences on that. What kind of intearctions work for the user and how the document hierarchy interacts with the knowledge hierarchy?
* FG: We have CSV upload. Simplified way to put triples into the system. A lot of problems to solve for this to work. One is ontologies. This creates extra bandwidth but we deliver an onotology where each time you make a request, it also delivers the (complete) ontology needed. We only create what doesn't exist. Our system ontology worked for that. We have conceptual "ids", things like "t_type" are just there as shortcut. This would be for a sophisticated user to set this up. You can of course do all this with RDF, this was a quick and easy UI. Also have commands in a row-based instructions in a spreadsheet. We'll increasingly add automation. The ontology that would allow interoperability.
* SC: Do you have a link to the ontology? In one sentence how are you separating public from private statements in the same resource and how you manage that?
* FG: We have Linked Data Hypergraph. What we've done is another layer on top of RDF to effectively have states, where it has a unique URI. Connects an entity with attribute to a thing that's true for a certain time. So we put an ACL on that. https://porsche.trinpod.us/i is a `vcard:WebId`. We look at the resource, and see many (e.g., 32) states for the entity. Has a public ACL on them. Everything is like this in the pod. Default is not public. Only when needed for Solid interoperability. For Group pods, it owuld be based on the intent of the user. The idea would to having a URI representing a triple. However you do it, it'd be helpful. The problem with LD is we don't know context for that triple, who created, when.. or why it is true, and have history of events showing what caused it. It just supports human-info.
* SC: You might wanna look at PROV-O.
* FG: We use it. Like 150 other ones? Not many define on how everything is connected. We also have dynamic XXX based on states. Ontology is used operationally, and that something that goes on server side.
* PAC: Are you aware of RDF-star, could it be an option to help you represent notion of states?
* FG: Aware of it. Our approach, how do we model how people think. RDF-star is a way to give attributes to a triple. You can kind of do it, which is fine but it doesn't give you XXX entity connect to attribute, and all the states are in the sytem, e.g, colour red is one. We are constantly classifying, grouping, associating this way. We can grab everything coloured red, and when we paint something black, the state is changed. We had to use this for very large datasets. For a high-rise building, in SPARQL it wasn't fast enough. Had to drop graph database. We use APache SQL that scales to that size.
* PAC: You may want to look at discussions in [RDF-star WG](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/rdf-star). Not a standard but the way to integrate into RDF 1.2. It'd be different introduce it in a WG.
* PAC: Re inferences, with the notion of states, can you benefit from standard mechanisms like OWL, or did you build your own?
* FG: Ours is nested, hierarchical, recursive. A very good ontology that goes down to the object. We built it all. Was difficult at scale to do inference. It was a lot of engineering to make it efficient.
* VB: Perhaps the access control approach can be in STM.

### i18n and n11n of resource identifiers
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/575

* SC: We need more reviews on the integrity of what's being proposed. Implementation commitments or feedback so that there's something grounded as to why this is being introduced. So far disucssion is good. There are implications on related specifications so good to give more time or attention, security related, access controls, how it indluences how WebID is used. Marked as milestone for next release so if we're going to do it make sure we understand.. seems like an easy thing but there's areas where it makes sense and other parts it might be an issue. Implementation experience is important to see what could break. That's important, not just looking at and seeing if it's technically okay.
* eP: I recall in one of the Matrix chats: someone was raising requirements for IRI but can't recall where. If someone needs IRI functionality, it would be good to have it. Re RDF canonicalisation. Did you look into that?
* SC: Good catch. I do remember. It wasn't related. I was thinking of RDF 1.2 concept https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-concepts/#section-IRIs actually, not canonicalisation. So that's a correction to what I said before in a meeting.
* SC: Re: first point, good point but more generally it is important because if you look at deploying things like wikipedia it's important and solid is supposed to not be ??? .
* VB: Had this issue open for awhile. Can anyone else commit to reviewing this?

ACTION: eP will review.

ACTION: SC, will respond back to comments.

### Add consider-webid-profile
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/607

* VB: Any objection to merge?
* SC: This is a class 2 thing and it's been 3 weeks. If you look at out contributing guidelines, this is a good example as to why this is ok to merge right now. https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#processing-pull-requests
* SC: This is a class 2 change. Editors should PR, and merge at discretion. We have 1-2 approvals. And it's been longer than 5 days or two meetings.
* VB: Any objections?

ACTION: SC to merge.

### Add security consideration for serving user-created files
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/598

* VB: Please review.

### Clarify requests with N3 document in server-representation-turtle-jsonld
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/608

### Should Solid (storage) servers support "RDF documents" containing multiple subjects (or quads)?
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/610

Proposed by: Maxime

### Add document status to guides, templates
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/613

Proposed by: SC

* SC: Housekeeping..