Discussion for LikeCoin community proposal #23

# Discussion for LikeCoin community proposal #23 ## Channel #proposal-discussion https://discord.com/channels/763001015712350231/796036074396844052/902774517275963412 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 "Creators Fund" is a budget from LikeCoin ecosystem development fund. The fund was managed by Liker Land team in the past years, under the principle that releasing a budget matching with the sum of Civic Liker's donation. I suggest to further decentralize the mechanism of Creators Fund distribution, by electing a group of community members to manage the fund. Suggested functions of the group includes but not limited to: - Regularly review the monthly budget - Review the algorithm of fund distribution, outsource the implementation or execute by the group itself. Request for comments now, shall raise a governance proposal when the community reach good enough consent. ``............`` 苏杨 So Yeung — 11/26/2021 should we have some discussions about the proposal 23 here before just go straight to a voting? johnshao — 11/26/2021 FYI, first message (not sure) related to the proposal #23 https://discord.com/channels/763001015712350231/796036074396844052/902774517275963412 https://discord.com/channels/763001015712350231/763001016358535203/902762420504780820 johnshao — 11/26/2021 I try to "sort out" the related discussion, https://hackmd.io/@johnshao/HynCvT6_K (free to edit), maybe it (and google translate) can help. HackMD Discussion for LikeCoin community proposal #23 - HackMD #Discussion for LikeCoin community proposal #23 ## Channel #proposal-discussion https://discord.c Image Daisy — 11/26/2021 Thanks, you are the MVP 苏杨 So Yeung — 11/26/2021 thx NoahLiu — 11/26/2021 awesome! edmondyu — 11/26/2021 I have deposited to proposal #23 Daisy — 11/26/2021 My view on the proposal is: the creators' fund was not "transparent '' in the past because it was created by the Liker Land team. But it is not the reason that we have to blame them for not being transparent. it was just too much stuff happening, and honestly, we don't even "pay" for them to create such a wonderful reinventing the LIKE mechanism. After upgrade to FoTan and everyone can deposit and vote for a proposal, it's time for people to have more awareness on making the Republic of Liker Land a better place, and help the LikeCoin team to remove the burden from their shoulder so that they can focus their energy on some other more valuable aspects to help LikeCoin standout from the crowd among the other blockchain projects. I know that Kin won't appreciate that I say the term "LikeCoin team" cause in his mind everyone is together as a team, but I really can't find the right word to describe Phoebe, Chung, David, Kiu, Aurora, Shelly Edmond, Wei, William and Kin even he step down but still doing so much for us. The things that they are doing, is changing the life of many other people indeed. Kin said in one of his articles about the dialogue with Audrey Tang on liquid democracy: we have to assume that there is "no one" working on something cause "no one" is capable of managing everything. And it's the time for the 7 of us to take up the responsibility to manage the creator's fund (well, it is absolutely not a good job to do, I am prepared to lose some friends on Matters.news as no matter how hard I try, the decision of the committee may not be able to please everyone.) But one thing can be for sure, the response of the committee will be much more robust as there are 7 of us. ckxpress — 11/26/2021 " Ask not why nobody is doing this. You are the "nobody"! " thank you, everyone. https://g0v.asia/ talking about Audrey, i'd also like to repeat an inspiration s/he provided to us: Minimum Viable Constitution. Just like the concept of Minimum Viable Product in the internet world, the concept also applies to governance. Be agile, move fast, one step at a time, nothing is perfect; the keys are 1. the new version is (slightly) better off 2. in case it fails, it can be rolled back. If a certain proposal satisfies the above 2 conditions, it's good enough to go ahead. https://ckxpress.com/liquid-democracy-with-audrey-tang/ (sorry no time to translate to eng) chungkin Express ckxpress 與唐鳳談流動民主 - chungkin Express 突然之間，都在談唐鳳，我也來趕潮流，聊聊去年跟唐鳳談流動民主的所觀所感。社會創新實驗去年 9 月，我到台北的社會創新實驗中心拜會唐鳳，同場還有 Matters 創辦人張潔平和雙方另外兩位同事。話說去年我在設計現已推出的讚賞公民共和國，類似「網上媒體的歐盟」，參與媒體擁有網站、品牌和編採等各方面的主權，但使用同一款通證（token）LikeCoin，且以流動民主的體制治理，過程中想要討教唐鳳，聽取其看法，確認自有想法。「與君一席話勝讀十年書」未免做作，也對不起讀過的書，但對話讓我獲益良多這絕對沒錯。讚賞公民共和國的設計，牽涉到經濟、政治、社會、技術、修辭、用戶體驗等眾多面向，可說是「未來學」，曾經找過很多人討教都只能針對其專業的範疇，但唐鳳則是方方面面都足夠懂，融會貫通，還能簡單解... Image 苏杨 So Yeung — 11/26/2021 https://matters.news/@artlikers/%E6%88%91%E5%AF%B9%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88-23%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E4%BA%9B%E6%84%8F%E8%A7%81-bafyreih4kjws7aoolwr2gdo2shhnxcjxsp3vuo6aiax26wcqt6rtric4jq Matters 我对提案＃23的一些意见 - Artlikers (@artlikers) 设立委员会并不表示就去中心了，如果过程不民主、制度不明确，它可以只是让权力从一个中心走向另一个中心而已。 Image Sorry, I wrote it in Chinese in Matters. 苏杨 So Yeung — 11/26/2021 😀 Daisy — 11/26/2021 In fact this kind of discussion went back to the things that Kin and I discussed about proposal 20, (can be searched on Discord). I posted a list of criteria for CDC to start with the proposal while Kin said that it should endorse the committee to work on the things out of the best interest for Liker Land which is a much easier way to adopt any changes ahead. The prelim discussion of proposal 23 was on the 👥一般 while it is under the official discussion of deposit period now. I really appreciate that everyone please stick to English which is a respect to the non Chinese validators and readers. NoahLiu — 11/26/2021 Because of here is English channel, i delete my repeat, Sorry! Daisy — 11/26/2021 I love "Agile. I was being taught a short course by one of the scrum "Master Jedi" and it helps a lot. sixwood — 11/26/2021 I am also in favour of agile proposal and hence proposal 23. Having some degree of decentralization is better than having no decentralization. I suppose it also help to relieve some undue burden on the OG LikeCoin team especially Kin. Having some progress is better than no progress, and unlike certain government which Hong Kongers are suffering from, the LikeCoin governance framework allow us to revise / refine undesirable governance. Having some hands-on experience in running the distribution will also allow the community to think of some concrete refinement in future. I would suggest the Creators Fund management committee to provide some analytics on how the creator fund is distribute, so that the community can assess if the distribution system is conducive to enhancing creativity on the LikeCoin ecosystem. My 5k Like deposited. ckxpress — 11/26/2021 thank you. It's 1% about the workload and 99% about the poor governance when i'm personally keeping a Ledger which holds 40% of total supply of LIKE. https://www.notion.so/likecoin/1e4f6be0cae2481e9ac63c80a8a87834?v=a70a3b1d9f1e4dc59c9861cd7ca34c8c LikeCoin's Notion on Notion LikeCoin Address book Last updated: 2021.11.03 Terry Tsang — 11/26/2021 In my opinion, it is better to have the Creators Fund management committee than the current unmaintained situation. And to my observation the proposed committee members are passionate, open-minded and trustworthy. I believe they will (and should) keep the committee transparent and keep pushing the committee's management forward. I really appreciate the active involvement of those proposed committee members. 2000 Like deposit is on the way. Paul Tsang — 11/27/2021 I believe there is no perfect plan or democracy idea can be reached in one step. This is a progress to modify or even overturn the original plan in some reasons. I agree to step forward and at least the execution result can be verified and also a reference for future proposal… ckxpress — 11/27/2021 a bit of side track - curioius why ⚖proposal-dicussions & 🗳proposals ? and people would discuss proposals in ⚖proposal-dicussions anyway Phoebe | LikeCoin — 11/27/2021 suppose 🗳proposals is an notification announcement channel where we can broadcast new proposal and proposals status. Looking for ways to set a bot for such purpose Eventually I think we need a discussion forum to keep track on all proposal discussions. sixwood — 11/27/2021 Or a short term solution is to open a thread of discussion for each proposal, just to keep things tidy and easy to track. Phoebe | LikeCoin — 11/27/2021 sounds good too but thread seems to have expiration date. Commonwealth platform is quite common in the crypto space. https://commonwealth.im/ Commonwealth Commonwealth Discuss, organize, and grow decentralized communities Image sixwood — 11/27/2021 Yeah commonwealth is of course much better ckxpress — 11/28/2021 i mean, but the 🗳proposals channel is not an announcement only channel, so people are discussing proposal in both 🗳proposals and ⚖proposal-dicussions ckxpress — 11/28/2021 thread is great PikachuEXE — 11/28/2021 Threaded discussion is the best feature Which is why I hate slack... nnkken — Yesterday at 3:38 PM @everyone I've just raised a proposal for testing the community pool spend functionality: https://likecoin.bigdipper.live/proposals/24 I had already sent 100 LIKE to the community pool (https://likecoin.bigdipper.live/transactions/1E2260792B8CB4068613085B52CFDDB1F3F2C1FD018676CB1E0950B24C119C94), so no fund from the original pool will be wasted for the testing. Please vote for the proposal so that we can test if the functionality works properly, so future proposals may utilize the community pool🙏 and also for me to get back the 100 LIKE Big Dipper Big Dipper | LikeCoin Block Explorer Big Dipper is an open-source block explorer and token management tool serving over 10 proof-of-stake blockchains. It has been forked more than 100 times on GitHub and has served audiences from 140 countries and regions. Big Dipper Big Dipper | LikeCoin Block Explorer Big Dipper is an open-source block explorer and token management tool serving over 10 proof-of-stake blockchains. It has been forked more than 100 times on GitHub and has served audiences from 140 countries and regions. Thread Proposal 24 3 Messages › nnkken 17m ago Lee ｜Liker.Social — Yesterday at 3:48 PM voted! Martian Forest — Yesterday at 4:00 PM Martian Forest voted yes for proposal # 24 edmondyu — Yesterday at 5:15 PM About proposal #23: let me copied my response from Matters here. The committee will start to review the direction of fund usage. Any change is possible based on community consensus. We do not start from zero, however. The current practice will be maintained until new plan is confirmed. The main purpose of this proposal is the take the first step, which is decentralizing the power, so that the usage of the fund does not solely depend on the founding team's judgement. ckxpress — Yesterday at 5:15 PM link? edmondyu — Yesterday at 5:16 PM https://matters.news/@edmond/like-coin-chain-proposal-23-endorse-a-committee-to-manage-the-creators-fund-bafyreiefu5a4tm7jnnq2vr7kqqs3v7tb2iosurroa57hj2bj6qxfqn3laq#Q29tbWVudDo5NDE2NzE Matters LikeCoin chain Proposal #23 - Endorse a committee to manage the Cre... The proposal aims to increase the legitimacy of the fund management team by community endorsement and a more decentralized committee. Image JustSmile — Yesterday at 9:22 PM Voted "yes" on Proposal #24! docker-compose run --rm liked-command tx gov vote 24 yes --from validator --node tcp://liked-service:26657 --chain-id likecoin-mainnet-2 Paul Tsang — Today at 5:14 AM Voted “Yes” for proposal #24 edmondyu — Today at 12:01 PM Some background about proposal #23 Current situation of the Creators Fund: - The funding source is from ecosystem pool, aim to encourage content consumer to reward creators by liking, via LikeCoin button and Civic Liker plan - budget is roughly matched with the fiat revenue amount of Civic Liker, currently 11K LikeCoin everyday. The budget was not adjusted frequently due to the creators community is sensitive about the budget. - The fund is distributed at around noon GMT+8 daily, from a wallet with private key held by the found team (aka Liker Land team) - Civic Liker have a much greater weight than free Liker to the Fund distribution - Some algorithm was implement to prevent the fund to be drained by bots Current KPI to the fund: - Number of Civic Liker (~2K) - Number of Likers (5377) and Creators (16408). Note that Creators can also be Likers. +++++ https://stake.like.co/proposals/23 edmondyu — Today at 1:51 PM About Creators Fund: https://docs.like.co/user-guide/civic-liker/creators-fund Creators Fund Aim to encourage content consumer to reward creators by giving Image sixwood started a thread: Proposal 24 . See all threads . — Today at 3:47 PM Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 5:15 PM I always thought that the adjustment of creators fund should be automatic. Like gas fee of Ethereum Phoebe | LikeCoin — Today at 5:20 PM Let’s create a thread for proposal 23 Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 5:21 PM I support setting up a group to do this, but I want to know why it can’t be automated Anyway just need a reasonable answer, wether or not I will vote yes for proposal 23. ckxpress — Today at 7:13 PM automated in what sense? Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 7:41 PM adjustment of creators fund Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 7:51 PM I know you guys go to the market on a monthly basis to buy enough LIKE and then match the same creators fund, but can this process be automated?Then make it public to all users so they know roughly how many LIKEs they can distribute this month and why they are distributing so many LIKE, it's not that people are worried about getting less LIKE , it's just that it's a little hard to accept without transparency. edmondyu — Today at 8:04 PM There is technical reason but still it is opened to discuss, like all sorts of other enhancements. The details, however, cannot be processed by one proposal. In fact I think the governance procedure is not capable to process ALL detail executions, at least not at this stage. That’s why the proposed first step is to setup a committee run by the community, not sorely by the founding team. Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 8:06 PM I completely understand the technical difficulties I think you should set up a UI to tell people how many LIKE to distribute this month, frequent adjustments are not the problem, people not seeing it is the problem. edmondyu — Today at 8:08 PM btw, Creators Fund is nothing to do with buying LIKE from the market. You may have mixed the Civic Liker Monthly subscription and the Creators Fund up. It is a fixed LIKE budget distributed everyday once the matched amount is judged edmondyu — Today at 8:12 PM Yes, the proposal is about to setup a committee to decide and execute something like this kind of enhancement. Lee ｜Liker.Social — Today at 8:13 PM As I said before wether or not I will vote yes for proposal 23 edmondyu — Today at 8:13 PM Thanks for supporting this initial step. ## Channel #一般 https://discord.com/channels/763001015712350231/763001016358535203/902762420504780820 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 由於目前創作者社群主要是中文社群，這個提議我會中英文頻道都發，方便更多人參與討論。創作基金源自 LikeCoin 生態發展基金，過往一直由 Liker Land 團隊負責管理，撥款的原則為跟每月讚賞公民的總捐款相若。隨著社群日趨成熟，Liker Land 希望推動創作基金的撥款民主化，由社群來決定基金的總額及運用方式。想招募幾位關心「化讚為賞」一事，並願意承擔日後營運創作基金工作的志工，組成營運小組。初步期望此小組的功能包括： - 定期決定創作基金撥款總額 - 檢討創作基金派發機制，作出建議，並委託或親自執行。當社群有一定共識後，我建議正式提案，授權這個小組管理這筆創作基金 Daisy — 10/27/2021 因為這個是 chain level 的東西，所以委員們應該無法「親自執行」？ edmondyu — 10/27/2021 這小組可能對如何分配創作基金的邏輯有意見，但執行上可能要寫代碼。 KenOokamiHoro — 10/27/2021 🤔 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 然後發展下去，或者是小組成員共同持有一個 multisig wallet 儲著 creators fund Wright Fu — 10/27/2021 我見已經有人質疑點解 creators fund 既分配額度又在沒有預警下調低 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 原則上是配對讚賞公民的捐款金額分配，讚賞公民是基於法定貨幣計算，所以等值法幣的金額並沒有調低。 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 但以上做法只是按過往的機制。但若能成立一個專責小組，以後便由這小組決定要如何定這總額。討論結果可以是不再跟讚賞公民月費掛勾，或任何其他可能。 KenOokamiHoro — 10/27/2021 😶‍🌫️ Daisy — 10/27/2021 個 post 咪係預警囉，今日都未調低。不如你邀請佢入黎傾吓。 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 抱歉我不完全看懂，是指說有人在質疑創作基金又在沒預警的情形下調低嗎? Daisy — 10/27/2021 Exactly 是你說的情況。但是連貓丁大都要調低兌換 LikeCoin 做 2000，有調整才是正常不是嗎？ NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 當然是正常的建議這部分的宣傳期可以再長一點...至少多幾天? 讓我們來大力宣傳一下會更好 johnshao — 10/27/2021 其實大部份人想知道的是明确知道自己可以從拍手中獲得多少LikeCoin。可能要講多一些。🙈包括起源。 Daisy — 10/27/2021 我會觀察從來不關注議案/投票的人是怎樣回應這件事的（鼻孔已備） NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 Y，對他們來說調低叫做關我X事然後等到錢少了才在那邊「欸!!」是說，那個專責小組我挺有興趣。不過我怕雷 johnshao — 10/27/2021 不怕，雷就以留學為理由辭任。勇敢報名 💪🏽 Daisy — 10/27/2021 是沒有一定的，因為「是為你拍手的人的個人質素」而導致你會有多少 LikeCoin，而不是你自己是甚麼人「讚賞公民 V.S. 普通 Liker 」有多少 LikeCoin。我、@NoahLiu 和閱讀筆耕的文都寫過很多次了。只是人們一味都只喜歡相信他們相信的。 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 不是吧🤣 我還是會努力把該搞懂的搞懂啦那先+1好了 johnshao — 10/27/2021 我也明白，🙈所以有小組對Liker Land團隊來講，也比較好回應別人。 johnshao — 10/27/2021 可以的，gogogooo～ catding — 10/27/2021 麻煩就是拍手者的拍手習慣對分配有什麼影響，這點沒有明確公式，也沒法給出計算範例像委託受益的規則，就能算得很清楚 Daisy — 10/27/2021 這個小組某程度上是顧人怨小組，難做的，但是怎樣也要有人做。現時的情況就好像 LikeCoin 要去打江山，開發 Osmosis、Emeris（有助幣價），而我們當中就要有人把他們一直以來的重任承擔下來去處理。 Daisy — 10/27/2021 都是那句，如果規則是公開就會 Game the System。 catding — 10/27/2021 沒公開其實也不難game 🤣 Daisy — 10/27/2021 你不要用你的 Genius mind 去量度我 Pig Pig mind。 catding — 10/27/2021 我的態度是偏向盡量開源啦，有能game的地方就慢慢修 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 這就像是他們之前的作品，由第三方的委員們管。 johnshao — 10/27/2021 🙈不如，你也加入，自己人吐槽，好過被人發現。 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 現在的分配機制很迷，因為我看他們一堆人在分享創作有價，然後我一篇文章一篇打他們五篇，嫩。~ NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 不然john也來好了，不要跑 Daisy — 10/27/2021 但是一個圍爐又打你沒出頭 johnshao — 10/27/2021 🙈會不會Matters那邊有人加入會比較好？現在比較大的like button社群有人在，會比較好。不要一堆驗證人。 catding — 10/27/2021 我這種擅長玩規則的還是算了，就像不做社群委託委員那樣，避免利益衝突還有被人質疑XD 是可以找我討論or分享我在某規則下有什麼手段啦 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 Keep touch. NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 這提議很好。其實最理想是一個平台一個代表人(matters、痞客邦、方格子...)啦不過剛剛 @edmondyu 也說了可能要會coding的.. Daisy — 10/27/2021 我覺得 @catding 在 CDC 因為提供起 node 服務所以避嫌可以理解，但是談 Rewards 的我覺得是 OK 的。如果能拿 Rewards 的人都不能加入委員會，那就所有 Matters Vocus Pixnet 的人都不能加入科科。 catding — 10/27/2021 但我可以做到留後門並且自動化利用，一般用戶沒這個能力 johnshao — 10/27/2021 🙈也要有人肯加入才行，這工作也不好做。 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 是說，@Daisy ，想請問一下有人反映說，像這種調降的部分社區為甚麼可以直接調?不須至少經過投票嗎?醬子我pig pig mind，一時不知道怎摸回應 catding — 10/27/2021 目前就中心化運營，又不是一天兩天的事情了 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 有你這句我就明白了🤣 是是這樣嗎 catding — 10/27/2021 當然這個規則以前就提過啦 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 不會 coding 也沒關係，可以委託別人做。總之是獲得社群授權管這事 catding — 10/27/2021 只是具體的調整方式/反應價格的時間就不明了 johnshao — 10/27/2021 🙈如果之前有人肯進來入做，也不會變成今天這樣。 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 另外是，建議先設定人數上限，怕太沒效率最後 burn out 了，寧願之後覺得很有需要再加有人反映說，像這種調降的部分社區為甚麼可以直接調?不須至少經過投票嗎?醬子創作基金是一個 matching fund，參考的是讚賞公民的月費金額，所以LIKE數上雖有調降，但目的是保持撥款金額不變。目前就中心化運營，又不是一天兩天的事情了所以現在便逐步去中心化出去了，等有心成員接只是具體的調整方式/反應價格的時間就不明了是否要對外公開，公開多少，也可以是由小組決定的一個議題 Daisy — 10/27/2021 蛋和雞的問題。不如我問問他/她，為甚麼 LikeCoin 不問過你閣下就有成立這個機制，你用就有錢你又接受一直用不去問？某一層面上這是我抓狂的地方，雖然我經已接受了。只是當我知道有一些人在不停說別人抱團擼幣但原來連 Liker Land app 都不知道要下載的時候，你能感受我的傻眼嗎？所以我只可以不斷寫文章去做教育。而且 LikeCoin 的成立，有經過投票嗎？笑噴。 NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 哈哈，我覺得有共識能夠懟這種聲音就OK了! NoahLiu — 10/27/2021 成立的話我+1 我會coding 不過對於治理部分，我還要多學習。 Daisy — 10/27/2021 是完全明白和了解。民主化是非常好的，但就算是真實的國家，都不能一步到位。所以現在，就是大家逐步去學習和實踐的好機會。 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 人數上限方面我建議別多於5 人，有需要再加。 Daisy — 10/27/2021 我進 catding — 10/27/2021 我……就不進去了但需要的話，可以問我規則可能被怎麼玩XD Daisy — 10/27/2021 顧問，猛 edmondyu — 10/27/2021 因為是前營運團隊成員，除非人不夠，否則我也不進了，讓去中心化進程沒包袱地走大步一點，但早期都會列席會議以補充背景及過往經驗。 `...................................` Wright Fu — 10/27/2021 同意這個願景，但我的觀察是，很多有使用 LikeCoin 的作者，行跡都是跨平台的 Terry Tsang — 10/27/2021 簡單來說就是想將creators fund的(黑箱)作業由營運團隊轉移到另一個公開招募的小組，我有沒有理解錯？ Terry Tsang — 10/27/2021 creator fund算是公共財富吧，小組成員最好有能力訂出公平的分配機制，不要變成瓜分大會或是將機制玩壞了 jiahe — 10/27/2021 既然要用公開的小組來決策尚不歸屬於任何人的幣要如何分配，新訂好的規則必然也要先成為 proposal 經所有持有人投票通過才能加以實現。 edmondyu — 10/28/2021 我認為為了效率，小組的決策不一定都要全民投票通過，或最少不應該所有決策也如此處理。反正公眾若察覺決策不妥，一透過公共討論、二能提 signalling proposal、三能提案換人。 edmondyu — 10/28/2021 一平台一代表的話人會太多 edmondyu — 10/28/2021 >將creators fund的(黑箱)作業由營運團隊轉移到另一個公開招募的小組 > 是的，但想強調兩步走的次序： 1）把結構民主化 2）把機制透明化怎樣做 2），做到什麼程度，步伐如何，有 1）的基礎。而現在先提議 1）的改變。 edmondyu — 10/28/2021 明白這種心情。我也擔心負責的志工會因此 burnout，畢竟面對的批評可以很酸很尖銳；但期望經社群投票授權的程序，令執行者獲得較大的信任。自己選出來的人希望能傾向愛護多一點而不是事事理所當然。當然更理想的是有想法的人親自操刀執行，而不光是在旁質疑。 edmondyu — 10/28/2021 這個發展是 open to discuss，但第一步還是先把結構去中心化。日後會變成怎樣也好，在這基礎上可以慢慢演變出來。 NoahLiu — 10/28/2021 我蠻有興趣了解糾古這個工具會想怎麼實現我自己事有打算之後調升傭金率，然後讓加入我圍爐的人來分享我的傭金所得，這就像是我以驗證人身分搞基金會 NoahLiu — 10/28/2021 Agree, 重點是先去中心化，然後在來討論細節。 FarmerL — 10/28/2021 這想法很好我建議可以先嘗試列出一些對團隊的期望例如： 1) 每個月會報告基金的情況 2) 團隊每月有X次會議 (我覺得很有意義，但我是新加入這社群，不知可以如何參與，試試拋磚引玉吧) Daisy — 10/28/2021 還是那句，如果不是有 LikeCoin，連整個化讚為賞操作都不會有，黑箱作業？箱子都沒誕生耶。我明白所謂的爭取權利是每個人在血液裡想要的事，但是在要求之前，請退後一步，回看一下 LikeCoin 從何而來，為何而生。我期許大家，更多是我自己，可以更寬容。 NoahLiu — 10/28/2021 多討論:D FarmerL — 10/28/2021 😆 先要培養用Discord 的習慣 NoahLiu — 10/28/2021 我也是當驗證人後比較有再看.... MN — 10/28/2021 所以到時候會有人來抓你的自動化利用，只是在那個人還沒出現之前，就是你的紅利期（X）需要衡量良善和收益的那種 catding — 10/28/2021 所以我就不加入小組了跟大家公平競爭🤪 catding — 10/28/2021 @MN 你要加入看看嗎XD KenOokamiHoro — 10/28/2021 👀 jiahe — 10/28/2021 給有興趣想像 ISCN 可以用來幹嘛的 Liker ，這是一條線索。 https://artouch.com/column/content-51662.html 典藏 ARTouch.com yungwei 【數位藝術保存專欄】文藝工程師的新選擇：媒體藝術修護師 | 典藏 ARTouch.com 越是以當代媒材製作的作品，就像是為一個人進行全方位的診斷與治療，要由各科醫生一起貢獻專業知識才能做出當下最適宜的判斷。我們必須要承認，創作媒材的未來必定會不斷跟著技術的發展前進，各位工程師們，請帶著你們的技能，一起加入維護藝術作品的行列吧！ MN — 10/28/2021 暫時是心有餘而力不足 😂 `...................................` edmondyu — 11/03/2021 想請各位繼續關注此事。我在週一的社群會議中已簡短報告過，有一個想法上的微調：建議把初始委員人數先限為 3 人，走出去中心化的第一步。日後若有需要可以再提議案修改。目前表達過有興趣參與的朋友，有 @Daisy 和 @mashbean ，看看還有沒有其他人有意願，請在這裡表達。 KenOokamiHoro — 11/03/2021 👀 johnshao — 11/03/2021 還有 @NoahLiu @KenOokamiHoro edmondyu — 11/03/2021 好共 4 人 NoahLiu — 11/03/2021 嗯嗯，我有意願喔 edmondyu — 11/03/2021 初步這個小組的工作是 review 創作基金每月的分配金額。Liker Land 團隊會向小組成員交代目前的分配邏輯，讓小組成員研究改善建議 KenOokamiHoro — 11/03/2021 🤔 edmondyu — 11/03/2021 打算在這裡收集一段時間意見，大約是 2 星期後（暫定 15/11），便正式提交議案讓社群投票。議案可能會同時包括申請 ecosystem development pool 的一筆錢，放到一個 multisig 的錢包，讓組員每月負責批款。 @KenOokamiHoro 我好像找不到你有明確表達過意願（只見到 emoji 😆 ）你是想參與這小組嗎？能否表達一下 KenOokamiHoro — 11/03/2021 有想法🤔 edmondyu — 11/03/2021 打算進小組嗎？ KenOokamiHoro — 11/03/2021 有机会的话（ 😶‍🌫️ `...................................` leafwind — 11/05/2021 I am in, 雖然我心中目前沒有最好的方法，但可以收集一些意見 edmondyu — 11/05/2021 感謝。我想就目前約報名有興趣參與的朋友來一個簡短的網上會議，確認一下大家的意願和彼此認識。另外我建議為了效率這小組人數最多三人，目前報名的已有 5 人。當然也無不可，但最好是跟將要落手做事的人共識出一個結果來。 `...................................` edmondyu — 11/08/2021 @KenOokamiHoro @NoahLiu @leafwind @Daisy @mashbean 請問有意見嗎？或者再開一個獨立的組方便溝通約時間也行 NoahLiu — 11/08/2021 支持開線上會議! 上週太忙了沒注意到，sor edmondyu — 11/08/2021 不要緊，大家都忙，明白的。這事說急也不算急，但早一點啟動，事情便可早一點推進 mashbean — 11/08/2021 沒問題👌請多指教 KenOokamiHoro — 11/08/2021 啥时候😶‍🌫️ edmondyu — 11/08/2021 我先建議幾個晚間的時間點，大家選一選好嗎？若都不行再說。請在以下時段選三個你可以的，寫你的名字： 9:00 pm (GMT+8) 10/11 daisy 11/11 14/11 daisy ken noah 15/11 daisy ken noah leafwind 18/11 daisy noah leafwind 19/11 daisy ken noah leafwind Daisy — 11/08/2021 11/11 我不成 13/11 碼農區塊鏈工作坊 KenOokamiHoro — 11/08/2021 还行 KenOokamiHoro — 11/08/2021 14 15 和19咱都成（ NoahLiu — 11/08/2021 14/11 之後，(台灣時間)晚上8:30之後都成 edmondyu — 11/08/2021 14/11 當晚可以嗎？ NoahLiu — 11/08/2021 可 leafwind — 11/08/2021 15 18 19 Wright Fu — 11/08/2021 屆時可以旁聽嗎？ edmondyu — 11/08/2021 第一次會議我沒意見，以後便看大家如何安排了 edmondyu — 11/08/2021 讓我定一下這次 conference call 的議程： 1）每人簡短一分鐘自我介紹 2）確認小組成員參與意願 3）決定小組人數。若人太多，即時互選。會議時長會控制在 15-30 分鐘內，議案初稿會預先發給大家。 @mashbean 有勞選一選日子 mashbean — 11/08/2021 11/11 14/11 daisy ken noah mashbean 15/11 daisy ken noah leafwind mashbean 18/11 daisy noah leafwind mashbean 19/11 daisy ken noah leafwind mashbean edmondyu — 11/09/2021 Yeah! 目前 15/11 和 19/11 所有朋友也有空，我建議15/11 晚 9:00 我們網上會議打個招呼。 `...................................` 雞蛋糕 GCAKE — 11/09/2021 想旁聽+1，目前正在學習如何架設驗證節點，也對創作者社群生態發展的討論有興趣 SJ — 11/09/2021 想旁聽+1 Wright Fu — 11/09/2021 那是有關創作基金的會議啊 edmondyu — 11/09/2021 這樣好嗎？因為這次會議只是確認 proposal 內的人選而已，不會涉及任何基金分配等的議題，大家來旁聽恐怕不會獲得多少資訊；為了效率我覺得還是待小組會議時，再由他們決定旁聽的規則好嗎？雞蛋糕 GCAKE — 11/09/2021 我知道，會議主題是討論創作基金分配問題雞蛋糕 GCAKE — 11/09/2021 好的👌，明白 `...................................` leafwind — 11/12/2021 @Daisy @NoahLiu @KenOokamiHoro @edmondyu 就這些？ johnshao — 11/12/2021 還有 @mashbean leafwind — 11/12/2021 我全部加好友了，請各位私訊我一下email，我來發邀請？ Daisy — 11/12/2021 已私 mashbean — 11/12/2021 已私，謝謝 edmondyu — 11/12/2021 🙏🏻 YK — 11/13/2021 請問15/11是什麼會議？不好意思，未能跟上😅 Wright Fu — 11/14/2021 創作基金管理的起始會議 edmondyu — 11/14/2021 https://discord.com/channels/763001015712350231/763001016358535203/907236963147460631 YK — 11/14/2021 我不懂沒有經驗，可以Join嗎？有興趣先了解一下，但未必懂得做😅 edmondyu — 11/14/2021 你想加入小組？還是只是想旁聽了解一下發生什麼事？若是前者，感謝你願意付出時間，要留意的是小組有一定的恆常工作量。若是後者，則明天的會議只是確認 proposal 內的人選而已，不會涉及任何基金分配等的議題，你來旁聽恐怕不會獲得多少資訊；為了效率我建議待小組正式成立時，再由他們決定公開資訊的方法。 YK — 11/15/2021 明白。謝謝您的回覆🙏 Annie — 11/15/2021 不好意思我來晚了，之前一直在proposal-discussion那裡追看，沒找到在哪裡舉手… 我舉手🙋，如果可以的話，想參加這個會議的討論，日常都在想這件事…謝謝大家。 edmondyu — 11/15/2021 歡迎。今晚我們會有個簡短的會議，確認意願和提案內容。請 @leafwind 幫忙也邀 @Annie 一下，謝謝 `...................................` edmondyu — 11/15/2021 今晚創作基金小組籌備會議 8:00 開始。好像還有一人未回應 @leafwind 的邀請，溫提記得上線喔～ KenOokamiHoro — 11/15/2021 ？ 👀 啥邀请鸭 edmondyu — 11/15/2021 電郵，內附會議連結 KenOokamiHoro — 11/15/2021 👀 👌 leafwind — 11/15/2021 @Annie 還沒回我，所以無法邀請他，其他應該都有連結了 KenOokamiHoro — 11/15/2021 😂 NoahLiu — 11/15/2021 😆 edmondyu — 11/15/2021 原來是我在私信中打錯了時間（我寫了 9:00）給 @Annie 累她失了預算，很是抱歉 😣 `...................................` Liker.Social — Today at 9:07 AM @苏杨 So Yeung 在这里讨论的苏杨 So Yeung — Today at 9:11 AM 你是说什么在这里讨论？ Liker.Social — Today at 9:13 AM proposal 23 苏杨 So Yeung — Today at 9:16 AM 我以为proposal都是在proposal discussions频道讨论 Daisy — Today at 9:17 AM 在開發者有 timestamp 晚上十時才弄好，也不是不討論而是需要時間吧，各人 timezone 不同。 Liker.Social — Today at 9:17 AM 其实 Edmond 问了很长时间，一开始没人回应的。不能算没讨论过苏杨 So Yeung — Today at 9:20 AM 当然每个人timezone不同，我也是刚才在开发者频道里看到议案已经提交了。所以我才跑去proposal discussion去看，并没有发现有讨论才提出谘询。当然我明白任何人都可以随时提出议案，并没有规定要先讨论，不讨论也是可以提出的。我只是好奇这次议案为什么没有跟以往惯例一样在proposal discussion里讨论过再提出而已，当然惯例也不是一定要follow的。我觉得”有没有讨论这个问题“不用再讨论了，我已经了解了，是在这里讨论过的。我会爬楼看下相关的讨论。苏杨 So Yeung — Today at 9:31 AM 呃。。。没人回应算不算没有讨论，我也不太确定😂 苏杨 So Yeung — Today at 9:33 AM 我说的不是没有讨论，我也相信肯定是（有人）讨论过，我的问题只是为什么没有在那个设来讨论proposal的频道里讨论而已。 Daisy — Today at 9:36 AM 對，我就是說我想像中那人花了很大力氣第一次去提案，所中我猜想他 timezone 太晚一弄好已去睡死的意思，不是說有人或沒人討論的問題。事實上 14 天存入保證金時期也可以用作討論。