# 2020-11-03 conda-forge core meeting

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[Zoom link](https://flatiron.zoom.us/j/93242638216?pwd=bjRCWmVJRW1oTGJhN09VUmxtTTJOUT09)
[What time is the meeting in my time zone](https://arewemeetingyet.com/UTC/2020-08-26/17:00/w/Conda-forge%20dev%20meeting#eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2hhY2ttZC5pby9wUk15dFVKV1FmU3NJM2xvMGlqQzJRP2VkaXQifQ==)
[last weeks meeting](https://hackmd.io/fLFDZ8oHQJK83CXiqLc0Yg)

## Attendees

## Agenda

### Standing items

* [x] intros for new folks on the call

* [x] (CJ) budget
* current approvals?
* Whenever updated numbers land, please screenshare and show the budget.
* Link is in Keybase (numfocus_spreadsheets.txt)

* [x] open votes
* Cheng for core!

* [ ] (MRB/ED/SC) Roadmap / Funding
* goal is to spend 15 minutes each core meeting for ~3-4 meetings to discuss this
* Save last 15 minutes for this.
* https://hackmd.io/0zGSUS71SbOdBsdLtDmGjg
* notes will get added to hackmd above
* MRB will collate into a document of sorts
* Today I'm gonna ask you all to help us do some data collection on our infrastructure and its risk
1. Some numbers:
* https://github.com/conda-forge/by-the-numbers/blob/master/conda-forge-timelines.ipynb
* conda-forge has added about 3k feedstocks per year in 2019 and will in 2020
* the growth in the amount of data we store appears to be accelerating
2. risk measurements
* CJ deserves all of the credit for this idea
* https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADNNauwVZWUsEdlh5aEg0OLjyDWvCX7PLoo-K34EqcM/edit#gid=0
3. More discussion from last time

#### From previous meeting(s)

### Your __new__() agenda items

* [x] (MRB) propose moving regular core meetings to every two weeks and doing planning in the off week in this time slot

* [x] (MRB) proposed policy on when core pushes to the feedstocks they don't maintain
* policy would be:
1. Normal wait time is 3 days for any PR, including migrations, requests for adding maintainers, merging PRs, etc.
2. In extenuating circumstances (i.e., bad bugs, blocking lots of other PRs/work), core reserves the right to merge before 3 days.
* Should we have a special "break-glass" label we apply?
* Two core member rule: If you're going to break-glass and merge before this 3 day window you need two core members to approve (merging is consider implicit approval, as is making the PR)
3. Core will do its best to not merge PRs marked as in a draft state, either explicitly as a github draft PR or
through a label, comment, or indication in a title.
4. Core will do its best to not merge PRs with requested changes (via a comment, label, title, or a PR review), though if the person
requesting the change is unresponsive to questions or to changes being made, then we may merge.
* todo
* [x] (MRB) put in docs PR
* [ ] (MRB) make PR on bot to mention the policy

* TODO: Check on Forrest Watters permissions for core

* [x] (FF) Outreachy would cost 6500 USD.
Goal: find a person to work with the bot team on documentation. This person would be mentored by Vini (our GSoC student) and Matt. Outreachy has a higher conversion rate than GSoC, that means the person usually stays in the community helping out later.
* Next steps: write abstract and vote on spending of funds.

* [x] (IF) Pinning packages with newer macOS requirements
* For eg:
- tiledb 2.1 requires 10.13
- aws-sdk-cpp 1.8.70 requires 10.12 (this is fixed in https://github.com/conda-forge/aws-sdk-cpp-feedstock/pull/153)
* This effectively brings the required minimum macOS version of the conda-forge stack up to 10.13
* We should either,
* Not pin any package that has a minimum macOS version > 10.9 (I'm leaning towards this)
* Update our minimum macOS version to 10.13
* Added new docs https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/pull/1181
* On a related note, conda's virtual package `__osx` doesn't work as expected
* Details - https://github.com/conda-forge/fiona-feedstock/issues/172#issuecomment-721832525
* @mbargull:
* bioconda moved their default to 10.13 with deploy target as 10.9.
* Action Items:
* Poll?
* Maybe tie it in with apple's deprecation policy?
* Migrate __osx to a run instead of run_contrained?
* This would mean these packages will NOT be installable with older conda
* Build a list of these
* (CB) Check PyPI macOS access stats
* Done in https://gist.github.com/chrisburr/d69cc028b2d5a87a749171a7c1c57d77

* [x] (WV) beta.mamba.pm
* We're setting up a small quetz instance
* run_exports plugin is enabled, e.g. https://beta.mamba.pm/api/channels/test/packages/bzip2/versions/1.0.8-h516909a_3/run_exports

### Pushed to next meeting

* [ ] (MB) CentOS 6 end of maintenance support
* 2020-11-30
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centos#End-of-support_schedule
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux#Product_life_cycle
* Some projects start to use defines from kernels newer than cos6's
- https://github.com/conda-forge/util-linux-feedstock/pull/7/files#diff-d7075654874cb08007a21aaab3ecd4b3453a9087e7505d034d548b8938b599bcR4-R6

### Active votes

### Subteam updates

#### Bot

#### ARM

#### POWER

#### CUDA

#### Docs

#### staged-recipes

#### website

#### security+systems

### CI infrastructure

#### Compiler upgrade

### CFEP updates

#### Open PRs

* [cfep-04](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/7) X11 and CDT policy
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs new champion. Thanks for your work on this pkgw! Has unaddressed comments from pkgw as from Jan 10, 2020

* [cfep-06](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/9) Staged-recipes review lifecycle
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Lingering comment from @saraedum. @jakirkham, can you reply? Has unadressed comment from @saraedum from Jan 8, 2020
* (MRB) The stalebot has solved the worst of the issues here. I think we could defer this one permanently.

* [cfep-10](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/15) Feedstock statuses, unmaintained
* INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status?
* Needs another review. Has unaddressed updates from pkgw as of Jan 11, 2020

* [cfep-12](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/23) Removing packages that violate the terms of the source package
* Stalled since May 26, 2020
* Active debate about moving to "broken" vs deleting from conda-forge channel
* Active vote, ends on 2020-03-11
* What were the results of the vote?
* Did we hear back from NumFOCUS?

* [cfep-17](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/32) Handling pin backports and dependency rebuilds
* Stalled debate about implementation details between Isuru, CJ and Matt
* **UPDATE 2020-07-22**: We in principle have agreement to render the extra pinnings needed directly in the feedstock
on a temporary basis (i.e., until the migration has ended).

* [cfep-20](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/39)

## Discussion

## Check in on previous action items
Copy previous action items from last meeting agenda.

### This meeting
2020-11-03

### Last meeting
2020-10-28

### 2 meetings ago
2020-10-21
* [ ] (Marius?) Python 2.7 migration
* ( ) [ ] make a hint
* ( ) [ ] make an announcement
* ( ) [ ] make the hint a lint

### Move to Issue Tracker
2020-10-07
* [ ] Make sure to add the NVBug info to the cudatoolkit package that conda-forge makes (if we make one)

2020-09-30

2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB)
* do libgfortran name change
* add target platform to hashes
* do gfortran migration with bot
* bump pinnings

2020-09-16
* [x] Get a call set up with Jon Mease about the kaleido staged recipes PR
* Emailed on 2020-09-16
* [x] (FF) Open up a PR on the python feedstock for python 3.9 and see what fails

2020-09-09
* [ ] (ED) Update governance docs with similar voting model as what got put into conda-tools (+3 with no -1 is a pass)
* [ ] (SC) Write jinja template to turn institutional partners yaml into a website https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/master/src/inst_partners.yaml
* [ ] (SC) Document what needs to be done to create an OVH account and get access

2020-08-26
**Docker hub**
* [ ] (JK) Check in on Azure build workers to see if they have the docker hub limitation.
* [ ] (JK) work with dockerhub to see if we can get OSS status
* [ ] Check in again at some point. We haven't heard back as of 2020-09-23
* [x] (MRB) start pushing images to quay (https://github.com/conda-forge/docker-images/pull/152)

**OVH**
* [ ] (???) build webpage to credit them (and others)
* [ ] If we're adding a logo, will want to make sure that we have permission to use it.
* [ ] Shout-out on twitter at some point. "Thanks forOVHCloud for providing a VM", etc. (maybe after we ship qt on windows with it?)

* [ ] Figure out how to communicate breaking changes to users. Likely should open up an issue immediately for futher discussion. Ping @kkraus, plus capture notes from further up in these meeting notes

* [ ] John K. will update the cuda toolkit feedstock on the git repo to note the NVBug link to the internal NVIDIA issue tracker
* [ ] Jonathan will update docs to note that some non-exhaustive list of packages (like cuda-toolkit, MKL, etc.)
* [ ] Jonathan will review this [PR](https://github.com/AnacondaRecipes/cudatoolkit-feedstock/pull/7)

* [ ] (Kale) schedule conda working group
* [ ] cfep-10 next steps: CJ to call a vote for feedback
* [ ] cfep-06 next steps: Ask staged recipes team to champion this CFEP and move it forward
* [ ] jakirkham & CJ-wright to sync on adding CUDA to the migration bot
* [ ] (Eric) Scheduling Anaconda <-> conda-forge sync on anaconda.org requirements gathering
* Will try and get this scheduled in the next month.
* [ ] (Anthony) Reach out to NumFocus to figure out legal ramifications of not including licenses in files.
* [ ] (Eric) check internally for funding levels for hotels & flying folks from the community in?
* [ ] (Eric) Figure out finances of conda-forge to support themselves?
* [ ] (jjhelmus) Open up CFEP for which python's we're going to support
* [ ] (jakirkham) write a blog post on CUDA stuff we discussed today
* [ ] (jakirkham) update docs on how to add CUDA support to feedstocks
* [ ] (jakirkham) will open an issue on conda-smithy to investigate Drone issues. (ping the aarch team)
* https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/954
* [ ] (ED) Who we are page? Some combination of a FAQ and a who is everyone. FAQ things like:
* who's the POC for CF <> Anaconda, CF <> NumFocus, CF <> Azure
* who's the POC for the various subteams?
* Informal information: roles, day jobs, bios, the whole nine yards, why you're here, etc.
* Public or internal? I don't really care either way. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other?
* opt-in to public bios
* software carpentry has a large number of instructors and has https://carpentries.org/instructors
* some concern about "yet another place to keep stuff up to date"
* [ ] (ED) document strategies for reproducible environments using conda-forge
* [ ] (UK) Static libraries stuff
* [ ] Add linting hints to builds to find them
* [x] Recommend how to package them -> CFEP-18
* [x] We should write docs saying we don't provide support and this is a bad idea. -> CFEP-18