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###### tags: `Haus Party Live`
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# HAUS Party LIVE! Notes: Season 4 Episode 2 (1/27/2022)

Join us for 🎉 Haus Party Live 🎉 every Thursday at 2pm EST on the [DAOhaus Discord](https://discord.gg/daohaus)

## Notes From the Livestream 🎉

**Topics**
- Main Topic: Should everything be a DAO?

**Hosts & Guests**
- Felipe, dekanbro, Vanilladelphia.eth, vengist
- Audience guests

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🌱 Welcome to our metaphorical, infinite garden! 🌱

## Everything DAOs
- If we could push a button and make everything into a DAO, should we?
- Asking some questions:
- What is the purpose of DAOs?
- Why/why not use a DAO?
- There are different definitions of a DAO, which then leads to questions like *what kind* of DAO?
- DAOs can be used for *extractive* purposes or they can be organizations of humans who are *coordinating* so we'll want to investigate this question
- The more organizations that are out there that are coordinated and not under control of any centralized power the better, but this doesn't equate to saying the word "DAO"
- *How* are they DAOing? Are they just including "DAO" in their names?
- Every organization should be *coordinated, not controlled*
- Is it only for people who "get it" or are we aiming for wide appeal?
- Aiming to convert every organization into a DAO could be seen as a marketing pitch, but there is still room for many DAOs in the future of work and organization

### DAOs and Organisms
- Alan Watts lecture on identity and privacy: [Alan Watts: Future of Privacy and Human Organization](https://www.organism.earth/library/document/future-of-privacy-and-human-organization)
- As tech gets better we can copy things better (such as ourselves!) and if we copy ourselves, are we *still ourselves*?
- This does happen organically through our cell processes
- DAOs should also have this aspect -- Mission, members, and ideas evolve and recycling itself, and if this can't be part then it's not a DAO
- If the responsibility is all put on one person, they will need to always be there
- If there aren't routes for paths for folks to be replaced then it's *not evolving around itself* and it's not a DAO
- 🌱 "A DAO yesterday is going to look a lot different than a DAO tomorrow." 🌱
- Everyone inside is an individual, but the DAO becomes individual as well and it's cells are the members that are recreating and recycling
- New members -> fresh perspectives and can move into leadership
- Reproduction and replication -> forks (see last week show notes)
- What is a DAO:
- 🌱 "Having a way for that core nucleus to recycle itself into something different." 🌱
- Keeping the power accountable and challengable is key

### Communities and Moderatorss
- Relationship between community members and moderatorss is an interesting power dynamic
- Referencing the subreddit */antiwork* drama -- what does it mean if the community can't remove moderatorss?
- Moderators have overarching power to greatly impact the conversation and forums (such as a subreddit) but in a DAO the community *can* remove the mods through the built in processes
- 🌱 "Being able to fork in a trustless way captures a DAO" 🌱
- Being able to flip the switch from a community governance standpoint and be able to take partial/shared ownership
- DAOs can also be a catch-all term for organizations that we're trying to describe ourselves in
- 🌱 "DAOs are structures that can evolve and continue to evolve in perpetuity." 🌱
- Introducing new actors, new agents, and new contributors

## DAOists Together
- DAOists all together not just a singular DAO and looking at what happens between them
- *Autopoiesis*
- 🌱 "Transitory wrappers for human organization." 🌱
- System lives in individuals interacting and not just the DAO itself
- Correlation of DAOs to natural systems such as the human body
- *Autopoiesis* more often linked to cybernetic systems
- Need to recognize that DAOs are still technology
- 🌱 "DAOs are *human-synthetic fabrications that facilitate new ways of coordinating* but ultimately it's up to the people to make decisions about *how* they're going to coordinate." 🌱
- *Sympoiesis* concept and philosopher Donna Haraway:
- Instead of orienting around autoregenerative and auto self-maintenance systems, we need to orient more toward *building with* each other to build structures that are conceptually and physically larger than the parts
- Promise that DAOs offer is that they expand beyond shackles and encumberances that we've put on ourselves throughout the evolution of human civilization
- Establishing a bond outside of existing structures, but what is this bond and how do we measure it?

### DAO Contributors and Organization
- Are there different relationship types?
- Are you following a DAO to get updates? Are you highly aligned through a staking mechanic?
- The flow of talent between DAOs is an interesting link:
- Collaborators putting effort into one DAO and then cycling to another -- organizations aligning through contributors working *across* several communities -> network effect
- Natural alignment as contributors move between DAOs and contribute
- *Why would we be competing?* if someone is in both DAOs there could be a natural link that is outside of competition
- There is occasionally a divergence between users and people building and contributing
- By default, most DAOs are open-source organizations (to a certain degree) in order to coordinate properly -- this lends to the cross-pollination across DAOs
- [Matan Field: Anti rival, Collaborative Networks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZiHSjRATR0)
- Incentive in traditional, hierarchical systems is to hide as much as possible from the consumer and creating opaqueness
- Leads to a state of fear instead of generosity
- Value add of ETH and DAOs is to incentivize people to open the production process and invite collaboration

### Individuals and Privacy
- We tend to lose a lot by keeping secrets
- How do we be sure to preserve individual privacy?
- We should strive to preserve privacy within organizations but there is also a need for openness
- Being open lowers coordination cost whereas going private increases coordination cost
- **Audience member UI369 on stage:**
- *Game B*: [Game B Wiki](https://www.gameb.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Game B rewards collaboration instead of competition
- Rewards collaboration and giving things away
- Will be taken care of *if* I collaborate and give things away
- [An Initiation to Game B](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_cyCuCKQhs)
- Gets into game theory: How do we bring up the whole?
- Moving away from organizations stemming from the top-down brain of a CEO
- Begin feeling the personality of the organization emerge
- [Egregore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore)
- Emergent behavior coming out of the organization that's beyond any certain individual
- **TravisWyche**: Questioning the organism metaphor:
- Competitive game theory built into the Darwinian perspective that we should be aware of and question
- Top-down empirical approach from the scientific approach itself
- As correlated to game theory (which is a keystone of the crypto and DAO community) we have the same obligation to question the theories that are assumptions are based upon
- Ther e are different kinds of games:
- Games where people are competing, but there are also games that are designed to be broken
- There are games about games that become meta-governance levels
- There are larger games that we are embedded within: nation states, economy, simulations and simulacras of capitalism [Baudrillard: Simulacra and Simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation)
- DAOs won't necessarily break free from this unless we take ownership over the underlying game structures
- How to take accountability for mobilizing these DAO tools not for business as usual ("every business becomes a DAO") but for an alternative
- Alternative to the way that we imagine and the metaphors and the composable 🌱 "Legos of our imagination" 🌱
- 🌱 "We need new language for collective hero's journies." 🌱
- [Hero's Journey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey)
- Cooperation and Competition -- polarity and spectrum between these
- Trauma from running into people playing Game A within well-crafted Game B aesthetics
- DAOs allow for challenging this and the systems that we build every day allow for creating alternatives and creating philosophies around the new ideas, but *do we know what DAOs are good for*?
- **UI369**: Game B principles can be weaponized for Game A purposes -- still need to have a bit of a rivalrous attitude and not let guard down
- DAO design has similar rules like game design
- What do we all do with the game mechanisms?
- **TravisWyche**: 🌱 "Unless we all let our guard down together. We don't need to improve competition if we all forfeit collectively. There's a lot of conversation about all that DAOs offer us, but there's also an important component of personal sacrifice. We have all sacrificed a lot to be here working together to imagine experimental alternatives." 🌱

## DAO Narratives
- DAO narrative has changed over the last 6 months or so, and will it continue to change? What if it changes into something we don't resonate with?
- Do we need to be more on the defensive/offensive about "What is a DAO?" and the purposes of DAOs
- There is another angle about being able to shape the narrative
- What if DAOs continue to change into something we don't agree with? Do we change our name or do we offensively try to change the narrative?
- This is something to be mindful of and cautious about
- How do you stop this type of behavior?
- Game A option and Game B option
- Game B option needs to provide more value than the Game A option, but there is a very real concern with marketing and current influence
- *Do things differently*
- See this in the contributor space too -- folks who speak the loudest often get attention
- Generally looking at what's *built in the bear market* vs. what's *being showcased in a bull market* is an interesting contrast
- What ways do we protect ourselves from *brand dilution*?
- Since things are open, how do we defend against this in a Game B approach?
- Point to whatever truths we have to rely on -- the pillars and values that we stand on

## Coodination and Open Information
- Being open adds overhead
- To be open and document what you're doing and to have it understandable adds overhead as compared to something private
- Comparing to open source software: Having (and maintaining) solid documentation, best practices, contribution guides, etc. is similar situation that adds overhead
- Self-organizing complex systems (which a DAO is to an extent) in that it's organized by inflow and outflow
- Why to grow? Why not to grow? Is it possible to stay in stasis? Is it true that everything not growing is dying?
- Thinking about scaling intentionally instead of scaling to strictly drive profits up
- In groups of people who are coordinating, they likely only need to scale the organization enough to keep coordinating
- Sometimes mission grows and an organization needs to grow and expand to accomplish that mission
- Everybody staying smaller -- change the relationships to scaling and growth
- There is a force in the universe giving weight to Game B in the long-term -- it's the game that wins over time
- Will confront us in this era -- the impact on natural resources and having limited resources in a world where there is a focus on infinite growth
- There *are* limitations to resources in the natural world
- DAO space is an opportunity to work *together* and *within* ecosystems they're operating in
- **e2t**: 🌱 "The overhead benefits those that come next." 🌱
- **Equilibrium over growth.**
- Antifragility and purposeful and intentionality

## Where Should We Go With DAOs?
- **Audience member (name not added yet)**:
- DAOs in terms of power relations and structures
- Traditionally we have notions of power and hierarchy
- DAOs give us the ability to organize in collectives to do things that are good for society at large
- Idea of mutual aid that sits at the bedrock of the differences between Game A and Game B
- DAOs are opportunity to change minds and redirect civilization, but at the end of the day, technology aside, it's about the people
- 🌱 "DAOs are a tool for us to be able to coordinate, but it still requires the intention from the individuals that are part of the community." 🌱

## Resources
- [Alan Watts: Future of Privacy and Human Organization](https://www.organism.earth/library/document/future-of-privacy-and-human-organization)
- [Matan Field: Anti rival, Collaborative Networks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZiHSjRATR0)
- [Baudrillard: Simulacra and Simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation)
- [Cory Doctorow: Walk Away](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkaway_(Doctorow_novel))
- [Hero's Journey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey)
- [David Graeber: Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology](https://abahlali.org/files/Graeber.pdf)