W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly

Present

Announcements

Meetings

  • W3C Solid Community Group Calendar.
  • W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines.
  • No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
  • Join queue to talk.
  • Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed.

Participation and Code of Conduct

Scribes

  • Jeff Waters
  • Wouter Termont

Introductions

  • name: text

Topics

Previous Meeting

URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/blob/main/meetings/2022-11-30.md

  • SC: Consensus both proposing and how we accept them. We have prior consent, previous minutes are PR'd, once reviewed, we have approval but we link to acknowledge that to review or to raise objection to any part of prior meetings. Some concerns or comments, this is your chance. We acknowledge that. I'll pause if you have something to say. (none)

Current Meeting

URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/489

  • SC: Proposed agenda.
  • SC: Proposed agenda is here. Quick summary, once we have consent, we can get to the body of the topics, and with that we can adjust the topics or add new ones and so on. So today, we have lightweight. maybe agenda, one topic is on W3C Calendar, just about receiving notifications about community events, this is weekly but other calls, WebID-Profile, all the panel meetings, notifications is up now. Once we have agreement on other meetings, we'll put them up on the agenda. Most people are getting the notifications.
  • SC: We'll have time to talk about special topics, and we have topic of draft working group charter on Solid.

W3C Calendar

URL: https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar

  • SC: If you are not receiving notifications or updates, like when I update the event, you should be getting this from W3C, if not, let me know or review your own preferences, the steps are:
  • SC: Email notifications of group events are enabled by default. Check settings:
    1. Login
    2. My Calendar
    3. Preferences
    4. Check the box "Receive email notifications of events to which my groups are invited".
  • SC: The announcements about the agenda are in the Gitter chat, as well as the PR. I'll pause if anyone has comments.
  • PA: (muted)
  • MB: I was wondering if it was possible to create one event that is recurring rather than so many notifications?
  • SC: When the event is created and recurring, … you will not get notification for recurring events unless the particular event is updated.
  • MB: Ok. I'm wondering if that is what is happening, I receive too many of them.
  • SC: In order to include agenda in event calendar, I do need to update it.
  • WT: To clarify the same.
  • PA: I confirm I receive multiple notifications, I assumed cause I wear multiple hats, but maybe there is a problem here. There is also the possibility to register to your calendar, interim ics stream, that would be my advice.
  • …: Also another question, a number of panel meetings indicated in calendar, I don't participate in any, on the one hand, value in awareness of what is happening in community group, on the other, might be overwhelming and things get lost that are not. There is the possibility to create task forces to group, assigning things to dedicated task forces rather than to the whole group might be appropriate. I see pros and cons and information overload. It might require privilege but I'm willing to create task forces if desired.
  • SC: Thank you for you feedback. You might have a closer look at events. If we might isolate some of those, depending on the participants, that would be good. I do get a lot of notifications, so I don't know what is happening on W3C's end. Can I follow up, PA?
  • PA: No problem.
  • eP: I can support separating the meetings. We have the joined calendar that groups all events in a single place, ,so we can have both.
  • SC: I put together an ics for ll community events we have on Solid.
  • MB: Related to the calendar. Given that Wouter and Pavlik have expressed interest in authorization, and you (SC) have mentioned adding the authorization panel bi-weekly meeting on those weeks where interop panel is not happening.
  • SC: As you like. We can do that offline.
  • eP: Interop panel moved to Monday, not Tuesday now.
  • MB: We could potentially have authz, authn and interop alternating on Monday.
  • SC: Any other comments on this? (none)

Special Topic Meetings

  • SC: Wanted to kick-off sporadic meetings with dedicated topics. We can have one on Use Cases next and perhaps a monthly/quarterly for an Introduction to the Solid CG.
  • SC: These meetings can be at times different than the CG Weekly Call.
  • SC: I want to introduce this special topic meetings, one is use cases generally speaking, follow-up from prior meetings and the next is introduction to Solid CG who is new and wants to learn. And we can have other special topics, on implementation level and so on. We'll see what's useful to everyone. Think about special topics you would like to propose.

Use Cases

URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/488

  • SC: Follows action https://github.com/solid/specification/blob/main/meetings/2022-11-23.md#use-cases.
  • SC: Scheduled for 2022-12-14 (same time next week) but can be another datetime.
  • SC: The purpose of this is to focus on reviewing existing material that we have for use cases, to identify areas to improve to integrate use cases into what we do. This is not intended to discuss specific use cases, rather to discuss the process, to help with discovery and participants' concern about how we take use cases into account for spec development. This is a meeting about that and to improve that work, scheduled at this same time next week. So special topic on that.
  • JW: A couple of interesting things came up when talking about this. It seems that sometimes on groups we should be working more directly with the users. It seems that the person last time wanted more a direct group to interact with. That seems to be a perspective different from what we usually take.
  • SC: If we cannot factor it in there for a task force that is interested, we'll see.
  • TBL: Solid ecosystem is complex and the protocol is a very generic protocol. We do keep track of the verticals in which we expect this to be: generic apps but also specific verticals. We're interested in input to add more things to it.
  • …: https://solidproject.solidcommunity.net/Verticals/Roadmap/index.ttl#this
  • TBL: There is this history of the community thinking about this. A list of verticals. The way this works is that things… People working about Solid code, we got people working on media, there is a project around fitness; there's a few things like issues trackers… there is an awful lot of things you expect to be in the project, a list of plans we have not yet committed to, a goal people have to meet for, government benefits, banking etc, and a lot of smaller things. Certainly there are things not on here. You can click on the pencil to put pointers to projects; let us know and we can all link it. Verticals are use cases for the Solid protocol. If you have use cases, they will be within these verticals.
  • SC: Those are all very good inputs for next week. We should prepare to gather that input. To pool some of the ideas; its good to have some institutional knowledge. Whether we're testing use cases or improving experience… I would like to update the agenda with the link you shared.
  • eP: I'll try to join the meeting. I think we can find some very common core scenario's, where we make some kind of assumptions, for example assuming users finding filesystem intuitive. In some of the panels we lean towards the user having the user have access policies managed in one place but also other approaches consider letting any app set access policies. All things considering user access policies, are good cases to look into user experience verticals.
  • SC: Its important to have a group reviewing use cases to make sure they take into account ethical aspects. The idea was to have a clear understanding of this so that it can be carried forward over the lifetime of this work.
  • …: Other ideas, questions or wishes? We explored this, and I especially want to know whether there are objections to having such a meeting. We will keep the PR open until the meeting. (no objections, quiet consent)

Solid CG Introduction

  • SC: An orientation to the CG for anyone that's new to the CG or want to learn more details about:
    • the mission/goals;
    • how we work and how you can participate;
    • links and explanations of important items;
    • overview of work items and how to create a new work item.
  • SC: Date and time to be determined.
  • SC: Anyone is welcome to join the call, whether member of the Solid CG or not.
  • SC: Next topic is the solid community group introduction. Group is changing, people don't always know, they jump in but don't know where to start or whether group is for them, how much to get involved. Orientation meeting every quarter or month, and to give an overview of work and take questions and help with answers, goals, how to participate, links to stuff and how to create work items.
  • TBL: I worry presenting with all the details of the group would be boring for new members.
  • eP: +1
  • TBL: Largely written down, so I'd be more interested in getting members to go around table and say what they are looking for, so as group changes, we get people talking to each other rather than just listening, as well. Start by taking questions.
  • SC: I think both can happen. I know the credentials community group has recurring introductions and people find it useful and it's optional. So guests considering to join can have a look at that. (another thumbs up appears) There is also quite a barrier cause so much material, people don't know where to start. But good point that having a round table to figure out how we can improve or what's missing is a good idea. I'd like to hear more on this.
  • VB: +1
  • JW: As a relatively new user, I think the categories are the tools, the website, the github; then when I read a spec, I see so many links to other documents … so much that getting up to speed is a yearlong process. It is not unexpected, but it is not easy, it is daunting. So a tutorial, primer, or those kind of things are what one looks for . If you use tools like HackMD daily, it works, but it is challenging to get up to speed as a newcomer.
  • WT: +1
  • SC: You would find an orientation useful.
  • JW: Yes, but trying to describe everything might be a little overwhelming, so it would be nice if it could just be a small number of steps what you should consider, and join a round table where everyone can introduce themselves. SC, you do a nice job explaining that to newcomers.
  • SC: There is always something to improve. Let's put some time in this. Suggestions can still be made to the format, of course.
  • SC: Any objection to having this special topic meeting?
  • TH: In Digita it should help to having a getting starter guides, and links to the technologies involved, so that people new to Solid could read those.
  • VB: All these topics tie into something I suggested for the use cases meeting, although there I suggested it for other reasons, as an example of gathering data about use cases/any topics (PR: https://github.com/solid/specification/pull/488)
  • …: A lot of the suggestions you are all making were also mentioned in the Community Survey by many participants: to have more resources to help people where to find information, a list of tutorials/documents/resources we have and what would go in there.
  • SC: Thank you. I will put this together and propose an agenda.

Add draft W3C Working Group charter for Solid

URL: https://github.com/solid/process/pull/315

  • SC: I note that the author of the PR is not present to take up the issue. But in this topic we don't need to make decisions but acknowledge this PR. So I'll pause and let anyone they would like to share about the work or thoughts.
  • eP: What I would find useful is to clarify the scope further, for me in general good to look at the TR and drafts there and if any drafts fit under the charter, good overview of looking at all drafts and which would be submission to charter and working group and which left in the CG. https://solidproject.org/TR/
  • PA: +1
  • WT: +1
  • MB: +1
  • SC: Good feedback. Anyone else?
  • HS: Any link to the final view, github requires pause HTML, is there a published version?
  • SC: No, but HTML preview. You don't have a visualizer? /s
  • SC: Something we can look at separately offline.
  • MB (chat): You could use an HTML preview tool, for example htmlpreview.
  • WT: We should not tackle this but problem with all the specs, not just the PR versions, not available in a nice format. That's true, but the working group draft is really good, the text reads fluently, but as eP said, it's not concrete in certain points.
  • SC: Thanks for sharing. Any other comments? Or additional announcements with the remaining 7 minutes?
  • SC: Next week's special meeting on use cases and make change requests to the agenda. Or if preference for a different day, let me know.
  • eP: I apologize for coming back, support for the draft which ones fit charter and which not, how would be the best step for doing that or should I come up with something to communicate which things would fit under charter for existing drafts?
  • SC: The PR is the central place for that conversation, request changes or make comments or reach out to the author or director.
  • WT: I think there is at least one or two places in draft where key aspects are listed, he could add links to whatever specs we want to take with us there. That would be an idea.
  • eP: Thanks. I'll follow up.
  • SC: Any other comments? Proposals for topics are important. We are co-creating the work here and owning it ourselves. Although I am primary facilitator of agenda, the group owns it, so if we approve that's how we are going forward. So if there are pressing matters I missed or of interest, let me know. Thanks everyone for attending.
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