# W3C Solid Community Group: W3C TPAC 2023

* Date: 2023-09-11T15:00:00Z
* Call: Instructions are restricted to W3C users. You need to [log in](https://auth.w3.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fevents%2Fmeetings%2F3d93d256-f017-48c6-a509-9bd089a714e3%2F) to see them.
* Chat: TPAC Zoom chat
* Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification
* Status: Draft

## Present
* [Sarven Capadisli](https://csarven.ca/#i)
* [Matthias Evering](https://solidweb.me/testpro/)
* [Virginia Balseiro](https://virginiabalseiro.com/#me)
* Laurens Debackere (Digitaal Vlaanderen)
* Wouter Termont
* [Pierre-Antoine Champin](https://solid.champin.net/pa/profile/card#me) (Inria, W3C)
* [elf Pavlik](https://elf-pavlik.hackers4peace.net)
* Yen-Lin Huang (moda, Taiwan)
* Osmar Olivo (Inrupt)
* John Riviello
* Andrei Ciortea (Univ. St Gallen, Inria) co-chair WebAgents CG
* Tom Haegemans (Digita)
* Chunming Hu (W3C)
* [Ege Korkan (Siemens AG)](https://github.com/egekorkan/)
* [Fabien Gandon](http://fabien.info), [Inria](http://inria.fr) (FG)
* [Cristiano Aguzzi](https://team.vaimee.com/cristiano/) (IE)
* Michiel de Jong
* Aaron Coburn
* Ruben Verborgh
* Minyong Li
* Rem Collier (University College Dublin) co-chair WebAgents CG
* Wei Ding
* Hadrian Zbarcea
* Jean-Yves Rossi
* Joaquin Salvachua
* Geun-Hyung Kim
* [Ted Thibodeau](https://github.com/TallTed/) (OpenLinkSw.com) (he/him)
* Bert Bos (W3C)
* Edwin Leong
* Grace
* Chein L.
* Martin Alvarez
* Mia
* Dongwoo
* Dörthe Arndt
* Philippe Le Hégaret (W3C)
* Cristiano Aguzzi (co-chair W3C WoT)
* Brian Kim (?)
* Alex C
* Tim Berners-Lee
* Jay
* Nicoletta Fornara (Università della Svizzera italiana, Lugano, Switzerland) (co-chair W3C ODRL)

---

## Announcements

### Meeting Recordings and Transcripts
* No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
* Join queue to talk.

### Participation and Code of Conduct
* [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/)
* [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct](https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/)
* Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome.
* If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself.

### Scribes
* Virginia

---

## Topics

### Overview

* SC: This meeting is intended to be an information session about the CG.
* SC: Meeting runs until 16:30 UTC (18:30 CET). 10 minute break at 15:50 UTC (17:50 CET).
* SC: Open agenda after the break. Proposals welcome at the bottom of the agenda.

### Henry Story
URL: https://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me

>Standards are like wine

* SC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iZPJBpI2Po
* SC: We lost Henry last week. Originally wanted to observe a moment of silence but I figured Henry has something to share. This is a video Henry put together in 2010. Afterwards, if anyone would like to say some words, that would be great for the family.
* SC: Hope this demo by Henry motivates others to create demos.
* MdJ: I remember this presentation. It's a sad loss. Thanks Henry.
* eP: I wrote a few words on the mailing list, I'd like to encourage everyone to join that thread. I linked a video to the presentation MdJ mentioned. I had the chance to meet Henry in person. He was a great guy. This is very sad. It's good to take inspiration and continue his work. Presentation starts at 22:25 http://web.archive.org/web/20110725215428/http://d-cent.org/video/fsw2011-4jun11-2-W3C-Architecture.mp4
* SC: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-solid/2023Sep/0006.html
* TBL: Henry was an incredible person. If you think back to all the things he's been enthusiastic about it was all kinds of different things. He was passionate and persistent. He put together that demo because he kept going. He was also always driven by values.
* FG: Looking back at my inbox, I had so many exchanges with Henry on so many different subjects. Henry was a true thinker without frontiers and a brilliant interdisciplinary researcher bridging ideas and theories across domains. I will miss those exchanges.
* SC: Regarding continuous work that he had:
* SC: HttpSig: https://github.com/solid/authentication-panel/pull/235 , https://github.com/bblfish/httpSig

### CG Meetings
URL: https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar

* SC: The [W3C Solid calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar) includes weekly meetings and [Special Topic Meetings](https://github.com/solid/specification/discussions/555).
* SC: Everyone is welcome to join, including but not limited to contributors to technical reports, implementers, product owners, and end-users.

### Introductions
* SC: Round of optional intros.

### Break(dance)
* SC: ..for 10 minutes.

### Solid Project
* SC:
>The aims of the Solid project are in line with those of the Web itself: empowerment towards “an equitable, informed and interconnected society” [ethical-web-principles](https://www.w3.org/TR/ethical-web-principles/). Solid adds to existing Web standards to realise a space where individuals and communities can maintain their autonomy, control their data and privacy, and choose applications and services to fulfill their needs.
* SC: There will be time after we get through the agenda for discussions.
* SC: There are countless interpretations and ways of expressing the project. I'd like TBL to share your vision in 1 minute.
* TBL: I just gave a keynote about solid in WeAreDevelopers conf in Berlin. ??? Web 2.0 has JavaScript and changes the way ??? works. Since then people have been ??? Solid is like having your own website: you can share things, put your music. Vision of Solid is the whole spectrum from private to public stuff, access control.

### CG Charter
URL: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/

* SC: Announced in [public-solid mailing list](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-solid/2023Sep/0005.html).
>The charter underwent a thorough and extensive review and received widespread support from CG participants.
>Thank you to everyone who contributed their time, knowledge, and passion to improve the charter through constructive discussions and collaboration.

<details>
<summary>More details about the CG Charter Review</summary>
<ul>
<li>66 days under review.</li>
<li>22 participants.</li>
<li>222 (🦆🦆🦆) conversations.</li>
<li>28 commits integrating feedback from the reviews, meetings, and elsewhere.</li>
<li>18 reviews and approvals.</li>
<li>4 thumbs-ups and 2 thumbs-downs emoji reactions on the original comment. Various exciting emojis throughout the PR.</li>
</ul>
</details>

#### Scope
URL: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/#scope

* SC: Work items are intended to be compatible with or extend the [Architecture of the World Wide Web](https://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/).
* SC: Essentially covering topics on protocols for the storage, authentication, authorization, notifications, data/service interoperability, and various aspects of identification and profiles, test suite / [QA](https://solidproject.org/ED/qa). Primers, use cases and requirements, and other documents are also covered.
* SC: [Out of scope](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/#out-of-scope) is generally anything not directly listed in the scope such as merits of various theories; marketing/evangelising tech not intended to be released under a license compatible with W3C specifications; work items that have transitioned to a deliverable of an active WG.

#### Work Items
URL: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/#work-items

* SC: [Current work items](https://solidproject.org/TR/#work-items).
* SC: [Process for new work items](https://github.com/solid/specification/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#work-items).

#### Chairs
URL: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/charter/#chairs

* SC: We'll start the chair election process soon.
* SC: [Self-Review Questionnaire for Chair Candidates](https://github.com/solid/specification/discussions/568). Please add your own considerations to the list.
* SC: I have an announcement. I have been chairing since 2019, 4 years. Honored to serve the CG all this time, but happy to pass on the torch and let other people have fun with it. In the next weeks I will help the CG with election process and transition, I will not be staying on as a chair and not running. Thank you to everyone. I will still be in the group and chime in with whatever I can. Hopefully the group will continue on the right direction as we have had in the past few years.
* *room applauds*
* LD: Thank you Sarven.

### Proposed W3C Charter: Solid Working Group (until 2023-10-06/07)
URL: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-new-work/2023Sep/0007.html
* SC: Currently under AC review. Next steps are improving the charter to make sure we can deliver on our promises.

### Questions / open discussion

* AC: There's currently a proposed WG under review from AC. Review process started last week. We have until 6th of October. For those who are AC reps feel free to talk to us if you have questions. If you're interested in being involved, we'd be delighted to talk about what interests you about Solid.
* ??: How do you see a relationship between CG and WG?
* AC: CG has been involved with Solid for years, touches on Protocol, Authorization, etc. Lot of this work has been incubated. WG proposes to take it and formalize it and see it as a continuous progression that continues to evolved, incubated and matured in CG and formalized in WG. CG will still have a significant role.
* LD: Agree, CG will come up with solutions and WG as a ground for formalization, so we can come to a Solid Protocol that is stable and mature.
* MdJ: Solid Test Suite panel, under Sarven's lead has been formalized into Solid QA document. I'll be volunteering to continue test suite work in the context of WG.
* PAC: I will be the team contact for the WG when it is created. One important point for a recommendation is that there are two independent implementations of each feature. Emphasis on having proper test suites is important from the WG and we can inherit this from the CG.
* SC: One clarification: the context is the deliverables. It's not any topic the WG works on. There's a fixed date for the group to deliver the work. There's a list of work items passed on / transitioned from CG to WG, and that's what the group will focus on, including tests for that work. WG is not the place to introduce new un-incubated work, that's the CG's work. It's possible to introduce new deliverables if time allows, and whether it's within scope. Besides that, as long as there's incubation it can be introduced, otherwise it's up to the CG to look into solutions.
* TBL: WG could pick up stuff that has been incubated somewhere else, and CG could pass on stuff to a different WG.
* LD: There will be dialogue between CG and WG and other groups mentioned in the charter.
* SC: WG has a fixed date. The charter could be re-chartered but typically if WG completes its work and project is ongoing, the CG picks up on that work. It's possible CG will look into next versions. Cases in the past, e.g., Credentials, Annotation.
* ??: Can you maybe elaborate a bit on what the Solid Protocol contains?
* TBL: Web 1.0 was HTTP, HTML, CSS and RDF for data and other things; a static Web, if you wish. Web 2.0 added JavaScript and web APIs to have option to write web apps that are dynamic. Typical architecture is communication between app and server of a single provider (e.g. FaceBook). There is no interoperability in 2.0. In 3.0 instead of having users login with for example Google, you can login with Solid.
* ??: So the SSO part is based on existing protocols?
* TBL: Yes. Solid OIDC is authentication; there is also authorization etc.
* ??: But there is also Solid Protocol? What does it add?
* LD: Solid Protocol is an overarching spec.
* TBL: Using HTTP, Websockets etc. in a particular way that works together towards ???. Solid Protocol is the name for their integration.
* ??: Can you also use the parts separate?
* TBL: ???
* SC: Certain things are within scope of CG that will take on Solid Protocol or extended specs. Protocol iss not trying to redo everything. A lot of it taps into things that already exist.
* SC: Introduction section to Solid Protocol gives an overview of what it is. I'd like to ask you to try and see if it answers your question. If not, this is good for us to edit/re-edit.
* SC: https://solidproject.org/TR/protocol#introduction
* ??: Are you reinventing the Web in one WG? That in itself seems problematic.
* TBL: ???

## Closing comments

* SC: Everyone's invited to join the community group. These are great questions that help us revisit. Thanks everyone for joining. I'm sure and hope folks in person will continue the discussion over vegan food and enjoy the rest of TPAC. There are interesting breakout topics including chartering.