# Meeting 25 October 2021

## About

During these meetings, we will be conforming to [The Carpentries Code of Conduct](https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html).

**Regular calls: 4th Monday of the month, 16:00-17:00 UK time (BST or GMT)**

**Meeting details are shared via [local-uk mailing list](https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/local-uk) and [The Carpentries community calendar](https://carpentries.org/community/#community-events).**

**Community's HackMD workspace: https://hackmd.io/team/local-uk?nav=overview**
**Previous meetings: https://hackmd.io/V3ReKkEESzqyCNxWJdulOw#Meetings**

## Meeting Minutes
**Time:** 16:00-17:00 UK

**Location:** Zoom URL: https://zoom.us/j/95360073649

**Chair:** David Perez Suarez

**Timekeeper:** Mario

**Notetaker:** Phil

### Agenda
0. Assign notetaker & timekeeper
1. Sign in & ice-breaker
2. Review of actions from last time
1. Owl: carry forward
2. Teaching Git with SSH: carry forward (David to do it next Wednesday)
3. ALL: Look at [Carpentries Incubator](https://carpentries.org/community-lessons/), see what is there, feed back on these.
4. [Call for future speakers](https://hackmd.io/@local-uk/rkkzBTLOd)
4. Announcements
1. [SSI's monthly training round up](https://software.ac.uk/news/monthly-training-roundup) - contact [Aleks](mailto:[e-mail]) with updates
1. [SSI Fellowship call open](https://software.ac.uk/programmes-and-events/fellowship-programme) - Deadline: 31 Oct
1. RSLondon Software Carpentry workshop - Dates TBD. Looking for helpers.
6. Guest speaker - Nilani Ganeshwaran, University of Manchester / Library Carpentry
7. Instructor Training checkout questions
8. Wrap-up/AOB

### Sign-in

Name/pronoun if you like/ institution / "(checkout)" if you are here for the Instructor Training checkout

1. Anna-Maria Sichani| she/her/ University of Sussex | SSI [e-mail] (checkout)
2. David Pérez-Suárez / he-him / UCL /
3. Phil Reed / he-him / University of Manchester
4. Nilani Ganeshwaran / she, her / University of Manchester
5. Graham Blyth /he-him / University of Leeds
6. Ed Bennett / Swansea University
7. Sarah Jaffa / she / UCL
8. Mario Antonioletti/ he-him/ University of Edinburgh
9. Juan Herrera / he-him / EPCC, The University of Edinburgh
10. Alexander Konovalov / he-him / University of St Andrews
11. Agnes Cameron / she-her / Knowledge Futures Group - Innovation Information Initiative (checkout)
...

### Notes

#### 1 Ice breaker
Something you are doing to help the climate. (Something small)

#### 2 Review of actions

1. Owl (camera):
- delayed due to illness
2. Teaching Git with SSH:
- David found it to be awful, next time do SSH keys before workshop.
- Agnes: Depends whether it is included as a prior step before workshop, depends how comportable they are with command line, could be incredibly intimidating. Showing someone the process still would demystify it but suggest they do something else in the workshop (not an option any more). Also need to repeat if they are not using the same computer.
- Ed: similarly, took 20-30 minutes longer to get through that section. Can't do as pre-workshop step since they haven't done the shell lesson yet.
- Graham: didn't work when putting the keys in anywhere but the default location., ie there are other things which could go wrong. Need much clearer, simpler instructions if we can. (OpenSSH only looks in .ssh directory unless instructed.) Instruction could be clearer here.
- Anna Maria: Has tried Library Carpentry GIT lesson. Some parts may look a bit fragile. Major issue is around the text editors (choice of which editor). Quite an active lesson. SSH keys section on this lesson looks a bit obscure and disproportionate to the length of the entire lesson.
- Others:
4. ALL: Look at [Carpentries Incubator](https://carpentries.org/community-lessons/), see what is there, feed back on these.
5. [Call for future speakers](https://hackmd.io/@local-uk/rkkzBTLOd)

#### 3 Guest speaker - Nilani Ganeshwaran, University of Manchester / Library Carpentry

Introduction from Nilani, in digital development team at the University of Manchester Library.
Work closely with librarians. Successful fund application in "Investing in Success" to run workshops in 2018 and 2019. Publications with CILIP (professional body).

Digital skills help librarians with day job

Ran series of workshops in 2021 over the summer online (one SWC, one LC, one DC).
Learning not integrated into practice.
The process works better in US and Australia, more integrated.

##### Topic 1: How to plan an effective workshop

- (Not so much the content of the workshop, more about the setting, pre/post)
- Using the preworkshop survey more effectively.
- Can be useful for reflection in advance, what will be useful in the workshop, what is my current familiarity with a tool... good for the learner as well as the instructor.
- Lead needs to make time to look at the results and share with other instructors.
- Disparity between what learners think they want to learn and what they would actually find useful (eg I won't need shell, then see it, then think I would find it useful)/ These are tasters of what they could learn.
- Support afterwards is more important.
- Would use cases be helpful, how librarians are using these skills? Students sharing their stories (doesn't have to be a formal use case), 'I use this thing for this' connects to their work... But what about during/after the lesson?
- [Add your points here]

##### Topic 2: How to increase participants' engagement during a workshop

- Telling stories from suitable helpers or past learners.
- Tell people we need these to use in the future. Could store in etherpad but then take out later.
- Or ask them to send video clips.
- Suggest real data they have used. Walk through real example. But can get in a tangle with that!
- Ask as part of ice breaker what has worked before/been useful.
- Pushing librarians who may be working very traditionally may find it challenging.
- Emphasis on what the workshop leader is saying about why we are learning something, rather than the step of steps you are taking. Material is engaging enough but could push more on 'why'. OpenRefine is easier, some of the others are tougher to give external inspiring content.
- [Add your points here]

##### Topic 3: How to help participants integrate learning into practice after a workshop

- As instructors, we need to invest our time.
- Pairing people up with someone (maybe from another place).
- Collaborative space for discussions? (Like Slack for instructors, but for learners.)
- [Add your points here]
- Provide time limited after sales support so, if they have any questions they should get in touch via email.
- Something that we have provided at the end of session is a surgery - get people to bring their own problems/data and provide support at the end of the session but you need to reserve time for this and you may not have the expertise to solve the particular problem (in which case you can act as a conduit for someone else to look at the problem).

#### 4 Announcements

##### 4.1 [SSI's monthly training round up](https://software.ac.uk/news/monthly-training-roundup)

##### 4.2 [SSI Fellowship call open](https://software.ac.uk/programmes-and-events/fellowship-programme) - Deadline: 31 Oct

##### 4.3 RSLondon Software Carpentry workshop - Dates TBD. Looking for helpers.

#### 5 Instructor Training checkout questions

- Anna Maria: Very useful, now access to preworkshop surveys. Question: how much effort do you put (if any) to accommodate the lessons to the online delivery mode we are currently using?
- Ed: Big topic! Now have a checklist of things to go through at the start eg how to use Zoom, mark yes/no... Rather than run in two day blocks, for health and slower delivery, use 5 half days.
- Phil: similar, but 4 half days. There are Carpentries blog posts with good practice ideas from 2020.
- Mario: can have pre-workshop sessions for installation, can be poor attendance.
- David: it takes a lot of time to prepare for everything. Have someone who is only in charge of Zoom.
- Graham: Have someone dedicated to watching the chat (not the presenter).
- Agnes: Appreciate the relevance these lessons are for LC.

#### 6 Wrap-up/AOB

Next meeting: Monday 22 November 2021 16:00. Call for Chair.: Alex Konovalov has volunteered.

#### Actions

1. OWL camera experience (forwarded)
2. Ed: Git lesson improvements: issue then pull requests required. For SWC and LC.
3. ALL: Add your comments to the guest speaker discussion above.