Notes for day 2: https://hackmd.io/OJwtL1gnScqLv8s4Zl45lA?edit
We believe in open source becuase it
- drives innovation and competition
- lowers barriers to entry of the market
Help us embrace the open source lifestyle
We have the most brilliant people in the room, decision makers not excluded.
OFE is a thinktank with the mission to promote an open and competetive market, including a level playing field for open source
We're pragmatic, we always try to look at these openness acronyms as a means to an end
open source benefits the entire European economy
Open source is proven to be innovative and to work but is not easy and that is why uptake is slow
Individual procurement officers are under a huge amout of pressure
You don't get fired for buying 'X'
You don't get the full benefits of open source if it is just one company
There is open source from Developers, Entrepeneurs, Ecosystem and Industry
Where is public sector in this space? It us?
Open source creates value through positive social externalities
Policy tactics:
Agency, Resilience, and Growth/Flow
(We describe this as control, risk and effectivity)
Address procurement by not asking for the solution, which often rule out OSS, ask for a problem to be solved.
Get people educated in OSS, because people will use/procure what they know.
OSS is not a business model
A threat is that the market place is being muddled by alternative licenses and practices that are not truly open source (like Open core).
Open licenses are not a buearucratic exercise
How to connect open developers who can't figure out how to get funding with donation/procurment which can't figure out how to spend on open things?
Dirk-Willem van Gulik:
aging, unsupported software needs an "attaic", need to be better about it.
Sashiko Muto:
Proprietary has marketing but more importantly has education resources available
Q: Is big companies doing OSS, with lots of paid developers, having an impact on the community and if so, how?
Michiel:
It's not the big companies that are the big threat, it is SaaS.
Apache foundation:
Q: Why is it possible to recieve public funding for something that becomes proprietary?
Pearse:
Michiel: Misses a wikipedia for OSS.
development of hardware needs hardware to produce it; open manufacturing spaces are needed
(fablabs, hackerspaces, makerspaces)
(developing more open hardware in used in these open spaces)
"open source laser cutter" ~5K euro, not 50K similar machine
Also developed 5 axis CNC-mill, and 3d printers, of course
one of the first super computer using linux
FOSS everywhere in from IoT to cloud
What about hardware? especially CPUs/GPUs/ASICs
the barriers of the lower levels being closed has become an inhibitor to innovation
inhibits holistic co-design in HPC
RISC-V in European Processor Initiative
initiave European Loaboratory for Open Computer Architecture
(intersection of academia and industry)
push for OCA by implementing a holistic architecture
European Open Hardware, Architecture Initiave?
bring manufacturing and data together
combine more functionality into one part
AMable - how SMEs can take up additve manufacturing
Must document all the change of data
transactions documented in AMable Blockchain
An Economy Metal Systems is here
Must be able to guarantee the results coming out
microsoft developed open source 3MF 3d format, industrial supported
Would be great to have a "unit test" for the final system. would be fantastic, don't know if that's achievable
Migrate computation to the edge
AI capabilities in the power envelope of 100mili-volts and below
RISC-V, open, free ISA enables an extensible, specializable processor
PULP: Ultra efficient multi processor design
HDL may be open, but EDA companies, Phy IP providers, Foundaries are not open
Greenwaves GAP8 in mass production
OpenTitan, open source Root of Trust solution
fully auditable
Europe needs it's own processors
the most important thing we can do for Open Source Hardware is to educate people
it's a lot more expensive to move atoms than it is to move bits
Open Source Hardware Certification Program:
certificate.oshwa.org
make open hardware and open software eductation an institutional part of our society
bring affordable IoT to african countries
the purpose is not to come to africa and try to sell a product
the whole idea is to really empower local economy, local entrepeneurs
try to provide a oh platform that can be customized and really adapt the solution to their own needs
what you can find in europe in not really adapted to african
highly integrated devices, hard to fix broken parts, increases cost to replace rather than repair
level of integration is low – building blocks that local people can take over
make generic very simple PCBs so people can start building their own IoT devices and enhance it
a lot of hardware is not available in africa, need to stick with very basic hardware
the goal is not to produce a toy, wifi is high energy, can't really deploy
taking all the constraints and the needs of these countries
propose open hardware can run on two AA bateries for 5 years
GPS livestock collar is 10 euro per collar
needs to work without internet access
What is the dream initiative from EC?
most silicon fab is under control of non-EU contries, kill switch from outside EU
need EDA tools examined
Fragmentation in silicon inside RISC-V and others, need paticipatory governance involving industry
Getting a full stack for building a processor is something that we need
encourage standards in the stacks
More opportunities in Europe in the edge; not as much in the cloud
Patents: RISC-V traced all insturctions back to all of their ORIGINIAL patents, all expired, most of which which were over 40 years old.
Maha has made research in OSS communities.
Nurture (and help) are a bit dangerous, it suggests repricocity (ie. you have to give back in some way)
Public sector organizatiosn can invest in the communities by doing a lot of the 'boring work' like documentation and trainings
Being a user (without contributing code or even comments) is still valuable, because you are the user base. You are why there is a need for updates.
Sebastian:
Gamification can be annoying. Github stars drowns out other important notifications on issues.
Github stars don't put food on the table.
Frank Karlitschek:
Nextcloud can only compete with microsoft as a 50 person company because of open source communities
If my company goes away the software will survive
Bastien:
There is a split between the innovators and the maintainers, you see this in the public open source world as well, the innovators often miss the maintainers spirit
It is important to make developers go out in other communities so that they get the open source culture
Maha:
Carlo:
Find a way to solve the problems of paying people to work on open source
Innovation is good copying.
Dirk-Willem:
Don't neccesarily give money to open source, it might create distrust.
Public sector should pay their own staff to contribute to open source projects as we've seen before in the US
Think about the welcoming places public sector can create. Private companies might have a hard time to meet otherwise.
Bastien:
Problems: recruitment and procurement
Possible solutions:
- Document usecases so that it is clear how successes like chat software can be replicated
- Make it clear that people can work on open source in their work
- Sustainability audits of projects and codebases (similar to security audits)
- Better at bottom up surfacing such as the open CAPTCHA system by a small town
- code.europa.eu for all open source in Europe. Started similar in France.
Discussion:
Idea: EC should start talking about the problems and that could be an opportunity for open source solutions rather than wanting specific solutions.
Maha:
Dying communities probably need to die, but let's start reverse forking communities to build new stronger oners.
Bastien:
Legally public bodies can require free software in their procurement, but it is not widely known
The debate about digital soverignity should not be framed by the private sector, it should be framed by the public sector.
Sebastian:
Code written as part of thesis' at public universities should automatically be open source
We need to get them while they're young.
Contribute with digit-oss-strategy@ec.europa.eu
Remark:
During this session there was a polling system used at http://beekast.live/osb2020panel22
There was a bit short of time to vote and unclear announcements on when to vote or add ideas, so the results should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Henry Ford: patent free exchange of information
FOSS: money opportunity: custom feature for your project
Share costs, owned by community
Open Source, you have innovation by design, you need to have innovation to have something to sell
RISC-V - challenge monoply position, gain independance
Require support through whole life-cycle,
we need to encourage open source in call submissions
How can we help individuals to contribute to open source?
Top open source projects have a foundation behind them.
No company can create products without using open source components
Open source is a critical success factor for product and services
Open source software creates access to the competencies and creativity of the entire world
Where is Europe in collaboration in FOSS or Linux Foundation?
We need Open Source toolchains to manage the surrounding processes in product development.
Let's be honest: 80-95% percent of components are open source
Licesnses are not the stumbling block
confidence in software (safety); Don't want BSOD when you press the break pedal
as more and more of the environment is controlled by software, the more important it is to have confidence in software
We would like the EC to be mindful that OS is critical even today
we need to find new ways to be able to have confidence in safety
Safety is important enough that it should be tackled on the European level.
In Italy, we have a law which enforces "Pubic money, public code"
here to provide practical feedback about combining commercial products with FOSS values
challenges:
one common challenge: moving from traditional linear business (supply chain with OEMs suppliers), but this is changing, non-linear buisiness ecosystem
M2M: machine to machine applications, connected devices, systems of systems
open source provides you with a co-creating model cooperation model
Communities like eclipse foundation allow companies to collaborate without invoking non-compete or SEC fears
EC: Time to incentivise open standards and open APIs
It's good to have Open Source, but need access to data too, without NDA
Common pathway for public funded projects to publish their code as open source.
Supply chain tracability
some tooling: software360 and https://www.openchainproject.org/
Open source software certified? for safety? legal framework for creators – allow safe contributions without liability fears
Dirk-Willem van Gulik:
The apache foundation has a cookbook how to organize communities: http://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/
Saranjit Arora:
There are islands of communities in Europe. For a start, we need a list of things.
Anecdote: Bodies in the UN are probably duplicating 80% of the work.
Q: How do we not create 15 different digital signature systems (and so on)?
Boris:
Foundation for Public Code is creating the Standard for Public Code: https://standard.publiccode.net
A:
Comptoire du Libre mentioned as an existing OSS directory in use in France.
https://comptoir-du-libre.org/
Luis C. Busquets Pérez:
Open source is here to stay, for the benefit of our people our economy.
Nokia has ~170 GitHub repositories and uses thousands of OSS components.
Open source is a big part of what we do
Some projects are strategic and some are tactical
We share internally so colleagues get used to the idea that sharing is a good thing
Open source brings innovation, but Nokia believes also differentiation
If governance is not equal and fair then open source collapses
We see the need for open source and standardisation to support each other, our open source and standardisation teams are in daily contact
Distiguish between Open Source products and developing in an open collaborative process. 'True' open source embraces both perspectives.
The vast majority of the corporate sector in open source are not there to make money, they are there to save money.
Differentiate or collaborate
The open source definition makes collaboration possible because everyone knows the terms of collaboration upfront.
wouldn't it be great to se a helpful guide to companies and citizens that want to get into open source
Our developers are more motivated if they get community recognition from open source contributions
Leslie Hawthorn:
Speaker-inn is database of European women in open source
revolving doors between industry, government,
need open standards
how public tenders are decided, how to calculate TCoO direct and indirect – including exit/handover costs, and for how long of a time
Not able to calculate exit cost of cloud
IP: because most of public tenders say IP should belong to customer, or impose restriction – why not a new directive to address IP procurement
lack of skills in public administration: not only technical, but legal advice
Moving from CapEx to OpEx
public procurment is too complex and takes too long, not good for SMEs, stratups, or innovation
between 2010-2014 had framework for public sector for only FOSS, almost all SMEs, but in a large framework agreement. abandoned in 2014 because Open source is just another way of doing software. Software is very big, have to split it in a different way.
we have to have a push. Gaia-X is the most amazing EU project in years. open source as an underpinning for doing cloud.
We know that most OS companies are SMEs and they face the same issues when trying to sell services to large orgs
Can we have a european small business act? maybe something can be done in the scope of Open Source withing current frameworks?
it's well known that most of the value of open source is created for the benefit of the customer; but we must make sure that the value that is created benefits whole ecosystem. but some of the practices in precurment benefits the few
most small open source software companies are both software authors as well as service providers – large businesses are sometimes one and contract with the other – can we ensure SMEs get a chance at contracts
large support contracts for OS Software, popular for procuring support for a large portfolio of tens or dozens of softwares used accross the org. current practices are not good enough.
Why are companies hiring people from the public sector to be used in sales roles?
Customer is locked-in to the ways of doing things.
we like having only 8 suppliers; we don't like being exploited by them, but that's easier problem to manage than managing a lot of suppliers
We need to be thinking bigger pictures – open source perception of risk, easy of purchase
procurement & SME is unfriendly to open source and unfriendly to SME
responding to a tender is a big cost
"An open approach for the NHS"
we know we've got it right when the customer (public sector) is seen as anti-social when their not investing in open source, SMEs, and local
first step to sane relationships with SMEs is to acknowlege the weaknesses
We should try to know ourselves better: where do we use OS already? Where are the suppliers?
Who works on what?
Working in public sector is great, we need some empathy
three stages:
All of the members are doing things on the local/nations side, we need to bring these solutions together for the EU level
Keep and strengthen the Open Source Definition: https://opensource.org/osd
We even questioned what a standard is.
The report lays out 7 potential new reports as future work.
Clears up distinction between free and open.
ETSI are taking OSS very seriously. Hot internal debates.
Good that the report is not only looking at the legal framework.
You cannot really fork a community, there has to be one standard.
SDOs are very diverse. Can be hard to fit all recommendations to them all.
Q: Elephant in the room? OSS developers are violently opposed to software patents.
A: Not included because scope would have been much larger.
IBM:
Q: Are the recommendation hampering innovation by making everyone too similar? Ie. are we afraid on competition?
Q: Is there an executive summary?
A: Yes, on page 70.
Q: Something in the lines of: Are the OSI making interpretations of licenses that are further than what they really mean?
No answer from Pamela on this.
Q: Does the report take a global perspective or just a European one?
A: The foreword on page 11 refers a number of other reports.
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