Can Oral Hokkien Language be Written? How Can Wikidata help?

--- title: Can Oral Hokkien Language be Written? How Can Wikidata help? tags: ESEAP Conference 2024, Hokkien, Talk, 台語, Wikidata, Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap description: View the slide with "Slide Mode". # Flags if speaker notes should be visible to all viewers --- <div style="font-size:65%;padding:32px"> # <font color="#000000">Can Oral Hokkien Language be Written? <br />How Can Wikidata help? </font> </div>  <div style="font-size:16px;display:flex;background-color:rgb(157 195 145/0.5);padding:32px;justify-content:flex-end;"> <div style="flex-direction:column; text-align:left"> <font color="#000000">slide: https://hackmd.io/@wikidata-tw/Syy3-LJ56</font>  <font color="#000000">EASEAP Conference 2024 <br /> Wikimedia Taiwan Tân Suī-lîm</font> </div> </div> Note: Hello everybody, this is Dennis Chen, Tân Suī-lîm from Taiwan. I am an active OpenStreetMap and Wikidata contributor The speech's titlle "Can Oral Hokkien Language be Written? How Can Wikidata help?", will covery mostly of Taiwanese Taigi, and one or two slides for other Southern Sinitic languages like Hakka, Cantonese, Bang-ue, Wu language --- ## Who am I?  - Supaplex - [OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Supaplex) :heart: [Wikidata](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Supaplex) :heart: - [Wikimedia Taiwan](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Taiwan/zh) :cat: Note: My online iD is Supaplex, mostly active on OpenStreetMap and Wikidata. I am also a member of Wikimeida Taiwan --- ## Highlight of Previous Speeches  * The Numbers of Written Form Articles in Taiwan Taigi is quite weak, but it is improving in these years * Emphasis on you can write in Hokkien on Wikipedia too * Main namespace on nan Wikipedia use POJ(Latinization form), also Possible to Write in Hanji Characters * **Manpower needed** Note: I have talked on recently Wikimania, HOT Summit, State of the Map. The local open source or open data events like COSCUP, Open Data Day. Zh Wikipedia is heavly relyed by students' contrubute, but Nan Wikipedia is suffered from lack of manpower. We should recruit those who want learn or increase their Taigi ability, the possible to contribute to Wikidata and nan Wikipedia. --- ## Wikimania 2023  * Talk about Taigi on Wikimania 2023 ([Slides](https://hackmd.io/@wikidata-tw/B1xgEtln2#/), [record](https://youtu.be/kFWZxYATf6Y?t=5234)) * The talk is on EASAP track, not many people particpants, and not many locals Singapore * Some Chinese people attended, not quite sure about their attitudes Note: One of the biggest gathering in the Wiki ecosystem, Wikimania is hold in Singapore in 2023, I talked about Taigi topic. But it seems not only the track EASAP is not attractive enough attendees but also fall to attract local Singapore people. There are some Chinese people listen to my talk, but not sure about their attitudes. --- ## Introduction of Min Nan/Bân-lâm/Hokkien Language  <div style="background-color:rgb(255 255 255/1)"> ![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Banlamgu.svg =360x) </div> <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Banlamgu.svg">Luuva</a>, <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0">CC BY-SA 3.0</a>, via Wikimedia Commons Note: the ISO 639-3 language code nan, not only included Taigi, but also China Banlam, Southeast Asia Hokkien, Hailamese, Tiongsan Ban, etc. These languages have different interoperability between each other, and in some extreme cases, it is very hard to communicate to each other, fox example, Hainanese. --- ## Introduction of Taigi/Min Nan/Bân-lâm/Hokkien Language  * Total Speaking Population: 48 Millions * One of the Main Languages: Taiwan, Fujian(Hokkien) * Minority Languages: [The Phillippine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Hokkien), Hong Kong, [Singapore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_Hokkien), [Malaysia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Peninsular_Malaysian_Hokkien), [Indonesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medan_Hokkien), Thailand(Teochew) Note: Here are some basic language background, the total population of Hokkien speaking people is 48 millions. the narrow defination of Banlam included Taigi, Chinese Banlam, Southeast Asia Hokkien. THe main distribution is in Taiwan and Hokkien, and minority languages status in The Phillippine, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand --- ## The Past of Taiwanese Taigi  * One Language Policy * Mandarin in Education System * Entertainment: Taigi Songs, Drama * Market language Note: Taigi was harmed by single language policy in Taiwan, discourged in the school systems and the mass media. But Taigi speaking population is quite huge, it is still a vival vernacular language in the marketing and Taigi Entertainment, for example Taigi songs and drama. --- ## The Recent Developement of Taiwanese Taigi  <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;gap:2rem;"> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:100%;left" > * End of the One Language Policy in 1993 which Limited the Boardcasting time of Taigi or Hakka * Taigi Language Examination: [Ministry of Education](https://blgjts.moe.edu.tw/tmt/index.php), [National Chengchong Unversity](https://ctlt.twl.ncku.edu.tw/gtpt/index.html) </div> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:100%;left"> <div style="flex-direction:column; text-align:left"> * Became one of the National Languages in 2017 * Online Dictionary: * [Taigi Dictionary](https://sutian.moe.edu.tw/zh-hant/)、[ChhoeTaigi](https://chhoe.taigi.info/) Dictionary </div> </div> </div> Note: In 1993, Taiwan government abolished the limitation of non-mandarin boardcasting time. In the education system, there are courses to teach Taigi or Hakka. In 2023, there are 2 Taigi Language examinations: one hold by the MOE, and one hold by the NCKU. after the Pass of [Development of National Languages Act](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9685196), Taiwanese Taigi becoming one of the national languages For Online learning resoure, we have the government operated Taigi Dictionary, and the crowd-funded, Taibun Kesimi project from [Tâibûn Kesimī](https://www.zeczec.com/projects/taibun-kesimi) Crowd-fund Project, which develope and operate the IME and dictionaries aggregated ChhoeTaigi website. --- ## [PTS Taigi Station](https://www.taigitv.org.tw/)  ![](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/H1YgKfLhh.png) Note: New words gathering by PTS Taigi Station, which hired a resarcher to operate. --- ## The Possible Split of nan  * Appeal for a (https://iso639-3.sil.org/request/2021-045) ISO 639-3 Code by ÌTHUÂN KHOKI (意傳科技) and other NGOs * Taiwan Taigi: oan * nan split into Eleven Codes: [Luezhou Min](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leizhou_Min), [Hainanese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainanese), [Haklau](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B5%B7%E4%B8%B0%E8%AF%9D), [Datian Min](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datian_Min), [Zhangzhou & Quanzhou](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkien), Zhenan Min, [Teo-Swa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo-Swa_Min), [Zhongshan Min](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhongshan_Min) etc. Note: In ISO 639-3, there is nan code represented Min Nan. The naming is not fond by everyone, and nan actually is an umbrella for varies related languages.In 2021, there are some people appeal to split nan code to 11 new codes. Taigi: oan, other change included Luechiu Language, Hailam Language, Hailiok Language, Zhenan Min, Teo-Swa, Zhongshan Min etc. --- ## The Different Names and Varies of Hokkien  * Taiwan: Tâi-uân Bân-lâm-gú/Tâi-uân Bân-lâm-gí/Tâi-uân Bân-lâm-gír * Historic Name: Tâi-oân-ōe, Tâi-gí * New Official Name: Taiwanese Taigi(Proposed) * South East Asia: Hokkian/Hokkien/福建話 * The Phillipine: Lan-lang-oe/咱人話/咱儂話 * Hakka's called Hoklo(鶴老話) Note: There are many names for the nan varietis in South East Asia. In Taiwan, some people hate the name Banlam(Min Nan), which the official name is Taiwanese Banlam(Min Nan) In the past it is called Tâi-oân-ōe(Taiwanese) by the Japanese There is a proposed to change the official name to Taiwanese Taigi Other name included 福建話(Hok-kiàn-uē), Lán-lâng-ōe. Other people like Hakka called Hoklo(鶴老話) --- ## Taiwanese Taigi on Wikimedia  * [Min Nan Wikipedia](https://nan.wikipedia.org/) * [Wikidata](https://wikidata.org) nan/nan-hani labels, description * Wikidata [Lexeme](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data) (Wikidata Lexeme) * [Wiktionary](https://www.wiktionary.org/) Note: We have Nan Wikipedia, Wikidata, the language data Wikidata Lexeme, and Wikitionary. --- ## 2024 Mediawiki Update - nan-hant support ![nan-hant](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/Sy6IDzoGC.png) --- ## nan Community  * the original Nan Wikipedians * [Hó-pêng-iú Wikimedians User Group](https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hopengiu_Wikimedians_User_Group) * [Tâi-uân ê kong-biō-bûn-huà wiki tsuan-àn](https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hopengiu_Wikimedians_User_Group/Wiki_Soan-tho%C3%A2n_Oa%CC%8Dh-t%C4%81ng) * Wikidata Taiwan community Note: Nan Wikipedia started at 2003, just one year after the establish of zh Wikipedia. And nan Wikipedia community choose to use POJ to write articles mainly, hanji as supplement. Other communtiy included those NCCU aborginal center staffs, which got funded by Wikimedia Foundation for their contribution of nan Wiktictionary And also the Wikidata Taiwan community --- ## Bân-lâm-gú(nan) Wikipedia  [Tâi-tang-koān](https://nan.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A2i-tang-ko%C4%81n) (Taitong County) Just that ![](https://i.imgur.com/ZbkYMmJ.png) Note: A nan Wikipedia article using POJ, which have some space for improvement. --- ## The Problem of nan Wikipedia  <div style="background-color: black; color: white;display:inline-flex;align-items:center;gap:2rem;"> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:110%;" left> * More Favor of POJ, lack of Hanji Content * Too much Administrative Articles, not so many Scinece Articles </div> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:110%;" left> * Lack of Community * Many Articles not linking to Wikidata </div> </div> Note: Let's see nan Wikipedia's problem. nan Wikipedia community decide a POJ approach to write aricles, and treat hanji as second level. So it makes nan Wikipedia has more POJ articles than hanji articles. What make things worse is using public domain database dataset to massly create place articles like Cebunese Wikipedia Now on Wikidata already have the permanent duplicted property for mulit-writing system languages, but nan has not yet create the correspond Wikidata item. --- ## Problem of nan Wikipedia 2 - Spam  ![](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/HJ-yDIdKh.png) Note: And also we have spam problem on nan Wikipedia, just like any small language Wikipedia. --- ## Problem Case 1: Duplicated Poland Place  ![](https://i.imgur.com/34pAuwY.png) Note: Example of mass import data, the local polish village Legarda, which is duplicated on nan Wikipedia. We want to recruit people to review and fix the duplicated issue. --- ## Problem Case 2: Thousands of Non Wikidata-linked Articles  ![](https://i.imgur.com/7McrjBB.png) Note: From the tool website duplicity, there are thousands of articles on nan Wikipedia have no Wikidata link --- ## Wikidata Labels & Descritions: nan, nan-hani  ![](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/Hk3VMfxi2.png) Note: Right now it is possible to write not only in POJ, but also in hanji --- ## POJ and Hanji: Permanent Duplicated Item  * Hakka, Bang-ue both have Hanji and Romanization articles * Linkage of Same language but different writing system by Wikidata Note: There is a henomenon in those southern sinitic languages: huge difference between capital language and oral language, ex: Wu, Bangue, Hakka, Hokkien. Those languagse like to write in Romanization to distinguish the sound differences. And there are at least two layer of words for the same thing: 文音, 白話音. For the different wrting system, it is possible to use Wikidata permanant duplicated to link each other ---- ## [Permanent Duplicated Item](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2959)(P2959)  > this item duplicates another item and the two can't be merged, as one Wikimedia project includes two pages, e.g. in different scripts or languages (only applies to some wikis, e.g.: cdowiki, gomwiki, nanwiki). Use P31=Q17362920 for other wikis. Note: The same concept, but different writing, like different characters, can use the P2959 propery --- ## Example of Permanent Duplicated Item  [Taiwan Permanent Duplicated Item](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q22337467) ![](https://i.imgur.com/PNFXPJ8.png) Note: Here is an example, Taiwan and its permanant duplicated item on Wikidata for Hakka, Bangue, Hokkien, and one India language ---- ## Relation between Permanent Duplicated Item  || Main Item | Permanent Duplicated Item | |------| -------- | -------- | |Wikidata| [Q865](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q865) | [Q22337467](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q22337467) | | zh-min-nan | [Tiong-hôa-bîn-kok](https://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiong-ho%C3%A2_B%C3%AEn-kok) | [中華民國(台灣)](https://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pang-chān:中華民國) | | hak | [Chûng-fà Mìn-koet](https://hak.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%BBng-f%C3%A0_M%C3%ACn-koet) | [中華民國(台灣)](https://hak.wikipedia.org/wiki/中華民國) | | cdo | [Dṳ̆ng-huà Mìng-guók](https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%E1%B9%B3%CC%86ng-hu%C3%A0_M%C3%ACng-gu%C3%B3k) | [中華民國(台灣)](https://cdo.wikipedia.org/wiki/中華民國) | Note: Here is Taiwan permanant duplicated item and its label for each language. The same hanji characters but totally different sound by POJ. ---  ## Merits of Writing Hokkien on Wikidata * Using few Words of short Sentences filled in Description * An already Existing Structure ** Use English as Reference to Write Hokkien ** No need to rely on Mandarin * Writing form: POJ, nan-hani, or Mixed(漢羅濫) * Linked Data Note: So here is a summary for my talk, and want more people to join. You don't have to write a full articles, write a sentence is fine on Wikidata. And you can rely on the existing Wikidata structure. For the nan languages, you can use other language than Mandarin as reference if you find it suitable. Use your prefer writing system: at least POJ, hanji or Mixed(漢羅濫) Linked-data --- ## Other Sinitic Languages  <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;gap:2rem;"> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:100%;left" > ### Written System * Chinese characters: [Cantonese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Chinese)(yue), [Wu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese)(wuu) * Romanization: [Hakka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_Chinese)(hak), [Bàng-uâ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Min)(cdo), [Hokkien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Min)(nan) </div> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left;font-size:100%;left"> <div style="flex-direction:column; text-align:left"> ### Merits * Big City: Wu(Shanghai), Nan(Taipei) * Music Industrial: Yue(Hong Kong), Nan(Taipei) * Education: Yue(School), Nan(School) </div> </div> </div> Note: Writing system: Yue and wuu use hanji, Hakka, Bangue, Hokkien use romaization system. And in the school system, both Hong Kong and Taiwan have yue or nan language courses. --- ## Fun thing on Wikidata  <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;gap:2rem;"> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left" left> Taigi Hanji ![Taigi Hanji](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/SJwHDs7GT.png) </div> <div style="flex:1;text-align:left" left> Pe̍h-ōe-jī ![Pe̍h-ōe-jī](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/S1YwPjXMT.png) </div> </div> Note: Eventhough most drama series, "Women in Taipei" in Taiwan don't have official Taibun names. But you can self-translated those names and input on Wikidata. --- ## Sister's Project: nan name field on OSM  <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:left;"> <div left> ![](https://i.imgur.com/oGXZgZt.jpg) </div> <div style="font-size:85%;display:flex;background-color:rgb(127 195 140/0.5);padding:1px;justify-content:flex-end;"> <div style="flex-direction:column; text-align:left">   [OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org): Map version of Wikipedia, co-edited by contributers OpenStreetMap name:nan: [Overpass Query](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/19i0) </div> </div> </div> Note: For the sister project of Wikmedia, there is a co-edit map OpenSteetMap, which is capatible to add multilanguage. Not only English, but also local language like Taiwanese. Here is a screenshot of Wikimedia Map, displaying local place written in POJ. --- ## [Wikimedia Map](https://maps.wikimedia.org/?lang=nan#8/22.482/114.420) by Wikimedia Foundation  <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:left;"> <div left> ![Wikimedia Map nan](https://i.imgur.com/C6z5Uu4.png) </div> <div style="font-size:85%;display:flex;background-color:rgb(127 195 140/0.5);padding:1px;justify-content:flex-end;"> <div style="flex-direction:column; text-align:left">   Wikimedia Map [label nan POJ](https://maps.wikimedia.org/?lang=nan#7/24.722/117.806) OpenStreetMap data [Taibun hanji](https://maps.wikimedia.org/?lang=nan-HJ#16/24.9725/121.5437), [Tâi-lô](https://maps.wikimedia.org/?lang=nan-TL#16/24.9725/121.5437) </div> </div> </div> Note: This is the Wikimedia Foundation powered map Wikimedia Map, which used OpenStreetMap. Wikimedia Map can swtich instanly to any langugae by typing the corresponded language code. --- ## Have you ever read a nan Wikipedia Article?  ![nan Wikipedia](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/BybuwCkzT.png) Note: This is a movie article on nan Wikipedia. The Itality movie Il Postino. This article is in middle-size article. But still have to use your time to contribute. --- ## [Q258647](https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q258647)  ![Q258646 Wikidata](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/S18P5f-Ga.png) Note: It is much easy to edit on Wikidata, just type the name and one sentence. --- ## Plan for nan Wikipedia  * Let's Start Contribution: POJ or Hanji * Taiwan MOE [Recommend Hanji](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E8%87%BA%E7%81%A3%E9%96%A9%E5%8D%97%E8%AA%9E%E6%8E%A8%E8%96%A6%E7%94%A8%E5%AD%97) or Koa-á-chheh Characters * Hanji-POJ linked by Permanent Duplicated Items on Wikidata Note: Lets write on nan Wikipedia, whatever it is POJ or hanji.Using Taiwan MOE Recommend Hanji or Koa-á-chheh Hanji --- ## Plan for nan Wikipedia  * POJ (Wikidata Main item) - Hanji Article (Wikidata Permanent Duplicated item) * Administrative units * Science Note: Linking POJ written one to the hanji article by Wikidata Might be administrative, science articles --- ## Please Join the Writing Campaign  * ~~Stop the agurement~~ * Ignored those claimed that violate linguistics' study * Need Code of Code to Stop the Extreme or Unproductive Speach * The Possible split of nan ISO-639-3 code, might imclubated new Wikipedia Sites * Edit nan/nan-hani Labels or Descriptions on Wikidata * Wiktonary * Wikidata Lexeme Note: I think we should ignore the argurement and start to aggregate articles or Wikidata items. Ignore non-lingulist statement. And we need code of conduct to regulate community discuss. If some extreme speach happened, then we can follow the CoC. The ISO-693-3 proposal might have a chance for a new language code, which will have the possible to incubate new Wikipedia site. Edit Wikidata's label and descritpion for nan/nan-hani is much easy than a whole Wikipedia articles. We should not ignore Wiktonary and Wikidata Lexeme --- ## OSM x Wikidata Monthly Meetup  * 06/03 19:30 @MozSpace Taipei * [Telegram Wikimedia nan](https://t.me/Wikimedia_nan) * Facebook [Wikidata Taiwan](https://www.facebook.com/WikidataTW/events) Note: There is monthly meetup in Taipei, next time is 11/13 at MozSpace Taipei Online discuss is on Telegram group Wikimedia nan There is a Wikidata Taiwan Facebook Group, also covered language issue. --- ## [To-siā!](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%A4%9A%E8%AC%9D#Chinese) [sṳ̀n-mùng-ǹ!](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%89%BF%E8%92%99%E4%BD%A0) Thank you!  :sheep: Q&A: Communication Channels - [GitHub](https://github.com/Supaplextw/)、[Wikidata](https://wikidata.org/wiki/User:Supaplex)、[OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Supaplex) - [email](mailto:dennis@wikimedia.tw) - Facebook Group: [Wikidata Taiwan](https://www.facebook.com/groups/2212207218990971/)、[OpenStreetMap Taiwan](https://www.facebook.com/groups/OpenStreetMap.TW/) Note: Here is my contact information, thank you.

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