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- [ ] # CC-Create: Infrastructure Ethiopian afar
_An incomplete and subjective comparison of selected software and services which could be used in service of the [CC-Create network![](https://hackmd.io/_uploads/r1RiG_eza.jpg)
- [ ] [afar ](https://) platform](https://github.com/creativecommons/network-platforms/blob/master/Culture.md)._
Although it incorporates the feedback of many other people in the CC community, this document was written by (and shows the biases of) Sam Muirhead - that's me! I'm currently the most active participant in the plan to set up CC-Create, though throughout the process I'll be aiming to bring more people onboard and support them to take on roles of greater responsibilty.
Various other platforms and approaches were also considered, eg other forum software, mailing lists, etc. If you want to know more about why [x] wasn't considered suitable, please get in touch - sam at cameralibre.cc!
> **Notes** like this can be found throughout the text with my personal comments.
## Github/GitLab
##### Pros
- built explicitly for collaboration and remix!
##### Cons
- built for software development. Not very suitable for artistic collaboration.
**Recommendation:** It's unlikely that Github/GitLab will be useful for the CC-Create community at this stage.
## Wiki
##### Pros
- [CC already has a wiki!](https://wiki.creativecommons.org)
- a wiki can be a great long-term, updatable, easily searchable store of institutional knowledge
##### Cons
- doesn't serve the _social_ needs of a community growing and getting to know one another.
- not ideal for beginners! The barrier to entry is higher than the conversational approach of Discourse or Slack - more formal, more focused on expertise and high-level knowledge about CC. The Discussion pane is not very apparent and hardly used, so it's harder to engage.
**Recommendation:** When topics and conversations solidify into useful, referenceable resources, they can be turned into pages on the main CC-wiki. This is an optional step, as forum posts are also editable and can be referenced from elsewhere, but it may be easier for the casual visitor to creativecommons.org to find information if it is in the wiki.
## Slack:
##### Pros
- great for short conversations & quick inquiries
- easy to use
- CC already has active and reasonably popular Slack channels (even a [#cc-create](https://creativecommons.slack.com/messages/CC4QJ678U/) one!)
##### Cons
- Real-time chat is not so useful for people in difficult timezones (miss important conversations, late responses aren't seen)
- ephemeral chat is not very useful for more in-depth ongoing collaboration (compared to git repositories, kanban boards, wikis or pads/docs etc)
- not effective at building up a transferable institutional knowledge base (important for broadening the base of contributors/community managers)
- Slack is not F/LOSS, so we can't customize it to our needs, we don't own our data or history, and proprietary software is not aligned with the goals and ethics of the commons movement.
- the community using the CC slack includes very few artists, so we don't benefit much from a slack 'network effect'.
**Recommendation:** The #cc-create Slack channel _already exists_, so feel free to use it if you like, and if you want to take on responsibility for community management, go for it! It is very easy to post Discourse conversations to Slack, this can even be done [automatically](https://blog.discourse.org/2016/10/official-slack-integration-for-discourse/). While Slack can certainly serve some of the needs of a CC-Create platform, it is not suitable for in-depth collaboration and building useful community resources.
>**Note:** Alhough I am happy to engage and answer questions in Slack when needed, I won't be taking an active role in Slack community management, because real-time chat is awkward from my timezone (UTC+13), and as a proprietary walled garden, Slack isn't well aligned with my ethics or goals.
>
## [Discourse](https://www.discourse.org/)
acmadigacle5@gmail.com
Ethiopian afar
##### Pros
- spans the gap between informal chat and formal wiki
- informal: short responses are ok, links auto-expand, @-mentioning, likes and [emoji reactions](https://meta.discourse.org/t/retort-a-reaction-style-plugin-for-discourse/35903)
- formal: any post can be made into a wiki, easy Markdown or WSIWYG formatting, support for categories and tags, [polls](https://meta.discourse.org/t/how-to-create-polls/77548) for decision-making
- Discourse is Free/Libre Open Source Software, so it can be adapted to our own needs, installed under a creativecommons.org subdomain, and fit to CC's visual branding - we can make it feel like home.
- important discussions, questions or reference topics can be linked publicly, without the viewer being signed in. This is helpful for community building beyond the existing CC-slack users/network members.
- Discourse has [Slack integration](https://blog.discourse.org/2016/10/official-slack-integration-for-discourse/): you can post Discourse discussions to Slack, helpful for engaging the existing CC community.
- The organisation of the CC-Create platform can happen transparently on the Discourse platform itself - this helps make the work involved more visible, makes implicit knowledge and processes explicit, and makes it easier for community members to step up into roles of more responsibility.
##### Cons
- For best results, Discourse should be set up and managed on a CC server - while not technically difficult, it's another responsibility for a small dev team. There are also various paid hosting options available, and Discourse also offers free hosting for Open Source projects.
- unlike a slack channel, new infrastructure like this needs to be approved by the Global Network council (and therefore takes a little longer to get organized!)
- while CC single-sign-on would be technically possible, from previous discussions (with Rob Myers) it seems like we would need to at least start with a separate sign-in, for now.
- Not an issue inherent to Discourse, but as we would be starting a new platform from scratch, there is a risk that we may not able to get enough users to be sustainable as a community, or that the platform becomes inactive.
>**Note:** Setting up a new platform is always a risky undertaking, but I have learned a lot from extensive experience with online community-building in different projects. I have already built an active global network, working transparently: [OSCEdays](https://community.oscedays.org). There's 4+ years of institutional knowledge and history documented in the open on a Discourse forum, and these days I'm no longer needed to keep the community running.