# Packaging Con

### Agenda:

Link to the previous brainstorming notes:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t5KA93w33-ic_gOaGsrDhvm1sPwOjQgeqlEP2CUkg70/edit?usp=sharing

- Name?! Emoji-domains open
- 📦con.io :)
- boxcon.dev is availble
- box-con.org as well
- Other names: packageCon, PkgCon...
- Format of the conference
- Virtual or in-person?
- GatherTown / social.chat / spatial chat
- Talks or Papers?
- Sponsors?
-
- Mission statement proposals
- "Bring together different packaging communities to foster exchange"
- Encourage collabortation between package management communities
- Proposal call criteria?
- best in class (and how)
- theoretical foundations
- major gaps in the community
- stakeholder complaints (UI/UX)
- collaboration opportunities/commonalities

- Should we have a ... Slack/Discord/...?
- Slack!
- Placeholder website?
- Good idea
- Draft of an "invite" or announcement text that we can send out?
- Voted in

- Who to "invite"?
- Spack [handled]
- Todd
- Conda / Mamba [handled]
- Cheng, CJ, Wolf
- Nix [handled]
- Rok, Matthias
- Guix
- Vcpkg
- Conan
- Homebrew
- Chocolatey
- Nodejs / npm
- Fortran / fpm [handled]
- Rust / cargo
- Python / pip / PyPA
- Arch / Fedora / Debian / Ubuntu / Gentoo
These are all different philosophies despite being on the same line :)
- CentOS
- Easybuild
- Haskell / hackage / Stackage / Purescript (Spago) / Elm
- Go? Would be interesting to invite Russ Cox or somebody
- R/CRAN (?)
- Perl/CPAN (?)
- MSYS2 (?)
- Julia
- repology.org
- abi-laboratory
- software heritage (https://www.softwareheritage.org/)
- https://manifest.fm/ (podcast)
-
Discussion points (how far should we go):
- build tools? Bazel / CMake ..?
- configuration "after package installation"?
- Invite OS vendors (Apple, Microsoft)?
- OS could learn package concepts?

### Who else to invite for org commitee?
- pip / cargo / pubgrub author

### ToDo

- Make a list of (virtual) conferences we liked in the past?
- Deadline for response from various communities
- Draft CFP
- Find other conference dates and check for suitable day in fall

# Meeting 15 June 2021

- Website domain bought, small website set up (github pages) --> packaging-con.org
- We need content (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tltxANqJxSDcAdKzUKlsP4WIcgav9hxqPaTB94Z3l0M/edit)
- Repository: https://github.com/packaging-con/packaging-con.github.io
- Roles for commitee members?
- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NTnhJcA7h5s8pf3NIj7YGrJbASUVN7kwk5-mZ-G_9d8/edit#gid=0
Another
- https://2021.splashcon.org/home/conflang-2021

-
- CFS: Call for Submissions?
- Should we have a keynote? Who?
- package management vs dependency management
- distros vs developer/language-specific package managers
- NPM vs the distro's
- package manager vulnerabilities
- Vendoring / security
- Supply chain issues
- solving complexity
- scalable metadata management
- binary compatibility
- Security of package management – how do we ship packages that have full integrity?
- Packaging – advances in the world of packaging: better compression, faster builds,
- Automation & scaling: how to keep up with the latest releases and how do we scale package servers for millions of users?
- Solving & Versioning: how do package managers approach “solving” environments, and how do we version packages correctly?

- Sponsoring: Citadel is interested in sponsoring!
- Organizational aspect: asked NumFOCUS:
> Wolf Vollprecht 8:48 AM
> Hi all, I am currently planning to set up a new “conference” and was wondering if we could get NumFOCUS’ help? We’ve got a barebones website at packaging-con.org
> conda, mamba and conda-forge people are involved there, and hopefully we also get some Python + pip / Julia + Pkg.jl people on board, so I think it fits quite well with NumFOCUS
- No response up to now, CJ is going to talk to NumFOCUS
- Sprints: not this time
- Birds of a feather / panels: would be great?

- Figuring out a date?
- November: first two weeks are OK
- December: first one or two weeks are OK

- Wednesday / Thursday at beginning of November

#### Fixing up the packaging-con page
- Wolf to fix https on packaging-con.org: https://github.blog/2018-05-01-github-pages-custom-domains-https/

#### TODO:
- [x] add to CFS list above
- [x] poll on date of conference
- [x] schedule next meeting
- [ ] decide on submission deadlines after conference date
- [ ] set up submission system

# Agenda 6th July 2021

- Website has https :heavy_check_mark:
- New website + logo design: https://www.figma.com/proto/MCVXsVsLKu1Ed9k0TvNGUt/packagingCon?node-id=1%3A2&scaling=min-zoom&page-id=0%3A1
- NumFOCUS meeting right after
- 30% of proceeds go to NumFOCUS
- They have a conference system for submissions / reviews etc.
- Alternatives:
- pretalx (JuliaCon uses it)
- easychair
- full conf organization teams (e.g. LOVE conference) by a russian org team
- open source alternatives
- Address concerns over being focused on "NumFOCUS"-package managers
- Tie money to the mission statement
- What should we charge?
- Ticket prices?
- Pay what you want + suggested prices :heavy_check_mark:
- Tell people what we do with the money -- hold over funds for the next event
- Twitter handle reserved: https://twitter.com/packagingcon
- First draft of call for presentations is done: https://github.com/packaging-con/packaging-con.github.io/pull/1

- What will submissions look like
- presentations
- 20 min presentation + time to discuss right after
- Lightning talks
- Experience tracks (2-3 minute videos)
- When will submissions open / close / review
- time frames?
- 1 month submission window
- time for reviews
- live talks vs. pre-recorded (more time to prepare pre-recorded talks)

- Deadline for submissions: early of september
- mid september notification
- Mid of october for video upload
- ticket sales up to the conference itself
- Submission format: Title + Abstract

- Setup a discourse?

- Marketing
- make a list where we add to where we posted the website

- Define what success looks like
- get people to talk!

- Experinces Track
- Add to CFP and define what it means

# Agenda 20 July 2021

- New people (Hey NumFOCUS!)
- Platforms:
- (NumFocus) DaskSummit:
- talk via zoom, afterwards move to gather.town or slack
- gather.town less-is-more -> use only for discussion
- (MM) spatial chat live coding demos were cool
- (NumFocus)
- can set up zoom rooms
- also can help with slack
- pretalx is set up, cost is ~250 Euro
- I (wolf) can pay, or QuantStack can pay, later reimbursement through NF?
- new website + CFP is online, proofread please?
- GitHub PR: https://github.com/packaging-con/packaging-con.github.io/pull/2
- Should we put our faces + logos on Website?
- add a short bio to each organization commitee member
- Sponsorship prospectus text (CJ, any updates?)
- Link: https://hackmd.io/jkAZcChvR56YtZPHlOI4zw
- We should put together a small pitch for companies
- Sponsorship levels:
- Founding sponsor $??? (limited to 1?)
- Platinum sponsor $??? (limited to N?)
- Gold sponsor $??? (limited to M?)
- Silver sponsor $??? (limited to O?)
- https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=https://pydata.org/global2021/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/PyData-Global-2021-Sponsorship-Prospectus-1.pdf&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1626881045980000&usg=AFQjCNFKHswMCgnF8bE5B7_vryw2B021mw
- Next meeting: 3 Aug 2021

# 3 August meeting

Agenda:

- 73 registrations so far
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1k2N1Vc12ZCMKx0iC5Q0NOxF0ox7nisbkqAvtuxb4pcw/edit#responses
- Canonical / apt-get
- rpm mailing list -> Wolf will take care of that
- Matthias is going to reach out more publicly to Nix / Haskell / PureScript / Elm community (stackage/hackage...)
- R / RStudio? Is there a mailing list? R-OpenScience? Stefanie Butand? https://twitter.com/StefanieButland
- NumFocus newsletter
- JFrog? Sponsorship / Talk?
- Jetbrains dev advocates? https://twitter.com/paulweveritt
- Bazel community? -> Matthias taking care of
- Todd: academic community? FASTIN.eu
- Microsoft / vcpkg -> Wolf reaches out (Robert Schumacher, Nicole M)
- Software Heritage: Matthias knows Roberto, he can reach out to him
- New linkedin page for packaging-con: https://www.linkedin.com/company/packaging-con

- sponsorship levels updates?
- Updated sponsorship prospectus https://hackmd.io/jkAZcChvR56YtZPHlOI4zw
- Jobs board is interesting for companies
- Collect phone number / emails of participants and opt-in for sharing with sponsors
- First talk proposal submitted
- Not too academic reviews
- broad net to get all talks possible, then sort out based on quality
- Meet the package managers
- Panels for different package managers
- Dense day with all different package managers and approaches
- Overview session?
- Find axes of comparisons - source / binary, abis, functional, ...
- Todd + Matthias making a presentation?!
- Interactive discussions?
- DEI?
- Reach out to women in packaging?
- Manifest.fm podcast
- Tweet more, also to
- Natalie Weizenbaum
- Nicole Mizuka
- Podcasts from the conference?
- Pick out a couple people from the conference and make a podcast
- Todd is going to contact manifest.fm person

# 17 August

- Sponsorship prospectus getting ready, let's get some feedback from NumFOCUS: [Link](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1KRmrp2bfYF4w7XWnZib9bZL-q00pkLEUxUBhSn64dec/edit?usp=sharing)
- Really good numbers for registrations
- ~350 people registered, some known names
- ~20 talk proposals registered, mostly looking good!
- One person (from VMWare) has signed up as a reviewer
- I started a [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18ODtnIFL3nDujslCzppxL8GzkJ4xeEbMnwsxzfSIV5Q/edit) please add others that might be interested
- Make a google form for reviewers
- Need to set up Eventbrite to collect donations and create "final" tickets
- Can someone pre-write an email?
- Need to figure out opt-in for job board
- LinkedIn link (opt-in for job opps)
-

- Suggested prices:
- $20 for students
- $50 for employed
- $100 for company paying for employee

- Recording zoom
- Check out streamyard
- Streamyard can do overlays of logos
- Multiplex? to different streaming services (e.g. youtube / linkedin / facebook etc)
- PigeonHole was used by Julia for Questions

questions list for attendees

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zESrAdIGy_5GxZ26A6n2bQ9VV987rmsB1DqqPVy3U2k/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=105995116946279388872

# 31 August Meeting

- 68 talks submitted
- 6 reviewers signed up
- Ticket sales: 11 tickets for $850
- Text for email to all pre-registrants: need to add the link to the reviewer signup then send it out
- Should we send it from `[e-mail]`? Or will that go to the spam folder?
- Anybody know how to do that for 350 people?
- Any updates on sponsors?
- Citadel seems to be in the pipeline
- Wolf: going to reach out to Bloomberg
- Already reached out to chocolatey and Canonical, no response yet
- QuanSight was also interested in sponsoring
- Anaconda?
- ...?
- Web platform for the conference?
- Streamyard looks good (https://streamyard.com/)
- Scipy was using https://www.airmeet.com/ (had instant replay and seems to meet many of our other criteria as well)
- Youtube stream comments -> hard to keep up
- Check out pigeonhole

Next steps:
- Need to figure out the review tool
- Review talks (do we need to write up criteria?)
- CFP as guideline?
- How many slots? -> 30?
- Pre- or post track with pre-recorded videos
- JuliaCon had a prime time track
- and some pre-recorded videos on off-hours
- Cheng volunteered for splitting talks
- Create a schedule
- Figure out the web broadcasting tool
- Figure out what tools for mingling of participants (hallway track)

# 14 September meeting

- 50 Tickets sold, $3000 in the pocket
- Sponsors update? Tweag signed up, Bloomberg somewhat interested (need to follow up)
- Anaconda interested, deciding on level
- Reviews: ongoing
- actually we're delayed wrt to dates on the website
- Send out an email to the speakers
- will have to communicate about that
- Meet next week with subgroup for schedule & sending out acceptance emails
- Cheng,
- Keynote? Tweag is offering a keynote.
- Better to have a kickoff talk
- Taxonomy talk?!
- Still have to decide on tools. Does someone want to take the lead?
- element.io can embed video

# Agenda 28 September

- What to do with OPAM?!
- Next year: ask for standing of people when submitting
- try to resolve by email and connect the two persons
- Post talks to LinkedIn?!
-
- What to do with pre-registrees?
- pycon global usually 80% is sold in last 48 hours
- Sponsors update?
- Citadel signed!!!
- Anaconda Silver -- in process
- Tweag -- in process
- Put CFP on a different page to make logos of sponsors more prominent
- Time zones:
- We need to find some session chairs
- Can probably fill the spots ourselves

- 58 confirmed talks / 11 waiting
- per talk 20 minutes
- 3 tracks * 2 days => ?

- Tracks from the reviews:
- Solvers
- Supply Chain Security
- Deep Dive on Package Manager
- Metadata & Building Things
- ABI & Static Analysis
- Registries
**Comments**
- Keep talks in a block (not interleave) so that people stay together

- Figure out the schedule:
- Pick a date?

- Daily Schedule:
- Greetings, mention all sponsors
- First day: talk about stuff we could / should do together
- Second day: Taxonomy talk
- Then off to tracks
- Tracks: 2 or 3?

# 12th October

Getting close!

- New sponsors: tweag and collabora!
- Schedule somewhat done -- talks grouped, but needs finishing touches
- When breaks/ how long?
- (Wolf) tried out Airmeet and Streamyard: streamyard simpler, less features and more intuitive IMHO
- Also tried out gather.town and quite like it
- What should we do for "side"-programme?

# 26th October

- Status: sold 103 + 26 free tickets ($5700)
- Welcome presentation started https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xHLhHRBDB-PbDGrBOI9xXNl4WJ7veFLY6Cr2LV106XM/edit?usp=sharing
- Should we get snippets from each sponsor?!
- Panel for 2nd welcoming session
- Sent reminder email with schedule to all pre-registrees
- Session chairs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19cHjwZ1YFvnlmaU4MmxcfekuNKqmhkVKcTOL_v_BAfw/edit?usp=sharing
- Please select one or two sessions you'd like to chair!
- If we can't fill all sessions, we should ask friends & community
- If we don't make it we can ask speakers to chair on a day that they are not speaking themselves
- Streamyard works really well, going to add some PackagingCon customizations to the stream
- Need to make sure to stream in 1080p
- Should we organize a tech check session?
- Let's make one or two 1 hour events where people can try streamyard
- Be there 15 minutes early to solve tech problems
- Should we have speakers come in at the beginning of the block? --> ask speakers to come to sessions, we grouped them to encourage discussion
- Chat platform
- Slack? Probably doesn't go well with the GUIX crowd
- Pigeonhole? embeds youtube stream, pretty polished & complex
- ...?
- I think having a channel per session would be nice, and maybe threaded discussions (ala Slack)
- Also the discussions shouldn't vanish when the session/talk finishes
- Discord could also be nice
- Check matrix / element.io once more
- Avatar platform
- gather.town is nice, we should figure out integration with the other tools