owned this note changed a year ago
Published Linked with GitHub

T-lang meeting agenda

  • Meeting date: 2024-06-26

Attendance

  • People: TC, Josh, nikomatsakis, tmandry, Santiago, Xiang, Urgau, scottmcm, eholk, pnkfelix

Meeting roles

  • Minutes, driver: TC

Scheduled meetings

  • 2024-06-26: "Design meeting: Match ergonomics 2024 part 3" #268
  • 2024-07-03: "Design meeting: Extended triage 2024-07-03" #272
  • 2024-07-10: "Design meeting: Discriminant syntax (RFC 3607)" #275
  • 2024-07-17: "Design meeting: Float semantics (RFC 3514)" #273
  • 2024-07-24: "Design meeting: Freeze in bounds (RFC 3633)" #277
  • 2024-07-31: "Planning meeting: 2024-07-31" #276

Edit the schedule here: https://github.com/orgs/rust-lang/projects/31/views/7.

Announcements or custom items

(Meeting attendees, feel free to add items here!)

Guest attendee items

TC: For any guests who are present, please note in this section if you're attending for the purposes of any items on (or off) the agenda in particular.

Moving right along

TC: As we've been doing recently, due to the impressive backlog, I'm going to push the pace a bit. If it's ever too fast or you need a moment before we move on, please raise a hand and we'll pause.

Design meeting at 12:30 EST / 09:30 PST / 17:30 CET

TC: Remember that we have a design/planning meeting that starts half an hour after this call ends.

Next meeting with RfL

We're next meeting with RfL on 2024-07-03 to review the status of RfL project goals.

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3614

Spec team update

On the spec team, we recently adopted and are executing a go-forward plan:

  1. Adopt the Rust Reference today.
  2. Reformat one chapter of the Reference ourselves, using the mdbook extension Eric drafted based on Mara's proposed layout.
  3. Ask the Foundation to hire a technical writer to churn through the other 114 chapters or so and made the same transformation.
    • Joel: We're hoping to have a contractor board by 1 July. The person we're bringing on will be fully spun-up on day 1. The funding for this person runs through the end of the year.
  4. Expand the coverage of the Reference, in terms of the subjects on which the FLS has some coverage but the Reference doesn't, by adopting the content from the FLS into the Reference.
    • In general, narrowing the distance between the Reference and the FLS, starting from the Reference.
  5. Work toward associating the tests in the Rust repository with chapters in the Reference.
    • Reuse the FLS annotations as much as possible.
    • Explore adding a separate test suite for the Reference.

https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/1483

Related to that, we're giving +write on the Reference to the spec team. The ops team asked for lang sign-off on this. If it's without objection, I'm planning to say that lang is fine with this and that it's a spec team / rustdocs matter.

Rust 2024 review

Project board: https://github.com/orgs/rust-lang/projects/43/views/5

None.

Meta

TC: We have tracking issues for the Rust 2024 aspects of every item queued for the edition:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=label%3AA-edition-2024+label%3AC-tracking-issue

For each item, we've identified an owner. Our most recent update for item owners is here:

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/268952-edition/topic/Owners.20update.202024-04-30

Our motivating priorities are:

  • Make this edition a success.
  • Do so without requiring heroics from anyone.
    • or stressing anyone or everyone out.

The current timeline to be communicated is:

Date Version Edition stage
2024-06-13 Release v1.79 Checking off items
2024-07-25 Release v1.80 Checking off items
2024-09-05 Release v1.81 Checking off items
2024-10-11 Branch v1.83 Go / no go on all items
2024-10-17 Release v1.82 Rust 2024 nightly beta
2024-11-22 Branch v1.84 Prepare to stabilize
2024-11-28 Release v1.83 Stabilize Rust 2024 on master
2025-01-03 Branch v1.85 Cut Rust 2024 to beta
2025-01-09 Release v1.84 Announce Rust 2024 is pending!
2025-02-20 Release v1.85 Release Rust 2024

Tracking Issue for Lifetime Capture Rules 2024 (RFC 3498) #117587

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/117587

TC: With the acceptance of RFC 3617, the adoption of + use<..> syntax, and the great work by CE, this is looking to be in good shape for the edition.

Reserve gen keyword in 2024 edition for Iterator generators #3513

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3513

TC: With the acceptance of RFC 3513 and the great work by Oli, this is looking to be in good shape for the edition.

Tracking issue for promoting ! to a type (RFC 1216) #35121

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/35121
Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/123508

TC: With the acceptance of the plan we FCPed in #123508 and the great work by Waffle, this is looking to be in good shape for the edition.

Nominated RFCs, PRs, and issues

"Deny keyword lifetimes pre-expansion" rust#126762

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/126762

We decided recently that we considered it a bug fix to start denying 'keyword lifetimes pre-expansion, in the parser.

CE is asking for FCP, just for consistently. Josh proposed FCP merge. We just decided this, so easy checkbox here.

TC: This will go into FCP.

"Make NEVER_TYPE_FALLBACK_FLOWING_INTO_UNSAFE a hard error in edition 2024" rust#126881

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/126881

TC: We'll have everything (including documentation) for changing never type fallback crossed off this week (!!!).

There's one, non-blocking, open question we should resolve. The original FCPed plan included this item:

  • Add a lint against fallback affecting a generic that is passed to an unsafe function.
    • Perhaps make this lint deny-by-default or a hard error in Rust 2024.

That is, we had left as an open question strengthening this in Rust 2024, and had marked it as an open question on the tracking issue.

As a reminder, what we're talking about are cases like this:

fn never_type_fallback() { unsafe {
    if false { panic!() } else { transmute::<_, _ /* ?0 */>(()) }
    // later in fallback:     ?0 := ()
    // after ! stabilization: ?0 := !
}}

We decided we didn't want people writing this or relying on this sort of thing, and we lint against these now. We have the opportunity to make it deny-by-default or a hard error in Rust 2024, and that's what I'd probably suggest to take these cases off the table entirely.

TC: What do we think?

NM: A hard error feels surprising why? There are a nunmber of heuristic aspects to it. I see the logic. I'm unsure about deny-by-default versus hard error. Given the discussion about making the rules around never more uniform, that's a consideration.

scottmcm: What I'd ask is whether it makes our language definition simpler to make it a hard error. I'm inclined to deny-by-default here.

pnkfelix: We don't have a machine-applicable fix for this. Maybe that's a consideration.

TC: Revised proposal, let's make it deny-by-default. How do people feel about that?

NM: +1. This lets us tweak the boundaries.

Josh: +1. I'd add that we're open to a hard error if that makes the implementation side easier.

tmandry: I'm aligned on deny-by-default.

scottmcm: +1 on deny-by-default.

pnkfelix: +1 on that.

"Rescope temp lifetime in let-chain into IfElse" rust#107251

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/107251

TC: This PR is about shortening, over an edition, the scope of temporary lifetimes in if-let scrutinees so that they end before the else block. The current rules are a particular problem for let-chains which we hope to stabilize.

Ding assembled this report based on our request:

https://hackmd.io/@dingxf/rkJXW-0BA

TC: What do we think?

Josh: I'd be good to start an FCP here if needed.

NM: It seems we need an stabilization report here. I'll look into this one.

"Tracking Issue for const_cstr_from_ptr" rust#113219

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/113219

TC: dtolnay is proposing const stabilization on:

impl CStr {
    pub const unsafe fn from_ptr<'a>(ptr: *const c_char) -> &'a CStr;
}

The FCP also includes that later stabilization of:

impl CStr {
    #[unstable]
    pub const fn count_bytes(&self) -> usize;
}

including const would not need lang sign-off.

scottmcm analyzed this, noting that this works on stable:

const unsafe fn count_bytes(p: *const u8) -> usize {
    let mut i = 0;
    loop {
        if *p.add(i) == 0 { return i }
        i += 1;
    }
}

and so he doesn't have any concerns. tmandry agreed.

TC: Easy checkbox?

NM: Good enough for me.

TC: This will move into FCP.

"non_local_definitions lint fires for impl Trait for NonLocalType<SomeLocalType>, probably shouldn't" rust#126768

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/126768

In RFC 3373 we decided to lint against "sneaky inner impls", that is, function-local impls of outer traits for outer types. What we had in mind were things like this:

trait Tr {}
struct S {}
fn foo() {
    impl Tr for S {}
}

But we specifically wanted to allow people making local impls of local traits on outer types or of outer traits on local types, e.g.:

trait Tr {}
fn foo() {
    struct S {}
    impl Tr for S {}
}

or:

struct S {}
fn foo() {
    trait Tr {}
    impl Tr for S {}
}

So, in that light, it does seem a bit strange that we lint against impls of e.g. outer traits on references to inner types, e.g.:

trait Tr {}
fn foo() {
    struct S {};
    impl Tr for &S {}
    //~^ WARN  non-local `impl` definition, `impl` blocks should be
    //~|       written at the same level as their item
}

There's a type system logic to this, which is that we could write:

fn leak<T: Tr>() {}

fn main() {
    leak::<&_>(); // Infers `&S`.
}

But the outcome is a kind of surprising language result. Specifically, people had probably wanted the type or trait to be local, and the only way for them to resolve this warning is to make them both non-local. (The diagnostic for this case is wrong too, because it tells people to put the impl at the same level as the item, which it already is.)

Anyway, it seemed worth confirming that this is what we really meant to do.

TC: What do we think?

Josh: It seems that our reasonable options are to not warn about this, since it doesn't seem like a big deal that it could leak in this way, or go ahead and continue linting against it, since it is technically leaking, or the third option is to reconsider the "only one thing could go here" rule in a future edition.

pnkfelix: I would have thought that one could have implemented this lint as a simple syntactic heuristic rather than being a complicated type system thing.

Josh: I don't think anything stops us from implementing it that way. Right now it's been implemented very technically on the question of "could it leak out at all".

NM: I think I'm in the camp of that this is an unwanted inference result in the language. I don't think, in the program above, that we should infer an inner struct that you can't name. I lean toward the option of not linting for now, then, if we later wanted to move toward a harder error, we could look at making the inference not work this way.

Josh: That would be my inclination as well. I don't think we necessarily need to rip out the "only one thing could go here" rule; we could add a post check for whether that thing is a completely inaccessible type defined inside an inner scope.

NM: I believe we have some precedent here. petrochenkov wrote an RFC revisiting the rules on public and private. Would check after inference whether the type you inferred was public.

TC: It's RFC 2145:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2145

Josh: Let's not lint against this now (on that basis that we may later want to stop doing this strange inference anway).

NM: Agreed. I'm concerned about this case leading to subtle bugs in unsafe code along the lines of the problems we've seen with Pin i.e., authors assuming the struct is inaccessible outside the function and relying on that. I'd rather we revisit the inference rules and try to address that.

tmandry: I'm aligned on not linting on this case. I'd expect to be able to write the code above. Hopefully we can close the inference loophole here eventually.

scottmcm: I'm excited by the direction of "let's change bigger rules in other places" and so if, for now, we don't lint here, that's good for me.

pnkfleix: +1, let's not lint there.

"Guard Patterns" rfcs#3637

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3637

This RFC is about allowing, e.g.:

match x {
    (Ok(Some(y)) if y == 10) | (Ok(None)) => todo!(),
    _ => todo!(),
}

One effect of this is to allow guards more widely where refutable patterns are allowed, e.g.:

let (x if x == 10) = y else { loop {} };

TC: Josh has proposed FCP, is +1, and has nominated this for us. What do we think?

Josh: I see this as a generalization of patterns.

TC: I ran into cases just recently where this would have been useul.

tmandry: Indeed; I have also. I'm curious how this might interact with the other outstanding proposals.

scottmcm: This, I think, falls in the category of things that make sense to me, and it will have implications on people who have written tricky macros.

Josh: In reading through this myself, I think the author covered the corner cases. So I'd suggest people read and confirm that.

NM: I kind of don't know why we wouldn't do it, and that bothers me a bit. scottmcm just gave one good reason.

scottmcm: TBH I do want it, because I've also hit macros that didn't add the if support, and where that was annoying.

"warn less about non-exhaustive in ffi" rust#116863

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/116863

TC: This PR is about:

Bindgen allows generating #[non_exhaustive] #[repr(u32)] enums. This results in nonintuitive nonlocal improper_ctypes warnings, even when the types are otherwise perfectly valid in C.

Adjust for actual tooling expectations by avoiding warning on simple enums with only unit variants.

This fixes:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/116831

However, petrochenkov notes:

When I started reading #116831 my first reaction was "if NodeTag is so special, then it's fine to use allow", but the problem is that you cannot actually apply allow to the single location where it would be most appropriate - enum NodeTag definition.

From the issue it looks like what you want to express is "this enum is non_exhaustive, but I guarantee that no future variant additions will change its ABI, so it's fine to use it in C interfaces and improper_ctypes should not be reported".

Maybe non_exhaustive can be enhanced with some markers describing what we promise not to add, and it would be useful in other situations too, not just in improper_ctypes. In the meantime the lint could be relaxed.

Warning on #[repr(C)] #[non_exhaustive] was an explicit lang team decision, so I'll send this back to lang team for reconsidering.

TC: What do we think?

"Disallow deriving (other than Copy/Clone) on types with unnamed fields" rust#121270

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121270

TC: pnkfelix nominates this for us:

This PR that addresses some ICEs arising for the unstable feature(unnamed_fields), by conservatively mapping the ICE'ing cases to static errors instead.

The T-compiler team wants to know the opinion of T-lang of whether feature(unnamed_fields) is sufficiently likely, in the near future, to be removed (or significantly reworked) to such a degree that it would make more sense to close this PR rather than have contributors spend further time on it.

(See also the context established by https://hackmd.io/7r0i-EWyR8yO6po2LnS2rA#Tracking-issue-for-RFC-2102-Unnamed-fields-of-struct-and-union-type-rust49804 (where I think there was supposed to be an eventual writeup of the concerns people had with feature(unnamed_fields)) and #49804 (comment) )

On 2024-05-12, Josh said:

It sounds like, from the minutes, that some folks would like to see this feature designed differently than it was when it was previously accepted. It wouldn't be the first or last feature to need some design adjustments when lang design met compiler reality. Happy to help with that, so that we can find a design that meets the requirements in the original RFC and any new issues that have arisen since then.

This is about RFC 2102:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2102

TC: What do we think?

"[type-layout] Document minimum size and alignment" reference#1482

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/reference/pull/1482

TC: This documents some properties proposed by RalfJ:

  • Every type, including unsized types, has a minimal size and a minimal alignment
  • For sized types, the minimal size and alignment match their regular size and alignment
  • For slices, the minimal size is 0 and the minimal alignment is the alignment of the element type
  • For dyn Trait, the minimal size is 0 and the minimal alignment is 1
  • For struct types with an unsized field, the minimal size and alignment is computed using the minimal size and alignment of that field
  • The minimal size of all types fits in isize

TC: scottmcm nominates this for us. What do we think?

"elaborate on slice wide pointer metadata" reference#1499

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/reference/pull/1499

TC: RalfJ proposes to update some language in the Reference to say this, after the changes:

  • A reference or Box<T> that is [dangling], misaligned, or points to an invalid value (using the actual dynamic type of the pointee in case of dynamically sized types).
  • Invalid metadata in a wide reference, Box<T>, or raw pointer. The requirement for the metadata is determined by the type of the unsized tail:
    • dyn Trait metadata is invalid if it is not a pointer to a vtable for Trait.
    • Slice metadata is invalid if the length is not a valid usize (i.e., it must not be read from uninitialized memory). Furthermore, for wide references and Box<T>, slice metadata is invalid if it makes the total size of the pointed-to value bigger than isize::MAX.

TC: What do we think?

"more explicitly explain the UB around immutable extern statics" reference#1502

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/reference/pull/1502

TC: RalfJ suggests to add to the Reference:

The bytes owned by an immutable binding or immutable static are immutable, unless those bytes are part of an [UnsafeCell<U>].

(Emphasis added.)

And:

Once Rust code runs, mutating an immutable static (from inside or outside Rust) is UB, except if the mutation happens inside an UnsafeCell.

TC: What do we think?

"RFC: Implementable trait aliases" rfcs#3437

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3437

TC: We discussed this in the lang planning meeting in June, and it looks like there have been updates since we last looked at this, so it's time for us to have another look since we seemed interested in this happening.

TC: What do we think?

"repr(discriminant = ...) for type aliases" rfcs#3659

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3659

TC: This RFC proposes to allow:

type Byte = u8;
#[repr(self::Byte)]
enum E {
    One,
    Two,
}

It requires that there be :: in the path, as above, so that we don't step on the space of valid representations.

TC: Josh proposed FCP merge and nominated. What do we think?

"Fix ambiguous cases of multiple & in elided self lifetimes" rust#117967

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/117967

TC: adetaylor proposes to adjust some rules for how elided lifetimes work. This was originally proposed for T-types FCP, but then they decided this was probably a lang matter after all.

TC: What do we think?

"Tracking issue for function attribute #[coverage]" rust#84605

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/84605

TC: This is about stabilizing a #[coverage(off)] attribute to exclude items from -Z instrument-coverage.

Josh proposed FCP merge and nominated this for us.

Let's go ahead and see if we have consensus to stabilize this other than the potential issue of applying it automatically to nested functions or inlined functions.

My proposal would be that coverage(off) should automatically apply to functions (and closures) nested inside the function in question, but that it shouldn't automatically apply to inlined functions.

Rationale: putting #[coverage(off)] on a function should apply to everything inside it for convenience, but things it calls might still want coverage for other reasons. I'd propose that if we want something that recursively disables coverage, that should be an additional attribute.

However, this is a loosely held position, and I'd love to see a good argument / use case for also disabling it on inlined functions.

Correspondingly, there are two open questions about applying this automatically to nested functions and to inlined functions.

Checkboxes are here:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/84605#issuecomment-1937373497

TC: What do we think?

"Stabilize extended_varargs_abi_support" rust#116161

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/116161

TC: This stabilization was nominated for us, with pnkfelix commenting:

Just to add on to @cjgillot 's comment above: @wesleywiser and I could not remember earlier today whether T-lang wants to own FCP'ing changes like this that are restricted to extending the set of calling-conventions (i.e. the conv in extern "conv" fn foo(...)), which is largely a detail about what platforms one is interoperating with, and not about changing the expressiveness of the Rust language as a whole in the abstract.

(My own gut reaction is that T-compiler is a more natural owner for this than T-lang, but I wasn't certain and so it seems best to let the nomination stand and let the two teams duke it out.)

TC: What do we think about 1) this stabilization, and 2) whether we want to own this?

"Don't make statement nonterminals match pattern nonterminals" rust#120221

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120221

TC: CE handed this one to us, since it changes the contract of macro matchers.

Here's the code that does not work today that we would make work:

macro_rules! m {
    ($pat:pat) => {};
    ($stmt:stmt) => {};
}

macro_rules! m2 {
    ($stmt:stmt) => {
        m! { $stmt }
        //~^ ERROR expected pattern
    };
}

m2! { let x = 1 }

This code does not work because we consider :stmt to be a possible :pat even though we then always reject it later in the process. By saying that :stmt cannot be a :pat, we make this code work.

We discussed this in the meeting on 2024-03-27:

CE: Right now the tokens that a macro matcher may begin with is a stable guarantee. We are relaxing the assumption that pattern matchers may begin with statement metavariables ($var whose type is stmt), because when we actually try to parse such a pattern, we are always guaranteed to fail. This only allows more code to compile, and would only break future code if we specifically wanted to begin patterns with statement metavariable.

scottmcm: I agree that it's weird to allow a :stmt in a pattern, so am happy to say we won't. Let's see what others think, since this conversation was in a sparsely-attended triage meeting:

scottmcm: The other thing we explored was what it would take to make this actually work, since you can actually put an :expr into a pattern. But CE argued that we don't actually like that that works, it's just something we're stuck with because people used it before :literal was available, which seems fair.

TC: What do we think?

"Initial support for auto traits with default bounds" rust#120706

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120706

TC: This is related to this MCP about a path toward async drop and scoped tasks:

https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/727

TC: petrochenkov gives some background:

So, what are the goals here:

  • We want to have a possibility to add new auto traits that are added to all bound lists by default on the current edition. The examples of such traits could be Leak, Move, SyncDrop or something else, it doesn't matter much right now. The desired behavior is similar to the current Sized trait. Such behavior is required for introducing !Leak or !SyncDrop types in a backward compatible way. (Both Leak and SyncDrop are likely necessary for properly supporting libraries for scoped async tasks and structured concurrency.)
  • It's not clear whether it can be done backward compatibly and without significant perf regressions, but that's exactly what we want to find out. Right now we encounter some cycle errors and exponential blow ups in the trait solver, but there's a chance that they are fixable with the new solver.
  • Then we want to land the change into rustc under an option, so it becomes available in bootstrap compiler. Then we'll be able to do standard library experiments with the aforementioned traits without adding hundreds of #[cfg(not(bootstrap))]s.
  • Based on the experiments, we can come up with some scheme for the next edition, in which such bounds are added more conservatively.
  • Relevant blog posts - https://without.boats/blog/changing-the-rules-of-rust/, https://without.boats/blog/follow-up-to-changing-the-rules-of-rust/ and https://without.boats/blog/generic-trait-methods-and-new-auto-traits/, https://without.boats/blog/the-scoped-task-trilemma/
  • Larger compiler team MCP including this feature - MCP: Low level components for async drop compiler-team#727, it gives some more context

We discussed this in the async WG on 2024-03-25 and commented:

This is interesting work, but there's a lot to review here. We'd be particularly interested in seeing something in the way of a design document here, specifically e.g. with respect to when these bounds are added and when they are not, and how they interact with the ? bounds. Seeing the algorithm spelled out in words and in theory would definitely help us understand this. The best place to put this may be in the rustc-dev-guide.

The question here is whether we want to charter this as an experiment.

"Support ?Trait bounds in supertraits and dyn Trait under a feature gate" rust#121676

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121676

TC: This is related to this MCP about a path toward async drop and scoped tasks:

https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/727

TC: petrochenkov gives some background:

Summary:

  • Initial support for auto traits with default bounds #120706 introduces a way to add new auto traits that are appended to all bound lists by default, similarly to existing Sized. Such traits may include Leak, SyncDrop or similar, see Initial support for auto traits with default bounds #120706 (comment) for more detailed motivation.
  • To opt out from bounds added by default the ?Trait syntax is used, but such "maybe" bounds are not supported in some contexts like supertrait lists and dyn Trait + ... lists, because Sized is not added by default in those context.
  • This PR adds a feature for supporting trait Trait1: ?Trait2, dyn Trait1 + ?Trait2 and also multiple maybe bounds in the same list ?Trait1 + ?Trait2, because the new traits need to be added by default in those contexts too, and ?Sized + ?Leak may also make sense.
  • We need this to be available in bootstrap compiler, to make experiments on standard library without adding too many #[cfg(not(bootstrap))]s
  • Larger compiler team MCP including this feature - MCP: Low level components for async drop compiler-team#727, it gives some more context

TC: The question here is whether we want to charter this as an experiment.

"Elaborate on the invariants for references-to-slices" rust#121965

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121965

TC: scottmcm filed this issue and explains:

The length limit on slices is clearly a safety invariant, and I'd like it to also be a validity invariant. With function parameter metadata making progress in LLVM, I'd really like to be able to use it when &[_] is passed as a scalar pair, in particular.

The documentation for references is cagey about what exactly is a validity invariant, so for now just elaborate on the consequences of the existing safety rules on slices the length restriction follows from the size_of_val restriction as a way to help discourage people from trying to violate them.

I also made the existing warning stronger, since I'm fairly sure it's already UB to violate at least the "references must be non-null" rule, rather than it just being that it "might be UB in the future".

Then joboet nominated this for us with:

Given that slice::from_raw_parts already states that "the total size len * mem::size_of::<T>() of the slice must be no larger than isize::MAX" and that its behaviour is undefined otherwise, I'd say that this is entirely uncontroversial. Still, I'd appreciate some team sign-off on this, I think this concerns lang?

RalfJ thinks this should probably be a dual T-lang / T-opsem FCP.

TC: What do we think?

"#![crate_name = EXPR] semantically allows EXPR to be a macro call but otherwise mostly ignores it" rust#122001

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/122001

TC: In previous stable versions of Rust, #![crate_name = EXPR] worked. That is, within EXPR we expanded and then used macro calls such as concat.

However, due to:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/117584

we broke this, and then we shipped it in stable Rust v1.77.

Except, we only half broke it. It doesn't work, but neither is it a hard error. It just quietly ignores the result.

We discussed this in the meeting on 2024-03-27 and agreed this was the worst of all worlds, and so we should at a minimum break it completely, and then we could always later decide to relax the hard error and make it work again by reverting #117584. On that basis, scottmcm proposed FCP merge.

TC: What do we think?

"Assert that the first assert! expression is bool" rust#122661

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122661

TC: estebank describes this issue for us:

In the desugaring of assert! in 2024 edition, assign the condition expression to a bool biding in order to provide better type errors when passed the wrong thing.

The span will point only at the expression, and not the whole assert! invocation.

error[E0308]: mismatched types
  --> $DIR/issue-14091.rs:2:13
   |
LL |     assert!(1,1);
   |             ^ expected `bool`, found integer

We no longer mention the expression needing to implement the Not trait.

error[E0308]: mismatched types
  --> $DIR/issue-14091-2.rs:15:13
   |
LL |     assert!(x, x);
   |             ^ expected `bool`, found `BytePos`

In <=2021 edition, we still accept any type that implements Not<Output = bool>.

TC: And pnkfelix nominates this for us:

At the very least, we might need to tie such a change to an edition.

I am not certain whether this decision would be a T-lang matter or a T-libs-api one. I'll nominate for T-lang for now.

(Namely: The question is whether we can start enforcing a rule that the first expression to assert! must be of bool type, which is how the macro is documented, but its current behavior is a little bit more general, as demonstrated in my prior comment)

There is a design space here. E.g. one set of options is:

  1. (stable Rust behavior): in all editions, support arbitrary impl Not<Output=bool> for first parameter to assert!;
  2. in edition >= 2024, support just Deref<Target=bool> for first parameter to assert! (e.g. by expanding to let x: &bool = &$expr;), or
  3. (this PR): in edition >= 2024, support just bool for first parameter to assert!.

(And then there's variations thereof about how to handle editions < 2024, but that's a separate debate IMO.)

TC: What do we think?

"Emit a warning if a match is too complex" rust#122685

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122685

TC: Nadri nominates this for us and describes the situation:

Dear T-lang, this PR adds a warning that cannot be silenced, triggered when a match takes a really long time to analyze (in the order of seconds). This is to help users figure out what's taking so long and fix it.

We could make the limit configurable or the warning allowable. I argue that's not necessary because crater showed zero regressions with the current limit, and it's be pretty easy in general to split up a match into smaller matches to avoid blowup.

We're still figuring out the exact limit, but does the team approve in principle?

(As an aside, awhile back someone showed how to lower SAT to exhaustiveness checking with match. Probably that would hit this limit.)

TC: What do we think?

"Stabilize count, ignore, index, and length (macro_metavar_expr)" rust#122808

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122808

TC: c410-f3r proposes the following for stabilization:

Stabilization proposal

This PR proposes the stabilization of a subset of #![feature(macro_metavar_expr)] or more specifically, the stabilization of count, ignore, index and length.

What is stabilized

Count

The number of times a meta variable repeats in total.

macro_rules! count_idents {
    ( $( $i:ident ),* ) => {
        ${count($i)}
    };
}

fn main() {
    assert_eq!(count_idents!(a, b, c), 3);
}

Ignore

Binds a meta variable for repetition, but expands to nothing.

macro_rules! count {
    ( $( $i:stmt ),* ) => {{
        0 $( + 1 ${ignore($i)} )*
    }};
}

fn main() {
    assert_eq!(count!(if true {} else {}, let _: () = (), || false), 3);
}

Index

The current index of the inner-most repetition.

trait Foo {
    fn bar(&self) -> usize;
}

macro_rules! impl_tuple {
    ( $( $name:ident ),* ) => {
        impl<$( $name, )*> Foo for ($( $name, )*)
        where
            $( $name: AsRef<[u8]>, )*
        {
            fn bar(&self) -> usize {
                let mut sum: usize = 0;
                $({
                    const $name: () = ();
                    sum = sum.wrapping_add(self.${index()}.as_ref().len());
                })*
                sum
            }
        }
    };
}

impl_tuple!(A, B, C, D);

fn main() {
}

Length

The current index starting from the inner-most repetition.

macro_rules! array_3d {
    ( $( $( $number:literal ),* );* ) => {
        [
            $(
                [
                    $( $number + ${length()}, )*
                ],
            )*
        ]
    };
}

fn main() {
    assert_eq!(array_3d!(0, 1; 2, 3; 4, 5), [[2, 3], [4, 5], [6, 7]]);
}

Motivation

Meta variable expressions not only facilitate the use of macros but also allow things that can't be done today like in the $index example.

An initial effort to stabilize this feature was made in #111908 but ultimately reverted because of possible obstacles related to syntax and expansion.

Nevertheless, #83527 (comment) tried to address some questions and fortunately the lang team accept #117050 the unblocking suggestions.

Here we are today after ~4 months so everything should be mature enough for wider use.

What isn't stabilized

$$ is not being stabilized due to unresolved concerns.

TC: I asked WG-macros for feedback on this here:

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/404510-wg-macros/topic/Partial.20macro_metavar_expr.20stabilization

TC: Josh proposed FCP merge on this stabilization.

"Raw Keywords" rfcs#3098

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3098

TC: We've at various times discussed that we had earlier decided that if we wanted to use a new keyword within an edition, we would write it as k#keyword, and for that reason, we prefer to not speculatively reserve keywords ahead of an edition (except, perhaps, when it's clear we plan to use it in the near future).

TC: Somewhat amusingly, however, we never in fact accepted that RFC. Back in 2021, we accepted scottmcm's proposal to cancel:

We discussed this RFC again in the lang team triage meeting today.

For the short-term goal of the reservation for the edition, we'll be moving forward on #3101 instead. As such, we wanted to leave more time for conversations about this one, and maybe use crater results from 3101 to make design changes,

@rfcbot cancel

Instead we accepted RFC 3101 that reserved ident#foo, ident"foo", ident'f', and ident#123 starting in the 2023 edition.

Reading through the history, here's what I see:

  • What do we want to do about Rust 2015 and Rust 2018? It's a breaking change to add this there. Is this OK? Do we want to do a crater run on this?
  • Would we have the stomach to actually do this? It's one thing to say that if we wanted to use a new keyword within an edition, we'd write k#keyword, but it's another to actually do it in the face of certain criticism about that being e.g. unergonomic. Would we follow through?

TC: What do we think?

"Supertrait item shadowing v2" rfcs#3624

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3624

TC: On 2024-04-24, we had discussed (on a gut check basis) a proposal from Amanieu to change method resolution such that when both a subtrait and one of its supertraits are in scope, shadowed methods from the subtrait would be chosen rather than resulting in ambiguity errors.

Most notably, this would allow the standard library to uplift methods from itertools, which they've been deferring for years due to no way to do so without causing breakage. But there are many other possible uses and reasons to believe this might be a good rule.

After our last discussion, we had asked for an RFC. This is that RFC. What do we think?

"Tracking issue for the start feature" rust#29633

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/29633

TC: Nils proposes to us that we delete the unstable #[start] attribute:

I think this issue should be closed and #[start] should be deleted. It's nothing but an accidentally leaked implementation detail that's a not very useful mix between "portable" entrypoint logic and bad abstraction.

I think the way the stable user-facing entrypoint should work (and works today on stable) is pretty simple:

  • std-using cross-platform programs should use fn main(). the compiler, together with std, will then ensure that code ends up at main (by having a platform-specific entrypoint that gets directed through lang_start in std to main - but that's just an implementation detail)
  • no_std platform-specific programs should use #![no_main] and define their own platform-specific entrypoint symbol with #[no_mangle], like main, _start, WinMain or my_embedded_platform_wants_to_start_here. most of them only support a single platform anyways, and need cfg for the different platform's ways of passing arguments or other things anyways

#[start] is in a super weird position of being neither of those two. It tries to pretend that it's cross-platform, but its signature is a total lie. Those arguments are just stubbed out to zero on Windows, for example. It also only handles the platform-specific entrypoints for a few platforms that are supported by std, like Windows or Unix-likes. my_embedded_platform_wants_to_start_here can't use it, and neither could a libc-less Linux program. So we have an attribute that only works in some cases anyways, that has a signature that's a total lie (and a signature that, as I might want to add, has changed recently, and that I definitely would not be comfortable giving any stability guarantees on), and where there's a pretty easy way to get things working without it in the first place.

Note that this feature has not been RFCed in the first place.

TC: What do we think?

"Stabilize anonymous_lifetime_in_impl_trait" rust#107378

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/107378

TC: We unnominated this back in October 2023 as more analysis seemed to be needed. Since then, nikomatsakis and tmandry have posted substantive analysis that it seems we should discuss.

"#[cold] on match arms" rust#120193

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120193

TC: Apparently our unstable likely and unlikely intrinsics don't work. There's a proposal to do some work on fixing that and stabilizing a solution here. The nominated question is whether we want to charter this as an experiment.

"add float semantics RFC" rfcs#3514

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3514

TC: In addition to documenting the current behavior carefully, this RFC (per RalfJ)

says we should allow float operations in const fn, which is currently not stable. This is a somewhat profound decision since it is the first non-deterministic operation we stably allow in const fn. (We already allow those operations in const/static initializers.)

TC: What do we think? tmandry proposed this for FCP merge back in October 2023.

"Tracking Issue for unicode and escape codes in literals" rust#116907

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/116907

TC: nnethercote has implemented most of RFC 3349 ("Mixed UTF-8 literals") and, based on implementation experience, argues that the remainder of the RFC should not be implemented:

I have a partial implementation of this RFC working locally (EDIT: now at #120286). The RFC proposes five changes to literal syntax. I think three of them are good, and two of them aren't necessary.

TC: What do we think?

"Proposal: Remove i128/u128 from the improper_ctypes lint" lang-team#255

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/255

TC: Trevor Gross describes the situation:

For a while, Rust's 128-bit integer types have been incompatible with those from C. The original issue is here rust-lang/rust#54341, with some more concise background information at the MCP here rust-lang/compiler-team#683

The current Beta of 1.77 will have rust-lang/rust#116672, which manually sets the alignment of i128 to make it ABI-compliant with any version of LLVM (clang does something similar now). 1.78 will have LLVM18 as the vendored version which fixes the source of this error.

Proposal: now that we are ABI-compliant, do not raise improper_ctypes on our 128-bit integers. I did some testing with abi-cafe and a more isolated https://github.com/tgross35/quick-abi-check during the time https://reviews.llvm.org/D86310 was being worked on, and verified everything lines up. (It would be great to have some fork of abi-cafe in tree, but that is a separate discussion.)

@joshtriplett mentioned that changing this lint needs a lang FCP https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/187780-t-compiler.2Fwg-llvm/topic/LLVM.20alignment.20of.20i128/near/398422037. cc @maurer

Reference change from when I was testing rust-lang/rust@c742908

TC: Josh nominates this for our discussion. What do we think?

"is operator for pattern-matching and binding" rfcs#3573

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3573

TC: Josh proposes for us that we should accept:

if an_option is Some(x) && x > 3 {
    println!("{x}");
}

And:

func(x is Some(y) && y > 3);

TC: The main topic discussed in the issue thread so far has been the degree to which Rust should have "two ways to do things". Probably the more interesting issue is how the binding and drop scopes for this should work.

TC: In the 2024-02-21 meeting (with limited attendance), we discussed how we should prioritize stabilizing let chains, and tmandry suggested we may want to allow those to settle first.

TC: What do we think, as a gut check?

"Unsafe fields" rfcs#3458

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3458

TC: Nearly ten years ago, on 2014-10-09, pnkfelix proposed unsafe fields in RFC 381:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/381

On 2017-05-04, Niko commented:

I am pretty strongly in favor of unsafe fields at this point. The only thing that holds me back is some desire to think a bit more about the "unsafe" model more generally.

Then, in 2023, Jacob Pratt refreshed this proposal with RFC 3458. It proposes that:

Fields may be declared unsafe. Unsafe fields may only be mutated (excluding interior mutability) or initialized in an unsafe context. Reading the value of an unsafe field may occur in either safe or unsafe contexts. An unsafe field may be relied upon as a safety invariant in other unsafe code.

E.g.:

struct Foo {
    safe_field: u32,
    /// Safety: Value must be an odd number.
    unsafe unsafe_field: u32,
}

// Unsafe field initialization requires an `unsafe` block.
// Safety: `unsafe_field` is odd.
let mut foo = unsafe {
    Foo {
        safe_field: 0,
        unsafe_field: 1,
    }
};

On 2024-05-21, Niko nominated this for us:

I'd like to nominate this RFC for discussion. I've not read the details of the thread but I think the concept of unsafe fields is something that comes up continuously and some version of it is worth doing.

TC: What do we think?

"RFC: Allow symbol re-export in cdylib crate from linked staticlib" rfcs#3556

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3556

TC: This seems to be about making the following work:

// kind is optional if it's been specified elsewhere, e.g. via the `-l` flag to rustc
#[link(name="ext", kind="static")]
extern {
    #[no_mangle]
    pub fn foo();

    #[no_mangle]
    pub static bar: std::ffi::c_int;
}

There are apparently use cases for this.

What's interesting is that apparently it already does, but we issue a warning that is wrong:

warning: `#[no_mangle]` has no effect on a foreign function
  --> src/lib.rs:21:5
   |
21 |     #[no_mangle]
   |     ^^^^^^^^^^^^ help: remove this attribute
22 |     pub fn foo_rfc3556_pub_with_no_mangle();
   |     ---------------------------------------- foreign function
   |
   = warning: this was previously accepted by the compiler but is being phased out; it will become a hard error in a future release!
   = note: symbol names in extern blocks are not mangled

TC: One of the author's asks of us is that we don't make this into a hard error (e.g. with the new edition).

TC: What do we think?

"Better errors with bad/missing identifiers in MBEs" rust#118939

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/118939

TC: The idea here seems to be to improve some diagnostics around macro_rules, but this seems to be done by way of reserving the macro_rules token more widely, which is a breaking change. Petrochenkov has objected to it on that basis, given that reserving macro_rules minimally has been the intention since we hope it will one day disappear in favor of macro. What do we think?

"Uplift clippy::invalid_null_ptr_usage lint" rust#119220

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/119220

TC: Urgau proposes this for us:

This PR aims at uplifting the clippy::invalid_null_ptr_usage lint into rustc, this is similar to the clippy::invalid_utf8_in_unchecked uplift a few months ago, in the sense that those two lints lint on invalid parameter(s), here a null pointer where it is unexpected and UB to pass one.

invalid_null_ptr_usages

(deny-by-default)

The invalid_null_ptr_usages lint checks for invalid usage of null pointers.

Example

// Undefined behavior
unsafe { std::slice::from_raw_parts(ptr::null(), 0); }
// Not Undefined behavior
unsafe { std::slice::from_raw_parts(NonNull::dangling().as_ptr(), 0); }

Produces:

error: calling this function with a null pointer is undefined behavior, even if the result of the function is unused, consider using a dangling pointer instead
  --> $DIR/invalid_null_ptr_usages.rs:14:23
   |
LL |     let _: &[usize] = std::slice::from_raw_parts(ptr::null(), 0);
   |                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-----------^^^^
   |                                                  |
   |                                                  help: use a dangling pointer instead: `core::ptr::NonNull::dangling().as_ptr()`

Explanation

Calling methods who's safety invariants requires non-null pointer with a null pointer is undefined behavior.

The lint use a list of functions to know which functions and arguments to checks, this could be improved in the future with a rustc attribute, or maybe even with a #[diagnostic] attribute.

TC: What do we think?

"Stop skewing inference in ?'s desugaring" rust#122412

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122412

TC: Waffle nominates this breaking change for us:

This changes expr?'s desugaring like so (simplified, see code for more info):

// old
match expr {
    Ok(val) => val,
    Err(err) => return Err(err),
}

// new
match expr {
    Ok(val) => val,
    Err(err) => core::convert::absurd(return Err(err)),
}

// core::convert
pub const fn absurd<T>(x: !) -> T { x }

This prevents ! from the return from skewing inference:

// previously: ok (never type spontaneous decay skews inference, `T = ()`)
// with this pr: can't infer the type for `T`
Err(())?;

We discussed this on 2024-03-20. On the one hand, people were hesitant to block incremental progress, but on the other, people were hesitant to add a special case if we could address a more general case. There was, I would say, appetite for taking a bigger bite here, but people were uncertain if there were any bigger bites that were feasible other than those discussed to support the never type generally, such as disabling fallback to ().

In terms of next steps, we wanted to see an answer about the pros and cons of doing this for return generally, which @WaffleLapkin has now answered:

it made me wonder whether it would be feasible to change return in general to be a free type variable instead of !?

@scottmcm I'm not sure. I don't think it's unfeasible, but it sure is harder than this.

The issues are:

  • Need to add fallback for those type variables too, so that return; works
  • { return; } (which is currently ! even though there is ;) needs to be special cased in a different way
  • Will break strictly more things

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not. It's kinda weird.

and we wanted to see the results of the crater run that we know that @WaffleLapkin is working to make happen.

When taking this back up, in addition to those details, we wanted to specifically consider how this incremental step may be addressing known footguns with unsafe code such as that in:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/51125

TC: What do we think?

"panic in a no-unwind function leads to not dropping local variables" rust#123231

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/123231

TC: RalfJ nominates this for us. Consider this code:

#![feature(c_unwind)]

struct Noise;
impl Drop for Noise {
    fn drop(&mut self) {
        eprintln!("Noisy Drop");
    }
}

extern "C" fn test() {
    let _val = Noise;
    panic!("heyho");
}

fn main() {
    test();
}

It doesn't print anything. Should it?

"Uplift clippy::double_neg lint as double_negation" rust#126604

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/126604

TC: This proposes to lint against cases like this:

fn main() {
    let x = 1;
    let _b = --x; //~ WARN use of a double negation
}

TC: What do we think?

"Lang discussion: Item-level const {} blocks, and const { assert!(...) }" lang-team#251

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/251

TC: This issue was raised due to discussion in a T-libs-api call. Josh gives the context:

In discussion of rust-lang/libs-team#325 (a proposal for a compile-time assert macro), the idea came up to allow const {} blocks at item level, and then have people use const { assert!(...) }.

@rust-lang/libs-api would like some guidance from @rust-lang/lang about whether lang is open to toplevel const { ... } blocks like this, which would influence whether we want to add a compile-time assert macro, as well as what we want to call it (e.g. static_assert! vs const_assert! vs some other name).

Filing this issue to discuss in a lang meeting. This issue is not seeking any hard commitment to add such a construct, just doing a temperature check.

CAD97 noted:

To ensure that it's noted: if both item and expression const blocks are valid in the same position (i.e. in statement position), a rule to disambiguate would be needed (like for statement versus expression if-else). IMO it would be quite unfortunate for item-level const blocks to be evaluated pre-mono if that same const block but statement-level would be evaluated post-mono.

Additionally: since const { assert!(...) } is post-mono (due to using the generic context), it's potentially desirable to push people towards using const _: () = assert!(...); (which is pre-mono) whenever possible (not capturing generics).

TC: What do we think?

"Add lint against function pointer comparisons" rust#118833

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/118833

TC: In the 2024-01-03 call, we developed a tentative consensus to lint against direct function pointer comparison and to push people toward using ptr::fn_addr_eq. We decided to ask T-libs-api to add this. There's now an open proposal for that here:

https://github.com/rust-lang/libs-team/issues/323

One question that has come up is whether we would expect this to work like ptr::addr_eq and have separate generic parameters, e.g.:

/// Compares the *addresses* of the two pointers for equality,
/// ignoring any metadata in fat pointers.
///
/// If the arguments are thin pointers of the same type,
/// then this is the same as [`eq`].
pub fn addr_eq<T: ?Sized, U: ?Sized>(p: *const T, q: *const U) -> bool { .. }

Or whether we would prefer that fn_addr_eq enforced type equality of the function pointers. Since we're the ones asking for this, we probably want to develop a consensus here. We discussed this in the call on 2024-01-10, then we opened a Zulip thread:

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/Signature.20of.20.60ptr.3A.3Afn_addr_eq.60

TC: On this subject, scottmcm raised this point, with which pnkfelix seemed to concur:

I do feel like if I saw code that had fn1.addr() == fn2.addr() (if FnPtr were stabilized), I'd write a comment saying "isn't that what fn_addr_eq is for?"

If the answer ends up being "no, actually, because I have different types", that feels unfortunate even if it's rare.

(Like how addr_eq(a, b) is nice even if with strict provenance I could write a.addr() == b.addr() anyway.)

TC: scottmcm also asserted confidence that allowing mixed-type pointer comparisons is correct for ptr::addr_eq since comparing the addresses of *const T, *const [T; N], and *const [T] are all reasonable. I pointed out that, if that's reasonable, then ptr::fn_addr_eq is the higher-ranked version of that, since for the same use cases, it could be reasonable to compare function pointers that return those three different things or accept them as arguments.

TC: Adding to that, scottmcm noted that comparing addresses despite lifetime differences is also compelling, e.g. comparing fn(Box<T>) -> &'static mut T with for<'a> fn(Box<T>) -> &'a mut T.

TC: Other alternatives we considered were not stabilizing ptr::fn_addr_eq at all and instead stabilizing FnPtr so people could write ptr::addr_eq(fn1.addr(), fn2.addr()), or expecting that people would write instead fn1 as *const () == fn2 as *const ().

TC: Recently CAD97 raised an interesting alternative:

From the precedent of ptr::eq and ptr::addr_eq, I'd expect a "ptr::fn_eq" to have one generic type and a "ptr::fn_addr_eq" to have two. Even if ptr::fn_eq's implementation is just an address comparison, it still serves as a documentation point to call out the potential pitfalls with comparing function pointers.

TC: What do we think?


TC: Separately, on the 2024-01-10 call, we discussed some interest use cases for function pointer comparison, especially when it's indirected through PartialEq. We had earlier said we didn't want to lint when such comparisons were indirected through generics, but we did address the non-generic case of simply composing such comparisons.

One example of how this is used is in the standard library, in Waker::will_wake:

https://doc.rust-lang.org/core/task/struct.Waker.html#method.will_wake

It's comparing multiple function pointers via a #[derive(PartialEq)] on the RawWakerVTable.

We decided on 2024-01-01 that this case was interesting and we wanted to think about it further. We opened a discussion thread about this:

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/Function.20pointer.20comparison.20and.20.60PartialEq.60

Since then, another interesting use case in the standard library was raised, in the formatting machinery:

https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/core/fmt/rt.rs.html

What do we think about these, and would we lint on derived PartialEq cases like these or no?

"Implement lint against unexpected unary precedence" rust#121364

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121364

TC: The proposal is to lint against:

-2.pow(2); // Equals -4.

These would instead be written:

-(2.pow(2)); // Equals -4.

TC: This is a subset of:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/117161

which is also nominated. Whereas the #117161 proposal is to lint on both binary op and unary op cases, this proposal is to lint only on unary op cases. The proposal for this subset came out a discussion with scottmcm.

TC: What do we think?

"Uplift clippy::precedence lint" rust#117161

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/117161

TC: The proposal is to lint against:

-2.pow(2); // Equals -4.
1 << 2 + 3; // Equals 32.

These would instead be written:

-(2.pow(2)); // Equals -4.
1 << (2 + 3); // Equals 32.

Prompts for discussion:

  • Is this an appropriate lint for rustc?
  • How do other languages handle precedence here?
  • Is minus special enough to treat differently than other unary operators (e.g. !, *, &)?

"Should Rust still ignore SIGPIPE by default?" rust#62569

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/62569

TC: Prior to main() being executed, the Rust startup code makes a syscall to change the handling of SIGPIPE. Many believe that this is wrong thing for a low-level language like Rust to do, because 1) it makes it impossible to recover what the original value was, and 2) means things like seccomp filters must be adjusted for this.

It's also just, in a practical sense, wrong for most CLI applications.

This seems to have been added back when Rust had green threads and then forgotten about. But it's been an ongoing footgun.

Making a celebrity appearance, Rich Felker, the author of MUSL libc, notes:

As long as Rust is changing signal dispositions inside init code in a way that the application cannot suppress or undo, it is fundamentally unusable to implement standard unix utilities that run child processes or anything that needs to preserve the signal dispositions it was invoked with and pass them on to children. Changing inheritable process state behind the application's back is just unbelievably bad behavior and does not belong in a language runtime for a serious language

As an example, if you implement find in Rust, the -exec option will invoke its commands with SIGPIPE set to SIG_IGN, so that they will not properly terminate on broken pipe. But if you just made it set SIGPIPE to SIG_DFL before invoking the commands, now it would be broken in the case where the invoking user intentionally set SIGPIPE to SIG_IGN so that the commands would not die on broken pipe.

There was discussion in 2019 about fixing this over an edition, but nothing came of it.

Are we interested in fixing it over this one?

Strawman (horrible) proposal: We could stop making this pre-main syscall in Rust 2024 and have cargo fix insert this syscall at the start of every main function.

(In partial defense of the strawman, it gets us directly to the arguably best end result while having an automatic semantics-preserving edition migration and it avoids the concerns about lang/libs coupling that Mara raised. The edition migration could add a comment above this inserted code telling people under what circumstances they should either keep or delete the added line.)

"types team / lang team interaction" rust#116557

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/116557

TC: nikomatsakis nominated this:

We had some discussion about types/lang team interaction. We concluded a few things:

  • Pinging the team like @rust-lang/lang is not an effective way to get attention. Nomination is the only official way to get attention.
  • It's ok to nominate things in an "advisory" capacity but not block (e.g., landing a PR), particularly as most any action can ultimately be reversed. But right now, triagebot doesn't track closed issues, so that's a bit risky.

Action items:

  • We should fix triagebot to track closed issues.

TC: What do we think?

"Match ergonomics 2024" rfcs#3627

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3627

TC: In the design meeting on 2024-05-15, we discussed Match Ergonomics 2024. We liked what we heard, and people wanted to see this move forward modulo adopting Option 1 (make mut x in inherited patterns an error). This change was made, and in the meeting on 2024-05-24, we resolved the concerns about this.and it moved into FCP.

Since then, tmandry has raised a concern to ask what tradeoffs we're making with the no ref mut behind & rule. The purpose of this rule is to allow patterns like this:

let &(i, j, [s]) = &(63, 42, &mut [String::from("")]); //~ OK
//~^ i: i32, j: i32, s: &String

One motivation is that there are already cases in patterns where immutability takes precedence over mutability (so it usually works). E.g.:

let [a] = &mut &[42]; // x: &i32
let [a] = &&mut [42]; // x: &i32

As the RFC says,

This change, in addition to being generally useful, makes the match ergonomics rules more consistent by ensuring that immutability always takes precedence over mutability.

The main drawback seems to be that, with this rule, one cannot:

consistently write a &mut pattern that matches an inherited reference regardless of whether the binding mode has been converted to ref by an outer & so long as there is a &mut type involved.

That is, this is allowed:

//@ edition: 2024
let  [[&mut x]] = [&mut [42]]; //~ OK, x: i32

(Because the ref mut is not behind an &.)

But these are not:

//@ edition: 2024
let &[[&mut x]] = &[&mut [42]]; //~ ERROR
let  [[&mut x]] = &[&mut [42]]; //~ ERROR

(Because the ref mut is behind an &.)

However, one can write, and is intended to write, these instead:

//@ edition: 2024
let  [[&x]] =  [&mut [42]]; //~ OK
let &[[&x]] = &[&mut [42]]; //~ OK
let  [[&x]] = &[&mut [42]]; //~ OK

These take advantage of the fact that & matches &mut. The reason that & matching &mut was included in this RFC (rather than e.g. being deferred to future work) was for explicitly this reason.


TC: Separately, tmandry writes:

Everything in this RFC, including the migration lint, is either already in nightly under an experimental feature gate, or waiting on PR review.

Fantastic, thanks for your efforts here. Ideally I would like to see this go in as part of the unstable 2024 edition once this RFC lands, i.e. not blocking on a stabilization FCP before that happens.

TC: Does this sound right to us?

"[RFC] core::marker::Freeze in bounds" rfcs#3633

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3633

TC: There's now a proposal on the table for the stabilization of the Freeze trait in bounds.

TC: We'll probably need to schedule a design meeting to work through this.

"RFC: Return Type Notation" rfcs#3654

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3654

TC: Niko has now posted the long-awaited RFC for RTN in bounds and where clauses.

Return type notation (RTN) gives a way to reference or bound the type returned by a trait method. The new bounds look like T: Trait<method(..): Send> or T::method(..): Send. The primary use case is to add bounds such as Send to the futures returned by async fns in traits and -> impl Future functions, but they work for any trait function defined with return-position impl trait (e.g., where T: Factory<widgets(..): DoubleEndedIterator> would also be valid).

This RFC proposes a new kind of type written <T as Trait>::method(..) (or T::method(..) for short). RTN refers to "the type returned by invoking method on T".

To keep this RFC focused, it only covers usage of RTN as the Self type of a bound or where-clause. The expectation is that, after accepting this RFC, we will gradually expand RTN usage to other places as covered under Future Possibilities. As a notable example, supporting RTN in struct field types would allow constructing types that store the results of a call to a trait -> impl Trait method, making them more suitable for use in public APIs.

TC: We'll probably need to schedule a design meeting to work through this.

"Implement PartialOrd and Ord for Discriminant" rust#106418

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/106418

TC: We discussed this last in the meeting on 2024-03-13. scottmcm has now raised on concern on the issue and is planning to make a counter-proposal:

I remain concerned about exposing this with no opt-out on an unrestricted generic type @rfcbot concern overly-broad

I'm committing to making an alternative proposal because I shouldn't block without one. Please hold my feet to the fire if that's no up in a week.

Basically, I have an idea for how we might be able to do this, from #106418 (comment)

  1. Expose the variant ordering privately, only accessible by the type owner/module.

Solution 2. is obviously more desirable, but AFAIK Rust can't do that and there is no proposal to add a feature like that.

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/106418#issuecomment-1994833151

"Fallout from expansion of redundant import checking" rust#121708

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/121708

TC: We discussed this in the meeting on 2024-03-13. The feelings expressed included:

  • We don't want to create a perverse incentive for people to expand existing lints rather than to create new ones where appropriate just because there's less process for expanding the meaning of an existing lint.
  • It would be good if potentially-disruptive expansions of an existing lint either:
    • Had a machine-applicable fix.
    • Or had a new name.
  • We don't want to require a new lint name for each expansion.
  • We don't want to require a crater run for each change to a lint.
  • There are two ways to prevent disruption worth exploring:
    • Prevent potentially-disruptive changes from hitting master.
    • Respond quickly to early indications of disruption once the changes hit master.
  • Compiler maintainers have a sense of what might be disruptive and are cautious to avoid it. It may be OK to have a policy that is not perfectly measurable.

TC: tmandry volunteered to draft a policy proposal.

"What are the guarantees around which constants (and callees) in a function get monomorphized?" rust#122301

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/122301

TC: The8472 asks whether this code, which compiles today, can be relied upon:

const fn panic<T>() {
    struct W<T>(T);
    impl<T> W<T> {
        const C: () = panic!();
    }
    W::<T>::C
}

struct Invoke<T, const N: usize>(T);

impl<T, const N: usize> Invoke<T, N> {
    const C: () = match N {
        0 => (),
        // Not called for `N == 0`, so not monomorphized.
        _ => panic::<T>(),
    };
}

fn main() {
    let _x = Invoke::<(), 0>::C;
}

The8472 notes that this is a useful property and that there are use cases for this in the compiler and the standard library, at least unless or until we adopt something like const if:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/3582

RalfJ has pointed out to The8472 that the current behavior might not be intentional and notes:

It's not opt-dependent, but it's also unclear how we want to resolve the opt-dependent issue. Some proposals involve also walking all items "mentioned" in a const. That would be in direct conflict with your goal here I think. To be clear I think that's a weakness of those proposals. But if that turns out to be the only viable strategy then we'll have to decide what we want more: using const tricks to control what gets monomorphized, or not having optimization-dependent errors.

One crucial part of this construction is that everything involved is generic. If somewhere in the two "branches" you end up calling a monomorphic function, then that may have its constants evaluated even if it is in the "dead" branch or it may not, it depends on which functions are deemed cross-crate-inlinable. That's basically what #122814 is about.

TC: The question to us is whether we want to guarantee this behavior. What do we think?

"Policy for lint expansions" rust#122759

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/122759

TC: In the call on 2024-03-13, we discussed this issue raised by tmandry:

"Fallout from expansion of redundant import checking"

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/121708

During the call, the thoughts expressed included:

  • We don't want to create a perverse incentive for people to expand existing lints rather than to create new ones where appropriate just because there's less process for expanding the meaning of an existing lint.
  • It would be good if potentially-disruptive expansions of an existing lint either:
    • Had a machine-applicable fix.
    • Or had a new name.
  • We don't want to require a new lint name for each expansion.
  • We don't want to require a crater run for each change to a lint.
  • There are two ways to prevent disruption worth exploring:
    • Prevent potentially-disruptive changes from hitting master.
    • Respond quickly to early indications of disruption once the changes hit master.
  • Compiler maintainers have a sense of what might be disruptive and are cautious to avoid it. It may be OK to have a policy that is not perfectly measurable.

TC: tmandry volunteered to draft a policy proposal. He's now written up this proposal in this issue.

Background

When a lint is expanded to include many new cases, it adds significant complexity to the rollout of a toolchain to large codebases. Maintainers of these codebases are stuck with the choice of

  1. Disabling the existing lint while the toolchain is updated and new cases are fixed
  2. Fixing cases manually and updating the toolchain immediately

Both of these come with the problem of racing with other developers in a codebase who may land new code which triggers the expanded lint in a new compiler, but does not trigger the lint in an old compiler.

While it would be nice to solve this "raciness" once and for all, there are other considerations at play. Instead, we propose to support these users by either providing them with a new lint name to temporarily opt out of OR a machine-applicable fix which eases the pain of any races which might occur.

Note that this requirement only applies to significant lint expansions as measured by crater.

Policy

When an existing lint is expanded to include many new cases, we must provide either:

  1. A new lint name under the existing group, so that users may opt out of the expansion at least temporarily, or
  2. A MachineApplicable fix for the lint.

Exceptions to this policy may be made via Language Team FCP.

Here, we define "many new cases" as impacting more than 5% of the top-1000 crates on crates.io. This can be measured by counting the number of regressions from a crater run like the one below.

A crater run is not required before landing for every lint expansion. Reviewers should use their best judgment to decide if one is required. However, if a lint expansion lands that violates this requirement, or is strongly suspected to violate this requirement based on other impact, it should be reverted.

Crater command

To measure the impact of a lint as defined by this policy, you can use the following crater command:

@craterbot run name=<name> start=master#<hash1>+rustflags=-D<lint_name> end=master#<hash2>+rustflags=-D<lint_name> crates=top-1000 mode=check-only p=1

See the crater docs for more information.

TC: What do we think?

"Tracking Issue for externally implementable items" rust#125418

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/125418

TC: We reviewed in triage an RFC for externally implementable functions on 2024-05-22 along with a companion/alternative RFC for externally implementable statics. That discussion produced two more proposals, one from Amanieu and one from tmandry.

TC: We're likely going to need a design meeting to work through these.

Action item review

Pending lang team project proposals

None.

PRs on the lang-team repo

"Add soqb`s design doc to variadics notes" lang-team#236

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/pull/236

"Update auto traits design notes with recent discussion" lang-team#237

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/pull/237

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/pull/258

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/pull/267

RFCs waiting to be merged

None.

S-waiting-on-team

"warn less about non-exhaustive in ffi" rust#116863

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/116863

"Don't make statement nonterminals match pattern nonterminals" rust#120221

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120221

"Initial support for auto traits with default bounds" rust#120706

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120706

"Stabilize count, ignore, index, and length (macro_metavar_expr)" rust#122808

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122808

"Better errors with bad/missing identifiers in MBEs" rust#118939

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/118939

"Rename AsyncIterator back to Stream, introduce an AFIT-based AsyncIterator trait" rust#119550

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/119550

"Allow #[deny] inside #[forbid] as a no-op with a warning" rust#121560

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121560

"Fixup Windows verbatim paths when used with the include! macro" rust#125205

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/125205

Proposed FCPs

Check your boxes!

"Deny keyword lifetimes pre-expansion" rust#126762

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/126762

"Tracking Issue for const_cstr_from_ptr" rust#113219

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/113219

"Guard Patterns" rfcs#3637

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3637

"Bump elided_lifetimes_in_associated_constant to deny" rust#124211

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/124211

"repr(discriminant = ...) for type aliases" rfcs#3659

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3659

"Tracking issue for function attribute #[coverage]" rust#84605

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/84605

"Don't make statement nonterminals match pattern nonterminals" rust#120221

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120221

"Stabilize count, ignore, index, and length (macro_metavar_expr)" rust#122808

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/122808

"Supertrait item shadowing v2" rfcs#3624

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3624

"Stabilize anonymous_lifetime_in_impl_trait" rust#107378

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/107378

"add float semantics RFC" rfcs#3514

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3514

"[RFC] externally implementable functions" rfcs#3632

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3632

"Match ergonomics 2024" rfcs#3627

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3627

"Implement PartialOrd and Ord for Discriminant" rust#106418

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/106418

"Policy for lint expansions" rust#122759

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/122759

"RFC: inherent trait implementation" rfcs#2375

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2375

"Don't allow unwinding from Drop impls" rfcs#3288

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3288

"Add text for the CFG OS Version RFC" rfcs#3379

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3379

"Add support for use Trait::func" rfcs#3591

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3591

"RFC: #[derive(SmartPointer)]" rfcs#3621

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3621

"[RFC] Add #[export_ordinal(n)] attribute" rfcs#3641

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3641

"Async project goal" rfcs#3657

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3657

"Tracking Issue for nested field access in offset_of" rust#120140

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/120140

"Tracking Issue for enum access in offset_of" rust#120141

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/120141

"Stabilize associated type position impl Trait (ATPIT)" rust#120700

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/120700

"Allow #[deny] inside #[forbid] as a no-op with a warning" rust#121560

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/121560

"regression: let-else syntax restriction (right curly brace not allowed)" rust#121608

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/121608

Active FCPs

"Syntax for precise capturing: impl Trait + use<..>" rust#125836

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/125836

"#![crate_name = EXPR] semantically allows EXPR to be a macro call but otherwise mostly ignores it" rust#122001

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/122001

"RFC: Return Type Notation" rfcs#3654

Link: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3654

P-critical issues

None.

Select a repo