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# Meta Magicians session outline ### A. General information | | | | -------- | -------- | | Session title | Meta Magicians ring | | Facilitator | Boris | | Scribe | *Text* | | Time and date | 13:30 - 15:00, 29.10.2018. | | Material requirements | *Text* | | Space requirements | *Text* | | Number of participants | *Text* | ### B. Expected outcomes 1. ### C. Expected outputs 1. ### D. Timeline | Duration | Segment | Description | | -------- | -------- | -------- | | Example: *10min* | Example: *Introduction* | Example: *The facilitator will briefly introduce the outline of the session with emphasis on expected outomes and outputs. Also, rules of participation and conduct will be set.* | | *text* | *text* | *text* | ## Notes Rhys Aidan TJ Rush Bryant - issuing invoices Brooke William Simona - events - inclusivity Amy - inclusivity Jordy - interested in organization, reaching consensus on standards Andreas - Kauri -- getting to action - scale and communicate, keep invluded from St. Lucia - coming from St. Lucia, populaton of 200K - when I wanted to get involved in cc community, used localbitcoin - I was the only user -- throughout the Caribean and East Africa, same problems still exist --- William - open Q&A -- 200 people - about 20 got a chance to speak - as groups get larger -- 80% stay quiet - in first ring group -- 30min was intros - point from Boris, Aidan -- like Linux or Bitcoin - IETF made some mistakes? Hit level of growth -- costs of coordination, cause people pushed to the wayside - if every single person has to have input, then each person is added -- cost goes into coordination - company called Gore -- famous for making Goretex - no managers -- best place to work - they found that there need to be small groups rather than large groups -- by necessity TJ Rush - when we will meet next? - instead -- push to regions Bryant - started my own meetup in my own city - no one from community is at DevCon -- I'm representing that community - hierarchies of discussion - can continue to have larger discussions - Need better communication -- out of in person, to online - Asynch communications - when do we want to meet? what goals do we want to succeed? - succesful rings did pre-work to move forward - others, for alignment in the room very valuable - more onus to do pre-work - lot of rework -- tackle the same issue, with a slightly different angle - trying to claim attention space -- or physical space - like Security Tokens vs. - not having one canon - better communication method Boris - example Kauri - tying things more to an EIP process -- measurable outcomes - agreement or not - implement in hackathons Jordy - one of problem with EIPs - person who writes it is interested parties - good position to start -- maybe there is another group -- that has a different perspective - competition rather than collaboration - EIPs shouldn't be linked by interest -- more professional manner - leadership of an EIP -- not knowing a lot -- just to be sure you are hearing all the parties - what are the conflicts, what are shared, neutral arbitration - if the EIP, the owner has that much power TJ Rush - how do we have forcing functions -- that force to not have leaders - keep them fluid Aidan: * no processes -- blow it up to regional areas Amy * been experimenting * responsibility of coming into a circle, need to do work * observer, or taking action * teach them to someone else * they should be able to get there and ready to run * choose how to be governed * hierarchy - holocracy - consensys * close the gap of alignment * how inclusive trying to be? Boris * explanation rings * Operations Ring * there is no "volunteers" ring yet -- so maybe we need one (we technically have a group & private forum for volunteering) Jamie * starts with personal responsibility * people feel responsible * create a tension -- in order * can't decentralize everything * have to have structure * can build trust * for example with Operations Ring -- there is a multisig * resources need to be managed -- need people to help with management * how do you deal with resources as part of centralization? ?? * management if there is a lot of money * what if proposals are made to receive funding? William * large issue around funds * maybe EthMagicians never want to hold funds * money is a horrible thing * money needs a bit of organization -- maybe * more pure opinion if are no salaries Boris * explain there isn't a lot of money * opinion: can we only use the donation funds for events William * making an event * how do we give out money Boris * IETF uses host organizations Jamie * Internet Society is the partner to IETF * Can we move the money to a separate entity * any resources is power * not just money -- numbering scheme on EIPs Aidan * how do we take whatever we have here -- bring it back to where we're from * how do we support more people like yourself * this conversation is most important for next council * livestreaming is great James * making it so that Magicians don't have to worry about money * separate body? we can do our thing * not mixing them sounds like a good thing, sounds like a compromise Peter Pan * syndicate model -- pledge money to a cause, angel fund * propose things, which people should fund or not * individual organizations decide how much to fund Bryant * interesting use of money to servic infrastructure * vote with their money, donating to smaller groups that form * end of the day there is a need for infra -- including infra to handle money * same thing with resource -- take some money to run, common infra we rely on * money is best used for that sort of thing, for any group * everyone has to fundraise themselves Boris * costs of volunteers $20K MP * what if one group wants to fundraise for getting something built -- eg. signal * can we still trust people to use the name EthMagicians and raise funds Bryant * scapegoat co that is formed to do invoices Brooke * if scapegoat takes invoices, then will be taxed * should we non profit? non profits are complexed Bryant "scapegoat international" MP * can we use Giveth * non binding votes * fundraising is very difficult Brooke * getting ahead of ourselves * non financial means of supporting sub groups James * stuff with fundraising that could be under entity * grant process or whatever * signaling ring -- never once thought I'm representing EthMagicians * never said "we're from EthMagicians" -- asked for our project to exist Jamie * these are resources, affiliation * not all of us have jobs at organizations that can fund things * people that want to participate that flights and things are a big burden * trying to enable process * like signaling notion Amy * focused on operational budget rather than future funding * have that budget * align partnerships -- we do have agreement from these partners Boris: * ask for consensus on NOT fundraising outside operational costs MP: * way to express opinions on funded projects -- because we are scaling quite fast Williams: * anyone should be able to do an EthMagicians event? * empower all people Peter: * doesn't like voting Simona: * voting not inclusive Jamie: * other rings signal Brooke: * everyone and no one is a magician * no one can and can't * but ... we do need to recognize that people will want to borrow the legitimacy of the name Aidan * from an open source software perspective * want to have remote / distributed hackathon * Colony has a repo on how to have a remote hackathon * Colony never said no one has to have permission * we have all the best practices out there * make things as forkable as possible Peter * adding to coordination and borrowing legitimacy * the signal of Magicians is provided by individuals Brooke * inside the dis-organization * from outside - EthMagicians is being pointed from the outside * potential for abuse MP * I think that voting and signaling are different things * don't want to hard vote * there should be signaling to prevent these things * forming an organization -- one of my guys wants to do something political * how do we define our goals? what is and is not political? * if rough consenus is achieved Jordy * if we are an organization or not * if we are, then there are limitations * we need governance -- don't care about democracy or dictatorship * if we act as an organization, need to take those steps MP * the first form of Ethereum activism * we want to jump on this as activism Bryant * culture -- something between organization and anarchy * if you don't ascribe to the model * signal that people should revisit * not just a pool of water on the floor Jamie * as individuals * it is loose * are we an organization? there is a lot of fictional thinking, decentralized vs formal * a human organization is formed -- we know how to organize * "an institution" --> those geese are coming to consensus * loose organization * some people want a more legalistic approach William * one is allocation around resources * beneficial to look at EthMagicians that has some organized parts to it * there is something organizational / institutional * stick with that giant anarchy * centralization around resources -- rules around the resources * eg website has rules Aidan * allow culture to define entries and exits * if we formalize too much Brooke * shill event? * EthMagicians Shill fest -- then we need to solve it Aidan * will signal that it is a shill event Bryant * template? MP * do we need a way to kill an exit scam William * Don't need to de-endorse things * Shillcoin Council of New York * meritocracy -- anyone can use it -- people would need to educate Jordy * we are an organization * don't be afraid of organizing * when I hear the word signaling -- I want voting! * when we are talking about decentralized then power -- rather than signaling, want voting Jamie * resources like the twitter account * in general, a lot more loose * sharper edges along other resources * individuals have a way to speak out * let's not prematurely optimize ## To Do ### ETHMagicians in the Public Domain Is the term EthMagicians in the Public Domain? ### Permission for Events No one needs permission to run an EthMagicians event Template discussion ### Support Smaller / Regional Events Boris: how do we enable / encourage / support smaller regional events around the world? (aka “there is no way I am doing the madness that is 250 people next to DevCon/insert large ETH event ever again”) TJ + Lane -- small regional Alex / Kauri have people in NYC ### Governance of donated funds * link to forum thread * plus operational issues about moving to a better multi-sig ### How are Councils run? * Should we follow the template from 2018 for 2019? ### Ecosystem Lack of Duplication * Andreas: collaboration across the Ethereum ecosystem, how do we do it better and duplicate efforts less frequently? ### Formalizing EIP around Ring Charters James: Would formalizing an EIP around Ring Charters (i.e Rings exist outside of Ethereum Magicans) be helpful to clarifying Rings and their organization. TO EIP DISCUSSION ### Issuing Invoices Bryant: can we have a shared entity? Who invoices as a shared resource? OPEN ### Budget TO DO: share this, who can help? ### Fundraising using Magicians Boris: Propose that we do NOT use fundraising for anything other than operational needs for Council events Jordy: dont' have Quorum! Boris: yes! we gather consensus in the room, and then bring to forum

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