# Node.js Tooling Group Meeting 2020-09-18

## Present

- Christopher Hiller (@boneskull)
- Wes Todd (@wesleytodd)
- Ben Coe (@bcoe)
- Bryan English (@bengl)
- Ruy Adorno (@ruyadorno)
- Darcy Clarke (@darcyclarke)
- Joe Sepi (@joesepi)
- Ian Sutherland (@iansu)

## Recursive FS Operations Deep Dive

- `rimraf` lessons learned
- we should have been better about calling out that the feature was.
- we shuld have researched other products better.
- `mkdirp` lessons learned
-
- What other `fs` functions can we make recursive?
- Already identified
- `chown`
- `chmod`:
- https://github.com/nodejs/tooling/issues/59#issuecomment-623653013
- What new recursive things can we add?
- `copyTree/copyDir`
- What are some considerations when making recursive `fs` functions?
- Security
- POSIX compatibility
- Being similar to other languages
- Naming conventions
- Should we be using `recursive: true` or creating new functions?
- Behaviour w/ links

## Notes

- `rimraf`
- Did not get properly labeled as experimental
- Lots of contention around naming, where to put this functionality
- Should have done a better review of other platforms and languages ahead of time
- Complicated library, hard to refactor
- `mkdirp`
- Much less contentious
- Was more straightforward and not labeled experimental
- Other considerations
- Should everything be experimental?
- Should we vendor external libraries or copy them into core?
- Come up with some usecases for these new features
- Security reviews of proposed APIs (@nodejs/security, someone from OpenJS Foundation, academic researchers?)
- Start with some kind of proposal or RFC
- New argument parser did something like this
- There have been a few patch releases of rimraf, we should consider adding them
- New things
- `chmod`
- We did initially try this
- Some concerns were raised about security
- `chown`
- `watch`
- This does exist but is not the best implementation
- Doesn't work on Linux
- Vendor something like `watchman`?
- Look over the entire fs API for ideas
- Lots of prior art in POSIX
- fs already tries to follow POSIX
- `readdir`
- What would recursive `readdir` look like?
- `utime`?
- `mv`/`rename`
- `copyDir`/`copyTree`
- This seems like a valuable addition
- What happens with symlinks? Mirror `copyFile`
- This is a potential security issue
- How does something like bash handle this?
- Is this an issue with `rimraf`
- Do we just make this `copyFile` with recursive option?
- Hopefully not
- Can we do this in JS or will it involve libuv
- https://github.com/libuv/libuv/issues/925
- POSIX compatibility
- How strictly do we want to adhere to this?
- Already broken this with `rimraf`
- Feels kind of user hostile, especially to non-Unix users
- Split this into high and low level APIs? Rust does this
- POSIX like layer
- Higher layer to implement things like `rimraf`, etc.
- We tried this with `rimraf` and there was resistence
- Deno is another good example to look at
- Action items
- Look over existing fs APIs (@joesepi)
- Start on an RFC for `copyDir` (@joesepi/@iansu)
- Start spending more time on a roadmap for the group
- More deep dive type meetings for developing things like RFCs
- Do these outside the normal meeting time
- On Friday on the off weeks?
- Revisit becoming a chartered working group (@boneskull)
- Tooling is maybe too broad?
- Roadmap would help with this
- Talk with Michael Dawson about the idea