# W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly

* Date: 2023-06-14T14:00:00Z
* Call: https://meet.jit.si/solid-cg
* Chat: https://gitter.im/solid/specification
* Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification
* Status: Draft

## Present
* [Sarven Capadisli](https://csarven.ca/#i)
* elf Pavlik
* [Virginia Balseiro](https://virginiabalseiro.com/#me)
* [Jesse Wright (jeswr)](https://www.jeswr.org/#me)
* Meindert Osinga
* [Pierre-Antoine Champin](https://solid.champin.net/pa/profile/card#me)
* Jeff Zucker
* [Laurens Debackere](https://www.thundr.be/profile/laurens.ttl)
* [Tim Berners-Lee](https://timbl.inrupt.net/profile/card#me)
* [Ted Thibodeau](https://github.com/TallTed) (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com)
* [Henry Story](https://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me)

---

## Announcements

### Meeting Guidelines
* [W3C Solid Community Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar).
* [W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines](https://github.com/solid/specification/blob/main/meetings/README.md).
* No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
* Join queue to talk.
* Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed.

### Participation and Code of Conduct
* [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/).
* [Solid Code of Conduct](https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md), [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct](https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/)
* Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome.
* If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself.

### Scribes
* Virginia

### Introductions
* MO: Met SC in Helsinki at MyData conf. Worked with Geens as personal data store but since 2018 we run on open standards and protocol and created services on top of them. We have to look into Solid. Had discussions with Michiel. Encountered technical issues. We're interested in how the framework develops in combination with W3C. We feel all data stored in our platform should communicate through Solid.

---

## Topics

### MyData 2023 Conference
URL: https://2023.mydata.org/

* SC: https://2023.mydata.org/session/solid-interoperability-and-the-future-of-connected-technologies/
* SC: We had a presentation on Solid, the CG, protocol, etc. We had a panel. Meindert and Laurens (present in this call) were there too, maybe LD can give a view/feedback.
* LD: The conference had good traction for Solid, lots of interested parties. There was also some hesitant on more established players' side. Takeaway is we still have improvements to do around communication, documentation, making it accessible to new implementers, there is also confusion on the status of the WG and how to get involved so it was positive to clarify.

### W3C TPAC 2023
URL: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/

* SC: [Solid CG event on 2023-09-11T15:00:00Z in W3C Calendar](https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/3d93d256-f017-48c6-a509-9bd089a714e3). Tentative status.
* PA: [TPAC session](https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/schedule.html#monday) also available there.
* SC: I suggest we focus on making it an informative session for all as opposed to overly specific or complicated work item issues/considerations. Any feedback?
* PA: If we want to kick off the WG, we should find another slot, as we have only 1.5 hours for CG.
* SC: If the kickoff is aligned with TPAC time, it'd be good to have it there.
* TBL: Yes, better to have one meeting.
* SC: We could ask W3C to swap CG to WG.
* PA: I didn't want to suggest WG should replace CG, as the groups have different scopes. I will ask and see what's possible.
* SC: We can discuss both and clarify.

### WIP Implementation Feedback
* SC: We'll allocate some time for implementation feedback or interest to implement. Links to products/projects and demos welcome.
* TBL: I've design issues/articles for the WWW at <https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/>.
* SC: Do you have a recent publication?
* TBL: The ones with yellow flags have been added recently.
* LD: We've released one of our use cases in Flanders with the gov last month. More than 50 people applying for jobs in Flanders with information on their pods.
* TBL: Demos are very valuable. If you can give a demo to this group, we can record it.
* LD: It'd be good to show here. I demoed at Helsinki and there was interest.
* SC: Any week.
* LD: Next week would be good.
* JZ: I have been continuing discussions with the group (JZ addition: Open Commons PASS project) which is a very ambitious project to get municipal governments around the country to use Solid. I set up a meeting with the director and Hadrian; we're discussing having a Solid World dedicated to (JZ addition: benificient apps and socially beneficial initiatives.) If anyone else knows some project using Solid in government or non-profits, I'd be interested in that.
* LD: Happy to spread the good word.

#### Working with protected Non-RDFSources

* eP: I implemented it in [sai-js](https://github.com/janeirodigital/sai-js) and will demo it using simple project management prototype [Projectron](https://github.com/hackers4peace/projectron/tree/main/src/app/components/project). Since the resources are protected, app can't simply use `src` and `href` attributes and needs instead to use authenticated fetch and pass [`Response#blob`](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Response/blob) to [`URL.createObjectURL`](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/URL/createObjectURL_static) and then use those for `src` and `href` attributes. Demo will show both eagerly and lazily loaded blobs.
* eP: We could also explore alternative way of relying on Service Workers (see [Solid Issue#143](https://github.com/solid/solid/issues/143)) but any cross-origin issues would need to be investigated (see https://developer.chrome.com/blog/foreign-fetch/)
* SC: When you say sharing, do you mean changing access controls and/or sending a notification?
* eP: Authorization agent is the only agent authorized to change access control. Applications can request. In SAI, once we establish connection between Bob & Alice, they will be subscribed and get notifcations.
* JZ: You mentioned ACP, do you also work with ACL?
* eP: We're using CSS and CSS doesn't have ??? We have a plan to translate data grants to ACP.
* SC: What feature parity do you mean?
* eP: client id
* SC: There is an open issue on that for WAC... and whether it goes in that direction.
* eP: Since you use HTML, do you use HTML that is protected read or public?
* SC: I just rely on whatever the server gets back. For the spec, we have issues on machine readable error messages in the body. That needs to develop. I haven't done anything myself for error messages.
* eP: We could discuss it next week, since RDF is not expected to be rendered by the browser but HTML seems to be mostly used so that the browser can render it.

### Add WebID to Dependencies
URL: https://github.com/solid/solid-wg-charter/pull/40

* SC: Resolves https://github.com/solid/solid-wg-charter/issues/39 .
* SC: HS [informed the WebID CG](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/2023Jun/0001.html), seeking the CG's consent.
* SC: I suggest if no objections by 2023-06-21, we can merge with WebID CG Chair's go ahead on behalf of the group.
* HS: Ok, I sent [an email message out to WebID CG group](https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/2023Jun/0001.html). Seems people were ok. But we can wait a week.
* PA: PR has been around for some time.

### Strategy for normative references
URL: https://github.com/solid/solid-wg-charter/issues/37

* SC: Waiting on W3C to give us go-ahead on what's necessary. Let's come back to it.
* SC: Can we close this issue and let W3C create a new issue as to what may need to be changed? Alternatively, PAC, can we assign his issue to you?
* PA: Feedback I got is it is not okay for candidate recommendations to depend on ??? without same level of maturity.
* TT: There is no firm rule, there's general guidance that normative references should go no further than 1 maturity level below that of the document where the reference is made.
* eP: As I understood the requirement is harder than ??? we either commit to deliver those dependencies or accept that solid protocol will have no normative references.
* TBL: The convention in general is that you can't require things to be on the same level, some parts might be more stable than others but you can't leave a part of it ??? If Solid server has to support either WAC or ACP and Solid client has to support both, then those are important dependencies. Solid doesn't work without authentication.
* SC: We're at a point where CG cannot make the call on what needs to be in that Charter. I don't want us to be in a situation where there can be blocking because dependencies aren't mature enough. Guidance should come from W3C.
* PA: I will give it another look and come up with a solution.
* SC: Can I assign this to you?
* PA: Yes.

### Update mission
URL: https://github.com/solid/solid-wg-charter/issues/7

* SC: This is editorial. PRs welcome.

### Alternative solutions to container HATEOAS
URL: https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/525

* SC: Proposed by RG and eP.