# Solid Practitioners

## Meetng Date
* 2023-11-30

## Facilitator
* Jeff Zucker - [e-mail]

## Scribe
* Michal, Timea

## Participants (please add yourself)
* [Timea Turdean](https://timea.solidcommunity.net/)
* [michal](https://id.mrkvon.org) ([sleepy.bike](https://sleepy.bike))
* [Daniel Bakas](https://id.danielbakas.com)
* [mariha](https://social.coop/@mariha)
* [Ka Hung Lee]([e-mail])
* [Hugh]([e-mail])
* [Rahul Gupta](https://cxres.pages.dev/profile#i)
* Maxime Lecoq
* [Frederick Gibson](https://frederick.trinpod.us/i)
* Kai Gilb
* Wilfred Pinfold
* Jon Wilson

## Agenda

### Announcements
* Call for Scribe
* Results of Meeting-Time and README discussions - see results: https://www.when2meet.com/?22606584-KIcro

### Check-in (brief intro, current work for each project)

#### Sleepy.bike (Michal & Mariha)
* https://sleepy.bike/
* [github](https://github.com/OpenHospitalityNetwork/sleepy.bike)
* a hospitality eschange for cyclists, decided to use Solid.
* Ideas: everybody ot own their data, hope to build a system that other communities can also be deployed on (hitch hikers)
* what it is: people invite bikers in their home to host them. They show them around, help them, socialize...
* Mariha sharing her experience of being hosted by the communities in her travels.
* background in [Warmshowers](https://warmshowers.org), community for cyclists
* issues with new Board of Directors
* it was gathering around an Android app which became a closed source. So they moved to a different platform while working on developing something new.
* initially we though to create a federated platform but than we found Solid to empower teh community to own their data.

* Questions:
* where are the Pods hosted?
* we do not host our own pods. We do not to centralize data so we thought we could provide IDs from sleepy bike (be an identity provider) and the data to be distributed.
* I'm a bicycle person, what do i do?
* you sign up on the website and you see who is offering hosts in the area you are going. You can write to the person to connect and get hosted.
* each cyclist has a Pod and each host has a Pod and your app allows them to speak to each other?
* yes
* there is a centralized pod for the community
* Since you have the app, are oyu using some internal system to do it: Solid and the messages are sent in Turtle, or notifications...? We are building out a message system too for people to communicate, so how do you do it?
* it is not completely clear how it will be at the end. We considered using Matrix for messages. Besides the actual messages we also need to notify peopel when they get messages.
* Jeff: TimBL has started a group to discuss chat messaging in Solid (there is a channel in gitter and a repo). SolidOS has a chat in it and TimBL and Alain are working on messaging, identifying who is involved and those things. Maybe we can have a working group on this.

#### PASS (Wilf OpenCommons org & Ka Hung Lee)
* https://github.com/codeforpdx/PASS
* Wilf:
* Open community technology challenge - smart city technology
* There is inherent centralized data problems so we looked at Solid to solve it.
* Other protocols , like UK Data Swift, we want to use W3C Standards.
* Started an app targeted at housing insecurity community
* Keeping important documentation information safe who do not have a home to keep this info in a drawer, so Pod would be a safe space to include IDs and other important document

* Ka Hung Lee:
* You can take picture of document you have and upload it directly into the storage
* Setting up permission system with ACL, so people can share files with someone they trust, organizations, ...
* Everyone with PASS has inbox, and you can send messages to others with Turtle file.
* bottleneck: once you upload hundreds of messages, that can be a heavy load, does Solid resolve it? Pagination in frontend maybe? Push notifications
* Contact list
* [GitHub](https://github.com/codeforpdx/PASS)
* pretty active in development: 4-7 members core team + more volunteers

* Questions and notes
* Jeff: TimBL works on extraction of context, Angelo Veltens works on components which can also do that. Rahul, who is here can share about notifications.

#### Solid Notifications (Rahul, elf Pavlik, Sarven)
* Rahul:
* [Solid Notifications Protocol](https://github.com/solid/notifications) provides many ways of getting notifications: streaming, webhooks, websockets
* Pavlik is working on client-side library
* the new Solid Notifications are implemented in CSS
* I'm proposing new Notifications standard called [Per Resource Events](https://github.com/CxRes/prep), simple Streaming-HTTP, not implemented yet (but will be by CSS), proposal stage.

* Questions
* Ka Hung: ??
* RG: What you're looking for is Linked Data notifications using the Solid notifications protocol. CSS currently implements Solid notifications using WebHooks and WebSockets. WebHooks could also be a viable solution for cases where the communication is directly between pods (Not pod to client applications). Maybe Frederick can talk about TrinPod and Timea about Inrupt's ESS

#### Syntropize
* Rahul
* [Syntropize](https://syntropize.com) is a proposal for how we can replace the desktop. This requires us to think about decentralizing data, but also decentralizing applications, so you have different bits and pieces and choose how you want to see the informations. Not locked into vendors deciding what you see (e.g. facebook)
* Right now I'm implementing simple examples - documents, cards, kind of like digital gardens, and you can dynamically switch views, and you can get different views on the same data.
* This is based on ideas that exist for 40-50 years. Syntropize demonstrates the feasibility to implement these ideas in the context of modern web technologies.
* Source: <https://gitlab.com/syntropize/syntropize>
* Releases: <https://gitlab.com/syntropize/syntropize/-/releases>

* Frederick: It seems like you want to have a community group with its own id, and you want to add and remove members there.
* Mariha: that's more or less what we're doing atm, it's just a simple list of people
* Solid actually supports adding members to webId. It may be actually something to think about, having a group pod.
* Jeff: There is a couple different ways of approaching that:
* having common type indexes between pods, ?? Such and such person is member of such and such community, which allows them to say what members have access to, which then would be on the community pod, and people would have their data on their pods.
* Ka Hung: Can members talk among different communities?
* Frederick: Yes, with notifications, ... Jeff, is it community webId or ??
* vcard:Group vcard:hasMember
* Jeff: that's mostly useful for permissions. Community predicate has slightly different purpose. ?? e.g. you can pull your own address book, and other address books as well
* Frederick: we use the same predicate vcard:hasMembers for companies, ... and we also copy it to your personal pod.
* Jeff: It's similar, but the purpose is somewhat different, that's been worked in webId group. That person isAMemberOf that community vocabulary.

### Organisational

* Jeff: There will be working groups on different topics, which can get more specific. Be thinking of that. I will start my own on developing a RDF framework for social organizations. A lot fo frameworks are business oriented but organisations here have different needs. One concrete one will be to describe these projects we shared today. Link between organisations along topics for example. When we have ghundred projects there will be a more systemic approach. In comming weeks I will post stuff about it. I will create a directory called working group and discussions will be done in each topic's repository. And will be added along as we go along.
* FG: does everyone have a WebID? we can set up a Pod on TrinPod, invite everyone and start creating data.
* Jeff: i got some bigger plans organisationally how to present the info. I would prefer that to be happening on a Pod that is a community based Pod. We migth have more than one.
* FG: To test things out.
* Dan: we like the community based Pod but we woudl also like to test for you. We could be in both to learn from eachother.
* FB: just put our webId on solid practicioners and invite you in. https://app.gitter.im/#/room/#solid-practitioners:matrix.org
* Timea: each organisation should choose where they put their information, the community pod would only be used probably for some shared resources.

* Dan - can we have a location where to share our projects to start with?
* Jeff - each organisation can share their information on their own place, the sharing and searching of interested topics and projects should be share. Matrix is one location.
* Next meeting we will continue with the other projects and at that point we can begin to think how to present this information to teh public and than to ourself. I have some plans how to share this in RDF. I am 100% for pages that describes each project but we are probably not ready for it yet.
* Timea: Maxime - your project will roll over to next meeting. We will make sure to add it to the agenda.
* Jeff: next time we can hear about TinPod too. I will check when the next meeting will be and than we will have hopefully a regular cadence.

## For next time's agenda:

#### Mycelium/Data Food Consortium/Indexing/Startin'Blox (maybe next time) - Maxime Lecoq

I work for INRIA, a French research center on data discovery and indexing in a Solid ecosystem. We have two areas of study: Mycelium and Startin'Blox.

The Mycelium project attempts to create a suite of Solid applications to manage farms (products, harvests, sales, accounting, etc.). Each producer/farm has its own POD. It is based on the Data Food Consortium project which builds ontology and taxonomies for short food supply chains. Currently I'm working on how to index data in farmers' PODs. Small demo available: an app which display catalogs of products and allow to filter by product type (ex: carrot). It's using LDflex/comunica.

I also work for Startin'Blox, a company that has built a client framework for creating Solid applications and is also developing its own Solid server in Python. Currently I'm working on one of their applications called HUBL which allows you to find freelancers in a community of users. I'm currently working on finding users hosted across multiple CSS server instances using indexes. Small demo available: 32 CSS instances which 40 users each (and a POD) and 600 skills. I can search users given some skills. The app is using Comunica and find users in less a second thanks to querying indexes (a global index on the app POD).

### Working Group Topics
* What is a working group and how to form one?

### Other issues not related to a specific member project
*