# bootc community meeting

https://zoom-lfx.platform.linuxfoundation.org/meeting/96540875093?password=7889708d-c520-4565-90d3-ce9e253a1f65

Feel free to add yourself to the attendee list and to add to the agenda! This is an open community meeting, and our [Code of Conduct](https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc?tab=readme-ov-file#code-of-conduct) applies.

## 7 Nov 2025

### Attendees
-

### Agenda
-

### Shoutouts
-

### TODO
- [ ]

## 31 Oct 2025 (Happy Halloween! :jack_o_lantern: :ghost: :skull: )

### Attendees
- Colin Walters
- John Eckersberg
- Mohan Shash (RH)
- Laura Santamaria (I'm a teapot)
- Robert Sturla (RH)
- Jorge Castro (CNCF)
- Tulip Blossom (Chainguard)
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (RH)
- AfterStory
- Sean Thrailkill
- Hristo Marinov
- Gursewak Mangat
- Preethi Thomas (RH)

### Agenda
- [name=Jorge] Who's going to kubecon? [Colin, Joseph, Laura, Jorge, ...]
- [name=Jorge] Reference Architecture for bootc
- CNCF projects have a reference arch, usually published by end users. e.g., how Adobe uses Argo. {%preview https://architecture.cncf.io/ %}
- Approaching teams to post their architecture
- Working on a way to have talks that are reference architectures highlihgted more during keynote and during track (more likelihood of talks accepted)
- Proposed: KubeCon NA 2026 - submit two ref archtiectures. First, for Red Hatters, find bank or someone who is doing it with RHEL Image Mode and write it up. (Prefer pairup with already end user company).
- Bazzite: BK and Kyle - kyle works on rpm packaging at MS, and is a great presenter!
- Same for podman and buildah - WinBoat for Podman (https://www.winboat.app/; https://github.com/TibixDev/winboat)
- [name=Mohan] How does this write up work?
- [name=Jorge] CNCF will work with an end user - definition is partners on the landscape
- [name=Jorge] Also think about other users like bootcrew
- [name=Colin] KubeCon agenda now? Or a breakout in chat actually probably
- Let's discuss in chat :) Avoid FOMO
- [name=Colin] Helping mentor contributions more reliably/regularly
- Really feel like the 1:1 and smaller meetings are effective at getting everyone space to talk.
- Rotation in the channel for office hours
- [name=Laura] Yes, this is common :) Other projects do developer office hours.
- [name=Jorge] or can tack to end of this meeting
- [name=Colin] Maybe move this one earlier?
-
- [name=Jorge] demo (have me go last)
- finpilot
- {%preview https://github.com/castrojo/finpilot %}

### Shoutouts
- [name=Jorge] Bluefin was featured in a [GitHub Universe Keynote](https://youtu.be/q1IxyisKcZI?si=zHNrlBxFkQnXLQos&t=1322) - the two people who did that last 20% are first time contributors and are now part of the greater bootc community. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
- [name=Tulip] for https://github.com/bootc-dev/homebrew-bcvk
- [name=Sean] Colin got podman working with codespaces!
- [name=Jorge] bootc-image-builder new ISO support https://github.com/osbuild/bootc-image-builder/pull/1094 (still in flight)

### TODO
- [ ] Can someone add a timedate.com widget/link to the community meeting in the readme?

## 24 Oct 2025

### Attendees
- Colin Walters
- Robert Sturla (Red Hat)
- Sean Thrailkill
- Hristo Marinov
- Laura Santamaria (Red Hat; she/her)
- Preethi Thomas
- Mohan Shash (RH)
-

### Agenda
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bcvk/pull/86 %}
- Looking for feedback
- Improving iteration speed for testing for humans and AI (autonomous changes). Also dealing with technical debt.
- Demo!
- This is inspired a bit by Vagrant. There's a new project verb that has a lot of syntactic sugar for bcvk. (Note that this is mostly generated via an AI agent, but Colin reviews all things before committing.)
- The idea is in other libvirt verbs, you have to give it to specific VMs
- This one scopes to specific repo
- Refers to locally built bootc image
- Initializes project, allows you to find local VM; caches disc images (cached base image corresponding to base image built; or could just build)
- The sugar is autobind mount the host container storage
- Now, when ssh in, you can -a to autoupdate
- If rebuild on host the container image (build new bootc image from code from repo), then bcvk project ssh -a, then inner VM fetch just new layers and will allow you to ssh in and try out new code
- [Sean] Awesome on how easy this is. Allows all kinds of users to do all kinds of cool stuff.
- [Colin] not just for devs, you can do this for things like tweaking firewall rules - iterating locally and then pushing to cloud or metal. CDK replaces podman-bootc. Trying also to wrap bib as well.
- [Colin] Several ways to do installs, but day2 stuff should all be the same. So if wrap Anaconda, then can do the local runs and libvirt VM with all the sugar added.
- [Sean] Why start developing this tool versus updating podman-bootc?
- [Colin] Podman-bootc had some technical debt. Fundamental redesign was because of requiring podman machine on Linux, which causes cascading problem.
- [Colin] There's some vendoring that hops us on the CVE train
- [Colin] So instead, this just forks Podman and Rust things, so no bundled co-libraries to deal with layered CVEs
- [Mohan] Working on first video edits. Hopefully will have a cool new video on this wink wink
- [Robert] Wants to enforce bootc switch globally config option for universal blue.
- [Colin] {%preview https://github.com/containers/container-libs/pull/355 %}
- [Colin] Jonathan was working on this for CoreOS. Was this the same thing?
- [Robert] Haven't seen this yet, but looks similar on first quick look
- [Colin] This links to Skopeo issue 309, which is this thing. Plumb this through into Skopeo proxy then plumb into bootc. Want to align how bootc feels and works to other container runtimes feel and work, so should enforce sigs on logically bound apps and stuff, too. Maybe once library side of this finally merges, then we should talk about whether this is a CLI flag or global, right?
- [Robert] Would be good to have it be global. Secure by default design. Currently no method for global config save the thing from ostree.
- [Colin] We should be posting the same policy json. Just drop out insecureAcceptAnything default should do it.
- [Robert] This should affect the host image and the podman image right?
- [Colin] Yup, the whole family of tools
- [Robert] Not everyone signs...
- [Colin] This came up in a different context (may need docs). Short answer no. If run bootc as systemd unit, could easily use bind paths. Not the most beautiful thing and would like first class support, but that's the status quo on it right now. Might be an env var to change where policy.json is searched for. Agree on usecase, though. Want to get that in :)

### Shoutouts
- Shoutout to Robert for joining Red Hat!
- Thank you to Jonathan Deiter and Eli from CIQ for meeting with Sean and getting bootc images out for Rocky! [Link](https://git.resf.org/sig_containers/rocky-bootc)
- Shoutout to Sean for having those meetings!

### TODO
- [ ]

## 17 Oct 2025

### Attendees
- Mohan Shash (RH)
- Robert Sturla (RH - on Monday :tada:) :heart:
- Joseph Marrero (RH)
- Jorge Castro (CNCF)
- Laura Santamaria (she/her; Red Hat)
- Colin Walters
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Pragyan Poudyal
- Gursewak Mangat
- Jonathan Lebon
- Dusty Mabe

### Agenda

- composefs progressing: {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1662 %} merged!
- {%preview https://github.com/coreos/bootupd/pull/978#issuecomment-3411377999 %}
- [Jorge] Is anyone doing systemd-boot on baremetal? I want a screenshot. :D
- [Colin] Yes! Surprise :D
- [Colin] One of the initial targets is custom sealed images. So you have your own CKI signed image with own cert, then can provision env with cert chain.
- Lots of folks want to use machine owner keys flow (requires shim); we'll likely enhance Robert's patch to allow support, which will eventually allow secureboot to shim to secure owner keys. But if want bootc on baremetal without secureboot, you can do that now.
- [Robert] Are you looking for testing stuff?
- [Colin] ostree doesn't support UKIs yet. TL;DR: There is support for using GRUB and systemd backend using UKIs. In theory, things will work with things. But! not targeting the ostree backend right now for systemd-boot. Do you want that?
- [Robert] Went off git main build, so where would testing be the most wanted? Just trying to figure out where testing is needed.
- [Jorge] - we should tell more people about the git copr for bootc, I only discovered it exists today!
- [Colin] bootupd is a soft requirement, so asking for people to try it out. Secondary, getting closer to composefs backend as daily driver
- [John] Gets us close to having other distros as part of upstream CI as well. Wanting to do that so we don't break anyone else :)
- [Jorge] Updates not working yet on other distros. Their Discord is poppin though!
- [Jorge] SUSE did a talk on some kind of weird btrfs snapshots? May be using Podman backend.
- [Mohan] Demo - YouTube access to CNCF is approved for all the maintainers
- We have access!
- Laura and Mohan to connect on Monday to establish how to do this.
- So! If you are working on anything, make a video! Bring it to this call, and we'll review as a groups.
- Laura can advise if you want to do it
- [Colin] What's the quality bar?
- Laura: offers to help mentor folks!
- Laura: Lots of advice on setup: avoid it being a noisy environment
- [Jorge] How's soft reboot coming along?
- Robert: Initial soft reboot support in Bootc 1.7.0 - Doesn't work with LUKS-encrypted drives (using BTRFS/created with Anaconda?)
- Joseph will produce a blog soonish :-)

### Shoutouts!

### TODO

## 10 Oct 2025

### Attendees
- Tulip Blossom
- Sean Thrailkill
- Robert Strula
- John Eckersberg
- Preethi Thomas
- Prasanth Baskar
- Hristo Marinov
- Pragyan Poudyal
- Dusty Mabe
- Joseph Marrero

### Agenda
- Sean to meet with CIQ to discuss Rocky Linux Bootc images
- slack thread - https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/C08SKSQKG1L/p1759947000990329
- (Robert - no mic) - Do you still have the weekly composefs backend meetings, and is the intention to make them public?
- Yes! We missed a week because of some group meetings
- We'll try to make them public next week! (Thursdays at 08:30 EDT)
- [Discussion forum post about continuing the bootc initiative in Fedora](https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/renewing-the-fedora-bootc-now-image-mode-initiative/167131/27)
- Fedora specific: [creating disk images proposal](https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/77)
- ["soft" or "light" bootc proposal](https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1668) - just raising awareness for comment/feedback!

### Shoutouts
- Texas Linux Fest Workshop was very successful!
- https://2025.texaslinuxfest.org/talks/create-your-own-bootable-container/
- https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/C08SKSQKG1L/p1759504991874539

### TODO
- [ ]

## 3 Oct 2025

### Attendees
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank)
- Laura Santamaria (Red Hat; she/her)
- AfterStory
- Tulip Blossom (Chainguard; she/her)
- Colin Walters
- Mohan Shash
- Hristo Marinov
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat)
- Gursewak Mangat
- Chris Kyrouac
- Jonathan Lebon
- Dusty Mabe (he/him; Red Hat)

### Agenda
- Laura: Intros, note use of CNCF code of conduct.
- [Mohan] Demo videos to be uploaded in CNCF channel. Goal: Re-use the demos, reference in docs etc..
- Record and share your demos. Laura is helping us with setting up the access to post the videos on CNCF channels
- [Laura] Ticket is in (link?), who is a maintainer and wants access?
- Note this has to be someone who is a maintainer: {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/blob/main/MAINTAINERS.md %}
- [Colin] can we all just do it? [Laura] Sure, but remember you're going to be responsible :)
- [Colin] How about we go over videos in this meeting? (or in slack?) Basically just a mechanism to review things
- Decision: All have access, maybe a review call after community meeting.
- [Robert] Official E2E examples/templates for different use-cases?
- https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/C08SKSQKG1L/p1759441407750519
- Currently have [Fedora Bootc examples](https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/examples), but these are only the Containerfile definitions.
- Jorge suggested adopting the [Universal Blue Image Template](https://github.com/ublue-os/image-template).
- Other enterprise-ready examples could include workflows for testing with [bcvk](https://github.com/bootc-dev/bcvk) and [test.thing](https://codeberg.org/lis/test.thing) and additional tooling for security gating and compliance requirements.
- [Colin] Base images templates make total sense!
- [Colin] {%preview https://github.com/ublue-os/image-template/blob/main/Justfile %}
- [Dusty] Do they build just containers or boot images?
- [Robert] Good to have examples of both of them.
- [Laura] What about a cookie cutter and then an awesomelist?
- Another tool that is used to build disk images (I think in SUSE and some in Fedora) is kiwi, so if support was added there it would be a good one to add to the awesomelist.
- [Afterstory in chat] I remember a chat with wanting to move/have a equivalent uBlue image template on bootc org repo
- [Tulip in chat] I think it would be interesting to have integration with the ArtifactHub (https://artifacthub.io/) project for discoverability
- {%preview https://github.com/topics/bootc %}
- [Robert] What about a reference image for enterprise? or out of scope?
- [Colin] Related to enterprise - disconnected environments. Would make total sense though. There's a lot in this space ([flight control project](https://github.com/flightctl/flightctl/) as one example). Some people want an opinionated system that pulls in bootc as one part; that's an interesting one to consider for a reference image/awesomelist.
- [Robert] Yeah, flightctl does safe rollout and automated way, so would be good to show how to implement flightctl with bootc
- [Colin] composefs status!
- Making some progress!
- Would love to have people come work on it together
- Multistage image for base image
- Cleaning up the build system stuff and hoping to land the testing and things there. John is working on the build side.
- Anyone welcome to do live chat system!

### Shoutouts
- Sean is doing a workshop at Texas Linux Fest today!

### TODO
- [ ] Laura to send replies to Riaan re: channel maintainers
- [ ] Laura to connect with Mohan re [community manager role](https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/blob/main/MAINTAINERS.md#community-managers)
- [ ] Open ticket for awesome list
- [ ] Make the repo for awesomelist
- [ ] Kick off templates
- [ ] If you want to work on composefs, chat in the bootc-dev channel and do some live coding

## 26 Sept 2025

### Attendees
- Laura Santamaria (she/her; Red Hat)
- Dusty Mabe (he/him; Red Hat)
- Sean Thrailkill
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank)
- Jonathan Lebon (Red Hat)
- Tulip Blossom (Chainguard)
- Joseph Marrero (Red Hat)
- Mohan Shash (RH)
- Preethi Thomas
- Hristo Marinov
- Colin Walters

### Agenda
- [Mohan] Anything interesting from the conference - DevConf.us
- [Laura] Bootc discussions - nothing significant for the community
- [Sean] Sean is doing a presentation on bootc - Texas Linux Fest
- Laura to send bootc stickers for Sean
- All things Open - Conference in raleigh
- Is bootc represented? not sure
- Laura will look into this
- [Sean and Tulip] New KDE thing. They use mkosi + systemd-sysupdate, there is a WIP arch-bootc based KDE linux spin. Actually its from one of the KDE Linux devs. He forked arch-bootc from bootcrew
- {%preview https://github.com/silverhadch/arch-bootc-kde %}
- [Colin] New development workflow
- Always looking for feedback
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1635 %}
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1638 %}
- jlebon: Working on signing
- Working on adding necessary stuff to container libraries to make that nicer
- {%preview https://github.com/containers/container-libs/pull/355 %}
- {%preview https://github.com/containers/skopeo/pull/2714 %}
- {%preview https://github.com/containers/skopeo/issues/1829 %}
- Skopeo ticket locked - **Blocker**
- Needs unlocked to get unblocked for people to commment
- Learned a lot recently when switching from ostree signing to OSCI signing.
- [Colin] Outstanding PRs?
- Anyone else want to grab any? 1645 would be great for someone to pickup.
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1645 %}

### TODO
- [ ] Someone needs to unlock the Skopeo ticket - Ping Lokesh

## 18 Sep 2025

- [walters] Move composefs into bootc-dev?
- CNCF donation, should we treat like seperate project (eg: Podman)
- Composefs will come with bootc, it's not standalone.
- ostree being reduced, so we should do it? bootc take over the responsibility
- AI: colin to file github issues for discussion
- [walters] bcvk! https://github.com/cgwalters/bcvk
- [jeckersb] composefs community meeting moving to public

## 12 Sept 2025

### Attendees
- Robert Strula (Tesco Bank* / Universal Blue)
- Mohan Shash (RH)
- Jonathan Lebon (RH)
- Preethi Thomas (RH)
- Michael Fox (RH)
- Chris Kyrouac (RH)
- Hristo Marinov
- Tulip Blossom
- Gursewak Mangat (RH)
- Pragyan Poudyal (RH)
- John Eckersberg (RH)
- Joseph Marrero (RH)
- Dusty Mabe (RH)

### Agenda
- bootc-kit will become bcvk, will publish soon
- Live merge of [Composefs backend PR](https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1444) :tada:
- https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/containers/bootc/-/issues/1174
- https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/native-oci-storage-for-dnf/163534
- Discussion of old ostree and composefs in OpenShift

### TODO:
-

## 5 Sept 2025

### Attendees
- Mohan Shash (RH)
- Colin Walters (RH)
- Robert Strula (Tesco Bank / Universal Blue)
- John Eckersberg (RH)
- Jonathan Lebon (RH)

### Agenda
- https://github.com/containers/canon-json-rs/issues/7#issuecomment-3256310192 etc. No one disagreed with this move
- https://github.com/bootc-dev/infra/issues/18
- jlebon: In FCOS hitting signing issues
- https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1969#issuecomment-3251151820
- Maybe demo/discuss https://github.com/cgwalters/bootc-kit/commit/625b8be147df2fc196ac1e4bdb32d3657df90992
- Discussion of arch base images!

### TODO:
-

## 29 Aug 2025

### Attendees
- Laura Santamaria (Red Hat)
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Colin Walters
- Preethi Thomas
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank / Universal Blue)
- Hristo Marinov
- Dusty Mabe
- Ben Breard
- Jonathan Lebon
- Timothée Ravier

### Agenda
- Dynamic bootloader detection in bootupd {%preview https://github.com/coreos/bootupd/pull/978 %}
- Robert gave a review of the PR
- Discussion? _(Sorry, coming in during the middle of the discussion... - LAS)_
- Grub vs systemd boot
- **Decision:** Robert will default to grub if found, but will use systemd boot if it's not there
- composefs/bootc meeting - reach out to join. Dealing with conflict/opening branch
- Open floor time
- [Ben] got a request to help migrate from existing installs into bootc system. Would you be able to pull package database from system? Maybe scrape etc/? Sounds like endless edge cases... Thoughts?
- [Colin] Someone in upstream Slack is doing this and has it mostly working for their prod systems. SELinux issue. Key thing that would be really helpful is preserving existing bootloader entries and making it non-destructive. Would immensely aid testing. Totally doable.
- [Ben] Wouldn't you need to eventually blow away the existing loaders?
- [Colin] Yeah, garbage collection is a thing. We can blow away containers but leave everything else. Didn't want to get in the business of blowing away data. Not hard to do cleanup as you wish (systemd container in sysroot, then remove things). If data partitions, everything gets easier.
- [Jonathan] Actually thought we were talking about something different. config starting point.
- [Ben] Should be easy to scrape RPMs and modify base image with diff out and add into containerfile. Only handling package side.
- [Jonathan] Could copy to containerfile then etc to preserve those?
- [Colin] [thread](https://cloud-native.slack.com/archives/C08SKSQKG1L/p1756205380188269?thread_ts=1755600945.963309&cid=C08SKSQKG1L) for person doing install is in CNCF Slack.
- Procedural note: Laura won't be here next two weeks, will be traveling and also representing bootc at DevConf.us
- Meta: Notes about who takes notes! We'll try to assign someone to do this in each meeting on a rotating basis
- conferences - also KubeCon is coming up! Laura is talking about sharing a schedule for the booth.
- Discussion of swag: ideas? 3d prints, t-shirts, (cat ears?), *not* socks; avoid requiring sizes? RaspberryPis pre-loaded?
- pre-flashed SD cards for RPi (cheaper)
- Goal: something someone can try right away
- KubeCon sync up for OS folks
- #wg-sp-os holds Flatcar folks
- Looks like https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/main/tags/tag-workloads-foundation/README.md technically would have bootc in scope

### TODO:
-

## 22 Aug 2025

Canceled as many folks have PTO. Enjoy a day off!

## 15 Aug 2025

### Attendees
- Colin Walters
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Mohan Shash
- Michael Fox
- Preethi Thomas
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank)
- Hristo Marinov
- Laura Santamaria (she/her; Red Hat)
- Johnathan Lebon
- Sean Thrailkill
- Gursewak Mangat
- Dusty
- Michael Tunnell (Framework)
- AfterStory
- Jorge Castro (CNCF/Linux Foundation)

### Agenda
- [Jonathan] bootc plugin system
- [Jonathan] What do we want the UX to be like? Two high-level approaches: dnf drives bootc, or bootc drives dnf. This is currently Fedora focused, but implementation details is not Fedora focused. If dnf does persistent package layering, goal should still be bootc upgrade and bootc status work and that's the user. For that to work, bootc and dnf need to work together, hence plugin system. How do we have bootc communicate with other applications (this is where it's non-Fedora centric). Logic shouldn't likely live in bootc, right? What's the plugin API look like?
- [Colin] Wasn't there an issue about this?
- [Jonathan] context the first time was originally rpmtree
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/337 %}
- [Colin] Complicated. Think about progress reporting, especially as GUI. We want a progress bar, coherent representation of what's happening. Want accurate change detection. Want things visually simple to understand for user. If bootc forks off other binary, punt the issue of how representation of state works. Inclination is to punt to the tool; make it the job of the higher-level tool.
- [Jonathan] Going to server model, you would do dnf status, for example, and dnf upgrade?
- [Colin] Yes, can't avoid the tools and need to know about both in some cases. Could cover a lot of cases if we taught the package managers how to manage a sysext that they own locally. There's already a lot of tooling to introspect sysext.
- {%preview https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf5/issues/1731 %}
- [Dusty] if we make it generic (e.g., local layering), local packages is one plugin that's really important. Being able to add a package that's not in the thing that you're following is extremely convenient. In most cases, there's a package manager tool that you could make plugins, and tool itself could learn how to do thing in sysext, then bootc doesn't have to care (or maybe it does?). How many things do people have to touch to upgrade system? What's the better user experience? If you step away from package managers/systems, then that's where it gets iffy. Might make more sense to make bootc the one that controls that instead of having dracut try to call bootc. Might be better bootc managing as plugin way.
- Bootc notices update, grabs it, then pipeline - output is input to next step. Output of pipeline is from plugins. Idea is more that mutiple plugins can stack. Or can combine to multistage build (yay pipelines).
- [Colin] Wary of adding more complexity to bootc right now. Issues in place, example: We don't have unified storage (podman build/docker build is super awkward at the moment). There's prepwork we need to add. Someone else might need to own that task. Still problem of non-package content.
- [Sean] Inclined to agree. Keep bootc simple; teaching other tech to know how to layer versus trying to edit the image that is actually booted (and security implications for that).
- [Dusty] Use case thinking about is in a scenario where someone is autoupdating their system. e.g., normally they don't touch it. How can they keep the things that they have done to keep everything up to date? That's why like the plugin model. Then other things get updated alongside the upgrade that happens (e.g., the user who ran a command years ago and doesn't remember that command). How to keep config that was made up to date, etc. Have same problem today in ostree world where there's package layering, e.g., orphaned packages.
- [Jonathan] Package layering is a big one as it's a common want. When you boot up a bootc system, you use bootc to manage it, from point on to add package, then you stop touching bootc and have to know other tools. Introduces split brain. Is bootc an implementation detail of dnf? Feels awkward. Would be better that bootc knows the state of the system. Make bootc the entrypoint to managing your system.
- [Dusty] Would be nice if someone runs bootc status and copy-paste to issue filed, then shows full system. Would be helpful to have single pane of glass.
- [Laura/Colin] Let's move to an issue for more discussion. Jonathan to make the issue.
- [Mohan] Follow up - when is the site going live: https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc-dev.github.io?
- [Laura] The site is live at https://bootc-dev.github.io, but are you asking about moving it to bootc.dev?
- [Mohan] Thanks, I wasn't aware that it was live already :-)
- [Robert] what info should we get from users who hit this? {%preview https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree/issues/2283 %}
- [Robert] One of the most annoying bugs we face. No easy way to resolve when it happens, no reproducable steps. What can we do to help debug?
- [Colin] Don't know offhand. Could ask folks to share journals and get more logs. AI version churning on that.
- [Hristo, in chat] {%preview https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/silverblue-wont-boot-after-forced-shutdown-searching-for-ways-to-recover-it/155432 %}
- [Jonathan] Catchall issue. Symptoms look the same, but not same root cause. When initially filed this, cause was people doing reinstalls and they had old install on disk one but new on disk 2, then partitions got the bootloader confused. Another way this can happen is if something during shutdown procedure didn't get transactionally logged. Really hard to debug. Having steps to reproduce is really key.
- [Michael, in chat] {%preview https://github.com/ublue-os/bluefin-lts/issues/658 %}
- "Apparently the bluefin is related to btrfs + bootc"
- [Hristo] Spent a long amount of time trying to reproduce on baremetal machine; in all states, shutdown machine with power switch. Cannot reproduce this issue. Mentioned this in the Fedora discussion thread. But needs that reproduction details. Seems very difficult to reproduce.
- [Laura] Can we make a big issue to collect everything?
- [Colin] Sure?
- [Jorge] Everyone is blaming btrfs.
- [Dusty] Also discussed on LinuxUnplugged. Seems to only be on 16.3
- **ACTION**: Let's make the catchall here: {%preview https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree/issues/2283 %}
- ~~[Robert] Systemd Boot - can we start with a hidden flag passed from bootc? https://github.com/coreos/bootupd/pull/978~~ Can move to discussion in the PR
- [Laura] Thank you! Please bring it back up again next week if the discussion needs to be live!

### TODO:
- [ ] Jonathan to make an issue for the plugin discussion to continue offline.
- [ ] Laura to find out how to get the bootc.dev CNAME setup
- [ ] All to drop catchall for the persistent bug in the issue

## 8 Aug 2025

### Attendees
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank / Universal Blue)
- Hristo Marinov
- Laura Santamaria (she/her; Red Hat)
- Colin Walters
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat)
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Chris Kyrouac
- Dusty Mabe (he/him; Red Hat)
- Gursewak Mangat
- Jonathan Lebon
- Sean Thrailkill
- afterstory

### Agenda
- [Colin] More on composefs {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1498 %}
- [Colin] Clientside reworking on how we store files. Then there's the build side to this whole thing. What's the user experience look like for creating an image
- [Colin] Recap from previous meeting
- [Colin] Fatal flaw of binary copying into host
- [Colin] Issue is about build side
- [Colin] Logistically simplest - containers build however you want, bootc cleans up, then user provide secure boot key
- [Jonathan] Not following super closely, but feels like we're starting with the hard case. Any work around non-sealed composefs builds today? Does it work?
- [Colin] Yes, kinda. "It Depends":tm: Gets into whole problem around how we transition installs. Doesn't need to be sealed, but only target UKIs to start. We get into mechanical issue of default Fedora base images aren't set up for UKI. ostree backend does not really support UKIs (at least not with UEFI). Yes, it definitely will support nonsealed systems. Assuming we want to run this tool on your container images anyway.
- [Jonathan] Need to make sure that, when designing, want to consider how migrate existing systems, and how will work with unsealed systems. Sealed case may be a specialized thing in beginning. May affect design; overconstrain.
- [Colin] We will definitely support transitioning existing systems. In end, can always boot without secure boot, too.
- [Colin] not committing to anything; this is still experimental. Nothing stops us from allowing flow within Dockerfiles, too.
- [John] Haven't really explored it a whole lot. May change, and likely will hit many walls. Just wanted to start discussion. Please feel free to comment in issue! Help find flaws in plan :)
- [Colin] Want people to feel free to ask questions in this meeting! Don't be afraid to ask for clarity, ask to help contribute.
- [Sean] Recently gave talk at Flock about state of bootc! Big fan, want to get involved. We've shifted away from how installation process used to work. Used to be build your artifacts, now transitioning to replace the existing install, especially in more cloud-centric areas. What was the impetus for the change in direction?
- [Colin] Very interested. Wouldn't say it's backing away. We know we have to support a flow where you have a container image, then allow to turn into ISO or raw disk file. Too many use cases for that to give it up (e.g., edge, IOT devices, want to preconfigure before ship). We have to support that. Tension is in some clouds, managing disk images kinda stinks. Esp. AWS, as an example. There's two different worlds, and we do need to do both.
- [Dusty] bootc image builder supports uploading AMI for AWS, but usually you have to figure that part out on your own. Now also options to boot and then replace. That's more of a "let's remove the extra step from the user's responsibility, allow for existing thing that can be paved over." Might make it easier.
- [Sean] Makes sense. Sounds like this is to make it simpler for the user; pave over idea makes sense for the user.
- [Dusty] idea is they already have podman, which can run the container than can then pave your system. Bootc is on engineer's device. Positives and negatives. Positive: You start with whatever image for OS is on your cloud, and then you have to rebase that instance to your container. Negative: Feels like there's a new cloud that pops up everyday. Feels like we're constantly chasing the ball. Better experience is wherever you are is a starting point. So this allows to start from *something* you can start from. Doesn't even have to be EL-based. Can be Ubuntu. Can get to success without having to create your own disk image.
- [Colin] Not an installer in the partitioning sense. We want to make it easy/happy path for someone making own OS or distro - closer you can get to OS is container, then the installer area can be smaller. Bootc doesn't know how big you want your partition to be, for example, but if you can use whatever installer to install your containerized OS, then you're in a better space. Freya Labs also investigating bootc, called readymade.
- [Laura] I'll see if I can find them. (chat noted that they're in the universal blue discord)
- [Jonathan] Choice of filesystem in container image and possibility of putting the choice of the filesystem in the image itself
- [Colin] Would like to support systemd-repart as part of MVP first, possibly able to support something like this later.
- Lots of talk about new friends, inviting new friends, and timezone issues (we know this isn't great for Europeans and others.)
- Discussion of recording meeting, general agreement we should probably record and post
- One option: Split 50%/50% recorded vs not, the advantage of this would be that the second half can be for "stupid questions" that people may not be comfortable having on the Internet Forever

## 1 Aug 2025

### Attendees:
- Colin Walters
- Mohan Shash
- Jonathan Lebon
- Robert Sturla

### Agenda

- bootloaders and composefs?
- Robert may look at WIP for detecting images without bootupd and defaulting to systemd-boot
- https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/806#issuecomment-3145079372
- composefs
- Live working session later 1:30pm EST
- future composefs will not require reprovisioning
- Discussion of https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1471
- coreos transitioning to bootc
- https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1441
- https://github.com/coreos/rpm-ostree/issues/4994
- https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1320
- https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues?q=state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22area%2Fcoreos-alignment%22
- dnf discussion

## 25 July 2025
### Attendees:
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank / Universal Blue)
- Hristo Marinov
- Ben Breard
- Laura Santamaria (she/her)
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Colin Walters
- Dusty Mabe
- Mohan Shash
- Gursewak Mangat

### Agenda
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/milestone/5 %}
- Anyone have anything else to add to the milestone?
- Added a couple
- Info about contributing: {%preview https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2025/07/23/shape-future-linux-contribute-bootc-open-source-project %}
- [Colin] Assigning/delegating issues
- Right now not auto-assigning reviews and issues. Worth starting to do?
- Bot to round-robin reviews?
- https://docs.github.com/en/organizations/organizing-members-into-teams/managing-code-review-settings-for-your-team
- Thoughts, opinions, screaming fights?
- [Joseph] OpenShift repos have something automatic like this. Agree the custom stuff is heavy-handed for us.
- [Colin] Merge queue is a huge example of something that GitHub added that used to be custom for other projects
- [Colin] will take action item to set something up for this
- [Laura] Website PR - build is technically running on my fork
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc-dev.github.io/pull/3 %}
- https://nimbinatus.com/bootc-dev.github.io/ (except my domain stuff is messing with links)
- [Ben] Do we want to move the this week in bootc there?
- [Ben] What about https://containers.github.io/bootable/ ? Move it? Use it? Wipe it?
- [Colin] There's two things: Specs/standards vs how it works. People have asked for "what's the bootc spec?" would be good to add it somewhere... Probably don't squash them yet.
- Containers org has been catchall. Just transfer the repo into bootc-dev? Could explain the spec there.
- Worth linking or leave it separate?
- Maybe come back to it? Any strong opinions?
- [Mohan] Linking would be helpful. Website at bootc.dev that links to it will make it easier to find...
- [Colin] Let's land website and iterate from there
- rollup of events/blogs/releases, picking back up BCTW?
- Duplicates news?
- If there are blog topics we need to write on, talk with Ben?

### TODO
- [ ] Colin - set up review round-robin bot
- [ ] Laura - go fix the css links
- [ ] Laura - cname setup
- [ ] Laura - fix the double-workflow issue on the site

## 18 July 2025
### Attendees:
- Laura Santamaria (she/her; Red Hat)
- Hristo Marinov
- Fernando Lozano
- Colin Walters (he/him; Red Hat)
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Matteo Piccinini (n/a)
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank)
- Dusty Mabe
- Chris Kyrouac
- Gursewak Mangat
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
-

### Agenda:
- Release 1.5.1: {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/pull/1422 %}
- Thanks @robert!
- [Laura] project pavilion update?
- Request form due Monday, shouldn't block on travel
- Let's do it live
- ✅
- [Laura] Static site generation for landing page
- Review!
- {%preview https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc-dev.github.io/pull/3 %}
- adding logos as examples: https://fedoraproject.org/coreos/; https://projectbluefin.io/
- [Colin] QMU banned contributions from AI. Want to talk about it. Contribution policy?
- Thoughts?
- Require use of `<Assisted-by>` tag to identify model/tool
- Errant AI comment contributed to recent bug
- [John] +1 on attribution
- [Dusty] do we want to limit, or allow?
- [Colin] has a pretty big impact, so want to know what folks think
- [Joseph] note in readme or contributing section makes sense. Maybe have a bot that highlights that on PR? People probably won't say anything because part of workflow
- [Dusty] Can't prevent, but policy. Any examples of wasted time on clearly generated by AI PR
- [Colin] Can tell 90% of the time. Most modern foundational models love bulleted lists, so it's obvious. Kinda wacky to put md doc in top level of repo for PR
- [Laura] gave overview from OSPO and the other container group discussion
- [Colin] Will open a discussion

### TODO:
- [ ] Laura to explore adding logos to PR.
- [ ] Laura to add GitHub Actions for publication
- [ ] Look for info on domain handling for static site
- [ ] Colin to open a discussion about the AI assisted PRs
- [x] Laura to find and share the public Containers Cabal recording

## 11 July 2025
### Attendees:
- Joseph Marrero Corchado (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Colin Walters
- Robert Sturla (Tesco Bank/Universal Blue)
- Laura Santamaria (she/her)
- Hristo Marinov
- John Eckersberg (Red Hat, Inc.)
- Dusty (he/him)
- Antheas Kapenekakis (Bazzite)
- Mohan
- Chris Kyrouac
- Gursewak Mangat

### Agenda:
- New release status https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1390
- folks agreed on this
- [Laura] [KubeCon NA 2025](https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-north-america/) [Project Pavilion application](https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-north-america/features-add-ons/project-opportunities/#description-of-opportunities)
- November 10-13 - Atlanta, Georgia
- Who is going to KubeCon NA 2025 already?
- Laura
- We'll get a project pavilion submission scheduled (probably from Joseph or Colin who already submitted a talk)
- Ublue - Collaboration
- Folks are joining :)
- Robert, Antheas from the Ublue community
- Colin would like to do 1:1s
- dustymabe: an office hours like set time could help facilitate this (+1 - Laura)
- rechunker alignment https://github.com/hhd-dev/rechunk
- progress-fd: https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1016
- systemd-sysext frontend: https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/7
- Motivated by combinatorial explosion of gnome|kde * nvidia|amd * surface|framework|lenovo
- discussion of downsides of systemd-sysext as defined today, vs

### TODO:
* [x] Put project pavilion application
* [x] Keep smaller, more focused meetings