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    # DeFi.WTF 共笔 ## 常用 - [Eventbrite 注册地址](https://www.eventbrite.com/e/defiwtf-tickets-72483123975#) - [Youtube 直播地址](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8fBFhi-EE0) - [Slides](https://github.com/Andoromeda-Foundation/sennnyodennpa/tree/master/Resouces/DeFi.WTF/Speakers%20Presentation) - [填坑记录(WIP)](https://hackmd.io/6HvBE4yrS8m1ej_B6uvpEQ) ## Table <table class="table table-bordered table-hover table-condensed"> <thead><tr><th title="Field #1">FIELD1</th> <th title="Field #2">DeFi.WTF Agenda<br/>2019.10.7 | Osaka, Japan</th> <th title="Field #3">FIELD3</th> <th title="Field #4">FIELD4</th> <th title="Field #5">FIELD5</th> </tr></thead> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"></td> <td>Topic</td> <td>Time</td> <td>Speaker/Panelist</td> <td>Presentation Deck</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right"></td> <td>Sign-in</td> <td>9:30-10:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">1</td> <td>Bird&#39;s-eye View of the Emergent Ethereum DeFi Microcosm</td> <td>10:00-10:30</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td>Story of DeFi: How it Started, Where It Stands Now, DeFi Definition Revisited</td> <td>10-min Presentations</td> <td>Felix Feng @Set Protocol</td> <td><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1laDWhcLwCQdPR_4gkv-zo3jA-qHmlX6GdpANzE-yRw4/edit?usp=sharing</td>">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1laDWhcLwCQdPR_4gkv-zo3jA-qHmlX6GdpANzE-yRw4/edit?usp=sharing</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">1.2</td> <td>DeFi East Meets West</td> <td>20-min Fireside Chat</td> <td>Camila Russo @the Defiant<br/>Diane Dai @CypherJump</td> <td><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Cq0j1EbnBkRtt2EnFTcPMMpuLiKHPEXbbRnXfTYW1JQ/edit?usp=sharing</td>">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Cq0j1EbnBkRtt2EnFTcPMMpuLiKHPEXbbRnXfTYW1JQ/edit?usp=sharing</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">2</td> <td>Evolution of Liquidity</td> <td>10:30-11:30</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td>DeFi Moneyness</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Sunny Aggarwal @Cosmos</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OLBc2mmnS9XWEZHrsK_u7N2V2AxupDAPq6OHocR6GkY</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OLBc2mmnS9XWEZHrsK_u7N2V2AxupDAPq6OHocR6GkY</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td>A Brief History Of Decentralized Exchange</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Tom Schmidt @0x</td> <td><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zGwAJiSVYEoXpwcEF1jRbQIUNgYILBu96FkRuXkH1xg/edit?usp=sharing</td>">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zGwAJiSVYEoXpwcEF1jRbQIUNgYILBu96FkRuXkH1xg/edit?usp=sharing</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td>Deep Dive into DeFi Liquidity O (Moderator) James Preswich @Summa @tBTC Illia Polosukhim @Near Sunny Aggarwal rator) Ameen Soleimani @MolochDAO & @Spankchain Peter Pan @MetaCartel Jorge Izquierdo @Aragon Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao @Cosmos Dan Robinson @Paradigm Jake Kim@Everett Models</td> <td>30-min Fireside Chat</td> <td>Alex Evans @Placeholder (Moderator)<br/>Tom Schmidt @0x<br/>Lev Livnev @DappHub</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">3</td> <td> Implications of Intra- and Inter-dependencies</td> <td>11:30-12:30</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td>Visualizing DeFi: The Evolution of a Connected System</td> <td>10-min Presentations</td> <td>Christian Crowley @Alethio</td> <td><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uPw6HanHvMCJt1V2kIYb54alDZTQFjvRf5mvq_PadcQ/edit?usp=sharing</td>">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uPw6HanHvMCJt1V2kIYb54alDZTQFjvRf5mvq_PadcQ/edit?usp=sharing</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td>Trust &amp; Transparency</td> <td>20-min Fireside Chat</td> <td>Shruti Appiah (Moderator)<br/>James Preswich @Summa @tBTC<br/>Sunny Aggarwal @Cosmos</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td>Liquid Collaterals: Trojan Horse of Protocol Economics?</td> <td>30-min Panel</td> <td>TIna Zhen @YellowHatDAO (Moderator)<br/>James Preswich @Summa @tBTC<br/>Illia Polosukhim @Near<br/>Sunny Aggarwal rator) Ameen Soleimani @MolochDAO & @Spankchain Peter Pan @MetaCartel Jorge Izquierdo @Aragon Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao @Cosmos<br/>Dan Robinson @Paradigm<br/>Jake Kim@Everett</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">4</td> <td>WTF Talks &amp; Lunch</td> <td>12:30-13:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">5</td> <td>Putting the &quot;De&quot; Back in DeFi</td> <td>13:00-14:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">5.1</td> <td>Some Issues in DeFi Centralization</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Lev Livnev @Dapp.org @SCP</td> <td><a href="<a href="https://lev.liv.nev.org.uk/defiwtf/">Slide</a></td>">https://lev.liv.nev.org.uk/defiwtf/">Slide</a></td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">5.2</td> <td>DAO in DeFi &amp; &amp; DeFi in DAO</td> <td>45-min Panel</td> <td><ul><li>Jenna Zenk @MelonCouncil @AvantgardeFinance (Moderator)</li><li>Ameen Soleimani @MolochDAO &amp; @Spankchain</li><li>Peter Pan @MetaCartel</li><li>Jorge Izquierdo @Aragon</li><li>Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao</li></ul></td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">6</td> <td>Attacks and Defenses</td> <td>14:00-15:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">6.1</td> <td>DeFi Risk Assessment Framework</td> <td>10-min Presentation</td> <td>Jack Clancy @CoDeFi</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=16N_RuVcL6Ak3nH1MKB5iXxvKG7HCTfvV</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=16N_RuVcL6Ak3nH1MKB5iXxvKG7HCTfvV</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td>Attack Vectors in DeFi Ecosystem: Smart Contract, Oracle, Liquidity Hack, etc</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Chiachi Wu @Peckshield</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UnVHNJR3_junjj9878zOAgv_AZ-MP7Bt</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UnVHNJR3_junjj9878zOAgv_AZ-MP7Bt</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">6.3</td> <td>Modeling Financial Risk Transfers: Casestudy on MakerDAO Credit Events</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Alex Evans @Placeholder</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=15ku6NE71ZjaQBU4zsBTiMjxMv0dRpug1</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=15ku6NE71ZjaQBU4zsBTiMjxMv0dRpug1</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">6.4</td> <td>Cascading Failures through Highly Coupled Systems</td> <td>20-min Presentation</td> <td>Shruti Appiah</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KvfQu0YZ-fi7fZIKlRcy_NItFeFbN1qG</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KvfQu0YZ-fi7fZIKlRcy_NItFeFbN1qG</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7</td> <td>Conversation with Your DeFi Investor</td> <td>15:00-16:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7.1</td> <td>How to think about Value?</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Joel Monegro @Placeholder</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KheJBOxGj9qO5aKN3_DNKDVRrTLi9xTw</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KheJBOxGj9qO5aKN3_DNKDVRrTLi9xTw</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7.2</td> <td>Capture Value in DeFi: What didn&#39;t Work and What&#39;s Next</td> <td>45-min Panel</td> <td>Mable Jiang @Nirvana Cap (Moderator)<br/>Chris McCann @Proof of Capital<br/>Lasse Clausen @1kx<br/>Richard Chen @1confirmation<br/>Haseeb Qureshi @Dragonfly<br/>Niraj Pant @Polychain</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">8</td> <td>Inception vs. Deception</td> <td>16:00-17:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">8.1</td> <td>Chasing Yield: Interest Rates &amp; Crypto Native Yields</td> <td>30-min Panel</td> <td>Tom Schmidt @0x (Moderator)<br/>Dan Robinson @Paradigm<br/>Zhuoxun Yin @Dydx<br/>Trent Elmore @Topo Finance<br/>Jacob Shiach @Metamoneymarket<br/>Kyle Kistner @bZx</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">8.2</td> <td>Should We and Can We Go from Over-collateralization to Under-collateralization?</td> <td>30-min Panel</td> <td>Haseeb Qureshi @Dragonfly (Moderator)<br/>Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao<br/>Allison Lu @UMA<br/>Kyle Kistner @bZx<br/>Mindao Yang @dForce @USDx</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9</td> <td>DeFi Product-Market-Fit</td> <td>17:00-18:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9.1</td> <td>Mapping the Mass Adoption Puzzle: Missing Pieces within the DeFi Stack</td> <td>30-min Panel</td> <td>See Eun @Nonce (Moderator)<br/>Tony Sheng @Multicoin<br/>Andrew Albertson @Fenwick &amp; West<br/>Itamar Lesuisse @Argent<br/>Hayden Adams @Uniswap<br/>Vadim Koleoshkin @Zerion</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9.2</td> <td>DeFi&#39;s Real vs Expected Users: Institutions v.s. Retail, Human v.s. Bots v.s. Other Smart Contracts?</td> <td>30-min Panel</td> <td>Camila Russo @the Defiant (Moderator)<br/>Hayden Adams @Uniswap<br/>Bowen Wang @DDex<br/>Philip Seifert @imToken<br/>Andrew Keys @DARMA Capital<br/>Chao Pan @MakerDAO</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">10</td> <td>What&#39;s Next for DeFi</td> <td>18:00-19:00</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">10.1</td> <td>Global Legal Landscape for DeFi</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Dan Friedberg @Fenwick &amp; West</td> <td><a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=15GBx02nZNwagk1oyrV94ERefapZK612d</td>">https://drive.google.com/open?id=15GBx02nZNwagk1oyrV94ERefapZK612d</td></a> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">10.2</td> <td>Implication of ETH 1.0 to 2.0 for the Highly Coupled DeFi Stack</td> <td>15-min Presentation</td> <td>Karl Floerach</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">10.3</td> <td>DeFi Bull vs. DeFi Bear: A Debate</td> <td>20-min Debate</td> <td>Kyle Kistner @bZx (Bull)<br/>Andrew Keys @DARMA Capital (Bear)</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">10.4</td> <td>DeFi.WTF: Call for Research &amp; Experiments</td> <td>10-min Talk</td> <td>Tina Zhen @Yellow Hat DAO<br/>Toya B @Nervos<br/>Shruti Appiah (Independent Researcher)<br/>Camila Russo @The Defiant<br/>Jenna Zenk @Melonport</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> |c |Topic |Speaker/Panelist |Slides |Video Recap | |---|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------| |1 |Bird's-eye View of the Emergent Ethereum DeFi Microcosm | | | | |1.1|Story of DeFi: How it Started, Where It Stands Now, DeFi Definition Revisited|Felix Feng @Set Protocol |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1laDWhcLwCQdPR_4gkv-zo3jA-qHmlX6GdpANzE-yRw4/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a> | <a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=31" target = "_blank">Video </a> |1.2|DeFi East Meets West (Fire-s ide Chat) |Camila Russo @the Defiant Diane Dai @CypherJump |FIELD1|Topic |Speaker/Panelist |Slides |Video Recap | |------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------| |1 |Bird's-eye View of the Emergent Ethereum DeFi Microcosm | | | | |1.1 |Story of DeFi: How it Started, Where It Stands Now, DeFi Definition Revisited|Felix Feng @Set Protocol |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1laDWhcLwCQdPR_4gkv-zo3jA-qHmlX6GdpANzE-yRw4/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=31" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |FIELD1|Topic |Speaker/Panelist/Moderator* |Slides |Video Recap | |------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------| |1 |Bird's-eye View of the Emergent Ethereum DeFi Microcosm | | | | |1.1 |Story of DeFi: How it Started, Where It Stands Now, DeFi Definition Revisited|Felix Feng @Set Protocol |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1laDWhcLwCQdPR_4gkv-zo3jA-qHmlX6GdpANzE-yRw4/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=1" target = "_blank">Video (Bilibili) </a> | |1.2 |DeFi East Meets West (Fire-side Chat) |Camila Russo @the Defiant Diane Dai @CypherJump |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Cq0j1EbnBkRtt2EnFTcPMMpuLiKHPEXbbRnXfTYW1JQ/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=2" target = "_blank">Video (Bilibili) </a>| |2 |Evolution of Liquidity | | | | |2.1 |DeFi Moneyness |Sunny Aggarwal @Cosmos |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OLBc2mmnS9XWEZHrsK_u7N2V2AxupDAPq6OHocR6GkY" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=1053" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |2.2 |A Brief History Of Decentralized Exchange |Tom Schmidt @0x |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zGwAJiSVYEoXpwcEF1jRbQIUNgYILBu96FkRuXkH1xg/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=2002" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |2.3 |Deep Dive into DeFi Liquidity Models (panel) |Alex Evans @Placeholder * Tom Schmidt @0x Lev Livnev @DappHub Kyle Kistner @bZx |n.a. |<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=3065" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |3 | Implications of Intra- and Inter-dependencies | | | | |3.1 |Visualizing DeFi: The Evolution of a Connected System |Christian Crowley @Alethio |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uPw6HanHvMCJt1V2kIYb54alDZTQFjvRf5mvq_PadcQ/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=4750" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |3.2 |Trust & Transparency |Shruti Appiah * James Preswich @Summa @tBTC Sunny Aggarwal @Cosmos |n.a. |<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=5280" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |3.3 |Liquid Collaterals: Trojan Horse of Protocol Economics? |TIna Zhen @YellowHatDAO * James Preswich @Summa @tBTC Illia Polosukhim @Near Sunny Aggarwal @Cosmos Dan Robinson @Paradigm Jake Kim@Everett |n.a. |<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=6578" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |4 |WTF Talks & Lunch | | | | |5 |Putting the "De" Back in DeFi | | | | |5.1 |Some Issues in DeFi Centralization |Lev Livnev @Dapp.org @SCP |<a href = "https://lev.liv.nev.org.uk/defiwtf/" target = "_blank">Slides </a> |<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=12052" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |5.2 |DAO in DeFi & & DeFi in DAO |Jenna Zenk @MelonCouncil @AvantgardeFinance * Ameen Soleimani @MolochDAO @Spankchain Peter Pan @MetaCartel Jorge Izquierdo @Aragon Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao |n.a. |<a href = "https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=12998" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |6 |Attacks and Defenses | | | | |6.1 |DeFi Risk Assessment Framework |Jack Clancy @CoDeFi |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=16N_RuVcL6Ak3nH1MKB5iXxvKG7HCTfvV" target = "_blank">Slides </a> |<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=17" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |6.2 |Attack Vectors in DeFi Ecosystem |Chiachi Wu @Peckshield |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UnVHNJR3_junjj9878zOAgv_AZ-MP7Bt" target = "_blank">Slides </a> |<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=18" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |6.3 |Modeling Financial Risk Transfers: Casestudy on MakerDAO Credit Events |Alex Evans @Placeholder |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=15ku6NE71ZjaQBU4zsBTiMjxMv0dRpug1" target = "_blank">Slides </a> |<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=19" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |6.4 |Cascading Failures through Highly Coupled Systems |Shruti Appiah |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KvfQu0YZ-fi7fZIKlRcy_NItFeFbN1qG" target = "_blank">Slides </a> | | |7 |Conversation with Your DeFi Investor | | | | |7.1 |How to think about Value? |Joel Monegro @Placeholder |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KheJBOxGj9qO5aKN3_DNKDVRrTLi9xTw" target = "_blank">Slides </a> | | |7.2 |Capture Value in DeFi: What didn't Work and What's Next |Mable Jiang @Nirvana Capital * Chris McCann @Proof of Capital Lasse Clausen @1kx Richard Chen @1confirmation Haseeb Qureshi @Dragonfly Niraj Pant @Polychain |n.a. |Coming Soon | |8 |Inception vs. Deception | | | | |8.1 |Chasing Yield: Interest Rates & Crypto Native Yields |Tom Schmidt @0x * Dan Robinson @Paradigm Zhuoxun Yin @Dydx Trent Elmore @Topo Finance Jacob Shiach @Metamoneymarket Kyle Kistner @bZx |n.a. |<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=20" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |8.2 |Should We and Can We Go from Over-collateralization to Under-collateralization?|Haseeb Qureshi @Dragonfly * Martin Koppelman @Gnosis @Dxdao Allison Lu @UMA Kyle Kistner @bZx Mindao Yang @dForce @USDx |n.a. |Coming Soon | |9 |DeFi Product-Market-Fit | | | | |9.1 |Mapping the Mass Adoption Puzzle: Missing Pieces within the DeFi Stack |See Eun @Nonce * Tony Sheng @Multicoin Andrew Albertson @Fenwick&West Itamar Lesuisse @Argent Victor Zhang @AlphaWallet @TokenScript Vadim Koleoshkin @Zerion |n.a. |Coming Soon | |9.2 |DeFi's Real vs Expected Users: Institutions v.s. Retail, Human v.s. Bots v.s. Other Smart Contracts?|Camila Russo @the Defiant * Noah Zeitmeister @Uniswap Bowen Wang @DDex Philip Seifert @imToken Andrew Keys @DARMA Capital Chao Pan @MakerDAO |n.a. |Coming Soon | |10 |What's Next for DeFi | | | | |10.1 |Global Legal Landscape for DeFi |Dan Friedberg @Fenwick&West |<a href = "https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10zTJCI8GW6s7pVoLfXthR6kiPE-vDptkR_mkwzWR3go/edit?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>|<a href = "https://www.bilibili.com/video/av70493085/?p=22" target = "_blank">Video </a> | |10.2 |Implication of ETH 1.0 to 2.0 for the Highly Coupled DeFi Stack |Karl Floerach @Plasma |<a href = "https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q8KtLKczHD5YUwCyi4bJV2s-TBe2AQ6O/view?usp=sharing" target = "_blank">Slides </a>| | |10.3 |DeFi Bull vs. DeFi Bear: A Debate |Kyle Kistner @bZx (Bull) Andrew Keys @DARMA Capital (Bear) |n.a. |Coming Soon | |10.4 |DeFi.WTF: Call for Research & Experiments |Tina Zhen @YellowHatDAO Toya B @Nervos Shruti Appiah (Independent Researcher) Camila Russo @The Defiant Jenna Zenk @Melonport |n.a. |Coming Soon | ## Timestamp ### Section 2 > Clearly hundreds of people agree that bananas are money. So, this just doesn't seem right. You know, banana don't seem like money, so what is going on here? 2.1 Moneyness:Why ETH isn’t Money, https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=1062 > DEX volume still a long ways off from matching CEX volume. Need to focus on unique value props of DEX. 2.2 Tom Schmidt @0x - Evolution of Exchange Architecture of DEXes, https://youtu.be/M8fBFhi-EE0?t=1986

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