# 0x Salon Projects Meetup ::: Agenda & Notes

Next meeting in Jan, date TBC! Enjoy your winter whatever :)

## XX Jan Meeting
### Agenda for XX Jan

## 14th Dec Meeting
### Agenda for 14th Dec
We’ll prioritise discussing upcoming *0x004 The Forest From The Trees* salons just announced and the *0x003 Algorithmic Realism* article series which had its first outputs recently.

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#### 0x003 Algorithmic Realism ::: writeups published, future plan chat, attribution + contribution

The first two collectively authored 0x003 articles are online as public drafts. Hurrah. Please feel free to peruse and comment on PubPub, we are still tidying them up but it's high time to get them out there. Very welcome to share with colleagues!

We are particularly keen to hear thoughts on the **writing process and final form of these outputs**. We are being hyper-experimental in our approach and everything is open to question :)

Part I: Limits of the Algorithmic Concept
https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/fd8nsq2z/

Part 2: Algorithms and Algorismus
https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/prlnjutw/

Some **great feedback on the writeups** from a salon colleague who participated in both events and collective writing (lightly edited):
>there're many paragraphs like this [*zettelkasten / twitter style*], but then there're also some arbitrary lists (that imo are very rarely useful), assortions of links (that typically have the best place as "further reading" for an already self-contained ZK vignette), or those paragraphs that kinda trying to explain a complex problem but neither commit to a particular concept nor are satisfied with being too specific...
> so i'd propose **even shorter 2-paragraph-long pieces that always start with a particular question or concept or maybe name of a story, in bold. a vignette could be assembled with 3-4 of them.**
>i think **there's a good form and approach here that would be a fascinating find... and it's also imo a good idea to take this search for a process seriously**
I'm super curious about these documents because of the way authorship works in them. e.g., i recognise things that definitely came from me but then slightly changed, and things i'm definitely disagreeing with, and things that i don't understand, etc... **it's not some kind of an ideal "collaborative document" that everyone agrees with, but something different and in a way provocative** and i like it because **it's a different way to collaborate than many others, and one that preserves an inherent tension to the discussion. but it feels very experimental and imo needs more honing as a process.**

We need to discuss **attribution for salon participation and writeups**! W suggests opt-in attribution for contributor credit for all salon attendees, with W + D acknowledged as primary authors editors as we did >90% of the heavy lifting for 0x003.

Future plan - next articles in the series:
- timescale / target cadence (take into account holidays / upcoming events)
- form: more towards Feyerabend reduction / zettelkasten / vignette to preserve conversational dissensus?

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#### 0x004 The Forest from the Trees ::: digital salon planning

Finally, it's time to organise some 0x Salons again! Over recent weeks we have been laying the foundations for a series of 0x004 discussions over winter which will be curated by incredible co-hosts, more information on that soon. *Exciting things on the horizon.*

To prepare for all of that, we want to run some less formal sessions online. These will be an as-yet-undetermined number of events for **friends of the salon** - you lot - to participate in. This would also be a chance for people to join us for the first time, and a few of our upcoming co-hosts will also come along. We aren't planning to publish the recordings but would document privately for article writing later on, as we typically do.

Unlike past salons, we are going to try to put these events together in a logistically sane manner! **Help us by filling in this form to register interest and make sure we have contact details**. Don't take too long over the other stuff please, especially if we know you :) We'll be in touch with invitees regarding scheduling once the events timetable is drafted - there will be several slots available, mostly weekday European evenings. We may try to squeeze one or two into December, with others in January.

https://forms.gle/wMgMnbDJfmsFdab5A

Re: '*salon contribution credit*'. Well...this ain't a union shop and there is a great deal of voluntary labour going into the salon. However, spots at salons are in short supply and there seem to be a lot more people interested in attending than before. So here's the incentive structure: contribute meaningfully to 0x Salon's activities and projects for more frequent discussion invites. Transactional? Arguably. Cynical? Arguably. Necessary? Arguably...

## 30th Nov Meeting
### Agenda for 30th Nov
We’ll prioritise discussing upcoming salons and the “Anatomies of Algorithms” article related to 0x003 which is in the drafting stages.

#### Boring stuff

Next meeting 14th December

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#### 0x003 Algorithmic Realism ::: articles update & discussion

'[Anatomies of Algorithms](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yXBLrYoODYZa3hBiGYDtLw-f6xK52alJI8ulhv-IvbI/edit)' is almost ready for public draft we think? Please feel free to comment on the doc if you think we have missed something!

Also very happy to hear suggestions for sharp-eyed readers :)

Update: As these articles are more like developments of conversational vignettes than something with a "narrative arc" we are thinking of putting them out as individual pieces with later collation into a PubPub 'collection'.

The first section draft as a test: https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/fd8nsq2z/draft?access=llrfgjs5

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#### 0x004 The Forest from the Trees ::: digital salon planning

Yes, finally! Now planning a bunch of salons with co-hosts. News soon!

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#### 0x005 The Indifference Engine ::: update

[Upcoming topic page](https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/wqdaqp1s/) has been updated with '[Poetic Critiques of Bitcoin](https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/kx66y3td/)' and a definitional glossary text on '[Mining](https://policyreview.info/open-abstracts/mining)' authored by salon colleagues.

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#### Cards & other projects

Going to do a light redesign of the cards before printing
Next step is to have a chat about design & printing (WA/HvdD/NK?)

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## 23rd Nov Meeting

### Our Notes from 23/11
intro/housekeeping
* timing for 0xsalon calls: every two weeks (after next week)
* use wonder to mimic the TV bar / watercooler / hallway track experience
* how to retain people’s attention enough for a biweekly meeting to happen?
* Wonder: 100 max in space, 15max in conversation

future salon projects?
* moved too fast into Forest & Trees. we’re still spending time w algorithmic realism
* future discussion: more specific senses of algorithmic realism
* we’ve picked up on three lenses for examining algorithmic realism: “anatomy”, -isms, politics
* if we’re a multi-part entity, how do the different “parts” communicate?
* next new topic: bitcoin! its controversial, and controversy generates attention
* 0xSalon has no mechanism for picking topics

introductions
* S: great fun discussion :-). more clearly defined specific discussion? maybe sometimes
* when we’re promoting the salon, be more clear about what the event will be
* C: insta/josh citarella memes. good mix of people.
* B: following from the US. interest in discussion themes, and exploring relationship btw different media forms (insta, are.na, IRL, etc)
* N: found are.na cards, lives in berlin, “horizontal twilight spells”- structure of a card game as a form of knowledge/writing. the game is intentionally without mechanics
* E: enjoys interdisciplinary. concerned its too targeted on a “specific type” of person … “interintellect”, "stoa" etc
* R: enjoys the lack of structure and exploring new formats

magic cards
* wizards of the coast license doesn’t allow certain uses (sales)
* N: interest in color theory of game cards - the way that across card games, certain things might use the same color
* workflow: spreadsheet to indesign via Data Merge
* Magic card format: image, title, description
* pre-geneology: pen+paper games / role-play
* “collectable card games” free to play, then sell in-game items ie. skins, customizations.
* blockchain turns a collectable card game back into a trading card game
* NFT crypto forces everything into “unique” pieces
* card’s value in part derives from its utility or function
* bitcorn: the currency value deflated so the project became totally decoupled from its use as money

critiques of the salon
* on-boarding: when inviting people, set the context (especially important for virtual salons)
* use articles to further develop the “starting points” that are brought up during salon discussions
* upstream:? germinal seeds of new ideas (like an incubator?), or a signal aggregator/unified message (getting lots of influential people to think about the same thing)

### Agenda for 23rd Nov
#### Boring stuff
taking notes or indirectly recording?
meeting cadence - biweekly to avoid reading group conflict & keep it tighter? or keep a regular weekly pace w.looser attendance?

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#### 0x003 Algorithmic Realism ::: articles update & discussion

These articles are *finally* getting somewhere, it's been incredibly painful and laborious though. **We really need to figure out a better way to documenting** - let's discuss! :)

*Anatomies of Algorithms* is in a drafted state and is ready for your consumption. **Please feel free to read, comment, suggest changes & additions**. Thanks for participating in this collective process!

Comment-only links, ping Wassim for edit access!
- Anatomies of Algorithms
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yXBLrYoODYZa3hBiGYDtLw-f6xK52alJI8ulhv-IvbI/edit?usp=sharing

The other two documents derived from the 0x003 salons are still quite rough, so we're mainly looking for **comments and suggestions for materials to read and sub-topics to include** at the moment.
- Idealism, Formalism, Realism (*this title sucks help us pick a better one*)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q6SZYcLWtBCfKt8XL0_lxfEGl6Qf47HDSqo1mwDWsqA/edit?usp=sharing

- The Political Question & Its Abdication (*again not a final title*)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mzmzTxuM8kB8A6oCEiURG0mXcwdN8q0OhNrGZpdbB80/edit?usp=sharing

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#### 0x004 The Forest from the Trees ::: digital salon planning

Want to start planning a series of virtual salons for winter.

##### General plan
Starting with the current topic [The Forest From The Trees](https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/toq2tsbh/) but also revisiting [Algorithmic Realism](https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/2hegej2h/) to explore some of the topics that have come up while we've been writing up.

At some point it would be great to start planning for the next topic [The Indifference Engine](https://0xsalon.pubpub.org/pub/wqdaqp1s/) with a few pre-salons among the crew. Let's aim for this in January - so that there's at least *something* to look forward to this winter...

##### Operations/logistics

Maybe we'll also use Wonder - recording is not possible natively though (*could always go via OBS*)
6 panellists in a broadcast is fine, they could be rotated around sub-topics too I think? Or separate mini-broadcasts done. [R. says not to use VPNs if broadcasts are taking place]

##### Participants
Invite lists being prepared, open to suggestions! Salon crew also get preferential access, the more you help the more saloncoins you get which can be exchanged for provably scarce salon attendance spots :smile_cat:

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#### Magic cards & other projects

##### Magic things
- *Vibe check: Magic cards cool or nah?*
(FYI they seem quite good for building a following on social media)
https://www.are.na/0x-salon/magic-gallery

- A friendly gallery wants to help us do something with them :)

Two options discussed
1. remain immaterial and tokenise (meh / can do ourselves later / IP issues)
2. print small batches and sell as 15-card boosters

- Possible IP issues? WOTC has a fan license but it applies only to non-commercial use.

https://company.wizards.com/fancontentpolicy

> That means we ask you follow these rules:

> One word: F-R-E-E. You can use Wizards’ IP (except for the restrictions listed in #3) to make Fan Content that you share with the community for free. Free means FREE:
You can’t require payments, surveys, downloads, subscriptions, or email registration to access your Fan Content;
You can’t sell or license your Fan Content to any third parties for any type of compensation; and
Your Fan Content must be free for others (including Wizards) to view, access, share, and use without paying you anything, obtaining your approval, or giving you credit.
You can, however, subsidize your Fan Content by taking advantage of sponsorships, ad revenue, and donations—so long as it doesn’t interfere with the Community’s access to your Fan Content.

##### Print Research
https://draftsim.com/mtg-card-size/
- Need to do some print / design research. Who is good at that stuff? Not me!
- We would need to clean up the card text, check rights for images etc.
- Design packaging, back of card, salon logo (??)
- Choose a subset of cards to print - only 15? or a bigger range and we mix them.
- Print plastic sleeve packaging on the heat shrink foil
- Possibly a business card / flyer company printer that supports that size (ca. 63 × 88 mm x 0.305 mm)

##### Other TCGs
Thinking about making bespoke (non-Magic) cards...even a game? Who wants to get involved?

Just came across these cool ones for a non-playable game "Horizontal Twilight Spells" :smile:
https://www.are.na/nick-koppenhagen/horizontal-twilight-spells

(also IG: technothegathering)

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#### Critiques of the salon & learnings

A few conversations had since the last salon which were really helpful in thinking about how to do things better.

1)
W: I noticed you didn't say much, appreciate the distance between participants made it harder to engage than the previous one. We may reconfigure the layout in future.

A: Yes, we were a little far away at the back to effectively contribute without shouting, which is uncomfortable when masked. I also couldn't see any of you so it was a little disembodied.

A: I was expecting peer discussion rather than research presentations, as that was my experience last time around. Invariably the latter sets the speakers up as authorities so the dynamic of the discussion tends towards Q&A, which we saw to some extent. If readings have been suggested ahead of time, I would go with open peer discussion via a chair. If it's to be presentation based, it would be good to know ahead of time.

W: I would say of the four topics so far, two have been sufficiently bounded to be fairly free-flowing peer conversation whereas the two broader ones had a little more "presentational structure". It's a good call to discuss this explicitly in the event preamble to set expectations. Will also fold these thoughts into the layout discussion.

2)
S: What is the point of the salon and these broad, general discussions? What can you actually ***achieve*** through this medium of discourse?

W: writing up the algorithmic realism salon conversations into articles has been a reminder that there is quite a leap between the broad (and not-always-very-deep) conversations within the confines of the salon discourse itself, and where the articles need to get to in order to make some kind of meaningful contribution.

W: one way of thinking about it (the cop-out) is to say that the salon lives upstream from action and it should focus on bringing together researchers / knowledge workers interested in related ideas to form their own practices (reading & writing groups, praxis collectives etc)
W: but it would also be nice for the salon to somehow facilitate that bridge, as it tries to between disciplines and theory/practice. anyway, we have no answers just more questions at this stage :)

3)

Gap between salon discussion and where a written output with some "meaningful synthesis" would have to be. This gap was more easily bridged for epistemic trespassing than algorithmic realism. Why?

*Number of salons? (4 vs 2)*
*Breadth of topic (both similar imo)*
*Dispersion of duties (greater this time around)*