---
# System prepended metadata

title: 2nd International RSE Leaders Workshop 2020 - Collaborative document

---

2nd International RSE Leaders Workshop 2020 - Collaborative document
===

:::danger

:warning: _DO NOT SHARE_ :warning:
### Please don't share the link to this document, so that we can have open and honest discussions here.
:::

:::warning
:tada: **This is the one-stop collaborative document for the 2nd International RSE Leaders Workshop 2020.**

Welcome to the workshop!

You should be able to find all the info you need about the workshop in this document.

This is also where we share notes during the workshop.

If you need a quick intro on how to write Markdown in this document, please read the documentation here: https://hackmd.io/c/codimd-documentation/ ([*Understanding your editor*](https://hackmd.io/@codimd/understanding-your-editor) and [*Markdown Syntax reference*](https://hackmd.io/@codimd/markdown-syntax) may be especially helpful).

A really quick overview of Markdown is provided at [markdownguide.com](https://www.markdownguide.org/basic-syntax). Or have a look around in this document.
:::

:::info
- **Code of Conduct:** https://researchsoftware.org/2020-workshop/code-of-conduct.html
- **Location:** Zoom (https://hu-berlin.zoom.us/j/96679618282, password via email)
- **Persistent chat:** Slack channel [`#intlrse-workshop-2020`](https://ukrse.slack.com/archives/G019SQYTMDM) - :warning: If you don't have access to the UK RSE workspace yet, please either 
    - send an email to stephan.druskat@hu-berlin.de, Alys.Brett@ukaea.uk, p.richmond@sheffield.ac.uk with your email address, or
    - ping Alys Brett, Paul Richmond, and Stephan Druskat on the Zoom chat.
- **Social session:** [Gather.town room](https://gather.town/ykNaUSlmMMWg5kc0/intl-rse-leaders) (password: pretty-meeting-THROWN-FLOWER)
- **Slides:** http://bit.ly/intl-rse-leaders-2020-slides
- **Dates:** 
    - 15 September 2020, 12:30-16:10 (UTC)
    - 16 September 2020, 12:30-16:30 (UTC)
    - 30 September 2020, 12:30-15:30 (UTC)
- :bird: Twitter Hashtag: [#intlRSEleaders](https://twitter.com/search?q=%23intlRSEleaders)
:::

:::danger
## Table of contents

- [Agenda](#Agenda)
- [Introduction videos & discussion](#Introduction-videos-and-discussion)
- [Collaboration ideas](#Collaboration-ideas)
- [Collaborative notes Day 1](#Collaborative-Notes-Day-1)
- [Ideas bazaar](#Ideas-bazaar)
- [Participants](#Participants)
- [Group map](#Group-map)
:::

:::success
## Agenda

### Day 1 (15 September)

:wave: **Welcome & introduction** - [12:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Welcome+session&iso=20200915T1230&p1=1440&am=30)

short lightning talks of present RSE organisations by local representatives 

:handshake: **Icebreaker session** - [13:00 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Icebreaker&iso=20200915T13&p1=1440&ah=1&am=15)

- *Icebreaking in pairs*
- *Plenary presentations from the icebreaker pairs*

:coffee: **Break** - [14:10 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Break&iso=20200915T1410&p1=1440&am=15)

:seedling: **Collaborative session 1** - [14:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Collaborative+session+1&iso=20200915T1430&p1=1440&ah=1&am=30)

- *Collaborative session pitches* (in Zoom room)
- *Group bazaar*
- *Group formation, initial planning, collaborative work*

:wave: **Plenary wrap-up** - [16:00 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Plenary+Wrap-up&iso=20200915T16&p1=1440&am=10)

:cocktail: **Optional: Social session** - [16:10 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Social+session&iso=20200915T1610&p1=1440&ah=1)

---

### Day 2 (16 September)

:wave: **Welcome back** - [12:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Welcome+back&iso=20200916T1230&p1=1440&am=10)

:bulb: **Invited talk: "Does Research Software Engineering have a diversity crisis, and what can we do?" (Neil Chue Hong, SSI & EPCC)** - [12:40 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Invited+talk&iso=20200916T1240&p1=1440&am=30)

:spiral_note_pad: **Brief presentations of work plan from groups** - [13:10 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Brief+presentations+of+work+plan+from+groups&iso=20200916T1310&p1=1440&am=30)

:seedling: **Collaborative session 2** - [13:40 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Collaborative+session+2&iso=20200916T1340&p1=1440&ah=2&am=30)

:coffee: :green_salad: **Break(s)**

:seedling: **Collaborative session 2 cont.**

:wave: **Plenary wrap-up** - [16:10 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Plenary+wrap-up&iso=20200916T1610&p1=1440&am=20)

:cocktail: **Optional: Social session** - [16:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Social+session&iso=20200916T1630&p1=1440&ah=1)

---

### Day 3 (30 September)

:wave: **Welcome back** - [12:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Welcome+back&iso=20200930T1230&p1=1440&am=20)

:confetti_ball: **Group presentations & discussion** - [12:50 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Group+presentations&iso=20200930T1250&p1=1440&ah=2)

:coffee: **Break**

:confetti_ball: **Group presentations & discussion cont.**

:crystal_ball: **Planning next steps, including future workshops** - [14:50 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Planning+future+workshops&iso=20200930T1450&p1=1440&am=30)

:wave: **Workshop wrap-up** - [15:20 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Workshop+wrap-up&iso=20200930T1520&p1=1440&am=10)

:cocktail: **Optional: Social session** - [15:30 UTC](https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Social+session&iso=20200930T1530&p1=1440&ah=1)


:::

---

# Introduction videos and discussion

:::info
:bulb: In this section, you can comment on, or discuss the introduction videos from participants and RSE initiatives.

Please use *nested lists* for the discussion. If you refer to a previous comment, please add a new line, indent it by (another) 4 whitespaces, and add a new bullet point (starting the line with `-`). Something like this:

```
#### Stephan Druskat
:clapper: Stephan_Druskat.mp4

##### Discussion:
- P Articipant (PA): Hi Stephan, I think I can help with your question about governance models.
    - SD: Cool, thanks, tell me everything you know.
    - PA: No probs, so in our RSE community, we ...
        - AN: Great idea!
- A Nother (AN): One solution for your participation issue would be a fellowship scheme?
    - SD: Oh yea! I haven't thought about that! But where does the money for this come from?
```

- All video files are located at **https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/**. The password has been sent via email.
- Participants' videos just below
- :point_right: [RSE initiatives' videos below participants' videos](#RSE-initiative-videos)

:::

#### Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran
:clapper: [Alejandra_Gonzalez-Beltran](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Alejandra_Gonzalez-Beltran.mp4)

##### Discussion: 
* KST: Interested to discuss how to motivate teams
* AB: related to motivation, I was wondering if you came across discussions with higher management on software stack consolidation for 'classical' research software (e.g. we prefer to use React for web applications)?
    * AGB: that's interesting - do you mean that using a popular technology being a motivator for RSEs and how higher managmenet sees this?


---

#### Alexander Botzki
:clapper: [Alexander_Botzki](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Alexander_Botzki.mp4)

##### Discussion:

- Frank Löffler: I'd like to know more about the RSE-day in December. It sounds interesting. Will this be online or not?
- AB: it will be online, more info and registration here: https://www.be-rse.org/rsdd2020 
- FL: 👍

---

#### Ben van Werkhoven
:clapper: [Ben_van_Werkhoven](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Ben_van_Werkhoven.mp4)

##### Discussion:


---

#### Christine Rogers, Montreal Neurological Institute
:clapper: [Christine_Rogers](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Christine_Rogers.mp4)


##### Discussion: 
- Funding and Metrics for open source academic projects, Scalability of projects and RSE teams, interoperabilty and adoptability of systems, Open Science
- Canadian RSE community
- AB: what are current funding mechanisms? In our institute, it is funded via an internal Technology Funds. Other projects via national competitive research funding or Chan Zuckerberg fundation.

---

#### Dan Katz
:clapper: [Dan_Katz](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Dan_Katz.mp4)

##### Discussion:
* KST: Interesting points. I would also welcome a clearfication of the role of the "society" - are/should we all be part of the "mother"-organization?

---

#### David Yuan
:clapper: [David_Yuan](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/David_Yuan.mp4)

##### Discussion:

* AB: How to you see the link with the ELIXIR project?

---

#### Erik van den Bergh
:clapper: [Erik_van_den_Bergh](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Erik_van_den_Bergh.mp4)

##### Discussion:

- AB: maintaining standards is a great topic. How do you address the technology advancement vs. having stable development frameworks?

---

#### Florencia D'Andrea
:clapper: [Florencia_D-Andrea](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Florencia_D-Andrea.mp4)

##### Discussion:

- Frank Löffler to the question of method of communication: adapting to what a large portion of the community uses is likely best, even if it might not be #1 for yourself. So: find out how they like to communicate. Had to learn that myself.
- JG: I'm from Colombia and I'm interested in your initiative of building RSE community in Latin America! I hope we can work together.
- pvanheus: Hi, your description of organising for Latin America sounds in some way similar to how I am trying to cover Africa. Right now I am trying to get a website up to make RSSE-Africa more visible, and I hope that the reach of the Internet will mean we have a "critical mass" for the continent.

---

#### Frank Löffler
:clapper: [Frank_Löffler](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Frank_L%C3%B6ffler.mp4)

(away from 2pm to ~3pm UTC)

##### Discussion:

---

#### Ian Cosden
:clapper: [Ian_Cosden](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Ian_Cosden.mp4)

##### Discussion:
* KST: :+1: for advocating RSE more broadly. Perhaps we could start with a central repository collecting success stories (e.g. anything where RSE explicitly helped research)
* RB: I was impressed about the number of members.

---

#### Jeremy Cohen
:clapper: [Jeremy_Cohen](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Jeremy_Cohen.mp4)

##### Discussion:

---

#### Johan Philips
:clapper: [Johan_Philips](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Johan_Philips.mp4)

##### Discussion:

- Frank Löffler: Thanks for sharing the the picture of "the π-shaped researcher". :+1: 
  - JP: You're welcome, although it seems I forgot to give credit to Alex Szalay, who came up with the term.
  - DSK: And Alex came up with it in the context of data science
  - AB: indeed great concept the PI-shaped researcher. Holds true for a lot of areas.
  - AB: where are the issues? Finding the rigth people or reaching the appropriate fora for dissemination of job ads? 

---

#### Jonathan Frawley
:clapper: [Jonathan_Frawley](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Jonathan_Frawley.mp4)

##### Discussion: 

* PR: Have suggested that this is something which I would be very keen to support. Perhaps nationally first but expanding beyond any single Tier 2 facility to forma  national community of GPU/AI performance experts. This would include RSEs but not exclusively.
---

#### Juanita Gomez
:clapper: Juanita_Gomez.mov

##### Discussion:

---

#### Julia Damerow
:clapper: Julia_Damerow.mp4

##### Discussion: SJ started something, you might be interested in: https://pad.gwdg.de/dKcY6QmRS4yCnKCFVOglng?edit

---

#### Konstantin Stadler
:clapper: Konstantin_Stadler.mp4

##### Discussion: SJ: no sound for me watching on iPad.

* DSK: re RSE career paths, see Figure 2 in https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.00732 as a high-level view of the NCSA career steps/levels for RSEs
* MSH: I’m sharing the RSE (Software/Data Professional) Job Family Matrix at Harvard University: http://bit.ly/rse_harvard. `Junior RSE`: IT RC Software/Data Professional II. `RSE`: IT RC Software/Data Professional III. `Senior RSE`: IT RC Software/Data Professional IV. `Lead RSE`: IT RC Software/Data Professional V. `Principal Research Software Architect`: IT RC Software/Data Professional VI. Also a separate track for MGMT.

---

#### Mahmood Mohammadi Shad
:clapper: Mahmood_Mohammadi_Shad.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### Martin Horsch
:clapper: [Martin_Horsch](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Martin_Horsch.mp4)


##### Discussion:
* SJ: Do you have a link to the initative for middle sector academia work environment improvements?
* Yes, it is https://mittelbau.net/ :+1: 

---

#### Mateusz Kuzak
:clapper: [Mateusz_Kuzak.mp4](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Mateusz_Kuzak.mp4)

##### Discussion:
* governance model
---

#### Mohammad Mirkazemi
:clapper: Mohammad_Mirkazemi.mp4

##### Discussion:
 * SJ: NFDI, NFDI4RSE should take care of your problem, sadly no ETA. FL is involved there as mastermind. :+1:
 * 
---

#### Nicholas May
:clapper: Nick_May.mp4

##### Discussion:
* secretary of steering committee of RSE-AUNZ -  formalising the assoc.
---

#### Paul Richmond
:clapper: Paul_Richmond.mp4

##### Discussion:
* who should run intl. RSE conf? 
    * not sure who has asked this but my view (which I cover in my intro) is that it should be run by all of us. I have suggested idea solution 2 for pitch session 1. Combined with session 2, we could have a formal governance group with heads of associations agreeing when international events should take place. Alternating the location of the international conference each year would allow us to share the responsibility.

* formal intl. steering committee 
    * Yes I think this is required to ensure that we are all bought into international discussions and decisions
---

#### Peter van Heusden 
:clapper: Peter_van_Heusden.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### Radek Lonka
:clapper: Radek_Lonka.mp4

##### Discussion:
* SJ: how to grow?
---

#### Radovan Bast
:clapper: Radovan_Bast.mp4

##### Discussion:
* KST: Think before we try to promote RSE Nordic we need to be clear what we offer. I believe, "RSEphilic" persons find us one way or another; however, the larger pool are "typical" researchers which might fall into RSE without knowing it. These might perhaps not be so interested to just join another "interest" group but probably gauge carefully what they could get out of it for their day to day work. This then raises the (open) question: is the community for these people, or are we more interested to have connections between RSE "multipliers/"activists" (aka Druskat) which then reach out to the researchers on a local level.
  - RB: Good point. New interest groups are nice but it often means yet another chat to watch, more meetings to attend and it is important to get something out of it.
* KST: Regarding promoting RSE: Perhaps we could start with a central repository collecting success stories (e.g. anything were RSE explicitly helped research). Gathering inital data for this could be part of the next survey (at Simon Hettrick)
    * SJ: +1
* SJ: competences bound to orcid?
---

#### Richard Darst
:clapper: Richard_Darst.mp4

##### Discussion:
* procedures for internal operation
---

#### Simon Hettrick
:clapper: Simon_Hettrick.mp4

##### Discussion:
* KST: Perhaps the next survey could also ask for contribution of RSE groups/individuals to research outcomes (see comment for Radovan Bast)

---

#### Stephan Druskat
:clapper: Stephan_Druskat.mp4

##### Discussion:

- SD: Perhaps the issue of mobilizing the own community through the implementation of specific association governance models can be discussed in group (11)? What do you think, Mateusz?

---

#### Stephan Janosch
:clapper: Stephan_Janosch.mov

##### Discussion:

---

#### Thibaut Lestang
:clapper: Thibault_Lestang.mp4

##### Discussion:
* building RSE communities
---

#### Thomas Pronk
:clapper: [Thomas_Pronk.mp4](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Thomas_Pronk.mp4)

##### Discussion:

---

#### Thor Wikfeldt
:clapper: Will_Usher_and_Thor_Wikfeldt.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### Will Usher
:clapper: Will_Usher_and_Thor_Wikfeldt.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

## RSE initiative videos

#### de-RSE
:clapper: de_RSE_intro.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### Nordic RSE
:clapper: Nordic_RSE_intro.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### RSSE Africa
:clapper: RSSE_Africa_intro.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### US RSE
:clapper: US_RSE_intro.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

#### Society of Research Software Engineering (UK)
:clapper: Soc-RSE_intro.mp4

##### Discussion:

---

# Collaboration ideas

:::info
:bulb: In this section, you can add ideas that you would like to work on during the workshop. Please be ready to present your idea in a short **pitch presentation** on Day 1 of the workshop! You can use slides and share them during the presentation if you like, but you don't have to.

**Please copy the "Pitch name template" and paste it as the last pitch to avoid breaking the consecutive numbering.** :slightly_smiling_face: 
:::

## Pitch name template
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Your name(s)
- :handshake: **Participants (max. n):** If you are interested in collaborating, please add your name here (Pitcher can set a maximum, suggested: max. 6 including pitcher)
- **Context:** Does your idea have a specific context?
- **Problem:** What is the problem you want to solve?
- **Idea for solution:** What are your ideas for a solution of this problem?
- :house: **Breakout room:** (will be provided by the organizers)
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** (will be provided by the organizers)
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:**

## Annual International RSE Conference -> now in (2)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** David Yuan
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):** 
  - Jeremy Cohen (keen to be part of this group but will be in group 5 - will join later if possible)
  - Florencia D'Andrea (I am chair of a conference in LatAm, I will be working in group 12)
  - Stephan Janosch
- :scales: International :wrench: Event
- **Context:** To provide RSEs around the world to connect and to share knowledges
- **Problem:** Some larger RSE societies are hosting annual conferences at the national level. RSE as a profession is less known, and RSEs are low in numbers in many other countries. Local chapters may not be able to organise conferences independently.
- **Idea for solution:** Due to the virus pandemic, SORSE (an international online conference) is organised this year. We may want to consider to organise international conferences in the future. This would foster closer connections of RSEs in different countries. It can also improve the profile of the entire RSE community. The conferences could be in-person and broadcast to attendees unable to travel due to time or budget constraints. 
- **Idea for a solution (2):** By working with the proposed group in pitch 2. An International Conference could be rotated around societies/associations each year with agreement from the international committee. Each association could then replace their national conference with an international one for a single year and everyone is therefore involved. It would avoid the issue of having to set up new structures/organizations to manage finance etc.
- **Idea for a solution (3)** By working with the proposed group in pitch 3 (web site), 5 (toolkit), 9 (journal), the conference proceedings could be published as papers, blogs, slides, etc. This could help promoting both the conference and the journal.
- :house: **Breakout room:** :arrow_right: See (2)
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/xwOZpU_oRPimMVKy_pvsAQ?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:**
- **Blog:** n/a

## (2) Regular Meeting of International RSE Leaders - (1) Annual International RSE Conference
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Ian Cosden, Paul Richmond
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):** 
    - Paul Richmond
    - Mateusz Kuzak, this sounds like *the RSE leaders community of practice*
    - David Yuan: Perhaps, one of the regular meeting can be at the same time and place as (1) Annual International RSE Conference?
    - Alejandra Gonzalez- (I'd like to help with this, but initially will work on international survey and playbook)
    - Anne Fouilloux
    - Stephan Druskat (*will try to share between this and (3), and elicit requirements from this group for (3)*)
    - Stephan Janosch (I will join a bit later, need to clarify something in #3 first)
- :scales: International :wrench: Event
- **Context:** Establish formal meetings and/or communication lines between the leadership of national RSE associations
- **Problem:** There are a number of RSE organizations (especially those existing and forming at the national level) but no formal mechanism to ensure that our various events do not clash. There is also no clear view on who should be running international branded events and a formal group could help with this. In addition each of the associations are often stuck with the same challenges and struggles. We would all benefit from a forum to formally meet to ensure cohesion between associations and more informally to meet and share experiences and knowldege, brainstorm solutions together, and connect with others in similar situations. 
   - DSK: note that the different national and other organizations (e.g. Society)don't currently have a defined relationship. It would be great if this could be addressed.
   - More of a sidenote: I'd like to see the potential relationship of this new group (?) with ReSA addressed, as their will be some overlap I assume.
- **Idea for solution:** We could have a regular online meeting (frequency tbd) where we can get together, plan, share recent updates and struggles. It could be something of a support group or an international steering/planning committee.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(2) Group 2 + 1`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** #intl-rse-breakout-2-org-leaders-meeting
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/e5-r02a8Qs-ZgHKiTGFBfg?both
- :link: **Other links:** https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lYe_N1R4b4I4lDhjofnuSf70fhlZ-31dHDbUGcxdSNU/edit
- **Outcome:** A scheduled meeting, agenda, topics, attendee list (and criteria for joining/invitation), website for contact and advertising, etc. 
- **Blog:** tba

## (3) researchsoftware.org: Home of the Intl RSE community
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Martin Thomas Horsch, Stephan Druskat
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):**  
    - Alys Brett (can give input but I'm joining 11/12)
    - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran (I'd like to help with this, but initially will work on international survey and playbook)
    - Neil Chue Hong
    - Radovan Bast (will join 11/12 but would like to help with website work making orgs/efforts more visible)
    - Alexander Botzki
    - David Yuan: link to national RSE sites so that everyone can easily find each other? BvW: this is what it currently does
    - Martin Thomas Horsch -> suggestion: Let us develop this single entry point into a marketplace or "router to contacts" though which we can advertise our services
    - Ben van Werkhoven: I made most of the current website, I dont have a lot of time to maintain it, but now I can fix small things or add new features. If the website gets an overhaul, I cannot commit to learning a new framework, so someone else would need to take over maintenance. To me the most important thing would be to make the website more useful by producing and publishing more content through the website. (in group 8).
    - Stephan Druskat: I'm half-convinced that I could be taking over maintenance for the site from Ben, perhaps with another person (and thanks, Ben, for all of your work!). I'd also like to stay with a simple technological solution (Jekyll as is is fine with me, but perhaps switch to another template, perhaps reuse the one we use in SORSE (and will use in de-RSE)). I also would like to see more content, or a different organization of content, and a lot of automation (for, e.g., events). I'd be happy to also dip into (1 + 2), (8 + 4), (12), and other groups to elicit their requirements for a refurbished website. I'd also like to solve the governance issue for this site (cf (2)), and perhaps domain ownership. I'd also like to see internationalization (which is hard, but we can perhaps draft help from other groups at least for languages).
- :scales: International :wrench: Website
- **Context:** Provide a single entry point to the International RSE community
- **Problem:** The international RSE community doesn't yet have a good single point of contact/list of resources, especially for non-English-speaking audiences.
- **Idea for solution:** We could freshen up the current researchsoftware.org page to include more resources for international people to get started with their own RSE initiative. This would also help increase the visibility for RSE internationally, especially if we internationalized it in different languages.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(3) Group 3`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/2z__rAEBR8S9iV1Wv9a9UQ?both
- :link: **Other links:** https://researchsoftware.org, https://github.com/RSE-leaders/researchsoftware.org (Git repository holding the site's sources)
- **Outcome:** A website providing points of contact, resources and other helpful features that help people get started with their own RSE initiative.
    ACB suggestions: think about what should live at a shared level and how to make it very easy to maintain without dedicated effort, eg syndicating blog posts or twitter feeds from national orgs, a crowdourced international RSE map?
- **Description of use cases** (draft): http://home.bawue.de/~horsch/pdt/material/rse-use-case-description.pdf
- **Blog:** https://researchsoftware.org/2020/11/03/single-entry-point-and-marketplace-for-the-RSE-community-RSE-profile-map.html

## Shared materials on how to set up and run an RSE group - now in (8)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Simon Hettrick
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6 main, but many more can contribute ideas):** 
    - David Yuan (eager to learn from this pitch)
    - Mohammad Mirkazemi 
    - Paul Richmond (*always happy to talk on how to set up a group*) 
    - Konstantin Stadler 
    - Alys Brett (interested in linking together various good resources but joining 11/12)
    - Thor Wikfeldt
    - Will Usher
    - Richard Darst (I will be doing this anyway)
    - Dan Katz (I would like to join this with 8)
    - Thomas Pronk (learn from this pitch)
    - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran 
- :scales: Group :wrench: Information
- **Context:** If we share our knowledge on setting up RSE groups, we can increase the number of new groups being set up
- **Problem:** Many RSE Group leaders are taking their first steps in management and leadership, in an academic environment that is often not welcoming to new ways of doing things, and they often have little resources to help. This deters many excellent RSEs from becoming a leader.
- **Idea for solution:** If we could distil the knowledge and experience of established RSE Group leaders, we could make it much easier for new groups to set up - and that's good for everyone RSEs and researchers too. This could be via a set of seminars (tying in with SORSE maybe?) or other materials.
- :house: **Breakout room:** :arrow_right: see (8)
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/grgOnnCXQGqqmWp1dvfZog?both
- :link: **Other links:** 
    -  https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.997904 (how IEDL is built)
    -  https://github.com/RSE-leaders/evidence-bank ()
    

- **Outcome:** Possibly, a set of materials that introduce a new leader to the realities of running a group. More likely, a schedule of RSE leaders who have agreed to talk about how their groups work, which will be videod and distributed (which may happen via SORSE).
    - WU: I'd like to help develop a template job description (which I need to do for KTH anyway)
    - ACB: There have been lots of useful things shared in the past but no ongoing way to sustain and collate them properly. This includes the RSE leaders evidence bank and survey from the last one of these workshops, case studies and talks from other events such as the UK Aspiring leaders workshop, and information gathered by Paul Richmond about group operating models. I'd suggest we relate this to 6 and 8 by including an extra set of questions in the main international RSE survey for people running RSE groups to get some structured data to combine with other shared materials. 
    - DSK: I feel like 8 and 13 are related to this, as focusing on institutional groups, but 6 to me is different, focusing on individuals
    - AB: researchsoftware.org - home of links to material? (see pitch 3)
- **Blog:** n/a

## (5) The Research Software Engineer's Toolkit
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Jeremy Cohen
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6 (core group), welcome contributions from anyone):** 
  - Radek Lonka
  - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran
  - Jonathan Frawley
  - Johan Philips (want to help but might be able to join the session at 3PM UTC)
  - David Perez-Suarez
  - Alexander Botzki
  - Stephan Druskat (*will be in (3), but hop in to see if this group has requirements for (3)*)
  - Nick May
- :scales: Individual :wrench: Information
- **Context:** Bring together general guidance and concrete information, with links to a wide variety of existing content, to help both new and existing RSEs find useful resources, develop their skills and produce better software!
- **Problem:** The rapid growth of RSE along with the enthusiasm of RSEs to contribute to their community and help others means that there is a vast array of research software information and resources out there. If you're new to the RSE field, where do you start? What's the right way to structure that new project? Who should you chat to find out more about X, Y or Z? How do you find others in your institution, region or country undertaking RSE work? How do you set up a community if one doesn't exist? So many questions, but the answers aren't always obvious!
- **Idea for solution:** The RSEToolkit is here to help! Look at the possibility of developing the existing placeholder [RSEToolkit](https://jcohen02.github.io/RSEToolkit/) as an open resource for the community. This resource would be populated with some core information about technologies, training and research-related aspects of RSE. It would then provide a space for linking to the vast amounts of existing RSE-related content already out there. The initial task is to review and develop the structure of the resource and identify and start developing the core content with a view to opening this up for the whole community to be able to contribute material.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(5) Group 5`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** [#rsetoolkit](https://ukrse.slack.com/archives/C01AM13K230)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/_7mWgpooQcSt4jefu4lfOg?both
- :link: **Other links:** [RSEToolkit](https://rsetoolkit.github.io); https://github.com/RSEToolkit/RSEToolkit.github.io
    - https://society-rse.org/resources-database/
- **Outcome:** A first iteration of a resource that the community can start to contribute material to; an approach for reviewing and maintaining the core content; a plan for future development of the resource, promotion and encouraging contributions.
- **Blog:** https://researchsoftware.org/2020/10/26/research-software-engineers-toolkit.html


## (6) The 2020 international RSE survey
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Simon Hettrick
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6, possibly changing over time):** 
    - Stephan Janosch (will join later,working in 3 mainly)
    - Tania Allard
    - Radek Lonka
    - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran (interested also in translating into Spanish - PR already ongoing!)
    - Ian Cosden (might need to be asynchronously)
    - Florencia D'Andrea (interested to include/promote LatAm representation in the Survey, I will be working in group 12)
    - Ben van Werkhoven (interested in running this in NL again, but also in group 8)
- :scales: International :wrench: Survey
- **Context:** Information is power. Information about RSEs is power for RSEs.
- **Problem:** The RSE community is constantly growing. If we are to support it, we need to keep our knowledge of the community up to date.
- **Idea for solution:** We ran a survey from 2016-2018. In 2018, we decided to run the survey every two years, because there were signs of survey fatigue. It's 2020, and it's time to run the survey. We want to ensure that our national associations are behind the survey, that we're recruiting new countries to join in, and that we have people signed up to translate the survey where appropriate.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(6) Group 6`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/PH8XGdlgQG-4c1fIqnqLRg?both
- :link: **Other links:** [Past surveys](https://www.software.ac.uk/blog/2018-03-12-what-do-we-know-about-rses-results-our-international-surveys)
- **Outcome:** Sign off from reps of the national associations, contacts to bring in new countries, volunteers to provide translations.
- **Blog:** tba

## (7) RSE "Profile" Map  --> (3)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Julia Damerow
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):** 
    - Stephan Janosch
    - Konstantin Stadler (but also in 2)
    - Erik van den Bergh
    - Frank Löffler (but wasn't there for first discussion)
    - Stephan Druskat (*will be in (3), but hop in to see if this group has requirements for (3)*)
    - Martin Thomas Horsch (same as Stephan, no. 3 and 7 are closely related)
    - *Add name here*
- :scales: Individual :wrench: Profile
- **Context:** We recently did a survey for DHTech and one thing I noted looking at the answers (and has come up before) is that not everyone in the community would call themselves RSE but they still are a part of our community (maybe even the bigger part?). Along these lines I often find that people who are in the RSE community might do very different things and have very different job descriptions. 
- **Problem:** Given the above, I find two main problems. On the one hand, as someone who is trying to plan webinars, workshops, blog posts, etc. I find it hard at times to find the "right" topic. The things that are obviously interesting to me, might not appeal to the majority of the community (or even just a part). On the other hand, I believe it is still often the case that the people who are responsible for hiring someone to do RSE work, might not really know what they are looking for (they might know what the end result should be, but not how to get there). This can make it hard to find the right person for the job.
- **Idea for solution:** I would like to develop some kind of "map" of different RSE profiles. From my experience, most RSE do many different things (in our survey ~60% did software engineering, 40% worked with server infrastructre, 36% did Data analysis and UX, and there were several more categories). I believe that a visual "aid" (in my head it's like a 2 dimensional array that could be used like a heat map for e.g. surveys, but it could be anything) that let's people locate themselves in the realm of RSE work, would a) help people recognize that they might belong to this community even if they feel they are the odd duck, but also b) help people, who are not part of the community but might want to collaborate with an RSE or want to hire one, figure out what skill set they should look for.
    - SJ: a possible starting point?: https://pad.gwdg.de/dKcY6QmRS4yCnKCFVOglng?edit
    - DSK: related to https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8588633 and https://openresearchsoftware.metajnl.com/articles/10.5334/jors.242/
 - :house: **Breakout room:** **`(7) Group 7`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/S0k3k4y1S1myB9PWv0ry4A?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:** Some kind of map as described above or at least a compilation of different types of RSE work that can be used as a basis for such map.
- **Blog:** https://researchsoftware.org/2020/11/03/single-entry-point-and-marketplace-for-the-RSE-community-RSE-profile-map.html

## (8) Survey existing RSE groups to understand how they are organized and how they fit their environment - (4) Shared materials on how to set up and run an RSE group
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Daniel S. Katz (Simon Hettrick)
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6 main, but many more can contribute ideas):** 
    - Will Usher (coordinator)
    - Paul Richmond (but also in session 2) 
    - Neil Chue Hong
    - Ben van Werkhoven
    - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran
    - Frank Löffler (but wasn't there for first discussion)
    - Thor Wikfeld
    - Erik van den Bergh
    - Julia Damerow
    - Konstantin Stadler
    - Stephan Druskat (*will be in (3), but hop in to see if this group has requirements for (3)*)
    - Mahmood Shad (*in 11 as well*)
    - Richard Darst
- :scales: Across groups :wrench: Survey, Information
- **Context:** If we share our knowledge on how RSE groups are:
    -  *organized*, we can understand what works and what doesn't, and perhaps tie this to the local context.
    -  *set up*, we can increase the number of new groups being set up
- **Problem:** There are lots of ways RSE groups can be set up, can take on work, can do that work, and can grow. Which of these ways are best and why?
Many RSE Group leaders are taking their first steps in management and leadership, in an academic environment that is often not welcoming to new ways of doing things, and they often have little resources to help. This deters many excellent RSEs from becoming a leader.
- **Idea for solution:** If we could survey existing groups, we might find a limited set of models for them, and then see what their leaders think works well and what doesn't, which might depend on local/national context. We could then make results public for others setting up new groups. This would somewhat be an expansion of https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.00732  We also have the survey from the 2018 meeting: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1RN0gZwJ1juInwVY7pX1vW7QMNEIpbzBl4q-SKrYOAMY/edit. If we could distil the knowledge and experience of established RSE Group leaders, we could make it much easier for new groups to set up - and that's good for everyone RSEs and researchers too. This could be via a set of seminars (tying in with SORSE maybe?) or other materials.

- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(8) Groups 8 + 4`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/NHHW1yBbRdC_AcHbuPvCpQ?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:** A survey and a resulting data set and analysis.
    - ACB comment:I made a suggestion under group 4 about how these could compliment each other and maybe attaching it to the main international survey. Also, a survey like this was run after the 1st Int RSE workshop, organised by Ian Cosden and Catherine Jones I think and could be picked up and adapted perhaps. 
    - DSK: yes, I would like to put this together with 4 (and maybe 13 as well?)
    - NCH: I'm interested in understanding what are the factors that affect the choice of group models, what the "life cycle stages" are, and how you can identify them and ensuring the data is reusable for secondary analysis 
- **Blog:** https://researchsoftware.org/2020/11/19/how-do-RSE-groups-work.html

## (9) Sharing RSE knowledge: a Journal of Research Software Engineering?
- :baseball: **Pitcher** Thibault Lestang
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):** *TL: I'll probably join another pitch, but feel free to get in touch if you have comments/ideas.*
  - DSK comment: maybe this could be done via [JORS](https://openresearchsoftware.metajnl.com)?
  - TL: Thanks. Here I'm thinking about the kind fof ouput that goes beyond software (i.e. methods and solutions to a particular class of RSE problems). My understanding is that JORS is about the software itself? 
  - DSK: No, JORS also allows papers about the field of research software. See http://doi.org/10.5334/jors.242 for example.  [JOSS](https://joss.theoj.org) is only software.
- :scales: International
- **Context**: Part of the output of any RSE's work is knowledge that could be valuable to a large number of other RSEs around the world. It is currently difficult to determine what kind of work other RSEs are doing.
- **Problem**: How to share Research Software Engineering knowledge? I see two options: speak at one of the RSE conference or SORSE, or write a blog post (if you have a blog). Traditionally, researchers share knowledge via journal papers, providing a bidirectional channel via which it is possible to both communicate your findings and stay up to date with what your colleagues are doing. In some way, Research Software Engineer is an active research field, and I believe RSEs would benefit from such a channel. Beyond enabling knowledge transfer, it would facilitate international collaboration, and provide a clear, real-time picture of the spectrum of Research Software Engineering, i.e. "who's doing what".
- **Idea for solution**: I'm afraid I have more questions to offer than I have solutions. A straightforward solution would be to replicate the journal-based model already in place for traditional academic research. However, this model might not be a great fit for the RSE community. In what sense? We could think of a central platform (or a collection of federated platforms) on which RSEs could publish their work. In what format? Another question is the one of trust: how do we trust the content of such a platform? Should it rely on peer review? If yes what would a reviewer look for, and what would be the incentives?
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(9) Group 9`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** (you can create one yourself)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/24DVPGdlSHKXgrfeX7XOow?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:** A channel *via* which RSEs can share Research Software Engineering knowledge, that is both accessible (input and output) and trusted.
- **Blog:** n/a

## (10) Unite Technicians in Behavioral Data Collection (joined with #4 and #8)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Thomas Pronk
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6):
- **Context:** Most RSE communities seem involved with data analysis, but there are a also a lot of technicians involved with (behavioral) data collection. In the UK, they are united in ATSiP, but outside of that, there aren't any established communities. The technical side of behavioral science is getting increasing attention, so this is an good time to put it on the map. See the [video](https://box.hu-berlin.de/d/9a5fedcd278f4b43a4ee/files/?p=/Thomas_Pronk.mp4).
- **Problem:** I'm mostly starting from scratch, how do you begin such a community?
- **Idea for solution:** What are your ideas for a solution of this problem?
    1.  Learn from ATSiP and RSE communities
    2.  Build an informal network
    3.  Establish a platform for dialogue.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(10) Group 10`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** 
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/-Dzy79ZySjeCOF5E4x767Q?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:** A nascent community
- **Blog:** n/a

## (11) Playbook for setting up regional or national RSE chapter (possible overlap with 12)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Mateusz Kuzak
- :handshake: **Participants (max. n):** If you are interested in collaborating, please add your name here (Pitcher can set a maximum, suggested: max. 6 including pitcher)
  - Radek Lonka
  - David Yuan
  - Ian Cosden (I'm very happy to provide my experiences with US-RSE and Princeton, but will be tied up with (2))
  - Mahmood Shad
  - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran 
  - Stephan Janosch (happy to provide de-RSE toolset used and more stuff, will be in a different group, so please drag me in, if I somehow don't appear)
  - Radovan Bast
  - Jeremy Cohen (*will be in (5) but also very interested in this*)
  - Stephan Druskat (*will be in (3), but hop in to see if this group has requirements for (3)*)
  - Thibault Lestang
- :scales: Regional/National
- **Context:** There are new RSE communities or national chapters being started. For examples the new addition is Belgian RSE. Some chapters learned a lot through the proces of settiong up thier communities and have a lot of experience by now. Some like the Netherlands, have been around for a while but are not that formalised on terms of gevernance structure or becoming fundations.
- **Problem:** Help and guide new or young RSE chapters on the non trivial issues like governance structure, community engagement, managing communications or establishing a non-profit organisation, running first national conference or hosting regular community meetups.
- **Idea for solution:** - Write a playbook for setting up an RSE chapter (local, national), based on the experience of groups like uk-RSE, US-RSE or de-RSE
- [From Zoom discussion] Now merged with 12 with the idea that new initiatives can define some topics and questions and we use that to shape what this help and information should look like. Possibly including case studies and lessons learned from the existing initiatives. The activity in 2 is the more formal collaboration between national associations and this would be the more informal mutual support for people starting and running initiatives (with some people involved in both)
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(11) Group 11`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** #intlrse-new-initiative-playbook (private - ask to be added in main workshop channel)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/2i83JX7VRsKCFOBy6SRaVQ?both
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:** Playbook/Guide on setting up an RSE chapter, collection of lessons learned from other chapters, could end up in (3)
- **Blog:** tba

## (12) New initiatives - Take your questions to numbers (2) and (11)
- :baseball: **Pitcher:** **up for grabs** (Stephan Druskat)
- :handshake: **Participants (max. 6 + n, should include leaders of established initiatives & people who want to found new natl. initiatives):** If you are interested in collaborating, please add your name here
    - Juanita Gomez
    - Florencia D'Andrea
    - Thomas Pronk
    - Peter van Heusden (with a focus on both systems engineers - i.e. people that whose output is computing systems and also RSEs)
    - Mateusz Kuzak, +1 for merge with 11
    - Stephan Druskat (*will be in (3), but hop in to see if this group has requirements for (3)*)
    - Tania Allard (after done with 6)
    - Ian Cosden (I'm very happy to provide my experiences with US-RSE and Princeton, but will be tied up with (2))
- :scales: Regional/National
- **Context:** The 1st Intl. RSE Leaders Workshop in 2018 helped initiate new national RSE initiatives. Where, if not here, is a great place to start further ones?
- **Problem:** There are still quite a number of countries/regions which don't have an RSE initiative to help push Research Software Engineering as a profession, and establish software as a first class citizen in research.
- **Idea for solution:** ~~There is a [blog post](https://researchsoftware.org/2018/04/18/how-to-setup.html) on the Intl RSE site which describes how national RSE initiatives/associations can be established. Let's take this blog post, go through it, and draw from it concrete ideas for participants who want to establish a new national or regional RSE initiative. We could "fact check" the existing blog post and potentially update it with new guidance on how to start initiatives for scenarios where the guidance may not be directly applicable.~~
- **Idea for solution 2** (from Zoom discussion): The output could be a set of questions / goals / ideas that the (potential) new initiatives have to be matched up with experience and examples from existing initiatives (11)


- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(12) Group 12 (merged with 11 and using breakout 11)`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** #intlrse-new-initiative-playbook (private - ask to be added in main workshop channel)
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/JuzfQG7JTaSn0yzMGGTQ0A?both
- :link: **Other links:** Blog post "How to set up a national RSE association": https://researchsoftware.org/2018/04/18/how-to-setup.html
- **Outcome:** *n* new national/regional RSE initiatives, a blog post/document detailing how the existing one helped, and what may have been missing. *And/or (from solution 2)* a set of questions that starting initatives may ask in order to develop a plan for setting up a new community.
- **Blog:** tba

## (13) Sustainability of RSE : Funding, Scaling, and building institutional support

- :baseball: **Pitcher:** Christine Rogers
- :handshake: **Participants :** 
    - Konstantin Stadler
    - Dan Katz (does this overlap with 8 and 4?)
    - Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran (interested in this topic, but will start contributing to survey and playbook)
- :scales: Multiple scales (individual, group, national and int'l)
- **Context:** Building a well supported RSE community means gaining recognition and funding from institutional/national orgs, and growing funding agency support. Limited-term grant cycles mean that coordination and leadership is required for longer-term sustainabilty planning for tools/infrastructure (not just focussing on whether code is written in a sustainable manner).
- **Problem:** Science can benefit greatly from robust and well supported RSEng. Viable career paths and recognition of all aspects of the software development lifecycle would help greatly. What are some best practices for building recognition and momentum, at institutional / regional/ national as well as transnational/field levels?  
- **Idea for solution:** Draw on the experience of UK/US RSE and other groups to list some best pratices and start describing a common framework for educating institutions/funders. These can include common impact assessment metrics,  "business" value propositions, and ways to participate in existing.
- [SH] The UK RSE started sharing job descriptions and desciptions of the different seniorities in groups via Github. It provides some useful insight into career progression.
- :house: **Breakout room:** **`(13) Group 13`**
- :speech_balloon: **Slack channel:** #intlrse2020-sustainability
- :open_book: **Group document link:** https://hackmd.io/tFALXolqT7OU_Ods4vtCFA
- :link: **Other links:**
- **Outcome:**

    -ACB comment: Could distinguish this from the two groups about RSE group operating models by focussing on influencing institutions and funding bodies perhaps?
    -- CR: :100: definitely
- **Blog:** n/a

---

# Collaborative Notes Day 3
![](https://i.imgur.com/ikXD81l.png)
![](https://i.imgur.com/IAbfW1T.png)
![](https://i.imgur.com/fr4YmKv.png)
![](https://i.imgur.com/bnPRJIz.png)
![](https://i.imgur.com/ILVWPYF.png)
![](https://i.imgur.com/tXp7Gv6.png)

# Some of the chat from Day 3 in text form to be found at the bottom of this document

---
<!-- # Collaborative Notes Day 3

## Feedback Day 3

--- -->

# Ideas bazaar

![Photo by Carlos Galarza on unsplash.com: https://unsplash.com/@cdgalarza](https://i.imgur.com/2K6IGxk.png)



:::info
If you have ideas for things you think would help the (international) Research Software Engineering community, but may not fit a collaborative session during the workshop, please note them here.
:::

> Example:  
> - :bulb: SD: Translate the contents of researchsoftware.org into other languages.

 
* RD: RSE work goes beyond formal groups, RSEs will stay distributed within the university community, too.  How can we take better advantage of them as a first-level interface to researchers?  Relates to (7)
 
---

# Participants

:::info
Please add yourself to this list if you participate in the workshop. Please **choose a unique acronym** (e.g., your initials) to make it easier to identify your contributions in this document. We suggest that you start all of your contributions with this acronym, but don't worry if you forget :wink:. You could optionally also sign up to hackmd.io, your changes in the document should then be visually highlighted.
:::

#### Participants by acronym (alphabetically)

> :bird: Twitter handle
> :cat: GitHub handle
> :speech_balloon: Slack handle (UK RSE Slack)
 
**Workshop organizers are marked with a top hat emoji:** :tophat:.

- **AB:** Alexander Botzki, BE RSE, alexander.botzki@vib.be, :bird: [@vibbioinfocore](https://twitter.com/vibbioinfocore), :cat: [@abotzki](https://github.com/abotzki), :speech_balloon: abotzki
- **ACB** Alys Brett, Society of RSE (UK)  :email: alys.brett@ukaea.uk, :bird:@alysbrett
- **AGB** Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran, SSI Fellow / Society of RSE member, :email: alejandra.gonzalez-beltran@stfc.ac.uk, :bird: [@alegonbel](https://twitter.com/alegonbel) :cat: [@agbeltran](https://github.com/agbeltran) :speech_balloon: @agbeltran
- :tophat: **annefou** Anne Fouilloux, Department of Geosciences, University of Oslo (Norway) :email: annefou@geo.uio.no :bird: @AnneFouilloux :cat: annefou 
- :tophat: **BvW:** Ben van Werkhoven, NL-RSE, b.vanwerkhoven@esciencecenter.nl, :bird: [@benvanwerkhoven](https://twitter.com/bvanwerkhoven), :cat: [@benvanwerkhoven](https://github.com/benvanwerkhoven), :speech_balloon: @benvanwerkhoven
- **CR:** Christine Rogers, Canada. christine.rogers@mcgill.ca :bird: @xtinerogers :cat: christinerogers :speech_ballon: @christinerogers
- **DPS** David Pérez-Suárez, SSI Fellow - Soc RSE member, :e-mail: d.perez-suarez@ucl.ac.uk, :bird: @dvdgc13, :cat: @dpshelio
- :tophat: **DSK:** Daniel S. Katz, US RSE, d.katz@ieee.org, :bird: @danielskatz, :cat: @danielskatz, :speech_balloon: danielskatz
- **EvdB** Erik van den Bergh, Wageningen University & research :email: erik.vandenbergh@wur.nl :cat: [@erikvdbergh](https://github.com/erikvdbergh)
- **FD:** Florencia D'Andrea, Argentina. florencia.dandrea@gmail.com, :bird: @cantoflor_87, :cat: @flor14
- **FL**: Frank Löffler, de-RSE, :email: frank.loeffler@uni-jena.de :cat: [@knarrff](https://github.com/knarrff), :speech_balloon: @knarf
- :tophat: **IC** Ian Cosden, US-RSE, :email: icosden@princeton.edu :bird: [@IanCosden](https://twitter.com/IanCosden) :cat: [@cosden](https://github.com/cosden) :speech_balloon: @IanCosden
- **JC:** Jeremy Cohen, UK RSE, :email: jeremy.cohen@imperial.ac.uk, :cat: [@jcohen02](https://github.com/jcohen02), :speech_balloon: @jcohen
- **JD** Julia Damerow, DHTech, jdamerow@asu.edu, :cat: [jdamerow](https://github.com/jdamerow) :speech_balloon: @jdamerow
- **JG:** Juanita Gomez, Colombia, jgomez@quansight.com, :bird: @juanitagomezr, :cat: [@juanis2112](https://github.com/juanis2112)
- **JP:** Johan Philips, Belgium, johan.philips@kuleuven.be
- **KST:** Konstantin Stadler, NTNU IndEcol Digital Lab, konstantin.stadler@ntnu.no :bird: [@kst_stadler](https://twitter.com/kst_stadler), :cat: [@konstantinstadler](https://github.com/konstantinstadler) (but  more on [gitlab, with the same handle](https://gitlab.com/konstantinstadler)), :speech_balloon: @kst
- **MM** Mohammad Mirkazemi, Helmholtz AI, :email: mohammad.mirkazemi@helmholtz-muenchen.de, :cat: [@Mirkazemi](https://github.com/Mirkazemi)
- **MSH** Mahmood M. Shad, Harvard RSE, :email: mohammadi_shad@harvard.edu :bird: [@mahmoodmsh](https://twitter.com/mahmoodmsh) :cat: [@mmshad](https://github.com/mmshad) :speech_balloon: @Mahmood_Shad
- **MTH** Martin T. Horsch, UKRI STFC, :email: martin.horsch@stfc.ac.uk, :cat: [@martinhorsch](https://github.com/martinhorsch)
- **NCH:** Neil Chue Hong, Software Sustainability Institute, mail: N.ChueHong@software.ac.uk :bird: [@npch](https://twitter.com/npch) :cat: [@npch](https://github.com/npch) :speech_balloon: @npch  
- **NM:** Nick May, [RSE-AUNZ](http://rse-aunz.org), :email: nmay@walroz.org, :cat: [nrmay](https://github.com/nrmay) :bird: [@eResEngineer](https://twitter.com/eResEngineer)
- **PR:** Paul Richmond, Society of RSE, p.richmond@society-rse.org, :cat: [@mondus](https://github.com/mondus), :speech_balloon: @mondus
- :tophat: **PVH** Peter van Heusden, RSSE Africa, :email: pvh@sanbi.ac.za, :bird: [@pvanheus](https://twitter.com/pvanheus), :cat: [pvanheus](https://github.com/pvanheus) :speech_balloon: @pvanheus
- :tophat: **RB** Radovan Bast, University of Tromsø, Nordic RSE, CodeRefinery, :email: radovan.bast@uit.no :cat: [@bast](https://github.com/bast) :bird: [@__radovan](https://twitter.com/__radovan)
- **RD** Richard Darst, Aalto University, Finland, :email: richard.darst@aalto.fi :cat: [@rkdarst](https://github.com/rkdarst), :speech_balloon: rkdarst
- **RL** Radek Lonka, NTNU IndEcol Digital Lab, :email: radek.lonka@ntnu.no :cat: [@radekl](https://gitlab.com/radekl), :speech_balloon: @radekl
- :tophat: **SJH** Simon Hettrick, Software Sustainability Institute, :email: s.hettrick@softare.ac.uk :bird: [@sjh5000](https://twitter.com/sjh5000) :cat: [@SimonHettrick](https://github.com/SimonHettrick) :speech_balloon: @sjhettrick
- :tophat: **SD:** Stephan Druskat, de-RSE, stephan.druskat@hu-berlin.de, :bird: [@stdruskat](https://twitter.com/stdruskat), :cat: [@sdruskat](https://github.com/sdruskat), :speech_balloon: @sdruskat, based in Germany
- **SJ** Stephan Janosch, de-RSE, :email: janosch@mpi-cbg.de, :brid:[StephanJanosch](https://twitter.com/StephanJanosch/)  :cat: [StephanJanosch](https://github.com/StephanJanosch), :speech_balloon: stephan.janosch
- **TL** Thibault Lestang, Oxford RSE, :email: thibault.lestang@cs.ox.ac.uk, :cat: [@tlestang](https://github.com/tlestang)
- **TA** Tania Allard, Microsoft, :email: taniar.allard@gmail.com :cat: [@trallard](https://github.com/trallard) :speech_balloon: [@ixek](https://twitter.com/ixek)
- **TP** Thomas Pronk, NL-RSE (PsychoPy, University of Nottingham, University of Amsterdam) :email: pronkthomas@gmail.com :cat: (https://github.com/tpronk) :speech_balloon: @pronkthomas
- **JF** Jonathan Frawley, ARC (University of Durham) :email: jonathan.frawley@durham.ac.uk [@jonathanfrawley](https://github.com/jonathanfrawley)
- **WU** Will Usher, KTH Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden :email: wusher@kth.se [:cat: @willu47](https://github.com/willu47) :bird: [@willu47](https://twitter.com/willu47)


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# Excerpts chat Day 3

- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 3:26:38 PM**
possible connection 5-2 there. “Everything is connected”
- **Christine Rogers, Ms... To Everyone 3:27:54 PM**
Great presentation, Alex and Jeremy - I’d love to see a section on resources for how to plan/design for open-sourcing your software, data sharing, and tools for Open Science, to build the cross-chatter across communities.
- **Alys Brett To Everyone 3:28:30 PM**
Ania Brown (one of the Society of RSE trustees) has looked into possibilities for crowd-sourcing & sharing RSE resources (possibilities of Figshare/Zenodo collections etc). At present there is an initial collection on the website: https://society-rse.org/resources-database/.
- **Christine Rogers, Ms... To Everyone 3:28:32 PM**
Open formats and data standards too :)
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 3:29:42 PM**
/hand
- **Ian Cosden To Everyone 3:30:20 PM**
This is great! We just started a project (last month) in the US (it’s NSF funded so support is limit to US participants) to develop open source RSE training material. https://intersect-training.github.io/. I see some overlap and would be great not to duplicate efforts.
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 3:32:28 PM**
The Turing Way is a good case study for how to do this well - it takes a lot of community management / facilitation but the reward is the many contributors willing to engage.
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 3:33:30 PM**
We do have a little time buffer to use up, so I suggest to move on to Group (6) (Survey) at :35.
Then: 15 mins. break at :50 :).
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 3:35:32 PM**
+1 to credit and attribution for contributions
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 3:36:19 PM**
Simon’s sends his apologies.
(Caring responsibilities)
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 3:37:18 PM**
when do we continue?
did not hear that
- **Ben van Werkhoven To Everyone 3:37:28 PM**
yeah I missed as well
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 3:37:32 PM**
We continue at 13:50 UTC.
- **Ben van Werkhoven To Everyone 3:37:37 PM**
ah ok
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 3:37:47 PM**
(That's just under 13 mins.)
Grab some water during the break :)
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 3:38:29 PM**
I learned written communication is king: https://snir.dev/blog/remote-async-communication/
next slide screen share?
do we see the wrong screen?
- **Alys Brett To Everyone 3:59:12 PM**
I have belatedly found the notes from the breakout session at the last workshop on motivating and running RSE groups that was behind the evidence bank: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MlntxTiA1bvSfGDtWG-PtRaB8nwzJpURcsMVTMSDweA/edit# 
Obviously only a small part was realised in the evidence bank (mostly job descriptions) but the list of types of info/resource that would be useful for various purposes might be of interest
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 4:02:53 PM**
Aside question - is it a zoom configuration enabling or not saving the chat? It doesn’t seem enabled but it would be useful as there are so many interesting links!
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:04:01 PM**
Alejandra, I think this may be a setting in the uni's "instance". I've just tried myself, and if I can't get it to work I'll copy&paste bit by bit before I sign off :)
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 4:04:21 PM**
@Frank: Audio is good now!
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 4:04:34 PM**
Sure, thanks - I’ll do the same… but much easier was clicking a button! ;-)
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:04:40 PM**
Agree :)
Lots of crowd-sourced SE papers work like this: tag bugs, become co-author. Good idea.
- **Daniel S Katz To Everyone 4:10:04 PM**
FYI, I think that if the zoom meeting is set to "participants can't save the chat", you also cannot copy from the chat at all
- **Christine Rogers, Ms... To Everyone 4:11:06 PM**
Copy seems to be disabled as well, unfortunately.
Perhaps the organizers can make the transcript available?
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:12:55 PM**
Will do in some way (screenshots if nothing else works)
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 4:13:51 PM**
Maybe Stephan can enable chat export on the fly as Host
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:14:08 PM**
Cannot unfortunately, setting's locked by the uni.
Goes in the lessons learned :)
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 4:17:31 PM**
certainly highlighting that "from nothing" thing Mateusz mentioned - and finding that others in this meeting where in similar positions - helped me a lot :)
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 4:17:36 PM**
I put fictional names on the personas I wrote… but I agree it might be good to have contacts
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 4:19:38 PM**
chat screenshots in main document at https://hackmd.io/qILzC6zmTIy86wfUcqP3HQ?view#Collaborative-Notes-Day-3
unfortunately hackmd.io hosts images on imgur
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:21:09 PM**
(Not just you ;))
- **William Usher To Everyone 4:31:12 PM**
+1 for google docs
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 4:33:57 PM**
Advent calendar?
- **Stephan Druskat - de... To Everyone 4:35:05 PM**
I like the idea of bringing it to SORSE!
- **Mateusz he/him NL-RS... To Everyone 4:35:06 PM**
+1 for connecting to SORSE
- **Ian Cosden To Everyone 4:35:41 PM**
+1 for SORSE especially for those that are looking for more crowd source contributions
- **Nick May To Everyone 4:39:28 PM**
What about a list of active international projects (with project outlines, contacts and links) on researchsoftware.org. And to stay on the active list the contacts will need to show progress over a set period.
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 4:40:10 PM**
interesting idea Nick
- **Daniel S Katz To Everyone 4:42:16 PM**
https://jlesc.github.io is somewhat similar to Nick's idea
formal projects approved by a steering committee
meetings every 6 months that report on progress
steering committee makes sure projects are active, and assembles progress report annually
projects are in https://jlesc.github.io/projects/
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 4:47:32 PM**
+1 for https://jlesc.github.io/projects/
- **Alex Botzki, BE To Everyone 4:48:23 PM**
Sorry, I have to leave for 5min (some installations happening) and come back then. 
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 4:55:16 PM**
Sorry, just git kicked out of my own Zoom call ...
- **Christine Rogers, Ms... To Everyone 5:00:33 PM**
Nice to meet you all - I have another meeting but looking forward to keeping momentum building on Slack etc.
- **Gonzalez Beltran, Al... To Everyone 5:05:27 PM**
I’m afraid I also have to leave (school pick up and childcare!) - hoping to continue discussions on slack/documents/etc
Thank you to the organisers and all!
- **Mateusz he/him NL-RS... To Everyone 5:08:23 PM**
Big thanks to the organisers 🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏🙌👏
- **Claire Wyatt To Everyone 5:08:35 PM**
Well done Stephan!
- **Radovan Bast To Everyone 5:08:40 PM**
+100
- **Richard Darst To Everyone 5:08:47 PM**
thanks to everyone!
- **Jonathan Frawley To Everyone 5:08:55 PM**
Thanks everyone!
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 5:09:07 PM**
Thank you!
- **Julia Lessios-Damero... To Everyone 5:09:09 PM**
Thanks! It was a great workshop!
- **Nick May To Everyone 5:09:14 PM**
Thanks to the organizers, and all participants.
- **Thomas Pronk (NL, no... To Everyone 5:09:15 PM**
It was indeed, thanks!
- **Erik van den Bergh To Everyone 5:09:20 PM**
Thanks to the organisers, learned a lot
- **Jeremy Cohen To Everyone 5:09:23 PM**
Thanks all for a great workshop.
- **Mahmood M. Shad To Everyone 5:09:26 PM**
thank you all, it was a great workshop.
- **Horsch, Martin (STFC... To Everyone 5:09:49 PM**
Thank you all!
- **Mateusz he/him NL-RS... To Everyone 5:09:50 PM**
and thank you to everyone in the workshop :)
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:10:27 PM**
:) Thank you to Stephan for really leading this
- **Konstantin Stadler To Everyone 5:10:43 PM**
Thank you all, and Stephan in particular. Great to get to know you
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:11:42 PM**
Thanks everyone! This officially concludes the workshop, but please feel free to stick around, and let me know if you need breakout rooms.
- **Mateusz he/him NL-RS... To Everyone 5:12:36 PM**
+1 alternating but agree with Peter, hard to replace the in person meeting
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 5:12:42 PM**
This is the third online conference I’ve been in this month - it’s tiring in a different way from meeting in person.
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:13:03 PM**
absolutely agree re: difficulty in attending conferences...
- **Mateusz he/him NL-RS... To Everyone 5:14:09 PM**
agree with Dan about hybrid
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:14:14 PM**
+1
- **Richard Darst To Everyone 5:16:00 PM**
exactly, for online stuff I don't suspend other work as much as I should... I think that's one of the biggest differences that makes it more tiring
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:19:40 PM**
Neither is HackMD I think ;)
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:20:03 PM**
+1 to that Stephan
- **Radovan Bast To Everyone 5:20:03 PM**
great summary, exactly same feel here
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:20:36 PM**
I have an email from Mateusz from about 6 years ago that I never got around to replying to :) :) 
(sorry)
- **Richard Darst To Everyone 5:21:03 PM**
we do too much stuff, at least I do.  my supervisor once said "if you have too much work to do, just don't do some of it"
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:21:49 PM**
in practice stuff ends up not being done. inevitably. its just a question of what and when
- **Nick May To Everyone 5:22:11 PM**
1:20 am here so I'm going to head off. Thanks everyone for all the discussion.
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:22:30 PM**
thanks for joining at that horrid time Nick!
I'd kind of vote for 2022 (one every 2 years)
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:23:36 PM**
Indeed! Thanks Nick for joining.
- **Erik van den Bergh To Everyone 5:26:11 PM**
Unfortunately have to leave due to caring responsibilities, thanks all! work is ongoing over slack / Hackmd
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:27:30 PM**
I think the overlap is a little larger, perhaps 50/50?
- **Alys Brett To Everyone 5:31:52 PM**
Annual event that is shorter but more open? Part of SORSE? "state of the RSE globe" short updates, Q&A and/or networking opportunity for newer people to make connections etc? 
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:32:16 PM**
yeah I like that idea Alys
I'd also like to call out Neil's contribution - I thought that talk was very useful, also the related content from SORSE
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:33:33 PM**
pretty-meeting-THROWN-FLOWER
https://gather.town/ykNaUSlmMMWg5kc0/intl-rse-leaders
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:34:03 PM**
agree. 
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:35:10 PM**
Also the Playbook I think has some focus on inclusivity?
- **Neil Chue Hong (he/h... To Everyone 5:35:26 PM**
It might be useful foe each group to reflect on whether the things they’re developing / recommending take into account equity, diversity and inclusion, and also as a whole there’s agreement to do some things which can help the community as a whole.
- **Ian Cosden To Everyone 5:36:32 PM**
I have to run. If people are still around I will pop by gather.town later. Thanks so much to everyone. It’s been a pleasure!
- **Stephan Janosch To Everyone 5:37:23 PM**
Do we have the link to Neil’s slides? I Did not save them
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:37:58 PM**
Yes, they're DOI'd. I'll look it up.
- **Daniel S Katz To Everyone 5:38:16 PM**
https://t.co/NyjwOr3XMV?amp=1
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:38:20 PM**
https://t.co/NyjwOr3XMV?amp=1
- **Daniel S Katz To Everyone 5:38:25 PM**
sorry, that's the twiter link to the DOI...
DOI itself is https://doi.org/10.6084/m9.figshare.12955094.v4
- **Jeremy Cohen To Everyone 5:38:56 PM**
I need to leave now. Many thanks all and thanks especially to Stephan for all the hard work organising the workshop.
- **Stephan Druskat To Everyone 5:39:06 PM**
Thanks Jeremy!
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:40:01 PM**
worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3QRI7hM9nY&feature=youtu.be
has some very practical approaches
(albeit from an academic, assessed-on-teaching-and-publications point of view)
one of the practical things is of course mentorship... 
so need to keep that in mind in our organising
but yeah also need to head off
- **Daniel S Katz To Everyone 5:42:27 PM**
next is OCR :)
- **Peter van Heusden To Everyone 5:42:35 PM**
Thank you everyone!! 
- **Alex Botzki, BE To Everyone 5:43:10 PM**
Thank you to everyone! 