---
# System prepended metadata

title: 'Current-see Playground session #12 (23.06.22)'

---

# Current-see Playground session #12 (23.06.22)
**Participants:** Dil Green, Jakub Lanc, Hedayat Abedijoo, John Waters
**Recording:**



## Agenda / topic proposals
*Please feel free to add your suggestions before the next session.*
- Dil: Pattern Language as an thinking framework for the current-see design space? Conceptualizing a PL tool?
- 

Dil
    PL attraction. Structure CH.A. invented - lots of clues in the preface.
    Structure, way the data is structures, pattern is actually developed.
    How those mapped onto whatever the domain.
    Rather sophisticated. Any domain conceptual structures important.
    Natural systems built of live feedback loops.
    Next clock tick, computes its own future, unfolds.
    Consists of its feedback loops.
    Human systems dont work like that.
    David Graeber, David Weingrow - book "".
        Attacked that agriculture was the end of human freedom.
        How have we got stuck?
    Part of the answer: we buid social infrastructures, develop those over time, institutions around them because complex. Electricity grid, internet, water system, banking system...
        Too complex just to arise.
        They need experts to keep them going. Cause clunky to natural systems.
        Failed feedback loops, broken linkages, wasted redundancies.
    Buildings are dead, no feedback loops. Unlike a tree - an active builder responded to, member of the forrest.
    It takes humans to bring to life.
    All human institutions like.
    Weak, non-resilient, vulnerable to breakages cause no feedback loops.
    PL: "We"
        15th century Italian town.
    But how? How to make human designs more life-like?
    Not an attempt to systematize anything.
    Tactical way of documenting stuff.
    That systematizes the landscape.
    Not system of rigorous rules. "Everytime a bridge, it will do that."
    Framework you can documents anything.
    Some philosophical, some practical, some nerdy, technical, some emotional.
    Tactical kludge. Trying to find a pattern reductive enough to be cognizable by a human, 3-4 working parts, we can act
    Feel your way into them rather than manage as an externality. Know more or less alive.
    Chops the world up, but, structure forcing you to remember wider broader context relating to

KB: Humens vs. nature vs. humans as nature "cosmology"?

JW: Example how language divides us. Many different meanings, interpretations depending on the context. Sometimes we see an error where there isn't one.
Trevor Hilder - learning network modality. That's what it is.
How many times has the pattern of PL itself was rediscovered, renamed in other natural languages?
Worried about anything putting constraints, where we attempt to put constraints around what's going to happen. Humans will find solutions. Solutions tend to repeat over and over again.
Great to map out with some kind of language. As long as attractors, strengths, we can go with the most basic Permaculture principles, from which we can construct chains of arguments about any kind of action, "you're veering off". Despite religion etc.
I immediately see the limitations to reaching to prats we're not even aware of.
Immense collective imagination of humans.

PK: Language itself a constraint. One of emergent patterns, tragic: both enabling - like language here, but also limitations. Goes for all constraints, systems. Enabling, constraining. That tragedy never goes away. Practicality of selecting something that's useful, allowing for construction.

PK: Nature of PL as a system. Separation between that or Promise Theory or other systems. Interesting field by itself - our literacy on this variety of systems in that area, limited as a culture. If I look at games.
Chess - system is a totality forming this package, module where each part connecting to each other. Similar to traditional theoretic model.
Difference between that and PL?
Ground in between.
Systems more like floating modules, almost like this hovering clound of modules with conditions and triggers between themselves. Different kinds of systems than chess.
Other tools.
Existence of a Rule... setting as an ecosystem.
Can have paradigm changing the rules themselves, creating relations as in ecosystems.
Own rules, mutations.
Fertile ground, looking in between - constellations of totality vs. only floating modules.
Culturally, still in early stages of populating.

JE: Constraints creating freedom AND limitation.
Rules of engagement allowing Emergence.
Constraint of life - we're all more equidistant to the center of the Earth. Not in n-dimensional void.
We're constrained to the surface of a sphere. Forces of gravity. Etc.
Novel chemicals, life-forms, multi-cellular organisms.

JE: Commons Market Makets, Bonding Curves - a form of economic constraints. Mutual credit - constraint, conserved accounting mechanism.
Constraint, conservation law allowing to move from FIAT, tokens to... (unsustainable way of creating sustainable economies, ecosystems).
Whole design pattern. 
Design pattern enforcing those constraints, then allowing emergence within those constraints.

SM: Community currencies. Digital marketplaces. Digital marketplace networks. Bancor. Precursors to AMMs.
Provides a facility, novel utility to Systems designers toolkit.
Cyberphysical technological ecosystems for some Purpose.
vs. Place-based frame - tangibility, close-to-home-iness, #RealValue connection - making it more manageable mentally. But, the principles hold.
Hard to generate clarity. Once having a sense of directionality, core Purposes of the systems.
"Margin call" movie - living the crash.
Mortgage back securities crashing markets.
...

Interchain Foundation Earth Program
Establishing more interoperability.
More practical framework.

LocalsApproach.org
Participatory budgeting groups in Lisbon.
Allowing EU funds to get channelled.
Facilitating participative groups allocating money.
Manual... engagement based on projects in Neighborhoods.
Cards. How to utilize in some kind of game patern.
Scenarios. Purpose, specific kind of desired impact.
Stringing together to a story towards the impact.
Team with a cooler stuff wins.
More sophisticated gamification approach, deck of cards.

DG: Huge amount of real experience, knowledge, skill.
Pull threads out from this.
Most common thread: issue around levels of abstraction.
Games, gamification <-> JW's "any systematization likely to trap us at some level"
Language series of traps empowering in certain domains.
PL is not a mapping tool. It's a meta-mapping tool.
Different than the Holochain Meta-maps project.
Doesn't produce ontologies. Doesn't produce ... list of tips and tricks - it isn't.
    That's reproducting the ???
    Wise democracy project, essentially this though.
    Not PL that works.
Whole range of stuff to do with ontologies, semantics, composable aspects... whether code, social, legal structures. All of those a level closer to real action than PL is.
PL is also a layer closer to JW's approach - "always building everything as quantum physics", slight strawman.
"What is the fundamental reality of what's going on here? Let's build with that."
Building a bridge with quantum physics, eh. Steel beams, cranes, gives you a bridge.
Far from theoretical efficiency, far from the piece of melted unity, but actuall gets done and serves a purpose.
Whole spectrum of stuff "bridge done" <-> "how QF would get us across the river".
All of the stages between, useful.
PL just one way station on that spectrum... one color on that spectrum.
One that seems to be missing.

A lot of pragmatists: "Let's build bridge", then people "Bridge building destroying env, let's be more careful, systemically", still, closer to "bridge, but different way".
PL: "What are the forces at work when people want to build a bridge", parametric descriptors to resolving those forces that tend to produce bridges fitting well into a whole ecosystem of other physical inhabitable by human scale stuff.

DG:Real thing PL does: try and build a map of patterns having different scopes of quality, character.
Starts right at the Emergent Outcomes level. Towns - Buildings - Construction.
Towns - emergent.

The central section of PL: Buildings. About building those human institutions which are different from Termite nests, cause depend on concepts. Termites don't.
Steel girds. International standards, organizational stuff, allowing to rely it doesn't collapse.
Clunky, inefficient, reifying very strongly... beams, girders etc.
Steel industry churns those out. Non-standard stuff, 2x more money spent.
Stuck by those institutions.
About architecture.
Types of buildings we build, as life-like as possible, to unstuck.

Construction - list of tips and tricks supporting this life-like.
Doable things at the bottom.
As a network of ideas, you're able to connect from simple things like "window trims", all the way to the "magic of the city".

Trying to place PL along the spectrum of tooling
Not an Ontology.

PL can we now, must we now step back from those ontologies.
Assumptions around standard institutional framings.
Look at those one ste

G.B.Shaw: Problem of communication, you're ??? place
Interpretation of PL: 

JW: Money. 
Conflating with "exchange of value". Destructive.
Worried in efforts into solutions replicating problems of legal tender.
Need to move away from commodity money.
To money used as a measure.
Not enough effort into "pure measure" money.

DG: Dethroning money as we know it.
Prepared to get down and dirty with people completely enmeshed in that world.
Try and craft opportunities, offers to them which invisibly contain feedback loops which incentivize them to behave in ways gradually emphasizing the exchange of value, deemphasize the number.
Tactics might be different.

Presenting the river with a better way to see, it can flow ... better route. Changes rivers behaviour,. Upward spirals? More wise.

Metasystemic mirror.

PK: Highlight. If dethroning money. Rather, series of many acts growing a different culture.
Less revolution, more like ecosystemic migration.
Alternative stuffs. New systematic pastures to inhabit.

PK: Practically. Relating to Scott's saying. 
Cards are semipractical model.
Card as a pattern.
All its evolution - intricate nexus point of systems.
Systems what's in a cards, cards.
Lot of system approaches useful.
Card-like thing.
Card - inherently a brain in a kind of conceptual sense.
Offer offers participation in a larger system.
Inherent grammar. Particular for the card.
Also across the card.
Diagrammatic
Part is a frame. Sophisticated system around the card. 
A deck, system of its own.
Multiple decks, different aspects.
Hand. In-process unit with own... logic in, out in addition to the move logic going to the table.
Beyond the deck, multiple decks.
Cards. Multiple games. Beyond the game.
Addressing different network-like structure. Deck to hand to moves to cards on the table, constellations.
Can operate practically easily.
Systematically highly complx, interesting in Pattern like perspective.

Patriotism is not enough. But neither is anything else. Science is not enough, religion is not enough, art is not enough, politics and economics are not enough, nor is love, nor is duty, nor is action however disinterested, nor, however sublime, is contemplation. Nothing short of everything will really do.' 

DG: Concerned about the games framing. Games evolved to build practice spaces with significant variety reduction vs. reality, so they could learn for example to get better at intuitive estimation of probabilities. Strategy games to think moves ahead.
The ubiquitous identifier of game - rule-bound, reduced variety space.
Which is easier than life.
Games are subset of life.
Would be life. Could not be designed by a human.

Same definition could be used for theoretical model.
Variety reduction is... in order to empower ourselves. Within this context, we can ignore 99 percent of universe, can build the bridge.
The problem is "immersive games!", still massively reductive.
Complex enough, wide open enough to spend a lot of time in them.
AI people start training AIs, ability to play open world games as something saying "AI getting human!"
In these reductive spaces, stop looking at how reductive and systematized those are.
"Let's turn more life into a game so we can design it."

PK: Semi-agnostic to ... 
Start to incorporate systematic pallete to other fields.
Migrating those approaches, as instruments, mechanics.
For potentially anything, including games.

Card analysis.
Marriage of systemic complexity of use... useful.
Games solving systemic problems as theory.
Have a kind of artistic bed approach towards that.
Results system-wise not considered towards their larger possibilities.
40-50 games challenging their ... ???
Enhancing, increasing variety.
Agree of not making into conventional game paradigm. What is our systemic library, culturally?
Take stuff in games to other uses.

D&D like games - vehicles for sociality. Platform allowing people of certain kinds to interact much more humanely than without that platform, freedom from certain inhibitions. Powerful social connectors.

Gamification as it's known and used, cynical reduction from 72-79 developments in Role playing, D&D. Became socialized in cynical capitalistic way.

DG: Workification games. Click farming games. Charlie Chaplin... now you do voluntarily.

DG: My best def of human progress: Number of available metaphysics to the average member of the culture.
Before Freud came, it was essentially impossible in any culture to talk about what was going on inside their heads.
Batshit crazy made up bollocks pseudoscience. The language: Ego, Id, inferiority complex... may be possible for people to start having conversations they were unable to had.
    Trauma.
Steam engine is just ifference, not progress.

Game is a metaphysical space.
What matters about this metaphysics... people can be competent with.
Language allows us to swap metaphysics mid-sentence. Most jokes comparing, crashing different metaphysics.
We love to see those crash in such ugly, surprising, beautiful way.
Mental clunking of gears.

The issue with game framings - almost all of them not really conducive to allowing other metaphysics into that space.
"I'm confining to this metaphysics."
Real communication about being able to slip and slide across metaphysics.

PK: particular cultural paradigm extended upon 40 years, possibility of multiple metaphysics... pattern of inherent differences. RPG games - ...
System creating sinking points - where character stands.

There is a field challenging precisaly those monomythic structures of metaphyisc as in chess.
RPG frame more an enabler than constricting.
Constantly supervened upon by people ematizing a small subset of what goes on in those games, turning into commercial.

JW: Never heard metaphysics in this time. Closer to abstract mental model.
Ontology also different than 40 years ago.
Tremendous scope for grasping the wrong end of the stick here.
Term Variety, how we use?
Understood hjow? Colloquial sense or other?

DG: Pull threads together.
Preface: Poetry of the language.
"Caution. This language, like English can be a medium for prose and poetry. Difference not t... same language differently. ... In a poem, meaning far more dense. Sentence, density of interlocking meanings ... whole. Building ... density ... profound."
    Q: Trans-contextuality? Warm data?
    
SM: Circular economics playbook for local developers, governments...
How to start operating at the systems level, circular economies.
Crucial use case. Rich future. Organizing a lot of te thinking.

Q: PL in a gamey-way?
Progress based on priorities present in those locales.
Map out minimum viable structure approach... to global regeneration
Strategic enquiry
Not formulaic, predetermined, but room for emergence.
Theory of Change?

Miro board around those.

DG: Circular economy people mostly thinking in terms of circular material flows.
If not a financial flow in an opposite flow, don't have an economy.
"Ah, that's why all subsidies, kickstart grants, then dies."
Not thinking about an economy, but just the material side of things.
Accounting for what...

Circular economy. Nice delimitation.
Q: Cards as an additional way to use PL?
Playbook Circular economy?
    Express those things.
    
DG: Engaging domain.
Playbook like stuff, recurring conditions to document.
SST also? Shared body of stuff relating to real world, phenomena, domain, evidence, personas.
See what's possible with different framings to express those. Useful, composavle, what layer in the spectrum they occupy. Compatible.

Bring a scenario, case. Otherwise float about.


Q: http://machinations.io troublesome?


- Placing PL on a "map", spectrum of tooling




    


## Misc

PK: Common palette between orgs and economies, organizations.
DG: Currency work - 

DG: No theory in architecture. Lots of post rationalizing what people do in the first place.
Set of praxis to work in the real world.

KB: Hack humanity. Hackathons as a service. Before ideation and creativity.
Body as a brain taxi :) 
Metaphors we live by. Problem, challenge, possibility statement?



## Resources
Pattern Language introduction (Dil Green) - http://patternlanguage.institute
https://www.zand.games/talk-in-bike 
https://www.zand.games/conscious-nfts


# Current-see Playground session #12 (09.06.22)
**Participants:** Dil Green, Guillem Cordoba, Hedayat Abedijoo, Viktor Zaunders, John Waters, Eric Harris-Braun, Matthew Slater, Thomas Macalpine, Robert Zelník, Jakub Lanc
**Recording:** https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NbwiunNSF77GVW6XtaimVr9jVsEo3jdk


## Agenda / topic proposals
*Please feel free to add your suggestions before the next session.*
- Guillem: Mutual credit libraries for Holochain
- Guillem: "We" hApp
- Hedayat: Game design patterns for practicing



## Misc

### Guillem
Mutual Credit building blocks - enable creation of tailored apps, customizable perameters (e.g. credit limits etc.)
Iterate with communities doing some experiments.

Investors / co-vestors? - if they stop believing the projects, can trade those credits.
    Q: "Secondary market"?
    [[Joe Brewer]] - fundraising for land
        Pre-purchase of some tangible asset
        
EHB: Paper scrip. Didn't go same time. Don't want all people redeeming all the bread at the first day. Redeeming over time - important affordance over time.

EHB: Mutual credit - base case. Can implement everything on top of it. Add different logic.
It's the general form.
    
MS: If not framed as ??? ... redeemability of vouchers.
EHB: To make sure everything not redeemed instantly.
    Guarantees?
    Operating costs. Investment costs.
    Can't cover operating costs... solves.

DG: Danger of tech for economic context without having an economic model.
    Patterns - "[Structure follows social spaces](http://www.iwritewordsgood.com/apl/patterns/apl205.htm)".
    In a building you don't go for efficient structure going into the way of social spaces.
    Need to design social spaces, then go and search for structures that support those.
    E.g.: 7x8 sheets of plywood, but they needed 4x8.
    [UC] Scheme in Nagpur India. Half-way Deli dollars & Mutual credit. Spare capacity for high-street vendors and customers
    Key thing in economic analysis: 2 facts.
        1) What is their spare capacity? Need to assess. In this case - assessed by peers - at a hosted evening. "I could do X", peers say "yeah, perhaps a bit less". External validation.
        Goes to the "how far negative" you can go.
        Multipliers (???)
        2) What their gross margin is? Not the profit, but the uptake they make on their fixed overheads. Paid rent, fixed staff costs... but not bought the stocks neccessarily.
            As long as the token not sold taking below gross margin, the problem Eric mentioned, doesn't happen.
    Before you build those primitives, need real people design.
    The issue is: Building those real world models - took us 8 months to arrive at a model worth developing, another 3-4 months building the detailed understanding - "Interest to shops, consumers, ..."
    
Q: hREA?

EHB: Grammatics. Pattern language - the grammar. You test out the particular grammatics, part of speech, when done econo modelling, you can assemble. Verbs, nouns, predicates.
    To have the grammatics we can use when we have the economic analysis.
REA - nice ontology, some level of grammatics, staying away from currency. Economic events.
    Planning phase, coordinateion.
    Accounting phase.
    
JW: Agree entirely. Nervous - danger of making too many assumptions. We don't always follow our own advice. Important for people to create own currency types, money or not. Playing with those in safe space. Haven't seen much signs of that happening.

Economic model. Social space embedding.
https://www.complementarycurrency.org/ccLibrary/materials/local_currencies_catalysts.pdf 

JW: Any money type will co-evolve with the environment changes in which it influences. Therefore it is essential not to contrain the adaptive variety pool. 

MS: I want to point out that what Guillem described at the start only allowed one account to go negative. Therefore from a mutual credit accounting perspective, that would be a special case. 

EHB: XGLF - generalized grammatics, set of accounts. Doesn't work for composability

Patterns 3 tiers
    Emergent. Things you can prepare conditions for those to happen. Things you'd like to see in the build env.
    Middle - buildings. Projects taking us to the limits of our capacity to coordinate across our capacities across space, time...
    ?? - doable things. Go and hang a door. Paint the wall.
    Can't build economy. Can buiild economy institutions. 
    Sort of... in some band, requirign significant amount of coord.
    
    
All in the service of the emergent outcomes we'd like to appear. We have to examine why and when and how ... that might possibly emerge.

JW: Anything having no target no attractors, is a real problem. NESTS - [[Viable Systems Model]].
Policy and ethos trickled down thru levels of governance. Very soft, gentle, light touch nudging.
Either using the system, ... network of carrots, rather than sticks. Layer of resource bargains. If you work with us, will have a chance to... ???
Minimal set of global policies we all can agree on.
We want fair shares. Basic [[Permaculture]] principles, trickling down increasingly rich sets of policies. Machine making govt redundant eventually :)

EHB: What do we want to build, experiment?
    Hedayat.
    Inspiring me.

Frame: Pattern Language defining layers: Emergent. Buildable. Doable. 
EHM: Something new going to show up in there.
Doable - capacity to build grammatic capacities. Those lead to emergence.
    Meta. Expanding the affordances.
    Language - emerged, wasn't build. Buildable. 4th cathegory.
    
[[Reserve account]].

EHB: TikTok - sentinel of social media. Incredibly powerful. Grammatic capacity they didn't realize they were building. Grammatic capacity to build social memes. Instant absorbtion of this capability, started to work with it.
GCs now just emerging now. Can make consciously. XGLF.

Next place, small domain? "Where" happ, tool. "Where are we together" as a tool, afordances.
SoftDAO stuff around governance. Physical, idea, emotional spaces etc.

Pekko's POV - affordances to spin up new org, governance... game design perspective.

HA: We need to practice all those abstractions.
Game. Practice a pattern. Pattern of economy in a game.
Conscious NFT.
Zand Games. Bike game.

Hedayat - experiment, answer questions?
Design the game together, with the community?
On purpose unfinished


Points of synergy? hREA? hHow?
Q: Feedback loop of agreement to redeem. Assess surplus?
    Describe the (micro)narratives, processes between agents?
    "How" protocol? Where hApp? SoftDAO? Then XGLF?
    
Implied social agreements. Feedback loops? ... Experiment

Q: Strategy CZ 2030 documents - VSM governance principles?
    
DG: Tooling for: doable things?

MS: Richer than accounting system?
JW: Understanding about structures, currencies for purposes. Set of accounts sharing common characteristics.
Q: "Game board"?
Q: Governance. Oikonomos?
Q: SoftDAO? Monitoring. Enforcement? Arbitration? Reliable statements?


Q: Requirements like...
    Backing? Commitments?
    Language, patterns?
    



# Current-see Playground session #11 (12.05.22)
Participants: Pablo, Pekko

## Agenda / topic proposals
*Please feel free to add your suggestions before the next session.*
- University subversive initiatives
- Spatial Web - new ??? protocol

## Misc
Crypto Commons Gathering - End of August / September
Jakub: Buy flight tickets to Finland

### Pekko - Spatial Web protocol
Unified addressable protocol
Reminds of SPACE
Q: vs. SSI?
Pekko - to design a game structure for the foundation.
Semantic webc webc web
ssing all those things (web, physical reality etc.), how does that all play.
Contains structures relating to identity.
Structuring and architecture of the space of physical reality it can correspond, correlate with.
Large presence of rights like structures.
Q: SST?
All space conceived, perceived, operated.
Semantic semiotic system to create a sense of sense, allowing to correspond with senses.
Semantically-semiotically designable system.
Roughly - hyperspace incorporating the "real" world, physical spaces.

University logos
More is more

Need for Para-structures, para-economies, para-socialities, para-organizations
    Shared between much of the students
Universities - a good soil towards such things.
Resources, time, energy, youth, enthusiasm :) 
Finding a form of sharing those structures, developing different approaches, ways of sharing those.
Ways of collaborating.
More University logos better for getting funding.
Can be para-site, but rather para-llel. Tapping into Uni structures.

Always good to keep identity of its own, anchor.
    Connecting, part of X.
    Identity turns the connection a little bit less ephemeral.
Good identity?
    Thematics of para-structures.
    Distributed Academia - large horizon
        All the way to questions around systems of generating, producting knowledge - state of corruption, failure.
        All the way to the ground level - operative space of your general student being in university now? Serving the needs?
        Operative space can relate to economic, knowledge, sharing possibilities.
    This could be feeding the identity.
    Start to talk to people about this.
    Tool to lessen ephemerality, make it more concrete.
    Very early structuring.
    How does it start to operate as a very small being? Tadpole vs. frog :)
    How to connect those cells, offer there?
    Could be brought to a level of proposal, that could be changed.
    Bot those questions on the working table.
    See as potentially existing.

        
Pablo: Bremen - caffe, struggling.
    Membership models?
    Relating to para-economic structures to sustain student activity.
    Teacher class - after graduation.
        Para-economical paradigms? :)
        Distributed Academia related questions.

Distributed Academia
    A bit cheesy name, but could work in some places :)
    Current paradigm - Web3. Flat, unimaginative way of imagining this process, but, has taken over.
    For reasons semi-unfathomable :)
    Q: How to use Web3 as one of the initial conceptual portals into the actually relevant and imaginative, more abstract topics?
    vs. Capital controlled academia in many countries.
    Value of creditation, heart of it.
    Alt structures starts from making much smaller things.
    How a certain structure works as a certain para-possibility for specific Uni. Versions.
    Pablo: In the realm of existing possibility. Just reputation and certiicates. Reputable group, institution, person, etc., certificates of attendance... 
        Already potential way towards decentralized curriculum. NFTs? SSI?
    Pekko: Multiple strategies towards the creditation area.
        Para-creditation. Already creditation capability in the uni. Para-structure could leech or benefit from that. How to build alt structures towards creditation area.
        Not neccessarily need authority.
        Structures of interest towards your expertise, participation. Wide palette.
    Radio, freedom in that.
    How do we move this freedom towards more network, between unis, but also...
    ...tech solution, social architecture that then comes to be shared by other operators, their own versions, sharing those.
        Separate from creditation.
        Para-org architecture.
        Q: Holochain "How" hApp as one implementation possibility?
            Agnostic. Paper, website etc.
    
Q: Longer-term, time-scale ways of inciting, sustaining participation? WKO?
    Grounded in the space, architecture of the uni, specific places (coffee, gallery, halls, etc.?)
    Gamification of various ways of participation, engagement?
    What are desired ones?
    
### Next steps
Identity related session
    Also, source of ideas at discussions at the UNIs
    Desired outcome now: an evolving draft.
Early structuring session
    WKO capabilities and enablements this can bring already?
        E.g.: You come here and see others are doing this, and you can ... also some sort of collaboration or agreement. Utilizing X, part of X...
        Enablements.
        Source some specific enablement examples?
        What is it about, related to the disciplines known by people?
            E.g.: "Radio" - WKO palette of systems of distribution, organization could be brought towards a, that could gather economy from different old and new sources (academic and others).
                Economy? Resources?
                Towards that you need design.
                    There's tools. E.g. Tech providing a Podcast, but can do sth. different.
                        How you can reframe, reconceive, reimagine what it enables?
                    E.g.: Sound NFTs. How could you potentially combine those with those podcast-like things? How can you combine that with social architecture of inviting interesting people with some kind of decision system, in itself gathering
                    In business language, aspect of it "Social media strategy".
                    Larger org and economic design questions at the heart of it.
                    Cannot be sliced into those cathegories.
                    Only business, funding, ser
        Show, open up the question of the crucial role of design.
    Pable: Radio in the Bremen. Venice Biennale 2018. Shows, collab with another Radio. Opened slots to play other radio's shows. Exchange slots in their programme. Network quality.
        Tech? 
    Take standard, like Uni course, deconstruct, find ways of reimagining.
    Design is needed. New space. 
    
Picking up the standards. Like, courses, and blowing it up. Alternate ways of structuring. Structural brainstorm. Good material. 
    E.g.: A course harvesting from interned. Teacher -> crawler. Etc. 

Challenge: non-student like J. wants to join.

Albania Radio!!
    
    
    
TODO: Ask the students about how they perceive. 
    
What could fit into a possible Uni course agenda?


Q: Vienna Uni, Jacob Hackel?


Jakub: OurVerse hackathon - share with AHM. Pekko?


# Current-see Playground session #10 (28.04.22)
Participants: Jakub Lanc, Pekko Koskinen, Pablo Ruano, John Waters
Recording: *[To be uploaded]*


## Last-time bridge
[...]

## Agenda / topic proposals

- Check-in
- SoftDAO s and Anhedonic signalling (VSM) in DAOs? (John Waters)
- Current-see platform at Jakub's Arts College in Brno (Jakub)
- [[Neighborhoods]] (Pablo)
- VSM & DAOs article from Michael Zargham
- Metasystemic Mirrors (John)
- Machinations.io & Token Engineering lecture (Jakub)
- Active Inference Lab / reading group (Jakub)


    

## Misc notes
JW: Basic forecasting over time series. Understand transience. Assign probabilitie in changes of va
Fundamental structures and deviations of policy.

J: Posible relations to Free Energy Principle, Active Inference reading group?

PK: Organization as a calibrating entity?

Initial mapping, Miro.
Methodology?

[[Neighborhoods]] moving from the paradigm of [[Reputation]].
    Towards Sensemaking, organizing, SoftDAOs etc.
    
[[Metasystemic mirror]]s??? - feedback loops that might be understood at any level of recursion, cultural... making visible the impact of decision making.
Cybernetics 
Policies of global governance, Earth Chart 20 years. World's Syntegration project for global governance.
Realtime information about impacts through the economy to provide feedback to purchasers within a supply chains about potential impacts of their decisions.
Presupposes information preserving high variety currency types.
    Working on the NESTS software.
    Mapping between spaces of different dimensionality to provide weighted measures that have meaning in terms of potential impacts - resourse depletion, pollution etc.
    vs. single scale not saying anything about damage being done.
Ideal economy - regulator mathicng resources to needs effectively upper bounds defined by climate capacity, lowe bound defined by human requirements.
Ashby-compliant curreny.
Filling in the internal detail between rings of Raowrt's Doughnuts.
Short on details about the insides.
Trying to prpoduce a little controbution to help in modelling approaches towards more compliete kind of economy
High variety currency types needed. Constraints on that need to be there.
In the moment - inconsistent, weak legal constraints that can be overturned.
Need genuine informational constraints for unconstrainable money...
Prototype of more complete economy that can model all the resources and needs and match those in least damaging ways, acceptable at a cultural level to a whichever community using it.
Holochain as a natural candidate.

PK: More lika paradigm vs. just a "system". A paradigmatic take. Personal interest.
Mirror-like operators.
What kind of reflectors for the process?
Design area we put too little emphasis on.
History of Oiconmeh - greek conception of economy.
    Combination, hybrid concept of Organization and Economy as a starting point.
    Post-Socratic times? Would be interesting - general concept used by Greeks everywhere.
    Starts from abundance, goes toward efficiency.
    Western conception - starts from scarcity, goes towards extraction.
To underline how differently things can be put, have strengths and weaknesses in terms of their expression.
Different emphasis.
Compare and contrast with John perhaps next time.
Sources of reflection beyond TXs overlooked.

PK: Working on [[Metaverse]] economies, consulting, designing.
Interesting because gre

Q: Mapping methodology, standards? Offers?
Q: Commons?

Making use of [[Promise Theory]] to explain, provide some backing to this idea.
Justify non-coercive atomic level drivers.


Pablo: Developing an ontology for different components of Neighborhoods - naming, scope of the names. A lot of sensemaking strategies through subjective forms of assigning value through responses - likes, claps, emojis, ratings etc.
Ontology for those and how they impact visibility of resources in user interfaces.
How can you sense in a group what's relevant, how can translate to UI through different paradigms of visibility.

PK: What are the sources of economy?
    More general than asset or resource.
    Can be a device or thing people produce, but also people's skills, kind of a labour source. Also interests, motivations, leading to producting a plan for that, leads for people joining, this itself a potential source.
    To take into account how large the economic pool can be.
    Good to be aware of.
    Speaking towards the size of the economy, vs. limiting beforehad.
Before TXs, we need motivations.

What can we input to the economy?
    Credits? Money from the school? Outside?
    School-controlled currencies that could help starting these economic flows.
    
    
Q: Difference vs. Business model canvas, Lean methodologies, processes?



## Resources
VSM & DAOs article - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4077358 
Pekko's "Economics of art and the discourse of value" talk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axlPAxQtyBU
SoftDAOs (Eric) - https://docs.google.com/document/d/14u5LriUy5Kb0rjHoldYGLUg-zMAZn9REwvhWovDRbO0/edit?ouid=107714167585323066734&usp=docs_home&ths=true 
Machinations.io & Token Engineering lecture - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNGvEWzGEQM
Active Inference reading group - https://coda.io/@active-inference-lab/actinflab-onboarding

## Next time proposals
- Contrasting and comparing John's [[Metasystemic mirrors]] paradigm with Pekko's approach.
- Continuing with the Arts Colleague mapping / designing ideation and experimentation, with methodological meta-comments and learning.


# Current-see Playground session #09 (31.03.22)
Participants: Jakub Lanc, Pekko Koskinen, Pablo Ruano, Thomas MacAlpine, Matthew Slater
Recording link: *[To be uploaded]*

*Please feel free to add your notes or comments, either during or after the session.*

## Agenda / topic proposals
- Check-in
- Last time bridge
- ECSA book
- Current-see playground 3D tool, MVP expressions
- DAO conversation
    - Relations to Coops and other forms of organization?
- Credit commons mechanism


## Check-in

**Pekko**
        REA -> Promise Theory explorations
        Promise Theory - one perspective towards orgs
        
**Pablo**
    Neighborhoods - expanding beyond reputation to sensemaking
    XORG developments - cards as a modular system for making sense of the work
    
**Thomas**
Turn based game code. Gamified DAO?
ReFi space exploration

## Last time bridge
PK: Roaming, drifting into different topics.



## Misc notes
Don't forget to record

**Matslats**
Struggling with the DAO conversation. Jeff Emmett.
Difficult to extract financial dynamics that are recognized. 
Assumption of liquidity, token prices going up.
Confusing ways words are being used in the space. People seem to be understanding each other, but really, do they?
John Ellison - ReFi DAO - coming to Austria, talking on the stage
    
**Jakub**
Impressions on ECSA's book draft:
Staking + Credit + Collateral
Spiriling upwards
Performances instead of commodities

**Pekko**
ECSA book - political issue. Not ECSA as a whole, but Bryan ??, "an" economical model, not "the".
The Performance - a kind of a trap - hard to define Performance. Can find easy cases, but trying to make a general economy based on Performances - troublesome.
Need easy measuring. But often subjective - need to take into account, difficult.
Pushing those all into one system, problems.

DAO topic continuation?
What does it mean? What area does it try to define? What is needed? With DAO, beyond DAO?
Acute topic.

DAO points
Wider potential for implementing of this kind of structures opening up. Also implementation potential of organisations, economics as well. Programmable medium.
Whether coins, tokens, NFTs or DAOS - googoo-gaga baby-noises. Learning something, baby is making those noises in order to learn to speak. We're in this stage.
Neccessary transitional concepts.
Good to be aware they're transitional and that they'll be surpassed.
DAO - started as mis-alignment - e.g.: Ethereum whitepaper definition of a DAO, a form that none of current orgs follow.
    E.g.: Condition - structure where you'd have to communicate in forms understandable by algorithms.

When people latch upon the concept, they latch onto something they'd have - organization, using those programmable media. Concept twisted from the original meaning.
Definition

Anything organization-like and programmed, is a DAO.
The concept fuzzy, means fairly little by itself.
We're currently living in that symptom.

Goal: To find one concept to capture organizational paradigm in the expressive range of programming?
    Difficult or even unuseful, absurd. Collapsing everything into one form.
    We hav corporations, coops, nations, etc. etc.
    Different forms, different paradigms, different purposes. Different for a reason.
    Wide palettes of how we organize ourselves.
    
Flaw in thinking DAO "is" the organization.
But, it's more organizational instrument - a tool of an organization rather than organization itself.
    Website. Nobody would think organization IS the website, although mostly functioning through the website.
    DAO - similar case, similar operational position as a website for an organization.
    But, around it - meetings, Discord, Zoom, Telegram and other channels, media of communication.
    But we're in a different realm what DAOs "are" conceptually.
    
Future: Distributions between different instruments cooperating.

Matt Slater
    Pattern Language
        How could express in image, using icons, like Chinese symbols?
    Identifying some primitives -> Icons -> Arranged?
    Talked to Dil Green.
        "Yeah, you're developing Pattern Language!"
    Dil wants to develop PG for everything, including currencies.
    Network diagram of primitives and how they might relate to each other.

PT wasn't explicitly trying to develop those primitives. Express financial relations in a different light.
Comes down to different kinds of contracts.

    
Pablo - visual language, translation to SVG standard for example. Use looping, animations - representing life-cycle of currencies. Demurrage, permanence, transactionality etc.
Abstracted to a system of iconography and movement, could be very powerful.

PK: Pattern Language - potentially applicable, but PL means many things. Development of how it's been applied, practical use - more like an ingredient than a self-sufficient language. Not an exhaustive, limited set of legos. It's more ingredient-like. See a pattern, a starting point, then modifications. Gives a direction, useful structures. That was in architecture.
    

Liechtenstein DAO legislation - how does it (not) reflect this perspective? Could it be saved? :))

Matthew's primitive list:
[Digraph visual](http://dreampuf.github.io/GraphvizOnline/ )
digraph G {
"Money-as-we-know-it" -> "guarantee of fungibility"
"guarantee of fungibility" -> "securitisation"
"monopoly issuance" -> "issuance (backing)"
"securitisation" -> "issuance (backing)"
"debt guarantee" -> "debt"
"valuation by decree" -> "guarantee of fungibility"
"multiple issuers" -> "issuance (backing)"
"Money-as-we-know-it" -> "leverage"
"guarantee of fungibility" -> "debt guarantee"
"guarantee of fungibility" -> "multiple issuers"
"Money-as-we-know-it" -> "clearing"
"clearing" -> "settlement (payment)"
"settlement (payment)" -> "debt"
"Market" -> "settlement (payment)"
"Market" -> "most liquid asset"
"most liquid asset" -> "settlement (payment)"
"most liquid asset" -> "serial subjective exchange"
"multilateral swap" -> "split the barter"
"split the barter" -> "swop"
"Market" -> "serial subjective exchange"
"serial subjective exchange" -> "subjective exchange"
"subjective exchange" -> "split the barter"
"leverage" -> "issuance (backing)"
"issuance" }

A sort of hierarchy first, but started developing loops quickly - more difficult.

Most fundamental concepts:
Debt - more towards credit theory of money
Swap - more towards commodity like currencies 

Pekko: I'd call this approach Pattern modelling vs. Pettern Language, as PL started with specifics.
Each of this parts here - general area, but in every case needs details - what kinds of issuance?
As a culture we're missing some of these terms.
PL starting with specifics, particulars - e.g. shape of the building. Different from starting from the general.

Q: Phenomenon-based? Bottom-up modelling vs. top-down modelling? Middle-up?

MS: Pattern - all types of issuers, but same thing.
PK: Lacking particulars.
E.g.: Leverage. What percentage? WKO structure?

In the PL - "this wall configuration already there combined like this", more like lego block particularities.

Partial combinations? Particular area and a Pattern model for that.

## Summary
- Deconstruction of the DAO concept and its (mis)use by Pekko
- Pattern Language as a way to semi-formalize, visualize, identify primitives and relations?
- Possible relationship between Promise Theory and Pattern Language as a way of expressing those systems?
- Icons and animations set, perhaps SVG compatible?
- Matthew's Pattern Language articulation attempt - GraphViz format
- Pattern Language vs. Pattern Modelling

## Next time proposals
- Matthew can expand on his concepts, model. Discussion from there.
- Generally think of WKO modelling aproaches we could utilize.
    - Which could be used for that, the CPG 3D thingy?
- SVG-like / compatible primitives - minimal set to start playing with - grounding this part of the exploration in the visual experimentation?
- Bring in a very simple here-and-now example to ground the bottom-up exploration in?
    - E.g.: When invoking the concepts of "issuance", "risk" etc.
    - Play with possible metaphors / visual expressions already during the discussion?

