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## 2019 Nov 11

### McSwitchy at 8:16 PM
1) check out the community around chastilock - there seems to be a vibrant group of dommes who like the space and put a lot of time into running sessions. https://discord.gg/4DVPBH

2) getdare forums have a massive treasure trove of both interesting kinky "dares" aka tasks, some of which were part of online D/s games that lasted months, as well as many posts about chastity: 
- https://www.getdare.com/bbs/tags.php?tag=chastity
- https://www.getdare.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=50

3) thechaste.com implemented community review of verification photos a while back and then took tentative steps towards "secondary photo verifications" + "verification instructions" which seemed like it was heading towards general task management - but to my knowledge it hasn't taken off.


Make requests and play Truth or Dare here on the site!
I would say first of all that it would be fruitful to participate in either chastikey or getdare or both communities while researching this question. They both have great communities and vibrant communities, especially that dommes enjoy, seem to be one of the keys
thechaste verification settings

I have been slowly picking up steam & collaborators (who had already started) on a "smart" diy chastity add-on kit, to bring internet enabled remote zapping and tracking to devices. 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/644680434248187904/644707774604771338/Screen_Shot_2019-11-14_at_5.15.23_PM.png
	![image alt](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/644680434248187904/644707774604771338/Screen_Shot_2019-11-14_at_5.15.23_PM.png)

I think one of the biggest differentiators of holdingchastity would be to integrate with apps for mobile phones and wireless addons like the one I'm working on. So right now that would mean brainstorming / ideating what the best parts of those services/add-ons may  be and then implementing the site and the key community features in anticipation of those ideas
that was convoluted so to say it another way; I think a big opportunity is to help envision how connected devices could enable much more exciting keyholding & chastity experiences, then working in parallel to integrate the community site w/ the upcoming kits
more immediately, I think the process of soliciting and implementing "tasks" for the chastity battles and individual sessions could provide a really tight community-driven implement-test-measure-repeat loop for empirically discovering what interactions the users enjoy the most / are the most sticky
I've noticed you have been pretty vague about how the tasks are going to work and have not really provided a "call to action" designed to involve the userbase in task ideation / creation / administration etc. And that's totally understandable given how recently you launched the new site.

But you also have an immediate opportunity to to use the the development process for the task system as a way to drive community engagement and collect user feedback / preferences.

I'd love to brainstorm this part with you in more detail since I find it interesting in and of itself. So please do reach out to me anytime to brainstorm strategies or specific implementation techniques if you like.

I can't tell how far along you are with the system or how specific a vision you have for it, so I'm just going to throw some suggestions out there.
for the purpose of this conversation, since I'm making suggestions, I'm going to say "we", but don't read it as some kind of implicit move on my part to infiltrate or imply we are working together - its just for conceptual convenience
 
### McSwitchyToday at 8:52 PM
questions:

- how could we use the userbase to crowdsource tasks and then test them out? 
- one way would be to establish a "wild-west" or "alpha" section for the task system that is explicitly experimental and hand-driven
- users + devs chat about what would be cool tasks to try that week or every two weeks
- they get added to the experimental session system
- with the understanding that the users who proposed the tasks will test them out in a session
- if the tasks seem hard to automate, that's ok, just automate them by hand personally or w/ help of small trusted site team
- q: what metrics would demonstrate tasks / experiments that were worth developing further?


dommes:
- I think a lot of the members of online chastity KH sites would love to have a partner or significant other who was their KH in real life
- they turn to the sites b/c they don't have one
- none of the sites provide a particularly satisfying experience of D/s in my opinion
- some users may just want the remote lock technology so they can run their own session
- but I think a lot more would love some kind of domme
- since it's early days for the userbase, experimenting with integrating a real Domme into some of the sessions could be a great way to drive interest and growth, as well as a way to test the idea itself
- I'm suggesting finding a professional domme who likes remote chastity play and would be willing to run experiments on the site part time, probably in exchange for compensation 
- create some kind of challenge that justifies limiting user access to the domme
   - viral marketing perhaps? you win points for every day a user you signed up stays locked up and verified?
   - or participation in surveys / feedback chats with devs (hey these could be great chastity tasks!)
  - or a user just has to pay or win enough money to get access ($100 / month or $10/day or something)
- users who want to eligible for the domme experience have to fill out an exhaustive survey - helps both the domme dom them effectively and generates intelligence for site strategy
- I highly recommend you check out MistressAlyona's system in the Chastikey community. Go skim her discord subchat and in particular the pinned messages. https://discord.gg/qh5RAA
- she has a TON of engagement, so much so that she is running her own mini site now
- maybe she is interested in expanding her portfolio?
- especially if the new site offers some features developed with her feedback?


### HoldingChastity at 6:05 PM: 

You given me so much information

I will do as you've recommended with regard to researching the communities you've outlined above. Some of them are totally new to me, so I'm definitely grateful for that information.

With regard to integrating with apps for mobile phone. I'm definitely open to doing that and contributing. In fact, I recently purchased an Arduino board and started experimenting. I have tons of ideas that I think can contribute towards achieving that end-goal that you and your collaborators are partaking in. When you are ready for those ideas, please let me know and I'll start spewing. If there is any way that you guys would like to leverage my site to do some basic testing or proof of concept work, then let me know and I can help get you guys setup.


[6:05 PM] HoldingChastity: With regard to tasks and everything you've mentioned about tasks, you are 100% right. Especially the part about the immediate opportunity for engaging user participation. I've actually been doing some of that via personal messages on the site, but feel it can be done better and will be implementing a channel on the server to let that conversation run free and permit for voting. In terms of short-term tasks, that is up in the air at the moment. Tasks can be easy or hard to implement coding wise, but since the release it's been all about community outreach, troubleshooting, and fixing identified bugs. Next will be to implement some low hanging fruit fruit tasks. Journal Entries, video verification, and enhancing the Keyholder Dashboard to allow them to insert specific tasks of their own. 

In the long-term.... you've just touched upon some of the things that are being considered (if not directly, a variation of): 
- There is an intent to turn it into a bit of a bazaar for chastity
- One in which perhaps the community votes on a task of the day that is sort of a wild-card for those that have it show up on their scheduled tasks
- Similarly, a voting system that might allow the public at large to vote on a chaste's task for the next day by using a link that allows for the public to vote.
- The assistance of a Domme is already in the works actually, with intent of creating content that can be made available for public viewing. Turning it into a bit of a channel. 
- We are designing sessions in the form of a syllabus of sorts. Starting off easy and progressing to harder ones of longer duration after. All to be supervised by a real Domme.


[6:10 PM] HoldingChastity: This all goes into the touchy subject for the community of montization. It is an end-goal. It's not the intent to lock-down any of the free services currently being offered. But some Domme related services would have to come at a premium to say the least.

---

[8:00 PM] McSwitchy: cool, just updated the doc w/ your comments

[8:00 PM] McSwitchy: the Domme + syllabus sounds really cool

[8:01 PM] McSwitchy: I think offering premium services on a freemium platform is a great fit. 
It's different than a lot of kinky sites for sure, which are completely paywalled.

[8:03 PM] McSwitchy: So, 

1) are you the sole developer? Is the "we" you refer to you and a partner / significant other / team?

2) what's the site's tech stack?

3) how's user growth going?  Want to talk about ways of increasing it?

[8:03 PM] McSwitchy: meantime, you asked about the DIY device I am working on

[8:07 PM] McSwitchy: 1've got two related two related projects:

1) perfect a cage design that is secure & uses a PA piercing, but that also doesn't interfere with foreskin. I'm uncircumcised and although I have a PA, I can't use the devices that have the PA pin coming up from under the glans because it compresses my foreskin and keeps it from extending, eventually causing circulation problems.

[8:07 PM] McSwitchy: wearing it right now. just need to make a few minor revisions to perfect the fit then I'm going to have it printed in titanium

[8:09 PM] HoldingChastity: I do most of the dev. The we consists of another friends that does what he can. The site stack is php/html/js/SQL. The growth has been slow. The problem being keeping them engaged.

[8:11 PM] HoldingChastity: I just spent a few dollars on twitter to promote the new How It Works video and that has given some favorable results.

[8:17 PM] McSwitchy: 2nd project is a wearable electronic device about the size of the pavlok  (if you've seen it) or a box of matches, designed to 

- use bluetooth LE + phone or onboard wifi to stay in touch w/ cloud service
- like pavlok, it contains a simple electric shock circuit. probably not full-on tens pulses, more like wireless dog training collar 
- also contains accelerometer 
- and mounting points for it to be permanently attached to a chastity cage

the purpose is threefold:

Main goal is to close the weak point in all chastity devices i've tried - that after enough time locked up, theres a point where I can jack myself off in the cage if I try hard enough. It's not the greatest orgasm, but its still there, and potentially a secret

- accelerometer detects extended patterns of motion that look like "jacking off" or faster vibrations from a vibrator
- it logs these events to the cloud
- and also responds with shocks of increasing length

- secondly, the purpose is to detect unauthorized playing and log it

- and lastly, the device + web interface provides a super convenient way of applying punishments with the shocker

[8:26 PM] McSwitchy: the development path looks roughly like this:

I'm currently working on a "toy" hardware prototype to experiment with how to implement the features & components described below.

 Probably going to use:

- esprima chip or the new [arduino  33 BLE Sense](https://www.electronics-lab.com/arduino-nano-33-ble-sense/) (arduino sense board includes accelerometer amongst other cools sensors

- shock module from off-the-shelf cheap dog collar

- small lithium ion battery

- planning to "pot" everything in waterproof epoxy for simplicity

- shock module will apply negative reinforcement if it looses internet connection via phone or battery gets low

- don't have a plan yet for how to implement "bridge" mobile phone app or messaging protocol between device & cloud (MQTT?)

[8:30 PM] McSwitchy: But there are two existing projects that are related that I might end up collaborating with / using for parts of the implementation, both from the metafetish community (their discord chat server is awesome!) 

- metafetish is a community of kink hardware hackers & makers https://discord.gg/pzNseM
- DeviceWeb is a sibling community devoted to reverse engineering software APIs in existing sex toys and integrating them in a unified web-enabled control framework https://discord.gg/GGz7w22

I will try to use as much of the deviceweb stack as I can

and @Elims in MetaFetish has been working on a similar but more sophisticated wearable TENS unit that is based on the arduino 33 BLE. He and I have just started chatting about collaborating. I don't think he is far on the software/firmware side yet but he is close to having the first batch of devices made in china. So I am hoping in the end I can use his platform and just do software. But since its not ready yet, it makes sense for me to pursue a development implementation of the same basic features (zapper & connectivity & accelerometer)

[8:31 PM] HoldingChastity: Treat it like a Ring Doorbell. It connects to the wi-fi -> to an online broker (cloud) -> where the KH can then log into the broker for a dashboard with informatics and triggers (zapp).

[8:32 PM] McSwitchy: Oh lastly I've put a bit of work into researching how realistic it might be to reverse engineer the pavlok v2 such that its firmware could be replaced with my own while using it as the HW platform. Currently on the fence about it. I think it is a good plan if Elims doesn't come through, but it still makes sense to focus on making a demonstration prototype first with off-the-shelf parts

[8:33 PM] HoldingChastity: Do you code?

[8:34 PM] McSwitchy: that's a great idea and one I may start with. I'd like to skip the phone app for now. I just read that nordic labs is working on a next-gen direct bluetooth-to-internet bridge that would fit right in here.

[8:35 PM] McSwitchy: I've been working as a JS developer for the last few years. React, redux, mobx, some hyperledger distributed web stuff, that sort of thing. I can solder and write c if necessary and enjoy hardware. I have not worked with MQTT directly but it has come up at the margins as I have gotten more into event sourcing & serverless architectures

my approach to side projects like this that I am interested in is to pursue collaboration in a non-rivalrous, altruistic, and open manner. I would be glad to help however I can without being concerned about economic value flowing back to me. If it helps create real value for you, great! I say thats how collaborations often deepen :slight_smile:

[8:35 PM] HoldingChastity: Even if you built an app. The same rules are going to apply.

[8:38 PM] HoldingChastity: So you're familiar with node?

[8:38 PM] McSwitchy: In particular lately I have been working on a fairly complicated client-side app that does a lot of dynamic data validation based on run-time defined schemas; lots of research and experiments with various ways of building forms and other types of data inputs reactively based on user actions without reloading the page.

I keep thinking about it and how it might be useful somehow for a task management system.

but based on our convo, I actually think there should be like no tech stack at all for the challenges or the tasks (more than there is), and instead we should just manually verify the tasks status based on its textual spec and update the user records manually

[8:39 PM] McSwitchy: yep I love node.

[8:40 PM] HoldingChastity: https://www.npmjs.com/package/mqtt npm - mqtt - A library for the MQTT protocol

[8:41 PM] HoldingChastity: If you want to run your own MQTT broker, you can use Mosquitto or Mosca, and launch it. You can also use a test instance: test.mosquitto.org and test.mosca.io are both public.

[8:41 PM] McSwitchy: yeah I'm just reading the faq

[8:41 PM] McSwitchy: I really like the Event Sourcing pattern conceptually and am looking forward to a chance to use it. I think it would work well with MQTT

[8:41 PM] HoldingChastity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOqS8fhd6ck
YouTube
bitluni's lab
Easy MQTT Server Setup

[8:43 PM] McSwitchy: gotta 1) finish submitting a test pieces to shapeways for printing so I can measure their tolerances and 2) make the first version of the nano 33 BLE sense + shock collar integration. then its time for MQTT!

[8:44 PM] McSwitchy: but in the meantime I'd also enjoy helping out with the strategy and code for HC

[8:48 PM] McSwitchy: so it seems like, 

1) a plan is in motion to work with a Domme (awesome!)

2) HC needs 50-100 new members who are relatively active (so like 1000 signups) to form the core of the community. But not random members - the "earlyvangelist" type of self-motivated user-champion, the customer who already has the problem you are solving and has only got crappy solutions. they want it bad, they love your solution so much from the get go because even though its so incomplete its still better than their current solution

[8:52 PM] McSwitchy: I think HC is on the right track. I'm an earlyvangelist type for sure. (btw I learned about the site from your post on fetlife, I think in chastity engineers). So the current approach is working. But sounds like its still really early and its not clear with the 1-2 features might be that will really draw the early adopters. (but again being agile and running lots of little experiments with the domme interactions and the task challenges seems like solid strategies).

**[8:53 PM] McSwitchy: Ok I have a concrete suggestion for an experiment**

**[8:59 PM] McSwitchy: I would personally like to be able to propose a list of tasks that I would / could do if I was in a challenge session. What are the constraints on the scope and shape of a valid task? Lets not worry about it besides saying the task itself has to fit into three sentences and the instructions for validating that it was completed have to also fit in three sentences. All tasks have to be validatable by the existing submit-a-photo-to-the-community peer review system (or use any other validation tool you have already got like for the journal posts).**

**Anyway, I would really like to be able to propose my own custom list of tasks, and to see everyone else's, if they make them (so I can get inspiration). No other keyholding site does this so it would be a unique value of HC.**

**when a session start, tasks are selected randomly from my set and from the sites 'base' list of tasks, or something like that. Or anyone in a validated session that also predates the current user's can reorder the users upcoming tasks. a simple mechanism that creates uncertainty.**

[9:01 PM] McSwitchy: Tell me how to work on that with you and I'll help :slight_smile:

[9:03 PM] McSwitchy: (p.s. one last thing - theres a loophole currently that lets those of us in chastity sessions escape: we can create a second sock-puppet user account and request it to be our KH. Then from the KH dashboard we can release our main account. I think a simple fix would be no KH assignment while in a session without begging the site admins for an exception)