---
# System prepended metadata

title: Application Breakout Discussion
tags: [breakout]

---

---
tags: breakout
---

* Summary slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12F3OgUR7OugOahJqcmeYo6Sf-OS3RdEqv9RQlam1naE/edit#slide=id.g23de385e284_0_37

# Application Breakout Discussion
* Leslie
* Jan
* Dirk
* Harald
* Michael
* Jon
* Nitinder
* Henning

## Retrospective
### What has worked?
* e-mail
    * SMTP - successful
    * IMAP - declining 
    * some reliability issues (mailing lists, reverse checks)
* web
* calendar?
    * message format OK
    * synch and interop NOT OK
* Multimedia transport
    * WebRTC
    * DASH
* webpages
* SSH/SFTP 
* shared documents (Google Docs)
* software version control (git)
* payments (WeChat, Alipay, PayTM, ApplePay, GooglePay)

#### Infrastructure/Support
* ACME
* DNS (enabler/infrastructure)


### What hasn't?
* interopearable chat
    * Jabber is open to spams
* identity (enabler)
* directory services
    * resources
    * people
    * orgs
        * whois?
* social media
    * graph management
    * media 
* document editing
    * Overleaf, Google docs, Office
* Screen share
* Payments
    * WeChat, Venmo, Apple Pay, Google Pay, PayTM

#### Why adoption failed?
* ops: nobody wants to run their own servers
    * control over name
* bad actors
    * applications need to handle bad actors after reaching critical mass.
* add functions
    * viewpoint of Zoom adding features quickly
    * Why Microsoft Teams didnt work?
* function intersection (Jabber)
    * feature group compilant version
        * similar to 3GPP releases


* ownership
* sustainabiility
* business / operations
* standards requiring disclosure of confidential biz data
* Why not more cooperative operators?
    * law and municipality

* APIs - Can we do better than Berkley sockets?
    * TAPS - IETF




### What technically works but isnt in use
* chat
* RSS feeds (technically OK)
* Netnews

### What maybe works?
* calendar
* SIP

## Reflective
### Goals
* to ease (multiple) app development
* portability & composition
    * dynamicity
    * data export
* decentralization (if desired)
* attach new functionality to existing services (to own or others)
* better group communication
* easy app building

### Interoperability aspects
* Identifiers
* Message content
* Signalling
* Exchange PSync
* (Security)
* (Ownership/centralization)
* event notification
* consensus protocols
* storage
* event buses & queuing 

* Interoperability motivators
    * How can we motivate operators (like Teams, Zoom, etc.) to inter-operate?
    * Unless and until there is a significant need that comes from other end (e.g. Apple iPhone to MNOs)
    
    
## Prospective

### Who should be doing what?

#### APIs

* sockets -> TAPS, maybe not the end of the story
* conf tool seession management
* can new thinking in networking APIs help?
    * ICN based approaches? 

#### Standards Bodies

* IETF
* W3C
* Cloud stds
* GSMA 
* IRTF

### Future viewpoints

* Funding for decentralization and interoperable application models
* Open source and interoperability for future projects in this area
* Govt money --> Std. ref. implementation --> viable services -->
* Govt. regulation --> iff usable suitable
* Sustainability
    * We have a model but getting enough funding to motivate sustainability
    * [Jabber] Conferences
    * Versioning (to more Git like ongoing evolution model).

### Final thoughts

- **Something succeeds because there were factors to make things succeed. We have to pay attention to the economics and social aspects. We cannot shape economics by forcing inter-operability. Forces trying to drag services into walled gardens**
- **managing bad actors requires entity management system that has inherent trust aspects. Decentralized chat systems will fail due to inherent missing trust.**
- 

## Open discussions

* How can network support applications in the wild?
    * How would network get to know about application performance
    * BPF, Media over QUIC?

* What about APIs?
    * OS APIs to networking vs. what applications need
    * 



## Whiteboard


![](https://i.imgur.com/ny42iku.jpg)
