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# System prepended metadata

title: Ethereum Magicians Summer Sessions Notes

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#  Ethereum Magicians Summer Sessions Notes

### Sessions are recorded and they will be uploaded on YouTube later 
### Get POAP by posting pic  / screenshot of you enjoying this event - sessions [to this thread ](https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/ethereum-magicians-summer-sessions-get-there-early-on-29-july-2020-at-3-6pm-cet/4421)
### [Networking platform](https://gather.town/4Ip9lJfVy8QuRV7m/summer-sessions-2020)

## Social Governance 
See also [Jamie's Notes](https://hackmd.io/kizZgCGdRiWmicvU1DDRhQ)

Public Notes (mostly chaals is to blame for these):

Mattison: Introduces Social governance - twitter etc are there to create controversy to generate ads, rather than helping to drive consensus in a community.


JamesH: the structure is hard and slow to set up, but when we need it we need it *now*

Greg: If people miss the process they miss the magicians forum discussion. at AllCoreDevs things are prety settled, so then if core devs  decide people can ask "wait, where did that happen? Why didn't I get a say?"

Chaals: How do we balance community needs, skin in the game, and allowing individual to contrivute even if they weren't doing it since 1994 and aren't *yet* recognised as someone important? How do we reject individual bad actions from otherwise helpful and respected contribrutors

Mattison: Each idea gets worked on individually, so it 

Jamie: so it's the idea that is the core, not the person who is promoting it. Problem is that people use SEO technique to gamify that too :(
... In history of Coredevs, being unstructured prevents some gamification because the power structure is subtle, and based on recognition among existing core devs.

Chaals: problem is that is intimidating to newcomers

JH: I think it just obfuscates the gamification

Chaals +1

Mattison: Agree. Biggest question people have is "who is a core dev?" That indicates there is a game being played to answer that question.

Alita: Itis hard to have a structure without pople making it into a heriarchy, so expecting that and building it in is actually helpful

chaals: +1

JamesH: Process is emergent, which is hard for people. There are people who are, people who aren't, but there is a grey area in between - which is fine. This matches how a lot of reality works - is it a frog, is it an animal, ...

Alita: Label is "*core* devs" and that means something to people.

Greg; That refers to the core protocol that drives Ethereum, but it is hard to make that clear

Alita: It might be possibl to have a large anarchic group. What if you called it "infrastructure devs"?

Jamie: Yeah, the name can be confusing. It's people with power over the core

Greg: We do actually have that power...

Alita: if the goal is anarchy it might be better to remove the power

Chaals: But you can't. Better to describe it, without making it too rigid. That way we make it clear to people how they can come into this world and what they need to do in ordert to have an impact for some proposal they want to promote.

Jamie: ACD does work with its "tyrannical" lack of structure (*IMHO*). Should we mess with that, or augment it?

Lightclient: What is the problem we arew discussing?

Mattison: What is the process of getting community input to the All Core Devs - how do they and we make sure they are listening to the community at large? Thius is what we call Social Governance. So we are looking at having a coredev community (among other communities) on the Ether, where hopefully all EIPs get discussed. Anyone can get points from discussing the ideas there. So people can see something about the history of people who come into the dicussion...

Chaals: Can you pre-populate Ether with history so we can see what it looks like?

Mattison: Exactly the plan, so you can see when it starts off how it works out.

Jamie: Coredev calls might be a good source of concentrated starter information.

Alita: Catherders transcribe.

Jamie: notes make it so much more accessible. That's great.

chaals: +1 notes are super-valuable

Jamie: There are people trying to transfer twitter presence into somde scoring thing. That seems similar. Issue is you bring the distortion of the platform too.

Mattison: Want the content from other platforms of what people wanted to discuss, not the social ranking etc. Hive used twitter metrics, that isn't what we are looking at.

Greg: Notes are invaluable. But don't assume they are correct, check against the video, ... [chaals is writing notes here and agrees wholeheartedly that notes have limited reliability]. Nobody will listen to the call if tghey don't need to.

Alita: If note-takers had a board of topics they could point out that tnhis is bneing discussed.

Greg: We have an agernda for that

Chaals: CSSBot takes discussions from W3C teleconf in IRC, and pastes it as comments into github...

Jamie: What's the impact of doing that?

Alita; WOuld be cool for asynch too - you can collect stuff up and work in parallel...

Jamie: Right. Forum is  to create structure instead of a gitter stream with multiple overlaps. Github comments are also pretty linear.

Alita: Right. Time zones are painful... so having a board could help

Chaals: Timezones, languages, having to be in a meeting sets up structural biases (i.e. Alita is really onto a crucial point)

Jamie: Being able to manage this in the Ether platform might help get traction by demonstrating a clear advantage. That's why the magician's forum addressing gthe problem of multiple threads made it valuable.

Annett: Feel free to continue this in the [gather town platform](https://gather.town/4Ip9lJfVy8QuRV7m/summer-sessions-2020)

Lightclient: Can you provide examples of where governance has failed?

Greg: ProgPoW is a paradigmatic example here...

Lightclient: What went wrong there? That it isn't in the protocol, or...?

Masher: The discussion around it made a lot of people feel like they were unheard, and isolated them, so it breaks down the sense of community. (I don't care about the actual technology decision...)

Lightclient: How do you deal with large communities? 

Masher: There are ways to reduce the sense that disagreement means being excluded.

Chaals: Anecdotally, people feel excluded so don't continue to contribute, and that means we actually move forward less effectively because it takes far longer to consolidate input and understand what the community really wants and thinks should be implemented.

JamesH: People who signed a letter to Core Devs and twitter discussions show that there is an issue there. 1559 shows a disconnect between "community" and "core devs" persisted for a long time. A platform that bridged this could help us move forward faster by catching problems earlier.

## EIP IP
[Slides](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ni8i7qJrBY8ndKsfjKWatMyT81vKYggDLXj4liVhg3U/edit#slide=id.g8ceef63252_1_0)
Great Question : 
lightclient : Why is the EIPIP group not recognized within the EIPs repo / why doesn't it just exist in the repo?
Hudson: It is a community effort that isn't "official" although it is basically de-facto. We don't share the EIPs repo for that reason. Also to keep it cleaner.
Why is there no "official" effort to improve the EIP process
Hudson Jameson:
Who would make it official? :)
lightclient:
I think defining the group members / owners in the EIPs repo would give it more legitimacy + write access to actually make the changes they are working on
Hudson:
@lightclient. EIP editors already have write access and legitimacy. The EIPIP group will be making pull requests and following the EIP processes as they are today to make changes.
From Hudson Jameson to Everyone: (4:56 PM)
https://github.com/ethereum-cat-herders/EIPIP/issues/25
From James Hancock to Everyone: (4:57 PM)
https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=ethereum.org_semftevk58vu53rv149mvkla78%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America%2FDenver

## EIP-1559
Barnabe's latest notebook: https://nbviewer.jupyter.org/github/barnabemonnot/abm1559/blob/master/notebooks/stationary1559.ipynb
Here is a notes file if there are any related links, later on hopefully there will be more notes from the recorded call itself: https://hackmd.io/X_OLTFH3RTWr697BA0fzjA
From Dan Finlay to Everyone: (5:38 PM)
 https://ethresear.ch/t/draft-position-paper-on-resource-pricing/2838 
From Dan Finlay to Everyone: (5:42 PM)
 https://ethresear.ch/t/first-and-second-price-auctions-and-improved-transaction-fee-markets/2410 

