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# System prepended metadata

title: 'https://bit.ly/uxuncon2023wallets'

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# Multichain Breakout at UX Event

### PLEASE HELP https://bit.ly/uxuncon2023wallets
### FigJam here: https://www.figma.com/file/eYE8VB3BzU5FvCNGw3thTh/UX-Unconference?type=whiteboard&node-id=0%3A43&t=eo8UithnjgfbA7EH-1

## Intros (leave a github if you want to be tagged when this gets posted to a gist)
- bumblefudge - https://chainagnostic.org
- Kyle Den Hartog - Brave - https://twitter.com/pryvitKyle
- Gheorghe Pinzaru - Slingshot Finance, 3loop - https://twitter.com/ferossgp https://github.com/Ferossgp
- Cheryl - CCP Games - github.com/rhubarbgarden
- Nuno Loureiro - EF -https://twitter.com/nloureiro / https://github.com/nloureiro
- Hester Bruikman - MetaMask https://twitter.com/hesterbruikman
- Alina Aseeva - StableUnit - https://twitter.com/alinaaisay
- Kyle Becker - Freelance UX strategist, researcher, & designer - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-becker-44132223/


## UX discussion

- inventory of many problems
    1. no one has them
    1. the ones they are often don't do both EVM and UTXO/BTC-based
    2. Pains of wallets not being (EVM) multichain
    3. Pains of wallets being (EVM) multichain
        4. Recipient account conflicts
            5. [CAIP-10](https://chainagnostic.org/CAIPs/caip-10) vs [ERC3770](https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-2255) :hot_pepper: 
        6. OneKey and other "all-chain" EVM wallets (have interesting UX)
    6. wallet capabilities and permissions
        7. [CAIP-25](https://chainagnostic.org/CAIPs/caip-25) versus [EIP-2255](https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-2255)
            8. Is it ok to expose all chains available?
    9. mental model of wrapped tokens = not skeumorphic; what would be better? 
        - cheryl: "synthetic shares of a company not jurisdictionally allowed"
        - kyle: "i just call them IOUs" - there's no IOU system between MC and Visa, just "out of network fees" (usually swallowed by merchant IRL); what is the skeumorphism for normie fiat tokens
        - : is FX the mental model? are eth and matic and erc20s all just "currencies"?
        - : when i walk into an arcade or a casino, tokens are tokens, i assume they are only useful in that network/boundary/place; i think the interop problems here are diff
        - kyle: how does DeFi or multichain wallet UX compare to, e.g. [Transfer]Wise
    1. Gas for each L1, which is the precondition of a multichain txn (first txn on a new chain = hurdle/switching cost)
        - tradfi/fiat does not have a cleanly analogous problem- merchant is connected to a network already, enduser doesn't see network costs
        - gas estimation different across chains
        - cheryl: you see fees later on your receipt or in your mobile app a few seconds after a fiat txn goes through
        - Aggregating balances across multiple chains/getting multiple states simultaneously is expensive
        - Esther: in multichain hop, each hop has its own trust model and reporting requirement (duty of transparency to end-user)
            - : but in some cases it makes sense to abstract out minor amounts and minor risks
            - kyle: maybe diff UX set by policy (i.e. show me verbose mode over 3% total txn costs, or over X number of hops/risks/etc)
        - Esther: Current norm is "how fast do you want finality" but maybe there are other variables that matter, like # of hops or risk level
    1. Configurability: analogy to `://settings` panel in a browser - set defaults
        - esther: "Network allowances"
        - kyle: or even per-dapp - state managed by wallet
            - Site permissions vs session permissions
            - : but consent model is diff from tradfi - network costs are variable and unknowable in advance by def in most L1s
                 - but there is a network fee versus speed tradoff: ACH (messaging via SWIFT even if clearance lags after) versus WIRE (slower, sometimes cheaper, actually waits to clear)
                - ACH includes a messaging system to inform of tx status
                - Product thinking: why not just overcharge upfront and refund what network costs DIDN'T cost
    1. Kyle: Anecdote: Estimating and then Buying ENS token for an ENS lease or alternative domains across chains (ERC + native gas)
        - app estimated gas as X, wallet estimated as much more (and thus insuff), etc
        - : L2 gas estimation also factors in fractional L1 anchoring
        - : irregularity of gas fees is a real roadblock to wider adoption and new usecases - how could fees be 
        - kyle: "subscription wallet" business models (cover all fees, flat fee per month)
            - //savings accts w/txn limits to keep enough of it in there to lend it out
        - : manufacturing supply chains arb/hedge FX with some balance moving; 
        - esther: embedded paymaster in 4337 wallets?
    1. UX of gas fees - taking a step back: what do we expose and how? how balance transparency against info overload or anxiety-inducing risk-reporting?
        - : showing USD equiv keeps UX locked to USD?
            - : recent depeg of USDC triggered a wallet UX cascade (i.e. Eth was "depegging" because virtually pegged to ETH/USDC pair or display purposes)
            - kyle: day-to-day mental models <> wallet UX unthinkingly/groupthinkingly pegged to current economic basis
            - use-case specific: a game-wallet should not display 
    3. Risk of dapps moving to centralized CCIP's to achieve faster chain switching
    1. Kyle: abstract out multi-chain complexity or surface network 
        - cheryl: USDC multichain problem: users have to know what chain their USDC is on to know where they can send it
        - : at slingshot we have this same trust model-- our wallet users trust us and we settle across contexts for them (banking them for a few blocks between settlement and clearance)
            - appchains are making this harder, tho
            - Esther: is an "appchain" just a euphemism for a centralized L2 or a soon-to-be-token?
            - Esther: L2s can innovate technically, but this makes the gas-system differences worse, too
    1. multichain transfer 
        - trusted oracles and bridges (faster across L2s cuz of shared basis, can be almost atomic, yet cross-L1 not so much)
    1. why do we need multichain in the first place?
        - cheryl: wallet adapter and wallet standard
    1. censorship and IP/HTTP limitations
    1. Kyle: Bigger picture: are we wasting time on 
- Conclusions and reporting out?
    - Kyle: Gas sucks, wen txn futures market
        - there's no next billion if gas keeps sucking this much
        - AA doesn't necessarily solve this, just further splinter the solution space
        - pushing complexity to user
    - : simplicity versus complexity
        - Kyle: Power users versus reasonable defaults
        - : aren't most wallets power-user only? wallet market is super splintered in those terms
        - learning to drive versus learning to fill tires versus learning to fix a car
        - : Ownership or gas or fees is a human concept; chains are not
    - continuing the conversation:
        - [secure design WG at CASA](https://github.com/ChainAgnostic/secure-design/blob/main/meetings.md)
        - [wallet uncon](https://hackmd.io/PSAuGF9nR2-isyWoaCtLYw?view)
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