---
tags: turing-way, collaboration-cafe
---
# Fireside Chat - Community series by The Turing Way | Periodically

==**The Turing Way Fireside Chat is a community event series that features people and projects in open science and reproducible research.**==

*The Turing Way Fireside chat series feature experts, champions and their projects from across different international communities in reproducibility, open research, ethics, collaboration and everything in between. This is an opportunity for catalysing cross-community collaboration and knowledge sharing.*

**When?** Monthly! Third or fourth Friday of the month, based on the availability of speakers/panelists.

*Upcoming events*

- September 2023 - **Who is building open source AI?**: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/709277416847?aff=oddtdtcreator

*Proposed topics for future discussion*

- Harnessing potential for research communication in 21st century
- Challenges for created a shared open infrastructure

*Previous events*

| MONTH YYYY | Theme of the Fireside Chat | Details | Notes |
| -------- | -------- | -------- | -------- |
| 22 October 2021 | **What exactly is The Turing Way?** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-turing-way-fireside-chat-tickets-185011543507?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://youtu.be/nuNA3Qa8A-k) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-oct2021 |
| 10 December 2021 | **Shared Concerns in Open Research Communities** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-shared-concerns-in-open-research-communities-tickets-217634158627?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO3adCIXCu8&list=PLBxcQEfGu3DmBcSmt9GVfo4wN1KP1y2yl&index=2) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-dec2021 |
| 11 February 2022 | **Gaps and opportunities for multilingual data science** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-gaps-opportunities-for-inclusive-multilingual-data-science-tickets-255972068347?aff=ebdsoporgprofile) [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydogg2tQljA&list=PLBxcQEfGu3DmBcSmt9GVfo4wN1KP1y2yl&index=3) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-feb2022 |
| 25 MARCH 2022 | **Emergent Roles in Research Infrastructure & Technology** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-emergent-roles-in-research-infrastructure-technology-tickets-294499364527?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_GFRS-u-Q) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-mar2022 |
| 29 APRIL 2022 | **Enabling Inclusive Research Conferencing in the ‘Post-Pandemic Era’** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/enabling-inclusive-research-conferencing-in-the-post-pandemic-era-tickets-318719758377), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_GFRS-u-Q&list=PLBxcQEfGu3DmBcSmt9GVfo4wN1KP1y2yl&index=4) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-apr2022 |
| JUNE 2022 | **Enabling Inclusive Research Conferencing** | [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImwJqo1zbMI&list=PLBxcQEfGu3DmBcSmt9GVfo4wN1KP1y2yl&index=5) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-june2022 |
| JULY 2022 | **Reflections from The Turing Way** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/reflections-replications-and-perspectives-from-the-turing-way-tickets-368582268487?aff=ebdsoporgprofile) [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeeRZZ3-Stc&list=PLBxcQEfGu3DmBcSmt9GVfo4wN1KP1y2yl&index=7) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-july2022 |
| AUGUST 2022 | **Defining open infrastructure in different contexts** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/defining-open-infrastructure-in-different-contexts-tickets-401269928157?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE2NXe74nSc) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-aug2022 |
| SEPTEMBER 2022 | **Connecting open hardware to open sciences** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/connecting-open-hardware-to-open-science-tickets-423284805247?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ufANMIDxo&t=1900s) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-sep2022 |
| OCTOBER 2022 | **Participatory and Citizen Science** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/supporting-citizen-participatory-science-communities-tickets-445204818597?aff=ebdsoporgprofile), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaPydydUcOc&t=8s) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-oct2022 |
| MARCH 2023 | **Community Care in Times of Digital Burnout** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/reflect-unlearn-reframe-community-care-in-times-of-digital-burnout-tickets-567859923317), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfNn4WgBUCQ) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-mar2023 |
| MAY 2023 | **Implementing Open Science at Scale** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/621011240337), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MnYZpwzpfU&t) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-may2023 |
| JUNE 2023 | **Between computation, climate and culture: perspectives on sustainability and research** | [Speaker's details](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/662158412637), [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrkFFswPGOE) | Etherpad: https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/ttw-fireside-chat-june2023 |

# Fireside Chat - Hosted by The Turing Way and [add collaborating project]

## Title

*This session will be hosted by **Moderator1 and Moderator2**.*

*Bring along your tea, coffee, snack and questions about The Turing Way. And, while you wait for the event to start - please read more about the chairs, speakers and the event in this document. 🌻*

* **Date:** DD Month 2022
* **Time:** HH:MM - HH:MM UTC (starting time in your time zone: [https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2022-02-11/14:00)](https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2022-02-11/14:00)) <-- update this
* **Who should join?** ***Anyone*** interested in learning more about translation of technical resources in data science and research.
* **How you can join? Eventbrite page:** [Link] <--- **Please register to receive a Zoom link.**
* *The Zoom's waiting room is enabled. The host of this call will let you in.*
* ***All questions, comments, and recommendations are welcome on this Etherpad or on Zoom chat!***

**Fireside Chat is an informal event series that features people and projects in reproducible research.**

*Thank you for joining us! We’re delighted to have you here.*

## 🔥 Propose a topic for a Fireside Chat

*Can’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us:* [http://bit.ly/turingway](*http://bit.ly/turingway*)

We are looking for proposals for future discussions on *building cross-community collaborations, establishing context-specific support systems and working together towards global sustainability of the open infrastructure as part of this event series. Please propose your suggestion below or reach out to Malvika Sharan by emailing [e-mail].*

### 📢 Who should we feature/invite in the next session?

(This could be you, someone you admire, a project that you are proud of or a group/topic that could be useful to highlight)
*
*
*

## 🗣️Welcome!

[Add host's name]

* **Please note that this call will be recorded**
* The video will be available on the YouTube channel in the next days: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA)
* Turn on your webcam if you don’t mind sharing your face (or off if you do!)
* Reminder:
* **Code of conduct**: [https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html](https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html)
* If you experience or witness unacceptable behaviour, or have any other concerns, please report it by contacting the project members - Malvika and Kirstie Whitaker ([e-mail]).
* To report an issue at the *Exploring gaps and opportunities for multilingual data science* event involving one of the organisers, please email one of the members individually ([e-mail], [e-mail])
* We have enabled the **closed caption (live transcription),** please click on 'cc' at the bottom of your Zoom screen

## 👋 Icebreaker

*(Getting to know each other and this Etherpad for collaborative notes)*

**Name / City you are joining from / Social media (if you'd like to connect with others) / Icebreaker question?**

*
*
*

## ⁉ Open Q \& A
*
*
*

## 📝 Notes, comments and references by attendees
*
*
*

### Useful links

* *Couldn’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us: *[http://bit.ly/turingway](*http://bit.ly/turingway*)
* Shared notes for collaboration cafes: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe)
* Weekly coworking calls: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call)
* The Turing Way GitHub repository: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way)
* All about online Collaboration Cafes
* Turing Way calendar: [https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ](https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ)
* Contribution guidelines: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md)
* Join us on Slack: [https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack](https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack)
* Join the mailing list: [https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay](https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay)

## Feedback

**What worked?**
*
*
*

**What didn’t work?**
*
*
*

**What would you change?**
*
*
*

**What surprised you?**
*
*
*

License: CC BY 4.0, *The Turing Way*, 2021

Timer: [https://cuckoo.team/tw-fireside](https://cuckoo.team/tw-fireside)

---

# Fireside Chat Series: Examples of some previous Notes

## Fireside Chat - Hosted by The Turing Way and Talarify

Exploring gaps and opportunities for inclusive, multilingual data science
This session will be hosted by Malvika Sharan and Anelda van der Walt.

* Date: 11 February 2022
* Time: 14:00 - 15:30 UTC (starting time in your time zone: https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2022-02-11/14:00)
* Who should join? Anyone interested in learning more about translation of technical resources in data science and research.
* How you can join? Eventbrite page: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-gaps-opportunities-for-inclusive-multilingual-data-science-tickets-255972068347 <--- Please register to receive a Zoom link.

Fireside Chat is an informal event series that features people and projects in reproducible research.
Thank you for joining us! We’re delighted to have you here.

🔥 Propose a topic for a Fireside Chat
Can’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us: http://bit.ly/turingway
We invite proposals for future discussions on building cross-community collaborations, establishing context-specific support systems and working together towards global sustainability of the open infrastructure as part of this event series. Please propose your suggestion below or reach out to Malvika Sharan by emailing [e-mail].

📢 Who should we feature/invite in the next session?
(This could be you, someone you admire, a project that you are proud of or a group/topic that could be useful to highlight)

🗣️Welcome!
(Malvika Sharan)

👋 Icebreaker
(Getting to know each other and this Etherpad for collaborative notes)
Name / City you are joining from / Social media (if you'd like to connect with others) / How does translation and multilingual approaches impact your work/communities you participate in?

* Malvika Sharan / London, UK / t @malvikasharan / Translation process have allowed me to connect and learn from different communities. It has enriched my understanding of their need and impact on research loandscape.
* Anelda van der Walt / Western Cape, South Africa / t @aneldavdw /
* Batool Almarzouq/ Saudi Arabia / @batool664 /
* Yanina Bellini Saibene / Argentina / t @yabellini / It allows us to be part
* David Pérez-Suárez / London, UK / 🐦 @dvdgc13 / Translations helps us to reach farther, getting new ideas and different perspectives.
* Angelique Trusler / Johannesburg, South Africa / @AngeliquePhd /With South Africa having 11 national languages it will help us teach and support more
* Sarah Stevens (she/her/hers) / Madison, WI, United States / @microStevens / In a broad way it affects the accessiblity of the various communities I work in, as having materials in only one language is a barrier for individuals to join and particpate in those communities. This also means the communities in question miss out on including an important diversity of thoughts and perspectives.
* Camila Rangel Smith (she/her)/ London, Uk/ t: @CamilaRangelS/
* Jez Cope (he/him) / Yorkshire, UK / 🐦🦊🐙 jezcope / British Library collections include many different languages and scripts, including historical ones, but handwritten text recognition is primarily focused on English/other western languages & scripts, so transcription of much of this digitised material is challenging
* Kirstie Whitaker (she/her) / London, UK / t: @kirstie_j / I care most about translation and multilingual approaches because I worry quite a bit about being really hypocritical!! Like, we say "we want everyonet to feel able to participate" and then quietly whisper (but only if you speak English)!! That's no good!
* * I can only speak English so the other impact is that I'm always completely in awe of everyone working in multiple languages. KUDOS and thank you!
* Lena Karvovskaya (she/her) /Delft, the Netherlands/@lingdata In my work I have to switch between Dutch and English. It is very difficult sometimes because the language can create a huge barrior for participation. At the same time it's not feasible to do everything in both languages
* Sarah Gibson / London, UK / t: @drsarahgibson, gh: @sgibson91
* Ayesha Dunk / London, UK / I studied Thai in my undergrad and spent a year of that studying at a University in Thailand - it was really eye opening living and studying in a country where the language was not my mother tongue. At times, I felt very alone! Translation and multilingual approaches will apply to my work in the training and skills team at the Turing and understanding how best to make what we do as inclusive as possible.
* Jennifer Ding (she/her) / London, UK / t: @jen_gineered / applying non-English language models to "understanding" social media conversation has opened my eyes to how much of the "nautral language translation" challenge is still very much an open problem, especially for Internet lingo like slang/memes
* Heather Turner (she/her) / Newport, UK / tw: @HeathrTurnr / translation and multilingual approaches enable wider participation in the R community, e.g. in conferences, or websites, in R itself. We had an issue about documentation translation as a possible Google Season of Docs project: https://github.com/rstats-gsod/gsod2022/issues/1. It was considered to be low priority as Google Translate does a reasonable job (tested by a French speaker). I'd be interested in what other people think - feel free to get in contact or comment on the issue.
* Kozo Nishida (he/him) / Osaka, Japan / @kozo2 / Japanese people tend to avoid English, and the presence or absence of translation has a great impact on the communication of information.
* Achintya Rao / Bristol, UK / @RaoOfPhysics
* Aida Mehonic / London, UK / T: @amehonic /
* Piv Gopalasingam (he/him) / Cambridge, UK / Tw: @Cascade21 GH: @PivG / Many bioinformatics trainees + trainers have English as a second/third language, for global bioinformatics training, supporting multilingual training is crucial but capacity to do so within EMBL-EBI requires development. Future positive outcomes? Great bioinformatics/biosci and innovation worldwide, and democratizing science further.. In Latin America we supported work to translate training materials to Spanish, and support delivery in Spanish (or Portuguese, for our train the trainer work).
* Alejandro Coca / London, UK / t: @alejo_coca / Democratising open science knowledge and scientific software practices in the environmental science community.
* Natalia Morandeira (she/her) / Buenos Aires, Argentina / Tw @Nat_Mora_ / Removes language barrier when learning or when reading an article. It's s
* Anne Treasure / Cape Town, South Africa / @annemtreasure
* Esther Plomp / Delft, the Netherlands / @PhDtoothFAIRy / The majority of the community does not natively speak English and we have data available in several languages.
* Vicky Hellon / London, UK. @vickyhellon
* María Nanton / Buenos Aires, Argentina / @bynans1 / Translation lowers the barrier to entry for people who want to enter the data science / analytics field coming from disciplines that are not used to working with English resources. Many of the attendees to our RLadies meetups are beginners or juniors for whom language could be a serious barrier for getting to the adequate resources they need for their career change.
* Patricia Herterich / Edinburgh, UK / @pherterich
* Vanessa Vogel-Farley/Wisconsin, US/. translation and multilingual approaches impact my work/communities I participate in by allowing rare disease communities to connect and create data that represents ALL of those affected by that rare disease not just those that are usually represented in research and clinical insights. Rare disease does not have boarders or a central language which means we need our approaches to not have those either.
* Typhaine Paysan-Lafosse (she/her) / Cambridge, UK / @typhainepl / I've done my university studies in France and all the scientific resources were in English, making it difficult for me to understand. As part of my job I give training, atm exclusively in English, I'd like to develop training material in other languages to make it accessible to a wider community.
* Rayya El Zein / Philadelphia, USA / @rayelz /
* Emilio Mayorga / Seattle, USA /
* Cecilia Herbert (she/her) / Buenos Aires, Argentina / @ChuckleScience / Having educational resources in one's own language allows us to focus more on the content than how it is expressed, thus learning better as well as helping to share more easily within local communities (This is part of why we founded Talleres Open Source). In my graduate degree, most of the publishing work I had to do twice since we publish our theses in Spanish but publish papers in English. This is not necessarily taken account as part of the programming/data analysis workflow.

#### ⁉ Open Q & A for the event hosts

Questions covered by the panelists

* What can we learn from the humanities, arts, literature, industry or other domains where the translation or multilingual practices are more mature? You can give either a positive or not so positive example/experience.
* **Question for David:** What are different aspects of translation and can you mention some related challenges you have faced and how you have address them? (thinking about internationalisation vs localisation)
* For collaborations on Spanish materials (translations or new materials) involving volunteer contributors from different countries, how do you make localization decisions when contributors' time/bandwidth is limited and you're trying to maximize your audience? I imagine there are similar challenges with other multi-national languages like Arabic.

📝 Notes and comments by attendees

* What can we learn from the humanities, arts, literature, industry or other domains where the translation or multilingual practices are more mature? You can give either a positive or not so positive example/experience.
* Multilingual experiences
* signs in multiple languages
* repeated TV programme in different language on different days
* What are different aspects of translation and can you mention some related challenges you have faced and how you have address them? (thinking about internationalisation vs localisation)
* not all translations are exactly the same as the source - e.g. wikipedia pages. Sometimes the translations can be better than the original. e.g. https://www.wired.com/2016/10/wired-book-club-ken-liu-interview/
* think about organisation - which language are you going to use, how you're going to work, etc
* localisation vs just straight translation of
* Yani: you can't just take the words and translate word for word. There are different "flavours" for each language. Have to decide which flavour will be used. How to translate technical terms consistantly. How to handle gender. Especially for languages where words are not gender neutral. Also gender neutral language. Not just words either, need to translate diagrams etc.
* Here is some info from one of the projects Yani was involved in: https://github.com/gvwilson/teachtogether.tech
* Here are the guide of the translation (in Spanish): https://github.com/gvwilson/teachtogether.tech/blob/main/es/README.md
* Natalia: Figures and their alt-text
* Bobby: some English words do not exist at all in other languages and vice versa.
* Yani: making the text more relatable by changing the names to local names, using local cities, local literature, etc in examples. Can end up feeding back improvements to the original text, as really get to the bottom of what the author meant.
* Camila: can be hard for collaboratively written text like the Turing Way - don't have one author to refer to, to understand how to translate effectively.
* Batool: most tools do not support non-Latin script or languages that are read right-to-left (RTL)
* Carpentries' Glosario: https://glosario.carpentries.org/
* Low-resource languages
* Knowledge Equity Lab podcast: Knowledge by Whom? Knowledge for Whom? https://knowledgeequitylab.ca/podcast/ep1/
* Camila: automatic machine translation is biased, but gets information out; human translation and review is better, but can stop information flow
* Yani: need people for localization even if automatic translation gets better, especially for teaching. Paying people would help!
* Malvika: need diversity in the room - sometimes a localization (e.g. changing to local newspaper) may seem a good idea, but might not be received well!
* Yani: need translation from non-English languages to English as well, non-English speakers have a lot of knowledge to share.
* Bobby: need user-friendly apps for translation (avoiding programming syntax/markup)
* Batool: labour needs to be acknowledged, e.g. having to produce material twice in own language and in English.
* David: embedding multilanguage culture from the beginning, early in children's lives.
* Camila: large language models should not be in the hands of big companies
* Anelda: organizations and companies should use the expertise of people wih lived experience

#### References

* Localisation platforms - sharing glossaries across projects to find terminology when concepts are new in languages
*
* Language policy framework from South Africa: https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/202011/43860gon1160.pdf
* A lovely multilingual magazine for/by African youth - https://issuu.com/africanyouthliterature

----
## Archive: 10 December 2021

# Fireside Chat - Hosted by The Turing Way

Short link to this Etherpad: [https://bit.ly/ttw-fireside-chat](https://bit.ly/ttw-fireside-chat)

* **Date:** 10 December 2021
* **Time:** 17:00 - 18:00 UTC (in your time zone: [https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2021-12-10/17:00)](https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2021-12-10/17:00))
* We have saved additional (and optional) 30 minutes for open discussion: **18:00 - 18:30 UTC**
* **Who should join?** ***Anyone*** interested in learning more about Open Research Communities
* **How you can join? Eventbrite page:** **[https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-shared-concerns-in-open-research-communities-tickets-217634158627](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-shared-concerns-in-open-research-communities-tickets-217634158627)<--- **Please register to receive a Zoom link.**
* *The Zoom's waiting room is enabled. The host of this call will let you in.*
* ***All questions, comments, and recommendations are welcome on this Etherpad or on Zoom chat!***

**Fireside Chat is an informal event series that features people and projects in reproducible research.**

*Thank you for joining us! We’re delighted to have you here.*

## 🔥 About the Fireside Chat event

*The session chair **Emmy Tsang** will be joined by **Kate Hertweck, Tiago Lubiana, Humberto Julio Debat and Melissa Mendonça** to reflect on their experiences from both the grassroots as well as established open research communities. As members of multiple open science and research groups across the Global South and North, they will explore what concerns, values and goals are shared by different communities.This event will invite future discussions on building cross-community collaborations, establishing context-specific support systems and working together towards global sustainability of the open infrastructure.*

Bring along your tea, coffee, snack and questions about The Turing Way. And, while you wait for the event to start - please read more about the chair and speakers here: [https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-shared-concerns-in-open-research-communities-tickets-217634158627](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fireside-chat-shared-concerns-in-open-research-communities-tickets-217634158627). 🌻

*Can’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us:* [http://bit.ly/turingway](*http://bit.ly/turingway*)

## 🗣️Welcome!

**Chaired by Emmy Tsang**

* **Please note that this call will be recorded**
* The video will be available on the YouTube channel in the next days: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA)
* Turn on your webcam if you don’t mind sharing your face (or off if you do!)
* Reminder:
* **Code of conduct**: [https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html](https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html)
* If you experience or witness unacceptable behaviour, or have any other concerns, please report it by contacting the project members - Malvika and Kirstie ([e-mail]).
* To report an issue involving one of the organisers, please email one of the members individually ([e-mail], [e-mail])
* We have enabled the **closed caption (live transcription),** please click on 'cc' at the bottom of your Zoom screen

## 👋 Icebreaker

*(Getting to know each other and this Etherpad for collaborative notes)*

**Name / City you are joining from / Social media (if you'd like to connect with others) / What biggest concern you have for a community you participate in?**
* Malvika Sharan / London, UK / t @malvikasharan / funding, contextualisation of open science, cross-community collaboration
* Kate Hertweck / Seattle, WA, USA, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative / t @k8hert / community values + governance
* Emmy Tsang / Utrecht, Netherlands! / t @emmy\_ft / governance (how decisions get made, who's involved...)
* Humberto Debat / Cordoba Argentina / @humbertodebat /
* Esther Plomp / the Hague, Netherlands / t @PhDtoothFAIRy / recognition/time spent for activities
* Kirstie Whitaker / London, UK / t: @kirstie\_j / Welcoming new folks - how do we find ways to build confidence and also provide value for their work
* Paul Schultze-Motel / Berlin, Germany / @psm\_os
* Emma Karoune/Portsmouth, UK / @ekaroune / Keeping/sustaining engagement with the community
* Gabe Winter / Jena, Germany / @GbWinter / convincing senior researchers to adhere to open science practices
* Sara/Gothenburg. Sweden/yalahowy/fatigue, most community efforts rely on "in-kind" contributions which is a privilege!
* Abby Cabunoc Mayes / Toronto Canada / t:@abbycabs / governance \& sustaining (apologies, I'm just listening and may step out)
* Sebastián Ayala Ruano/Quto, Ecuador/@sayalaruano/maintaining communities over time and funding
* Nazia Nasir/ Leeds, UK/@NaziaPCL/Engaging with the researchers who are usually uninterested in research practices.
* Nadine Spychala / Brighton, UK / t: @NadineSpychala / one of my biggest concerns in (neuro)science is building castles in the air (as opposed to generating reliable robust cumulative knowledge)
* Wolfgang Lukas / Graz, Austria / @wolfganglukas / creating and facilitating values-based (research) "communities of practice", e.g. with the Mindful Researchers initiative
* Jo Havemann / Berlin, Germany / @openscicomm / enabling multilingualism :) and globally inclusive research collaboration
* Inessa Pawson / Naples, FL, USA / @inessapawson / project governance practices that lead to sustainability
* Patricia Logullo / originally from Brazil, but now based in Oxford, UK / EQUATOR Network (working with transparency in biomedical research) / @patlogullo
* Tiago Lubiana / Rio de Janeiro, Brazil / @lubianat / How to reduce the stress people have to withstand

## ⁉ Open Q \& A for the event hosts

* **QUESTION for the panel:** Comment from Patricia Logullo: I agree with Tiago that the access to knowledge is a human right. Especially regarding human health. However, I have been facing situations where the producers of medical devices don't share their code and data because of copyright/patent barriers. They foresee a medical product/device will be commercially available in the future (when properly tested) so they don't share now -- which impairs checking and vetting and reviewing. Can you comment?
* Sorry about the delay! I'll try to comment whenever we have some time :) - Tiago
*

* Comment from Aricarxiv: in my view it’s a matter of unlearning and easing pressure points. ECRs come into the system with an open mind and intention to share their findings but t
* **QUESTION for the panel:** Question from Emma Karoune: Do you think funder policies on open access/research, such as in UKRI and ERC, will actually influence the change of research culture? Will it make those that are not adopting these practices want to or need to join in?
* Comment from Rory: comment to Melissa's point about the difficulty of creating community at particular institutions. I was going to mention and described the ReproducibiliTEA 'movement' which is helping to enable this kind of community building at many universities here in the UK.
* Comment from Sara el Gebali: There is something to be said about “standard-templated” code of conducts that don’t take into account divergence, whether it is neurodivergence, cultural, etc… The bigger the community is, the more heterogeneous and you are bound to end up offending someone and conflicts are bound to happen, but having sensible good faith code of conducts that outline just that, coupled with kindness should be a prioritised and not fall into the trap of “I have a COC, now all is well with the world” Rather, what does it promote is more important!
* Kate: Sara, I absolutely agree with this. I’ve been learning recently about new-to-me communities for which a boilerplate Code of Conduct is mismatched against the surrounding culture. Again, this is more an issue of communication and language than the actual values involved, which hopefully means there are additional templating solutions that can assist!
* Sara: Kate, the emphasis on values, and it will have to do with the commitment and engagement of the community leader/s as well as looking at who is evaluating code of conduct breaches (diverse committee who can perhaps relate to the issue with empathy). The point I’m trying to make is, it is not a one-size fits all. The landscape of the community will have an impact on the COC which should be a living document as the community grows. 🙂
* Wolfgang Lukas: Adding to @Sara and related to @Kate and @Tiago: I wonder if rather than thinking of “enforcing” principles, values, codes of conduct, etc., we may emphasize “enacting” them: both in the sense of “putting them into action/practice in ourselves” (being the change, walking the talk) and in the sense of “enaction” as e.g. put forth by Francisco Varela and others: co-creating meaning. It’s a bit difficult to operationalize but can be guided by values/intentions/attitudes such as “kindness” (thanks Sara!) / benevolence, generosity, compassion etc. - so these values, CoC, etc. neither become a boilerplate/token thingy, nor a tool for attacking each other. (Sorry for my rather convoluted expression of this!)
* Sara: With he Opencider community we realised for LatinAmerica telegram works best, for Africa, Facebook is more a thing, and for many others, Slack and/or element. The solution was bridging between as many as possible channels to collate the conversation

## 📝 Notes and comments by attendees

* Humberto: Concern - accessibility and human rights in science and education.
* Kate: Concerns - respect for decision making in open research. Informing funding for enabling research.
* Tiago: work with many communities, as leader, organiser, contributor
* Melissa: working in numpy and python, received funding to improve EDI efforts in these communities
* Positioning their definition of openness:
* Kate: It means that information or events are discoverable or find double that people can actually attend or participate in whatever events are happening, or Be able to use whatever information they've
 been able to find.
* Tiago: human right of accessing knowledge and doing open research open data, it's trying to ensure that this right, have equal access to knowledge is something that is, not only in theory, but in practice.
* Humberto: Quoting UNESCO document of open science - movements and practices surrounding sensitive knowledge to make it accessible available reproducible fair and equal, it has a lot of aspects of it but I like the, the one or the combination of inclusive approaches
* Melissa: openness is an invitation to participate and support to be able to participate more than access - Inclusion more than access.
* Emmy: there is alignment of these terms, yet there are layers of knowledge.
* What is closed?
* People can't just join project, challenges of working in open, public and making mistakes are imminent
* There is a steep learning curve when people can get involved.
* You need training, support and resources to understand the process and truly feel empowered to participate
* We have to learn to balance Openness against rights to privacy, policy
* There is some sense of privilege given to certain people (careerwise, socio-technical situation) to do things openly
* How do we make decision as an organisation: for example, what does participation mean to everyone, what gets merged, what contribution is counted?
* In many communities, decision making is not dicussed openly, that leads people away
* Discussion on "as open as possible"
* How to manage information aroung IP, indigenous knowledge, endangered species
* Common kowledge and common culture:
* People tend to repeat "power culture" - they learn what they see and that can often minimise the local context
* There is a certain culture around. Open Science communities and how they're supposed to be done. That is also very excluding to some groups of people, and. And so, I wonder, you know, if, if we're sort of stepping on our toes here and, and not doing the thing that we actually want to do which is perhaps what's the other said, just to for people to feel like they can have their own path and shape the way that they want to do science and research or just be in the way that they feel most comfortable.

* Need of infrastructure support (org, govt)
* Incentives for open access/research is minimum in some places - it requires hard work to push for behaviour change and to enhance awareness of open research
* "Science progresses one funeral at a time” [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s\_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s\_principle) Hopefully the new generation including us will change this 🙂
* We need to make sure that our practices match our value
* Make expectation explicit, guidelines for interacting with other people, policy should be encforced
* open parctices act as ripple effect - if funders say that they have open mandates for publication, it nudges researchers, that nudges their collaborators, and the next group
* Balancing the action of opening space
* The open hardware discussion reminded me of [https://opentrons.com/](https://opentrons.com/) which has an open hardware model and is having commercial success
* Virtual doesn't mean accessible for everyone.

## 📢 Who should we feature/invite in the next session?

(This could be you, someone you admire, a project that you are proud of or a group/topic that could be useful to highlight)

* Translation process to make research and data science truly global: Batool Almarzouq, Alejandro Coca, Camila Rangel Smith, Anelda van der Walt, People from the Carpentries Japanese team, Masekhane - [https://www.masakhane.io]([]https://www.masakhane.io[]) , Wendi Bacon

### Useful links

* *Couldn’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us: *[http://bit.ly/turingway](*http://bit.ly/turingway*)
* Shared notes for collaboration cafes: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe)
* Weekly coworking calls: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call)
* The Turing Way GitHub repository: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way)
* All about online Collaboration Cafes
* Turing Way calendar: [https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ](https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ)
* Contribution guidelines: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md)
* Join us on Slack: [https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack](https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack)
* Join the mailing list: [https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay](https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay)

License: CC BY 4.0, *The Turing Way*, 2021

## Archive: 22 October 2021

The Turing Way Fireside Chat
============================

Short link to this Etherpad: [https://bit.ly/ttw-fireside-chat](https://bit.ly/ttw-fireside-chat)

- **Date:** 22 October 2021
- **Time:** 13:00 - 14:00 UTC/14:00 - 15:00 London time (in your time zone: [https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2021-10-22/14:00)](https://arewemeetingyet.com/london/2021-10-22/14:00))
- **Who should join?** **_Everyone_** _interested in learning more about The Turing Way project, community, and more!_
- **How you can join? Eventbrite page:** [https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-turing-way-fireside-chat-tickets-185011543507](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-turing-way-fireside-chat-tickets-185011543507) <\-\-\- **Please register to receive a Zoom link.**
- _The Zoom's waiting room is enabled. The host of this call will let you in._
- **_All questions, comments, and recommendations are welcome on this Etherpad or on Zoom chat!_**

**The Turing Way Fireside Chat is an informal event series that features people and projects in reproducible research. **

_Thank you for joining us! We’re delighted to have you here._

🔥 About the Fireside Chat event
--------------------------------

At this inaugural event, Cassandra D. Gould van Praag, a contributor and community member of The Turing Way will be joined by the project lead Kirstie Whitaker and senior researcher Malvika Sharan to catalyse informal chat and discussion about The Turing Way's history, vision and goals in the context of research reproducibility. Read more here: [https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-turing-way-fireside-chat-tickets-185011543507](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-turing-way-fireside-chat-tickets-185011543507).

Bring along your tea, coffee, snack and questions about The Turing Way.

_Can’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us:_ [_http://bit.ly/turingway_](http://bit.ly/turingway)

🗣️Welcome!
-----------

**Cass**

- **Please note that this call will be recorded**
- The video will be available on the YouTube channel in the next days: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDxZv5BMzAw0mPobCbMNuA)
- Turn on your webcam if you don’t mind sharing your face (or off if you do!)
- Reminder: **Code of conduct**: [https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html](https://the-turing-way.netlify.app/community-handbook/coc.html)
- If you experience or witness unacceptable behaviour, or have any other concerns, please report it by contacting the project members - Malvika and Kirstie ([e-mail]).
- To report an issue involving one of the organisers, please email one of the members individually ([e-mail], [e-mail])
- We have enabled  the **closed caption (live transcription),** please click on 'cc' at the bottom of your Zoom screen

👋 Icebreaker
-------------

_(Getting to know each other and this Etherpad for collaborative notes)_

**Name / City you are joining from / Social media (if you'd like to connect with others) / What brings you to this event?**

- Cassandra Gould van Praag / Oxford, UK. / twitter@cassgvp / Conencting with you all!
- Kirstie Whitaker / London, UK / t: @kirstie_j / Malvika invited me to tell you all about the origin story of The Turing Way <3
- Malin Sandström (she/her) / Stockholm, Sweden / @msandstr / Curiosity about Turing Way
- Malvika Sharan / Ranchi, India / @malvikasharan / We want to create a space for people who don't have time to connect with The Turing Way in other participatory events to come along and hang out with us! 🌷
- Achintya Rao / Bristol, UK / @RaoOfPhysics / Catching up on recent TTW updates!
- Rachael Pirie / Newcastle, UK / @rachaelpirie203 / find out more about the Turing Way
- Kim Martin / Stellenbosch, South Africa / [www.linkedin.com/in/kimcmartin](http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimcmartin) / Want to learn more about the Turing Way activities and community
- Nadine Spychala / Brighton (UK) / t: @NadineSpychala / find out what the Turing Way exactly is :)
- Jez Cope (he/him) / North Yorkshire, UK / [https://scholar.social/@petrichor](https://scholar.social/@petrichor); 
- Alden Conner (she/her) / London, UK / Learning about the Turing Way
- Arielle Bennett (she/her) / London, UK / tw: @biotechchat / Finding out more about the early days of The Turing Way 
- Sarah Gibson (she/her) / London / gh: @sgibson91, t: @drsarahlgibson / Core contributor here to support folks presenting
- Patricia Herterich (she/her) / Edinburgh, UK / @pherterich / Catching up with the Turing Way again
- Robert Isdell (he/him) / Gloucester Pt, USA / t: @IsdellRobert / Want to learn about the Turing Way
- Steven Kambouris (he/him) / Melbourne, Australia / t: @steve_kambouris / Want to learn more about the Turing Way
- Jeremy Crampton / Newcastle / @jeremycrampton / New fellow here! Interested in connecting with folk & Turing Way
- Caleb Kibet / Nairobi, Kenya / @calkibet / Connect and hear from the awesome panel on the fireside chat. 
- Chris Jochem (he/him) / Southampton, UK / t: @ChrisJochem / Interested to learn more about Turing Way
- Sophia Batchelor / London, UK / t: @brainonsilicon / Here to listen about the Turing Way awesomeness!! 
- Esther Plomp / The Hague, the Netherlands / t: @PhDtoothFAIRy / Happy to hear more from you wonderful people <3
- Amol Prabhu (he/him) / London, UK / Learning about the Turing Way and how I can best contribute! 
- Reshama Shaikh (she/her) / New York, NY  / Learn more about the Turning Way
- Karega Pauline / Nairobi, Kenya/ @KaregaP / To learn more about the Turin way
- Margaret Wanjiku / Nairobi, Kenya / @meg_wanjiku / To learn more about the Turing Way and how I can contribute
- Lena Karvovskaya/ Amsterdam, Netherlands / twitter @langdata / My favourite people all together in one event: how could I miss this?!!!
- Muhammad Radifar (he/him)/ Sleman, Indonesia/ twitter @_radifar/ Very interested in Reproducible Research, I'm working on Workflow Management tool.

⁉ Open Q & A for the event hosts 
---------------------------------

- If you were to start your journey with TTW now, what, if anything would you do differently? 
- When I'm looking at TTW, I got the impression of TTW is Statistic and R-centric. What do you think about this?
- Kirstie: Just in case we don't get to this question - I've also heard that it is too Python centric! So I think that's likely the fact that different parts of the books are written by different people and with different focuses. Definitely a great way to harmonise across languages.
- I'd be curious to know a little more about what you mean by statistic centric - we're aimed at supporting data scientists so we'll have a good amount of statistics in there, but I'm curious to know what you think is \_missing\_ from the over focus on statistics?
- Radif: Yes, one of this assumption is caused by the people in TTW. Also maybe the job vacancies in TTW is require the applicant to have background in stats/data science. Oh I'm a Python programmer BTW :D
- Ah, one more thing. Rmarkdown! this is one of the other reason. I just knew about Rmarkdown thanks to TTW.
- (It may be that there are lots of chapters that don't exist yet!)
- OK, I'll look forward to that :)
- A really specific thing: I think github is an amazing tool for this type of open work but I worry about the de facto monopoly it now has on Open Everything ... and I don't know how to address this worry because it seems like everyone else who shares this worry also has that techbro mindset of valorising tools that are difficult to use, so I guess my question is how can we diversify the tools that people use without making it into a big "you should suffer for your art" thing? +1
- Kirstie: I think this is a GREAT question. I think this is probably one of the very few decisions that I have made that isn't "boiling the ocean" - we could mirror to GitLab?? We could have multiple options?? That would be too much work at this point.
- I have said to Malvika before that I think there will be a moment when the community says: We need to switch away from GitHub. When we hit that moment then we'll switch.
- I like GitHub because that's where the majority of projects are.... but at some point we're going to need to take responsiblity (and the hit on discoverability) and follow our values. I don't know when to time that.... but the conversation needs to keep happening :) 
- Meta Q: Will this Etherpad be archived and if so could you link to the archived version from the YouTube video when up?
- Kirstie: Probably not with the names? But hopefully with the questions?
- That would be ace! :) – Achintya

📝 Notes and comments by attendees
----------------------------------

📢 Who should we feature/invite in the next session?
----------------------------------------------------

(This could be you, someone you admire, a project that you are proud of or a group/topic that could be useful to highlight)

- Jessica Nash, Education Lead @MOLSSI
- Lou Woodley, director of Center for Scientifc Communication and Community Engagement (CSCCE)
- Jon Chadfield from United Tech & Allied Workers [https://utaw.tech/about](https://utaw.tech/about)

### Useful links

- _Couldn’t join this event but want to get involved? Check out other ways of connecting with us:_ [_http://bit.ly/turingway_](http://bit.ly/turingway)
- Shared notes for collaboration cafes: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/collaboration-cafe)
- Weekly coworking calls: [https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call](https://hackmd.io/@turingway/coworking-call)
- The Turing Way GitHub repository: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way)
- All about online Collaboration Cafes
- Turing Way calendar: [https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ](https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=dGhldHVyaW5nd2F5QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ)
- Contribution guidelines: [https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md](https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/the-turing-way/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md)
- Join us on Slack: [https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack](https://tinyurl.com/jointuringwayslack)
- Join the mailing list: [https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay](https://tinyletter.com/TuringWay)

Feedback
--------

What worked?
- Loved the informal chatting!

What didn’t work?
- Not sure, if I missed it - I was missing a couple of sentences about what the TW book concretely is about, maybe outline the chapters or something like that (but I caught up by quickly looking at the github repo ;))

What would you change?
- Would encourage more introductions of the attendees 

What surprised you?
- How entertaining it was, it didn't feel like an hour

Reference: Open leadership Framework, Mozilla Open Leaders and Open Life Science, 

License: CC BY 4.0, _The Turing Way_, 2021