# OPEN STRAATBEELDEN

###### tags: `open streetview`

## Opinion piece

Live at: https://openstreetmap.be/nl/2019/09/27/streetview.html

* Why street level imagery matters and why it should be open
* What could happen now, and why it shouldn't happen. Outline the alternative
* What Mapillary can do
* What OpenStreetMap can do
* train the picture takes
* imagined flow: civil servant takes a picture of a new situation. Can be used for communication/websites. Can be monitored by OSM people who then map it straight away
* Call to action:
* talk to us
* talk to decision makers: split up data collection and services!
* Link to project page with details about our role and Mapillary

### Basics
https://www.mapillary.com/legal
https://help.mapillary.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004740291-Mapillary-for-Organizations

### Questions, but mostly they will turn up discussing the scenario's
* Amsterdam is not doing updates anymore. What happened? Project: https://www.amsterdam.nl/stelselpedia/panorama-index/producten/).
* what about "mapillary for drivers"?
* is mapillary interested in actually shooting imagery?
* Mapillary is already on the radar. Would you like to be invited to some of the working groups? How actively are you persuing this market?

## More on how Mapillary can win / how we can convince local gov

Unique selling proposition:
* you comply with het Vlaamse Open Data Charter
* you can use it for free for all your CC-BY-SA4.0 datasets. So: for municipal projects, you can use it if you just pick the right license. NOTE: we believe this should be extended to data under the Flemish Open Data License
* everything you contribute also helps others. Everything others contribute also helps you (note: what is fee for re-use? Can it be waived under certain circumstances?)
* you can easily do updates with your own employees or even citizens

## Our vision

* We / the Flemish government used to have a closed solution. High quality imagery, with a single service provider, ownership of the imagery by the same service provider, no access for regular people
* This solution was very high quality
* Assumption:
* Smaller municipalities do not need this level of quality
* Municipalities have enough people in the streets to collect data
* GIS departments are underfunded, leaving civil servants to fend for themselves and willing to consider open alternatives to "professional solutions"
* Bigger municipalities have big budgets and do need very high quality and GIS-people approved solutions

### Minimum scenario

Governments pay professionals to shoot imagery. They make sure they OWN the imagery.
They make it available to people who can guarantuee privacy-friendly redistribution (or probably: they censor the imagery and distribute that)
NOTE: From there they can be redistributed to anyone under the Flemish Open Data License

Notes:
* Mapillary role
* image user
* service provider for censoring images (deal!)
* might be fastest player to have a good covarage, hence more clients
* OSM role
* influencing campaign to make sure this minimum is built into any "collectieve aanbestedingen" that are in the works

### Extended minimum

Same as above, but create a shared platform for funding the actual taking of images
Members of the platform:
* *must* share their imagery
* *can* use the imagery of all the platform users. Preferably for anything, *minimum* for Flemish Open Data Licensed datasets
To avoid free-riding: maybe only allow the use of 10 times as many images as the ones you have provided yourself

Notes:
* Mapillary can be the broker, hence easier to get to next service level
* Mapillary could possibly extend to LIDAR hosting and imagery/LIDAR data collection
* Extra service: bulk data service (download server, snail mail at cost) of censored data

### Low cost solution with paid OSM volunteers

Low cost solution with these services:
* censored imagery remains available under Flemish Open Data License under privacy-guarantuee. Maybe with ODbL-clause: data derived from the imagery must have an open license > so an open market for service providers, with some limitations
* all images are uploaded to Mapillary
* training to help clients learn to help themselves

OSMbe(/OKBE?) provide extra services:
- camera + 1000 euro
- workshop on how to use the app, the mapillary app, OSM mapping tools
- one day of mapping
- camera + X euro
- same + minimum of X km of roads mapped
- Y euro
- same + guaranteed coverage of all roads at a rate of X euro per KM > note: accept clients under the condition that we can manage it!

## The competition

* All try to offer some sort of measuring tool
* All are based on "we shoot images, you pay for access & services"

* Airplane based: http://plan3d.be/
* Image-V: selling access to out-dated images and asking money to shoot new images
* Cyclomedia: StreetSmart product, basically a clone of the above

### Vragen/bedenkingen (input Tim)

* Licentie: zegen of struikelblok?
> Als de licentie expliciet OSM toestemming geeft zonder algemeen open te zijn, snijdt dat aan twee kanten:
> 1) De data die we bijdragen is niet algemeen open, wat bij sommige gebruikers moeilijk ligt
> 2) OpenStreetMap fungeert als HET doorgeefluik tussen Mapillary-data en 'open databronnen', wat ook impliceert dat de info ook MOET in OSM gebracht worden, wat dus ook voor OSM meerwaarde biedt.
>
> Bij uitbreiding: wat valt onder 'open' licenties? Enkel de beelden, of ook de afgeleide data? En kan die volledig automatisch gefilterd worden, of is dat 'on demand' met manuele interactie door Mapillary staff?

* Devices: wat kan ter beschikking komen?
> Nu vraag ingediend voor een BlackVue dashcam. Kan centraal bij mij bijgehouden worden, maar ook uitgeleend aan anderen in de buurt (s8evq, pieter, jakka, zors? ...). Ik kan die ook meegegeven met onze landmeter als die op terrein moet.
Welke tegenprestatie wordt verwacht?

* Mapillary als alternatief naar besturen:
> - In welke mate is licentie 'onderhandelbaar?'
> - Welke garanties kan Mapillary bieden over beschikbaarheid van de data?
> - In welke mate komt 'Mapillary for drivers' in beeld, en hoe is het financiële luik daarbij?
> - Hoe (en met welk ambitieniveau?) wordt er gepitched naar besturen toe?
> - Hoe doet Mapillary aan kwaliteitsborging? (wazige foto's, ondersteboven, te donker, .... )
> - Hoe beperkend is het gegeven dat er standaard geen 'zijwaartse' beelden zijn, maar enkel 'vooruit?'
Data met Lidar-puntenwolken? Nu is de richting van de foto al vaak incorrect bij losse afbeeldingen...

* Hoe zien zij de commerciële kant?
> Huidige stap is vooral zorgen voor tonnen beeldmateriaal voor 'trainen' detectie-algoritmes. Maar welk commercieel eind-product hebben ze voor ogen, en hoe willen ze dat gaan marketen?
>'Full option' - cfr huidige speler 'image-v' (THV tussen Teccon en Sweco) met 360° en Lidar-puntenwolk, of 'low-cost maar dan ook met wat beperkingen'(enkel beelden vooruit) ?

* Professionalisme
> Grootste 'hangijzer' richting pitchen naar overheden lijkt me het kwaliteitsniveau. Er is precedent met zeer rijke en kwalitatieve data.. ze is gewoon gedateerd ondertussen. Nu kan je daar proberen inzetten op dekking, maar die dekking vereist ook een zeker kwaliteitsniveau. Blijft het ambitieniveau 'amateurs' (wat we met z'n allen toch nog zijn), of is het de bedoeling effectief grootschalig geroutineerde, betaalde mensen te gaan inzetten? De oude wijsheid blijft dan ook van kracht: 'if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys'. Ik mag dan wel al blij zijn als ik 'peanuts' krijg, maar of je daarmee een voldoende omvangrijke basis 'fotografen' kan opbouwen?
>

Ter duiding:
https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/mobilemapping/documenten/infosessie%20360-beeldendatabank%20vlaanderen_informatie%20vlaanderen.pdf
(om een beeld te geven wat de 'concurrentie' is!)

### input Seppe

* Would this be an option for preprocessing (especially blurring) before putting the images open and uploading them to Mapillary? https://amsterdam.github.io/projects/open-panorama/
* Is Mapillary interested in LIDAR data?
* How does Mapillary handle huge datasets (e.g. 360° pictures of a whole town/city)?

## Answered questioned

* What is a Mapillary Organization?
* Can a Mapillary Organization contain many organizations?
* NO

* Is it correct that Mapillary images can only be used for CC-BY 4.0 datasets (even in case of, for example, maintaining existing address datasets).
* Yup
* I guess a municipality could accept sharing data under CC BY_SA 4.0. However, a lot of local geodata is collected through Flemish infrastructure and that is released under "the Flemish open data license". This is very unlikely to change. The Flemish open data license does not have a SA clause: you can perfectly make commercial and closed solutions built on this data (as long as you make an effort to say something about the source).*

## Mapillary 1st talk notes

* Madelen: commercial contact for cities
* GDPR issues have been investigated:
* upload=making copy > makes it Mapillary responsibility
* making images = legitimite use
* standalone anonymisation:
* free sharing back if it is shared with mapillary
* public hosting is free
* private hosting is paid

# Notes from osm board meeting

* the win for mapillary
* sell traffic sign data
* privay safe blurring