Community Call 2022.10.03

# Community Call 2022.10.03 Question Time post via: https://forums.manifoldfinance.com/t/community-call-questions-for-october-1st-2022/398/10 Last updated: Sun Oct 2 17:31:27 PDT 2022 Sun Oct 2 17:24:30 PDT 2022 Sun Oct 2 16:20:14 PDT 2022 - [Community Call 2022.10.03](#community-call-20221003) * [Disclaimer: NO FINANCIAL ADVICE](#disclaimer--no-financial-advice) * [Motivation](#motivation) * [Core Subsystems](#core-subsystems) + [Fee Types](#fee-types) * [Network Subsystems](#network-subsystems) * [Question Time](#question-time) + [From Mr. Brown](#from-mr-brown) + [from: RAWDOGDEAL](#from--rawdogdeal) + [from VHFAN](#from-vhfan) - [Public Dashboards](#public-dashboards) + [from RANDOMISHWALK](#from-randomishwalk) - [centralizing forces and risks?](#centralizing-forces-and-risks-) - [Metamask and Infura?](#metamask-and-infura-) - [Internet Infrastructure as a weapon/enforcement of Sanctions?](#internet-infrastructure-as-a-weapon-enforcement-of-sanctions-) - [Long Term Vision?](#long-term-vision-) - [MEV Economics and 'Fair Ordering'](#mev-economics-and--fair-ordering-) - [MEV Smoothin](#mev-smoothin) - [Post MEV Boost era?](#post-mev-boost-era-) - [Community engagement](#community-engagement) For Roadmap suggestions see: https://roadmap.manifoldfinance.com ## Disclaimer: NO FINANCIAL ADVICE The Information on this post is provided for education and informational purposes only, without any express or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or fitness for any particular purpose. The Information contained in or provided from or through this post/application/website is not intended to be and does not constitute financial advice, investment advice, trading advice or any other advice. The Information on this post/application/website and provided from or through this service is general in nature and is not specific to you the User or anyone else. You should not make any decision, financial, investment, trading or otherwise, based on any of the information presented on this website without undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional broker or financial advisory. ## Motivation The purposes of this document is to provide a design overview of Manifold Finance's *Sub Systems*. Subsystems are a 'collection of services that are viable'. Viable means that these services are production ready. ## Core Subsystems The core subsystems are: SecureRpc Relay Service Virtual Mempool Applications, like OpenMEV, are built on these core subsystems. Below is a diaramg expanding on the SecureRpc subsystem, detailing touchpoints such as fee generation opportunities and interfaces for 3rd parties to interact with (integrations). ![](https://d.pr/i/PaQ7t0.jpeg) ### Fee Types relay operations building operations blockspace capacity sales fees from lending fees from staking fees from LPing one time payments fees from runnin validators fees from owned protocol fees from external protocols ## Network Subsystems The core subsystems by themselves do not provide end to end connectivity or service availability. For such data availability requirements the Network Subsystem. > Note: Backbone is the 'Switchboard' system that we are re-implementing into the existing Backbone system, as it makes more sense to have these coupled together. > ![](https://d.pr/i/VsxdOs.jpeg) ## Question Time Question Time (F.K.A Community Call) are questions asked on the forums. Questions that receive a `No Comment` can be re-asked with more specific terms. Generally questions that are asked that are 'propreitary' fall under exclusion for answering due to the nature of orginizational planning: When we give answers to these questions there is an implicit expectation that these will be realized, however this hinders agility and flexibility. We are not wanting to produce or otherwise imply any sort of expecations from said answers. ### From Mr. Brown Q. Can you give your vision in detail of how Fold will utilize restaking? A. Yes go read the working group docs, will update this comment with links Q. Are you planning on using Eigenlayer? What service are you planning on providing? A. No comment Q. You mentioned secureRPC has better settlement times than other relayers. Is this still true after the merge? A. Yes. Q. Can you quantify how much better the settlement times are? A. We quantify this by calculating the liquidity adjusted arrival price for similar transactions settled by other block builders/realyers Q. How are you planning on utilizing the latest fundraising round? To what parts of the project will the money go, in what percentages? (rough estimate is fine) A. No comment ### from: RAWDOGDEAL Wanna congratulate Manifold team on hitting it’s objectives & being laser focused on it’s tasks at hand. Some questions which the community members are wondering are, Q Are we gonna monetize the MEV-Boost Relays/builder revenue? If so, any clarification on this topic would be immensely helpful. This is planned, but lets not kill the golden goose yet. Q. Can we get some sort of Contest going on twitter or other social platforms to create awareness about SecureRPC relay, perhaps meme contest regarding our super duper awesome relay. (Pss can’t do it on telegram because of media upload restriction there) we are hiring a psychologist to be in charge of such things. Sam, you have expressed you concern regarding MEVBoost(dot)org on their metrics, I think it would be great opportunity to create our own site with accurate information, tutorials on how to use SecureRPC relay, connecting relay to validators, different relay FAQs etc. Yes we are working on upradin the metrics from Grafana. Grafan 9.1 supports public dashboards, that will help with this. Q: Can we create a sort of Index or “everything at a glance” situtation with our tutorials, faqs, medium articles, useful twitter thread, roadmaps, staking tutorial etc. It can be at times hectic (not trying to shame, not my intention) to navigate when linking information to newcomers, as some of the things are spread on Github, forum tutorials, telegram (community calls, useful info etc) and website. Maybe get community members involved? perhaps a payroll situtation? ~~No.~~ I incorrectly said 'No' initally, this is not true. We are working on providing a dashboard overview for public consumption that provides a birds eye view. As for making a list of documentation links, we want to aggreate everything in the Knowledge base. Please make an issue on the forums detailin what you would like this to have ### from VHFAN Q. After sushiguard, are there other integrations of Openmev in the works? If so, which one(s) and roughly when can we expect those? A. Yes, we are working for this post-Devcon bogota Q. How will block building generate revenue for fold stakers? And do you have any idea how much those revenues will be (for instance, per block)? A. We do not plan on monetizing block building but rather applications built ontop of this such as OpenMev v2. However that is the long run perspective, short run will see surplus generated and returned to v2 staking. v1 staking will see some rewards until v2 launches after which v1 will no longer be supported. Q. When can we expect revenue from block building for Fold stakers? Is it already generating revenue? A. We expect starting in October. Q. The last time (July I believe) staking payout was put to vote. I assume we don’t get anymore subsidised payouts after that one (so nothing for August and September). Is that correct? A. This is correct, though anyone may propose an alternative Q In the light of Sam’s latest updates we seem to have a little shadow war going on with flashbots, as long as our products deliver higher value word should spread but is there any other way we intend to combat this kind of misinformation? Especially considering the reluctance to spend money on marketing? I see Sam commenting in Twitter that some post include wrong information but I don’t always see follow-up or explanation why. I get the Chad meme “Says your information is wrong. Refuses to elaborate. Leaves.” but that only gets us so far. A: I have followed up individual with those projects/sites that have the information. The details are relevant to how we pass back feeReceipent. #### Public Dashboards This is finally a feature production ready in 9.1 - we have waited awhile for this finally. grafana.com/blog/2022/08/17/new-in-grafana-9.1-share-your-grafana-dashboard-with-anyone-via-public-dashboards - APM Monitoring of the clusters grafana.com/docs/tempo/latest/metrics-generator/app-performance-mgmt/?pg=blog&plcmt=body-txt - Service Accounts grafana.com/blog/2022/08/24/new-in-grafana-9.1-service-accounts-are-now-ga Could we use this to provide access to data to end users? - Docker Integration grafana.com/blog/2022/08/10/the-updated-docker-integration-in-grafana-cloud-now-supports-logs-and-metrics grafana.com/docs/agent/latest/configuration/integrations/cadvisor-config/?pg=blog&plcmt=body-txt - Grafana OnCall This is a new offering , see grafana/oncall Additionally, persisting the dashboards, etc, is necessary, we did not do that the first go around (which is fine). As for Grafana OnCall, this or a system similar has to be implemented vs the current ad-hoc slack notifications and external status page alerts. We also need someone in non-EU timezone for coverage, etc. ### from RANDOMISHWALK #### centralizing forces and risks? Q. What potentially dangerous and centralizing forces do you see today across the Ethereum ecosystem, including the roles of builders, staking pools, and existing “defaults” (i.e. MEV-boost defaulting effectively to certain relays, Metamask as de-facto default wallet, Infura as default RPC, soft censorship of dissenting POVs / opinions within the broader MEV community etc)? #### Metamask and Infura? A. We are in talks with Metamask as to how best approach this, there will be no defactor prefered relay as our understanding of the teams alleged wishes. They are also talkin to FB of course. #### Internet Infrastructure as a weapon/enforcement of Sanctions? A. The impending escalation of further weaponizing internet infrastructure Additionally here is a section from our internal discussions on the issues concerning censorship: Recently this working paper signed by a wide spectrum of key organizations responsible for maintaining portions of the internet was published. It lays out the future groundwork needed for global inter-jurisditional enforcement of sanctions at the global BGP routing level. Below is selected quotes (emphasis mine) of the conclusion of which actions to take in the future and the proof of supporting such actions: > We believe the time is right for the formation of a new, minimal, multistakeholder mechanism, similar in scale to NSP-Sec or Outages, **which after due process and consensus would publish sanctioned IP addresses and domain names in the form of public data feeds in standard forms** (BGP and RPZ), to be consumed by any organization that chooses to subscribe to the principles and their outcome. > > We call upon our colleagues to participate in a multistakeholder deliberation using the mechanism outlined above, to decide whether the IP addresses and domain names of the Russian military and its propaganda organs should be sanctioned, **and to lay the groundwork for timely decisions of similar gravity and urgency in the future.** ![](https://d.pr/i/8dbhAo.jpeg) https://www.pch.net/resources/Papers/Multistakeholder-Imposition-of-Internet-Sanctions.pdf The two key forms of enforcing such global censorship are identified to be: - Blocklisting - Revocation of certificates associated with domain names Additionally, here is a post on legal issues: https://hackmd.io/@sbacha/legal-safu #### Long Term Vision? Q. What do you envision to be the long-term role of Manifold within Ethereum? What’s the long-term ambition here? A.** Connect all the worlds Capital.** Capital is always wanting to be free of itself, meaning it wishes to be liquid. We want to provide it the manifolds to do this. #### MEV Economics and 'Fair Ordering' Q. Where do you expect the split of MEV economics to settle in equilibrium between searchers/builders/proposers? Are there other relevant parties that you think could conceivably have a claim on those economics? A. We reject the notion of PBS as a fundamental defacto equilibria. It may be more appropriate to say it is asymptotically approaching Fair ordering, threshold sig commit-reveal schemes and various other MEV-minimization tactics that others are exploring: what are your thoughts on these? Is MEV truly “unavoidable” in any system that has ordering and where economically-motivated actors have time preferences? It is pointless to ask what corresponds to someone's intuition of what fairness means. We are concerned with specifying systems, not reading people's minds. The concept of fairness in this context has been discussed since the 70s. In 1986 Nissim Francez published a book titled "Fairness". In formal semeantics there are specification methods that have been proposed that enable you to write a spec with a next-state relation as the disjunction of a particular set of (named) actions. Some of them can specify liveness with fairness conditions on those particular actions. However most of the seen proposals rely on abusrd rational agent theories, such as the chain having only one AMM venue. In all cases it can be inferred that the presence of any said solution without 100% usage would enable some MEV by the usage of arbitrage from those using the service and those not using said service. #### MEV Smoothin Q. MEV smoothing - do you think it is likely this is implemented in some way, either via staking pools (or meta-pools)? Could MEV-smoothing introduce adverse selection / moral hazard issues at any point in the block building supply chain? A. Rocket pool is doing something like this I belive. See recent work from Tarun et al from Gaunlet Network #### Post MEV Boost era? Q. Post MEV-boost (and later PBS), what novel additional roles can the wallet serve in the block building supply chain? A. We are auditing a system design right now, see this outline for more info https://hackmd.io/@sbacha/feib01 Q. Echoing @MrBrown’s question: EigenLayer / Sreeram Kannan have popularized this notion of “re-staking”; do we plan to participate in this in some way, and if so what’s possible? A. OpenMEV v2 already did a PoC of such slashing mechanisms way back in May via the zk-RLN membership gateway see https://publish.obsidian.md/manifold/OpenMEV-RLN/zkRLN+RPC+Gateway+-+The+New+OpenMEV+Gateway #### Community engagement Q. How should the community here best engage and push Manifold along while not interfering with work? A. Figure it out. Reach out to me (@sambacha on telegram) if you need a bit of help or questions.