---
# System prepended metadata

title: Nouner Deep Dive

---

# Nouner Deep Dive



### Shortlist of discussion topics
- Public Goods funding
- Protocol vs Organisation
- Pods — Why are they good for daos?
- Looking back at past proposals, what do we want more of?
- Builder accountability (see week 41 call for details)
- *[Add new items here]*

---

## Call of Week 42
Scheduled time: TBD


### Agenda
- Nouns after shutdown of official server



## Call of Week 41

### Agenda for 10/13/2022
Scheduled time: 
Sydney 8am
Paris 11pm
NYC 5pm
SF 2pm

## DAO Expectations: Keeping the DAO and builders accountable
*Scaling the DAO faster by publicly communicating a set of guidelines between the DAO and builders*


As the DAO grows, we need to do a better job of communicating what we expect from builders in order to keep moving quickly. This is especially relevant as we move into pods, and the pod organizers themselves have to interface between the DAO and their respective pod builders.

### Topics:

**1. Accountability from builders**
- What do we expect when props fail or underdeliver?
- “Failure is OK, lack of accountability is not”
- How does Nouns fund ambitious proposals and hold builders accountable to results?

**2. Accountability from the DAO**
- Is it clear what the DAO will or will not fund?
- RFS (request for startups)
- Preferred funding structures? Lump sum vs streams.
- Follow-on funding?
- Path from NSFW -> Prop House -> On-Chain Prop

**3. Standardize requirements for dev projects?**
- Having a dev committee overlooking development?
- Frameworks/components?
- Open source requirement?

**4. Pod structure**
- We're using the term "pod" very loosely right now
- Best practices
- Builders rolling up to pods, pods rolling up to DAO

**5. Measuring results - How do we become a data-driven community?**
- Consensus on key metrics for DAO
- Data visualisation for nouns.wtf?

**6. Building internal infra vs marketing**
- Building our internal infrastructure for scaling the DAO (vs other types of marketing-like spend and proliferation)

**7. Expectations around “Nouns-native VC funding”, what does it look like?**
- Should we fund startups?
- Funding for-profit orgs vs public goods

---
### Meeting notes for 10/13/2022
**Attendees:**
B, Goldy, Jarmen, Juan, Krel, Niftynaut, Samellis, Wiz, Yitong, 0xHindsight, O_gosh, 142, *(Others floated in and out)*

*(Call was not recorded, as Roko was not allowed into the channel)*

 We focused majority of our time on topic #2 - Accountability from the DAO

**Topic #2 - Accountability from the DAO:**
* Yitong provided feeback from his current prop experience
* He received conflicting "guidance" from multiple sources
* As the first to go through this process, he has been reached out to by other PH builders/winners (e.g. Pronouns)
* Are there guidelines the DAO can give to dev groups to navigate the process?
* What are expectations around "contentious" props? Should they be pulled down and re-worked?
* The DAO seems to have a preference for stream payment over lump sums, but has this been codified? Nounish was pointed out as a good example for this.
* Does a project have to be open source or CC0?
* Would a "recommendations" document be helpful here? Less specific than a RFS document, this would be the DAO communicating preferences for specific categories.
* We would want to keep it soft, not hard, so as not to stifle
* Precursor to a bigger RFS document
* 
* **Takeaway/Action Item: Start putting together a "recommendations" document that can be posted on Nouns.wtf or Nouns.center to help guide builders.**
* *People on this item: B, Krel, Sam, Juan*

**Other accountability topics:**
- Started discussion on topic #4, Pod structure, to be continued next week
- Inline with DAO expectations, how do we measure ROI from funded initiatives?

**Discussion around a womens channel:**
- There was a brief discussion had around this interaction in the nouner-general channel
- A sense that perhaps there was mis-communication / kneejerk reactions to the request
- Although some members on the call still expressed reservations, the group felt it merited further dialogue
- One idea floated was to update the "International" section of Discord into an affinity section, where a women's group channel could reside along other affinity channels

## Call of Week 40
*EU/APAC timezone.*

**Agenda:**
- How to scale coordination of the Deep Dive call?
- Juicy proposals
    - Agora cont
    - Heyanoun


## Call of Week 39
*Skipped this week.*



## Call of Week 38
***September 21** — 8pm CET / 2pm Eastern / 11am Pacific*

### Agenda

* **Governance participation rate**
    * Are we happy with today's rate?
    * What's a desired rate?
        * For DAO security
        * Culturally
    * What are good ways to increase participation?
        * (eg delegation vs shifting governance downstream?)
    * How can we combat voter fatigue?
    * Let's brainstorm initiatives we could try to increase participation
        * (eg incentivize "vote hunting", launch a "bid and delegate" flow)


### Call notes
- Roko recording available



## Call of Week 37
*September 14, 08:00 PM CET*

### Agenda
This week we're trying something new and want to dedicate the entire call to a single topic:

- DAO Security — Nouns Governance Research by David and Elad
    - https://verbs.notion.site/Nouns-Governance-Research-2022-Fall-8b16ed324a50425db99cf28f53ea74d0

### Call notes
- 

## Call of Week 36
*September 7, 08:00 PM CET*

### Agenda
* **Open Proposals**
    * Mucho Love 4 Month Extension
        * https://nouns.wtf/vote/137

* **Discussion topics**
    * Noundry compensation prop
        * Recap TownHall sentiment — anything to add?
    * Devcon
        * Do we want to ensure some footprint there? if so, plan some next steps (Love Will's proposal, but don't think we can expect it to impact Devcon)
    * Stablecoin payments configuration
        * **tentative suggestion:**
            token: USDC
            baseline position: $1M
            max slippage: 1.5% (admin will optimize starting at 0% and moving up)
            admin: tech pod multisig
    * Dynamic Quorum (quick update)
    * Funding public goods
        *  How to refine this experiment? Define success and brainstorm how to get this to work (specifically an Ethereum public good)
        *  Hyperstructures
        *  Nouns Public initiative by noun40
            *  Summary: https://hackmd.io/nMxKxvajTZmmCXda6-gF9A
    * Governance participation rate
        * Do we want to increase it? How?
    * Making sense of [internet games](https://nouns.wtf/vote/138)

### Call notes
Rough notes: https://hackmd.io/@krel/By6tTULlj



## Call of Week 35
*August 31, 08:00 PM CET*

### Agenda
* **Proposals**
    * Open/pending
        * *None this week*
    * From Discourse
        * Xanadu/Blu prop (https://discourse.nouns.wtf/t/xanadu-x-nouns-mega-episode-real-time-nouns-world-toolkit/2156)
        * [add here]

* **Discussion topics**
    * Devcon 
    * Dynamic Quorum
        * Optimize for high consensus vs ambiguity?
        * More context in [this post](https://mirror.xyz/0x10072dfc23771101dC042fD0014f263316a6E400/96zSoFfiT_RM2o2P9UbVKxPzVpB_trZqUjzllBE00BE)
    * Funding public goods
        *  How to refine this experiment? Define success and brainstorm how to get this to work (specifically an Ethereum public good)
        *  Hyperstructures
        *  Nouns Public initiative by noun40
            *  Summary: https://hackmd.io/nMxKxvajTZmmCXda6-gF9A
    * Governance participation rate
        * Do we want to increase it? How?
    * Noundry compensation prop

*Start from top and work our way down. If we dont have time to exhaust a topic (very likely) we can revisit it on next weeks call. As a rule of thumb, we rather discuss one topic deeply than try to get through all.*


### Call notes
*The call was recorded.*



## Call of Week 34
*August 24, 11:30 AM CET*

### Agenda
* Open proposals
    * 133 SharkLabs -- A nounish incubator by SharkDAO
* Discussion topics
    * State of Nouns governance discourse
        * Whats lacking? How can we improve?
        * What's the role of this call, and is there a void we can fill?
    * Nouns Public by Noun40
        * Note: ran out of time and didnt discuss

### Call notes

#### Shark DAO prop 133

* Feels like 3 props in 1
* Unproven track record for each of the proposed activites
* Needs to start smaller
* Goldy said it well: "they need to imagine themselves being Nouns DAO and try understand what Nouns DAO wants, instead of thinking about what they as builders want."

*Bigger picture on Shark DAO:*
* Is sharkdao not finding a way to get funding to do noun-related stuff? 
    * If they can't, maybe sell a noun and use funds to experiment
* Sharks needs to find their own flywheel to generate funds
    * While the success of lilnouns can be debated, at least to some extent, they are eating Sharkdaos lunch

* Can they define their mission? Can they get funding to proliferate the shark meme? 
    * Would love to see the SharkDAO succeed as OGs and trailblazers
        * SharkDAO historically been very important as a gateway to Nouns
* Should cont talks with Joshua

#### Dopamine prop 132
Reasons for voting against:
* A bit of a low effort attack on the treasury 
    * Dopamine gains more than Nounsdao from this deal — its setup to proliferate Dopamine, not Nouns
* Too close on the heels of Nounsbrand prop 109
    * Disagreement here: "Given quality is high, we should fund dozens of different clothing proposals, doesnt matter when"


#### Dynamic Quorum

* 142 making a strong case that no prop should ever be decided by a majority vote
    * Too easy for whales to game/manipulate/purchase to tip the scales last minute
    * All winning props should be hell-yeah props
    * Counter-argument: We dont yet know what works/will work, if we only pass high-consensus props, we run the risk of overfitting DAO decisions (ie, less open to exploration and serendipity)
* Note: Need to discuss further


#### Audacious proposals
* Call for bolder, bigger proposals 
    * Whats the limiting factors?
        * Must be a clear path to (financial) upside, both in:
            * Salary/comp
                * Sidenote: Salary/retainers can be problematic (nepotism etc) but also serve as a northern start for builders
                    * Working for NounsDAO can be a dream to aspire for
            * Outsized rewards (lifechanging money)
        * Rn the opportunity cost of working for Nouns instead of building a startups is not clear (not in favor of Nouns)


#### Noundry compensation
* We should pay the (winning) artists A LOT
    * Also sprinkle some ETH to submitting artists
* Incentives should be high to bring more awesome artists every year (assuming we do Noundry for each nouniversary)
    * Noundry can be a (vey) strong proliferation mechanism among artists/designers
* Bragging rights + funding
    * Having your art next to gremplin is <3
