---
# System prepended metadata

title: Valee Doppel Commission Details
tags: [' rp', ' matronlyTriggerwoman', commission, ' apsci']

---

---
tags: commission, apsci, rp, matronlyTriggerwoman
---

# Valee Doppel Commission Details
I'll try to break these down into specific points to hit!

## Draft Comments/Edits

### Draft 1
I'm sorry about this being a bit rambly/incoherent - I'm typing this pretty much as soon as I've gotten up, because I don't want to keep you waiting longer. If there's any uncertainty, please feel free to ask questions!

* **Clothing:**
    * **TBD** on this one - I'd like to incorporate some elements from Candeloro's clothing into Mami's, but not overwhelmingly so. I don't know what I'm looking for there yet.
        * *We should probably talk about this one in depth.*
        * I want to incorporate some of that "duchess" vibe that Candeloro has, but also not lose the feel that it's Mami.
        * If you'd like to take a crack at merging those styles yourself, I can give you the references I have for Candeloro's form/clothing~
* **Flower:**
    * Visually, the flower shouldn't be obviously damaged or withered. (Normally I like themes like that! But that's not the goal here.)
        * The unsettling element comes partly from the way it treats Mami, the fact that it's so much bigger, that it has a hold on her, etc...
* **Ribbons/Vines:**
    * The ones hanging down in the back should be thicker and more akin to tassels.
        * That is, they're hanging (mostly) straight down, because they're supporting her, and some are rolling across the ground. (You've already got this in part - I just want the ones in the back, acting as support, to be thicker/wider, but also flat.)
        * I imagine them as being at least as thick as one of Mami's legs.
    * The ribbons are generally flat, which is good!
        * A *little* more organic movement from some of them would be nice. Things like having them coil and curl (a la drills) to form a more tendril-like appearance (or to pierce something)...
        * Remember, thematically, the ribbons are ribbons first - but also vines and tendrils. Things used to grab, tie up, trap - as well as the way a strange being expresses itself.
    * Could you make some of the ribbons gesture alongside Mami? E.g. with her reaching out, some would reach forward as well.
* **Stamen/"Eyes":**
    * While I like how this looks, I'd like there to be more flexibility.
        * What I mean is, I'd like there to either be more stamen with fewer pips/eyes (so they can move around independently), or more stamen with more pips (so it gives the impression of 'seeing' in many different directions).
        * The pips need to be able to move around to indicate where Mami/Candeloro is looking, and able to shift and curl to emulate facial expressions.
            * They often act as the 'eyes' in Mami's facial expressions.
    * If this is too messy/complicated (i.e. there would be too many stamen to look good), the pips could also just float there and move independently, as opposed to being attached to stamen.

## Basics
A summary of body, positioning, etc. The basics of the piece.

### Mami
* **Vibe/Mood:** Warm, welcoming, despite the circumstances; reaching out to people who "just need to be shown how to love". (One way or another.)
    * Inhuman, uncanny, 'too perfect' - akin to a porcelain doll.
    * Mismatched/miscolored pieces a la porcelain from slightly 'wrong' sources (like they're painted subtly different colors, in a sort of patchwork)
        * This effect should be subtle, along the lines of http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/duchessPerpetuity/art/35086221_p0.png
* **Face:** No eyes, and no sockets. She still has a nose, mouth, and other facial features.
* **Mouth:** Set in a warm, gentle, almost loving or dazed smile. Full, feminine lips.
    * This expression might be hard to pull off since she has no eyes - check Candeloro's eye entry for something that might help.
    * If you're not sure how to draw her lips, I'm partial to [Ayanero Taicho's depiction](http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/art/proportions/DjvNCeIUYAALAY3.jpg).
* **Figure:** I have images of this - 
    * Breasts 1: http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/art/proportions/nsfw/55859219_p0.png
    * Breasts 2: http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/art/proportions/nsfw/yande.re_467884_fal_maro_tomoe_mami.jpg
    * Rear: http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/art/proportions/25286615_p0.jpg
    * Corset too~ Thin waist, but not inhumanly so. Thin enough to seem just a bit off, but still attractive. (At most, just a bit inhuman...)
        * The more exaggerated route is admittedly good too - http://refs.indulgen.se/madoka/mami_tomoe/matronlyTriggerwoman/art/proportions/8e89d60cbf6a08fda6975335b0a81891.jpg
* **Left Hand:** Back of her left hand has the spell scars (something I'll cover later), or isn't visible at all.

### Candeloro
* **Position:** Behind Mami, attached to (centered on) her upper back.
* **Eyes:** She doesn't have real 'eyes', but she has little red teardrop-shaped 'pips' sticking out from the center of her flower on small, wispy stalks. (Think stamen.)
    * Mami doesn't have eyes, so she borrows Candeloro's sight. The 'pips' curl, bend, flatten, etc. in a mimicry of human eyes, so (as an example) they might curl up to simulate a smile.
    * These should hover around Mami's head, as in the sketch I linked - like if you drew a circle through all of them, it'd make a 'halo' visible behind her.
* **Petals:** For Candeloro's petals, spread out from her center.
    * Structure is generally akin to [Cattleya mendelii](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Cattleya_mendelii_Orchi_2012-09-14_020.jpg) , but with more petals - the center portion is what connects to Mami's back. (The proportions for that connection are **TBD.**)
    * Yellow, akin to Candeloro's canonical representations, but past that, **TBD.**
    * These are flower petals, and shift slightly like foliage, potentially reflecting Mami's general mood at the moment
    * Visually, these should frame Mami and draw attention to her.
    * Close enough to Mami that it's not possible to easily see how the flower attaches to her. (It's connected to her somewhere on her upper back.)
* **Ribbons:**
    * Pattern: **TBD.**
    * Very emotive, moving akin to tendrils/animated vines, though they're flat ribbons
    * A couple reach from behind Mami, touching, hovering by, or wrapping around parts of her body - the sense for this should be a bit sexual, but not blatantly so. She's not being restrained, but they could close in and do so. Candeloro wants to hold her closer than she already does, even when attached to her.
    * One or two reaches around from behind Mami *without* caressing her, more like questing tendrils than anything else. Slow, pretty, but also like they could lash out, lengthen, and snap something up.
    * More hang down in the back; they hang from the center of the 'flower' in place of a stem. Some, but not all, touch the ground, a few are laid slightly across it.

## Details

### General Details
I'm looking for a 'beautiful, but unsettling' tone here. Despite how unsettling the circumstances are, Mami is *happy* about what's happened. She looks like what's happened feels *good,* despite the fact that her appearance has shifted to be more in line with that of a Witch, and the fact that she almost seems possessed.

### Pose
Ideally the pose is dynamic, but still gives a good view of Mami and Candeloro. It should be at least partly frontward facing, so Mami isn't obscured by the spread of Candeloro's petals.

**I'm not sure how to describe the pose.**
**(find a base pose - one leg down, one off the ground, knee bent; the pose implies that the flower's 'tendrils' hanging down support them both)**

### Mami
General appearance is 'flat' in a way that doesn't quite match up with the world around her. (I compare this to her *visually* having depth, but seeming to be "on a different layer" - like light doesn't fall on her properly, so she seems 'flat' or 'apart from' everything else. It's supposed to be very Witch-y.)

### Candeloro
Generally, themes of beauty alongside sexuality and parasitism. The flower on Mami's back looks like it could pull her back to itself and wrap its petals around her. Its "expressions", as much as a plant can have expressions, tend towards being a little sly or coy - but ultimately they reflect Mami's (somewhat more erratic) mood.


### Working
These are more minor things that can be covered later. Since the point of this piece is partly to give people a reference for what certain unique or infrequently seen elements look like, I'd like to work on them at some point. **Don't worry about them yet.**

* Left-hand spell scars (in fitting with the porcelain theme)
    * These are low-priority, just note that they'd have to be included if the back of her left hand was bear. There isn't a solid visual design yet - **TBD,** if there's time.

#### Kiss
***(TODO: find old descs from when she inflicted it)***
https://canary.discordapp.com/channels/@me/252992585998532609/664116752174546968

```
[5:50 PM]Midna:I think I might want to treat Mami's Kiss as basically being a combination of her command seals and Candeloro's Kiss
[5:50 PM]Midna:Might
[5:51 PM]Midna:That was a rose, basically
[5:51 PM]kentonHR:Hee
[5:51 PM]Midna:But I'm not sure
[5:53 PM]Midna:I think it'd be nice to give form to both of those symbols~
```
```
[11:49 AM]Midna:I'm not really artistically inclined in that regard, but I'd like a rose/flower motif whilst still keeping some of the spidery, almost thorny look...just dulled- hmm.
[11:50 AM]Midna:That's problematic really
[11:50 AM]Midna:Candeloro's Kiss is perfectly fitting for her IMO, not necessarily Mami, but
[11:50 AM]Midna:It's just generally kind of webbed/spidery/refined/ornate and I love that
[11:50 AM]kentonHR:Hee.
[11:50 AM]kentonHR:Just need to start with that as a base, and think of how to exaggerate Mami's unique traits.
[11:51 AM]Midna:So dulling the less pleasant part of that, adding more of a flourish, and spreading some of the sharpness out into something that's still beautiful...or something...
[11:51 AM]kentonHR:Or something.
[11:51 AM]Midna:Basically more curvy/flowing- yes
[11:51 AM]Midna:Or Something
[11:51 AM]kentonHR:Hee
[11:51 AM]Midna:"More curvy" describes Mami in a nutshell
```


**(summon animation sketch: possible almost 'limp, supported by the flower in her back' pose? that look where it almost seems a character is being pulled up by strings in their torso - levitating, legs dangling just off the ground, arms out. find a ref!)**


## References
***Note to myself:*** Certain artists draw Mami in ways I really like. Ayanero Taicho and Toritaku come to mind, but I should look through the art I've given as refs (especially that one sweater one) and point to it as "here, this detail is one I like". Like "the way her lips are drawn here is good", basically.

Suggest a few possible poses, ideally. This ref is supposed to let people see all of her, so different poses might be better or worse for that.

