# [Packaging Summit at EuroPython 2025](https://ep2025.europython.eu/session/packaging-summit)

This document: https://hackmd.io/@jezdez/europython2025-packaging-summit


Discord thread: https://discord.com/channels/1331995051093528636/1394647633095557200


PyCon US 2025 notes: https://hackmd.io/3AUJd0GkRFKHclfzULowTw

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## [PEP 772]: Packaging Council governance (Jannis Leidel)

We have a PEP that defines the governance of PyPA!

[PEP 772]: https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-772-packaging-council-governance-process-round-2/93904/20

* PyPA grew out of the maintainers of the packaging tools of the time.
* Project based so they consulted each other, not make decisions on standards.
* PyPA is more than 100 people now, *but* the CPython core devs needed some decision maker to delegate packaging-related decisions to. We had just one person, Paul Moore, for that role. Wanted to move to a model where we had some redundancy. We needed more voices because of the diversity of the ecosystem. [PEP 772] is about "growing up".

With [PEP 772] we will have a 5 member, elected council.
This allows:
* Faster PEP decisions.
* Clear roadmaps for the future.
* Dedicated funding through the PSF

How it works:
* 5 members, staggered terms so we're only voting on half at a time.
* Elected by PSF members who opt-in
* 2/3 vote can remove another member
* Majority vote, quorum of 3.
* Public logs.

Target: Operational by 2026
* The people that we need to approve this design:
* PSF Board approve membership linkage
* PyPA will vote following PEP 609
* Steering council: Final approval

How to have your voice heard in this process:
* Today: Talk about concerns in the PEP (to )
*
* To vote: [Become PSF member](https://www.python.org/psf/membership/)

### Questions
* How to consolidate the various packaging-related groups? (Packaging WG at PSF, PyPA, etc)? Packaging WG has already agreed. Other groups, we're trying to gather feedback from the stakeholders. There have been three rounds of feedback and revision so far.
* How many in room are voting members? About half raised hands.
* To join, contributing members volunteer 5 hours/month, self-declare. Paid membership $99, or sliding scale to $25.

## [PEP 725]: Specifying external dependencies in pyproject.toml (Carli*)

[PEP 725]: https://peps.python.org/pep-0725/

* Discussion about many related problems:
* [WheelNext](https://wheelnext.dev/)
* Problems with auditwheel
* How all of these interact with system packaging
* How this makes system packaging better if done in specific ways
* [bindep (`bindep.txt`)](https://pypi.org/p/bindep) from openstack
* conda ecosystem
* [pypackaging-native](https://pypackaging-native.github.io/)
* [Pixi](https://pixi.sh/latest/)
* This is the kind of problem where a solution will be rewritten two or more times in backwards incompatible ways before we hit upon something that covers all the usecases.
* How to move conversation around this forward? Talk to the Astral folks on [Discord](https://discord.com/invite/c9MhzV8aU5). Talk to the Linux distros (Fedora packagers will be at EuroPython), they are interested in the PEP.
* Just being able to validate that the packages in installed is useful.
* Just validating has more ways to verify (configure example, doing feature checks) that aren't available to solving the install use case.
* Advice: Try to create a Proof of Concept based around build backends.

# Part II: Unconference

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## Links:

* Packaging Summit at PyCon US 2025: https://hackmd.io/@pradyunsg/pycon2025-packaging-summit
* Discord thread: https://discord.com/channels/1331995051093528636/1394647633095557200