# BayFor Application - Meeting

**Time:** 25.03.2020, 2:30pm
**Place:** Skype
**Participants:** Maya, Steffen, Maxim, Markus

## Questions

- Why BayFor for this application?

> I'm not convinced this is the best funding agency for this project: fund limit of 1M in 3years and the necessity of including an industry partner with a monetization/product strategy. Maybe also the financing quote of 50% (see next point)
>> wish of Prof. Schreiber

**stick to it**

- are 100% of our costs covered or just 50%?

> Frau Schreiber said, our costs are covered 100%
>> Ich weiß aber hier https://forschungsstiftung.de/Artikel/Seite/Hochtechnologien-fuer-das-21-Jahrhundert-Teil-2/72/73.html steht: "Grundsätzlich wird auch im Falle der Grundlagenforschung eine angemessene Eigenbeteiligung vorausgesetzt, so dass die Förderquote in der Regel 50 % der Gesamtkosten des Vorhabens nicht übersteigt." 100% sind zwar möglich ("bis zu 100 % der beihilfefähigen Kosten im Falle von strategisch wichtiger und außergewöhnlicher Grundlagenforschung, die nicht an industrielle und kommerzielle Ziele eines bestimmten Unternehmens geknüpft ist") aber sind wir wirklich sicher, dass das für uns gilt? Denn wir müssen ja genau die komerziellen Ziele auch hervorheben.

**we are still not sure but continue working under the assumption that 100% is covered - otherwise it should be easy to list costs we cover ourselfes, e.g. coils, measurement time, work force**

- is it okay to plan with 800k€ for us and maybe shift some of it to the industry partner?

> I already suggested we provide the potential business partners a very rough outline of the costs and hear what they say

>> Do we provide full calculations ( including positions) or only part which could be splitted with or delegated to the industry partner (pigs, consumables, computation hardware and / or computer time on high performance clasters )?

**wait for response of industry partner(s), Biotronic first**

- do we take real costs calculated by B.D. or the table provided by BayFor?

**use values from BayFor table for now**

- this cost plan also implies: no other academic partners - fine for everyone?

**that's clear**

- can we somehow reduce our costs further? (if we need to)

> When we need to we will have to, what a question …

>> We can/should probably think in advance on the financial positions which could be and, equally important, which could NOT be reduced without making whole project impossible ( “plan A” and “B”). That is in particular:
>> - minimal amount of pigs and costs of the accommodation and handling
>> - minimal duration of staff positions for a) MRI-specialist and b) AI-specialist.

**we should start with the ideal plan (independent of cost limits) and then cut it down as needed**

- our previous pitch was: we already established an animal model, we already established MR methods, now we want to use these two things to train a machine learning model to get medical insights. We need to restructure to: we established animal model and some MR methodology, now we need to expand MR methods (and develop new ones)

> Which ones and what costs derive from it?

>> I thin here we should only take care on the agreement between tasks of the MR-specialist and duration of his/her employment.

to then train a machine learning model to get medical insights. I don't think this is problematic and Prof. Schreiber probably likes it that there is more MR in the application. Do we all agree to this adjusted focus?

**this is agreed**

- what is the involvement of the industry partner?

> Has also already been discussed: provision of event recorders and computer capacities and eventually contribution of intellectual manpower for AI development

>> In case of Siemens this is also know-hows on MR-methodology. By the way, just ofr understanding - event recorders are produced only ny Biotronik ?
In case of partnership with Sieemens they can also provide it or we need to include them into budget ?

- what is the synergy we get with our industry partner?

> Knowledge about product requirements from the market’s point of view by the industrial partner, generating this kind of data by us

>> One could also name it as synergy of “unique know-hows and unique joined infrastructure of UHF MRI with large animal facility” on one hand, and “industrial potential of the partner and expertise in real needs of the industry in terms of experimental data”

- what is the potential product and how will it be monetized?

> Also already discussed: A computer software for cardiologists, distributed as outlined here:
https://www.siemens-healthineers.com/digital-health-solutions/value-themes/artificial-intelligence-in-healthcare

>> Sounds good for the Siemens as cooperation Partner, but will te same work for Biotronic ? Do they have expertise and interest in AI-software solutions in their business ?

- we need to consider the last three questions for both Biotronik and Siemens, this is very important for the application

> See above
>> Danke für die Anmerkungen, ich erinnere mich daran aber das ist noch zu wenig/unspezifisch. Daher die Aufforderung sich zu den Themen bis Mittwoch konkrete Gedanken zu machen.

- can we somehow work on the document collaboratively?

> That's already been decided and I asked for the draft more than once…
>> Es geht darum diese Frage technisch zu lösen! Ich hätte ein Dokument an dem wir alle parallel arbeiten können. Und nicht eine Lösung bei der immer wieder unterschiedlich aktuelle Versionene per Mail verschickt werden während jeder an seinem Dokument arbeitet. Das ginge zum Beispiel (falls zulässig) mit One Drive oder Google Cloud.
>>> SMI: Die MySite, SharePoint und OneDrive in Microsoft Online sind aktuell aus Datenschutzgründen nicht freigegeben und daher innerhalb des Klinikums gesperrt. Bitte nutzen Sie möglichst AirWatch zum Datenaustausch.
https://intranet.ukw.de/GB-St/SMI/SMI_Infomaterial/Documents/Faltbl%C3%A4tter/Airwatch_Info_FL_19aweb.pdf

**not for now, so stick to the traditional email circulation method**

## Next steps

### Steffen sends short project description to Biotronic

### List of question to BayFor (Steffen will call there)

- coverage of costs to be clarified precisely (100% or our own costs, e.g. measurement time), precise example
- definition of Projektpartner and Antragsteller (ist der Antragsteller auch ein Projektpartner)
- should real costs be used or values from table for Personalkosten?

### Agree on BayFor as funding agency
**done**

### Agree on financial plan
Everyone asks for what they would optimally want - also until Friday!

### Prepare document for a first round of circulation

We have three parts (animal, MR, AI) that need to be described in the separate parts.
→ Suggestion: Starting from the current version (Maya, yesterday):
- Maxim adds text for MR to every relevant section
- Markus adds text for AI to every relevant section
- Maya adds text for animals to every relevant section

→ text suggestions instead of just commeents

until Friday 10am morning. On Friday these separate texts are synthesized into a coherent document
**Markus is maily responsible - with contributions from everyone**

# Appendix
## Gliederung

1. Allgemeine Angaben:
- Bezeichnung Projekt
- Kurzbeschreibung des Projekts (ca. 10 Zeilen)
- Antragsteller, wissenschaftliche und industrielle Partner (soweit bekannt und noch ohne Verpflichtung)
- Vorgesehene Laufzeit
- Vorgesehene Fördersumme bzw. Gesamtumfang und Förderanteil (soweit absehbar)

2. Angaben zum beabsichtigten Projekt:
- Ausgangssituation und Motivation
- Technisch-wissenschaftliche Vorarbeiten
- Wissenschaftlich-technisches Lösungskonzept (soweit vorhanden)
- Umsetzung des geplanten Vorhabens
- Ziele
- Erwartete Innovation
- Nutzen der Kooperation zwischen Wissenschaft und Wirtschaft

3. Nur für Forschungsverbünde*:

**Wir sind ein Kooperationsprojekt aber kein Forschungsverbund**

4. Spätere wirtschaftliche Umsetzbarkeit

5. Aktueller Stand der Vorbereitungen (z. B. Vorgespräche, Termin für Einreichung, Problemfelder)

Erwünschter Gesamtumfang 5 bis 10 Seiten.
Um Übersendung der Projektskizze in deutscher Sprache auf elektronischem Weg wird gebeten.