---
# System prepended metadata

title: 'Meet Your Delegate: Episode #18'
tags: [Meet Your Delegate]

---

---
tags: Meet Your Delegate
---

# Meet Your Delegate: Episode #18

## Agenda

- [00:00](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg): Introduction
- [01:02](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=62): Yano Delegate Platform
- [12:15](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=735): QA w/ Yano
- [30:19](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=1819): Matt_NZ Delegate Platform
- [41:54](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=2514): QA w/ Matt_NZ

## Video

[Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUkjsG1VUzg)

### General Introduction 

#### Payton Rose

[00:00](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg)

- Hello to everyone. Welcome to the Meet Your Delegate Call #18. I am really excited to be here. My name is Payton, I am one of the governance facilitators at MakerDAO, and I am joined by some awesome MakerDAO folks and two people that are interested in becoming recognized delegates. 
- We will have about 30 minutes for recognized delegates today. We will hear about their platform, what they stand for, and why they want to be recognized delegates at MakerDAO. Then we will open it up to questions.

### Delegate Introductions

### Yano

[01:07](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=67)

- I am Jason Yanoytz. I am from San Francisco, went to school in Atlanta, and have lived in New York City for the last several years. My family is originally from Hungary, and when I lived in Budapest, my friends got me into crypto early. I have been following Maker since the early days and Bitcoin since 2015. 
- When I moved to NYC, I worked for a venture capital firm where I tried to convince much older ex-Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearn folks to look at crypto. This was 2016-2017 when the market started ripping the ICO boom. After getting laughed out of the room many times by traditional Wall Street folks, I finally convinced my boss, Tim, to come to a crypto event with me in mid-2017. 
- The event was filled with the typical 22-year-olds who pedestalized Bitcoin. Their sentiment was very anti-Wall Street and anti-banks. I got laughed at again the next day at the VC firm. That's when the idea for Blockworks hit me. These events seemed shady to these old-school traditional capital markets folks. The problem was a lack of information access; all crypto information was siloed on Reddit or Twitter. Older people working in traditional markets would not take the time to seek this information. 
- Blockwork's thesis was that crypto would eventually become one of the largest asset classes, if not the largest asset class, in the entire world. This space would get professionalized and move beyond this retail-only asset class. It would grow by orders of magnitude, the number of people and investors who came into the industry full-time and part-time. Those investors were going to need a better source of information. This led to Blockwork's creation in 2017. 
- We built one of crypto's largest information media platforms with a big news team and the largest network of podcasts. I host a podcast with this guy, Santiago Santos, who is ex-Purify. Blockwork's research goes head-to-head with Masari and Delphi.
- Tying this back to MakerDAO, I have been watching as an outsider, a long-term DAO supporter, and a long-term holder. I strongly believe that DeFi will grow exponentially in the coming decades and even in the coming years. Maker can become the backbone of the new financial system, which will ultimately make Maker one of the most impactful initiatives in the history of global finance. 

[5:52](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=352)

- I'm also passionate about growth, product, sales, and marketing. We have an amazing product on our hands. But we will need a better growth strategy, improved governance, and more scalable operations to achieve scale. I believe that Maker is a B-to-B platform for presenting these core values. It is a DAO to DAO platform and less of a B to C platform. I see Maker's future as a B-to-B platform that can serve as the backbone of DeFi.
- Maker should focus on expanding Dai's market share over the next couple of years by building connections with more protocols, like what we've done with Aave but with more protocols inside and outside Ethereum. Lastly, Maker must improve its governance and incentives by balancing pragmatic governance with the pressing need for long-term decentralization.
- I covered three things on my delegate platform that you all can see on the forum:
    - 1.) Growth Strategy: Expanding Dai and market shares, promoting MKR outside ETH communities, and incorporating Dai into more protocols. 
    - 2.) Governance: I tend to agree with Hasu's vision of DAO governance. The media seems to portray Hasu's vision against Rune's end game. I think they agree with more stuff than they disagree with. One of the first issues is finding a way to get delegates paid by the DAO on things that incentivize long-term success, not just voter participation but quality of decisions. There also needs to be better talent recruitment to the protocol. 
    - 3.) Scalable operations: as an outsider looking in, Maker's culture feels tense and, at times, hostile. Honestly, there are good reasons for that because it's created a very anti-fragile system. But I have some ideas on creating bidirectional trust across like, holders, and core units. With amazing cultures, no amount of pain can tear people apart. That's the culture Maker should strive to create.

#### Questions

[12:15](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=735)

- **Alan:** My ultimate question is how to create demand for Dai? 
    - Yano:  Dai is the destination, then real-world assets, then the D3M. I think that's where a lot of the growth in the demand for Dai will end up coming from. Maker has done an exciting thing that many other folks can take inspiration from: it has decentralized up the product stack. For example, loans at Maker are fully decentralized. You go up the product stack and have a very decentralized PSM. You can argue the D3M is not very decentralized. There is a lot of hands-on work, and that's fine. As that product gets figured out, you figure out how to build decentralized mechanisms into it. I'm sure one to two years from now, a new product will go on top of the stack; we'll figure out how to make real-world assets and D3M more decentralized. After, you keep building new products on top of the stack that drives demand for Dai. 

[14:06](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=846)

- **Raphael:** What's your take on censorship resistance? 
    - **Yano:** DeFi will eventually take over traditional capital markets because it's a better product. Maker can be the backbone of the new financial system, which is just an insane concept. We need to create a censorship-resistant platform. However, I am still debating this and don't have an entirely correct answer.
- **Raphael:** As a global financial system, censorship resistance becomes hairy because we need to work within the rules. 
    - **Yano:** I would always opt to go global and hope that the US catches up with things. I hope privacy-enabling platforms will continue getting increasingly popular. I would like to be part of building a platform that goes in that direction.

[17:35](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=1055)

- **Matt:** Should Maker expand beyond Ethereum? How could it get a scope with the LT roadmap? 
    - **Yano:** Do you not think both are possible? 
- **Matt:** I was wondering if you had any ideas about which L1s can be used? 
    - **Yano:** Everyone got caught up with the multi-chain thesis in the summer of 2021 (SOL, AVAX), which happens every bull cycle. Only a couple of them makes it through the bear cycles. I think it's a colossal waste of time to be chasing L1s. _Mentions examples of gaming companies scrambling after Solana and Terra crashes_.

[20:55](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=1255)

- **Payton Rose:** What do you think is the future of L2s in Maker?
    - **Yano:** L2s are one of our huge growth opportunities. I am not as informed on this one as I am on some of the other things I was talking about. I will put that on my list as something to have a little more conviction around. Good question.
- **Payton Rose:** I asked this question because of your stance on B to B or DAO to DAO. Many people use L2s to reach retail users. We have vaults cheap enough so they can access that. But that isn't quite your view of how Maker should be catering. So, how does Maker grow in your ideal scenario on the business-to-business side?
    - **Yano:** B to C businesses aren't very commoditized. The fees get compressed to zero over time, and it's not a high-margin business. The only pro of B to C (which may outweigh its cons) is its builds Maker's brand. Maker is one of the most powerful and trusted brands in all of DeFi. However, from a business model perspective, B to B is much better. They're more scalable, and the margins are much better. They also have a lower opportunity cost and less overhead. 

[24:47](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=1487)

- **Payton Rose:** Do you have any particular strategy to track small MKR holders? Do you think about delegators and the types you want to attract? Are you trying to be an attractive delegate who hasn't engaged in the system as much yet?
    - **Yano:** _-Gives a personal story about increasing engagement and leadership for 55 full time employees at Blockwork.-_

### Matt_NZ

[30:19](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=1819)

![](https://i.imgur.com/QQKX9LO.png)

![](https://i.imgur.com/OCWR0iE.png)

![](https://i.imgur.com/hVJm6Kq.png)

![](https://i.imgur.com/IszvLGQ.png)

![](https://i.imgur.com/BanuZqP.png)

![](https://i.imgur.com/vdGK7n1.png)

#### Questions

[42:11](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=2531)

- **Kianga:** Many people feel the future for the protocol is to simplify (ex., retreat from real-world assets, ban US users, de-peg). Suppose the DAO votes in the near term on something very dramatically different from what you all presented as a vision for MakerDAO. How would that impact your interest in being a delegate over the next six months?
    - **Matt:** I'm keen to commit to spending much more time and energy on Maker. Like I said on my platform, I've got some strong views on the direction the protocol should take. Part of being a delegate is participating in this discourse where you will not win every discussion or convince everyone that your ideas are correct. However, it is still important to stay in the debates to continue your perspective forward. If there were a successful proposal to de-peg from the USD, I immediately wouldn't think it was a great idea. I anticipate that I will give my perspective and vote accordingly. If the end game continues to surpass a series of votes, I don't necessarily agree with that. However, I wouldn't abandon Maker. That's part of how I've built my delegate platform. I'm committed to continuing to apply scrutiny to be independent and stay involved in that governance process. Ideally, the scientific governance process works;  people continue to exchange views, even when unsuccessful at the governance site.
    - **Yano:** What is your why in doing this? Is it to make money? Is it because you love its people and being a part of something new and exciting? Matt and I have a similar why. I want to improve Maker because I want to improve the entire system. DeFi is one of the best ways to improve the global system. DeFi will unlock wealth and capital for many people outside the United States. Improving Maker is probably the highest leverage and impact to ensure this becomes a reality. If something drastically different happened to Maker that I disagreed with, I would keep chugging along. If I disagree with something, I will trust the system and that other people know what's best for Maker. That's why governance works.

[47:53](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=2873)

- **David:** What's the lowest hangest fruit for improving Maker? 
    - **Matt:** I've identified previously on the forum that the low-hanging fruit is making better use of Maker’s brands. _Mentions support of engineering and intergration levels in addition to Mariano's work with Growth and Branding._
    - **Yano:** I agree with Matt. I think Maker has a strong brand, but it can build upon its brand by becoming something that touches more of the mainstream. The end goal is if the government or big banks tried to lobby against it, they wouldn't do so because their people are almost rooting for it. I want non-crypto people to root for Maker.
    - **Matt:** I think Jason is right. Paper Imperium has talked about it before. On the regulatory side, that aspect of the brand is super important. There is a big difference between the government shutting down TornadoCash (perceiving it for terrorists' money laundering) versus something hopefully like Maker, which in the future might have integrations with 30 to 50 medium and large-sized American banks. Those are very different propositions for a government and a regulator. I think that Maker should lead into the former. Real-world integrations are useful for Maker's brands and valuable from a regulatory perspective.
    - **Yano:** I was talking to a CMO two weeks ago. The company spent hundreds of millions over the last 18 months on sports marketing. I asked him how it was going. Have you seen ROI from it? Have you seen new customers coming in? He said it was never about ROI. That's what everyone got wrong. It was making it so that regulators couldn't come after us. If you are the title sponsor of XYZ sports league, then XYZ sports league will get pissed at the regulators if you're trying to take down their main sponsor. There are these chess games that people play.

[55:57](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=3357)

- **Payton Rose:** You did some work for GovAlpha, which was awesome on the research end. Do you have any thoughts on conflicts for delegates? When will you be abstaining from any particular votes because of that? How do you approach reoccurring situations where something you've done in the past and the small ecosystem runs up to something that comes through governance?
    - **Matt:** I've got developing views on this because of new delegates like Flipside and GX, who are major participants in governance and other protocols, some of which compete with Maker. It wouldn't be a good idea for Maker to take a hard line. There's much value in having governance teams where people have expertise in how situations have been dealt with other protocols. However, it's also something that Maker needs to track. Suppose every delegate was a professional delegate company that also manages other protocols. In that case, you could have a situation where another protocol competing with Maker also has representation from those various delegate groups.  

### Conclusion 

#### Payton Rose 

[59:46](https://youtu.be/nUkjsG1VUzg?t=3586)

- Thank you. Thanks for setting it up. And thanks, everyone, for taking the time to come. I appreciate it.


## Common Abbreviated Terms

`DAO`: Decentralized Autonomous Organinization 
`RWA`: Real World Asset
`DeFi`: Decentralized Finance

## Credits

- Kunfu-po produced this summary.
- Larry Wu produced this summary.
- Everyone who spoke and presented on the call, listed in the headers.
