# dr00 <> Apollo - A Conversation
I am getting in the habit of documenting my conversations with people. It gives me (and hopefully others) a way to reflect on conversation flows and to act as a tool for conversational improvement.

At the conclusion of conversations, I feed it to ChatGPT and ask it to judge my performance, the performance of the other conversation partner, and ask it for key takeaways and advice for improvement. Welcome to the future.

### Enjoy.

#### dr00 — Today at 4:39 PM
> During our call, I mentioned feeling a little stuck within the DAO. Specifically, I've noticed that there is some uncertainty and inconsistency around task delegation, which is causing some contributors to feel demotivated, undervalued, or unsure of their role.
>
> On one hand, there are tasks that members of the DAO would like me to do, but there is conflicting leadership about whether or not I should be the one to do them or if they should be given to someone else who is already being paid for related work. This can lead to some contributors feeling overpaid or underpaid, which can be worrisome or demotivating.
>
> On the other hand, this lack of clarity around task delegation can also make it difficult for contributors to know what is expected of them, which can lead to feelings of disempowerment and reluctance to ask for help when feeling overwhelmed.
>
> Overall, I believe that addressing these issues will be important for boosting motivation and productivity within the DAO.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 4:42 PM
> but you do have a clear task / scope of work list correct ?

#### dr00 — Today at 4:43 PM
> Yes, of course.
>
> Do all DAO contributors have the same set of clear tasks and scope of work?

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 4:48 PM
> Don't know in details of all other cases. But we have not received complains from other people not knowing their scope.
> Did not see that in DMs, or the polls.

#### dr00 — Today at 4:50 PM
> Interesting way to look at it 🙂 You might find giving everyone a clear scope will help prevent someone like me from feeling the need to scope creep.
>
> Not hearing complaints from others does not correlate to no problem existing.
> If partnerships had a clear scope of work that included the responsibility of AMAs, you can rest assured that I would not have done it.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 4:51 PM
> is not a perfect science. But I'll check with them.

#### dr00 — Today at 4:54 PM
> Appreciate that.
>
> Also important to remember, I am not like everyone else. I am bold, I speak my mind, I defend others, I'm highly empathetic and ultimately I am an advocate for "the people".
>
> I have worked in other organizations where I have encountered these same challenges. What Olympus is dealing with is NOT unique. We are an organization just as fallible as any others 🙂
>
> It takes work and I'm here for it!
> I'd rather know you and the rest of the council view me as an advocate rather than an adversary. It's no fun feeling like the organization I have dedicated so much of my time and life to feels I am adversarial.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 4:57 PM
> Interesting. Have you ever thought about getting into politics ?

#### dr00 — Today at 4:57 PM
> Many people have asked me that over the years

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 4:57 PM
> seriously. I mean advocating for the people sounds more as politics than as a dao

#### dr00 — Today at 4:58 PM
> Perhaps, maybe a more appropriate word would have been "Union Rep" :PU_KEK:
> There is a reason unions exist. Members of organizations rarely speak up.
> Which is why I do not think it's a fair opinion that just because "we have not received complaints" equates to "there are no problems".
> Again - not being adversarial, just sharing my take on it.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:00 PM
> I don't think Unions make sense in a DAO.
> As the DAO it self is already an association.
> its not a company

#### dr00 — Today at 5:01 PM
> of course not, but it doesn't have to be all or nothing. A DAO can take the learnings of traditional businesses, unions, etc and adapt them to Web3 concepts.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:01 PM
> I might agree if this was a company with 10k employees.

#### dr00 — Today at 5:01 PM
> I'm not saying we need to become OlympusUnion 🙂

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:01 PM
> But this is a 34 ppl dao

#### dr00 — Today at 5:03 PM
> I think much more happens behind the curtain than you realize.
>
> I'll give you a perfect example.
> Here is a person that did not speak up in a public forum:
>
> They felt slighted and undervalued. You likely did not hear about it and it was resolved without your intervention.
>
> But nonetheless, it happened and the resolution was facilitated by me.
> I understand where you're coming from, Apollo, and I agree that a traditional union structure might not make sense for our DAO. However, I do believe that there are benefits to having a representative or advocate who can help ensure that members feel heard and valued within the organization.
>
> Can you agree there may be some validity there?

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:10 PM
> no I do not.
> I don't think we need representatives.
> Thats what the DAO and DeFi is about
> a representative means you can not speak for your self. You can not custody your funds. So you need a centralized representative ... ?
> makes no sense in defi or DAOs.
> The contributors that need a representative should go back to work for FORD. or any other corporation
> not in a DAO

#### dr00 — Today at 5:13 PM
> Hmm, no. But then why have a community or dedicated contributors to begin with? Seems like a non-starter, no?

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:13 PM
> the DAO facilitates the machanisms for the community to express their will
> no middle man
> no unions leader 🙂

#### dr00 — Today at 5:14 PM
> In a perfect world, yes, but are we there yet?

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:14 PM
> do you see Unions leaders in the Ethereum foundation ?

#### dr00 — Today at 5:14 PM
> Pretty sure we have many representatives in our DAO
> Strategos, Council, Community Leaders

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:14 PM
> no. its all coordination work. But in the end. Snapshot is what is executed.
> I mean. Community. -> Snapshot -> Execution

#### dr00 — Today at 5:18 PM
> I think we are sort of talking past each other at this point.
>
> We currently are not in this idealistic state you envision and the bottom line is that we have contributors acting in hierarchical fashion despite your vision of a flat structure. Hierarchies have implicit structures of representatives with each level of the hierarchy representing the level directly beneath.
> I appreciate the spirited discussion, but you have to concede some of these points otherwise it's not productive.
>
> I think you are participating in black & white thinking or idealism and not focusing on the iterative discussion I am trying to have.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I want to live in this future, we both have the same ultimate goals, just a different idea of how to get there.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:23 PM
> I agree we might not be there yet. BUt we set up the proper structure ( a DAO) with direct voting mechanism (snapshots) so community members can express their will.
>
> On the work side, we have some structure because contributors requested to have some structure, before we even had strategos. The stragos wanted a council. BUt the flatness is still there. This is not a corp.
> In fact, if it was really herarchical, last Zeus proposal for cool loans would be implemented right away
> but it did not
> received community push back.
> and it might never be implemented.
> So its not a future. its a present.
> there still might be some things to solve. But none require a Union type
> And if you feel DAOs need that. you can start Union DAO, to unionize DAO contributors accross DeFi.
> and lets see what the industry thinks about it

#### dr00 — Today at 5:26 PM
> Don't get hung up on that. I never meant to advocate for a union. Just saying that we are dealing with humans at the end of the day. Is the goal to obfuscate away the human? Ideally from the protocol, yes. But you can't disregard the human that helps us get to that future, right?

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:26 PM
> My believe is that is a 19th century concept that made sense back then. but not in a DAO
> for the contrary. The DAO Enhanced that human. Give all options available for the human to develp, express, create, etc
> And many projects started in Olympus discord.
> Klima, Redacted, Concave, Bond, etc

#### dr00 — Today at 5:27 PM
> I'm saying, for example as Wartull said on the last community call, the eventual goal is to remove the DAO from the protocol - this is what I was referring to above.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:28 PM
> yes. That will happen one day
> what I mean is.
> Liek Etherum
> you can have many 10 to 12 people teams
> developing on top of Olympus
> and using OHM
> that will scale at infinitum

#### dr00 — Today at 5:30 PM
> I have zero disagreements with you on any of this. I think we both have a shared vision of the future and the ideal world we'd like to establish within DAO structures.
> I understand that you envision a future where the DAO operates completely flatly and without any hierarchical structures. While that's a great goal to work towards, I think it's important to acknowledge that we may not be there just yet. In the meantime, I still firmly believe that having a representative or advocate could be beneficial in certain situations. For example, if a contributor feels uncomfortable raising a concern or suggestion publicly, a representative could help ensure that their voice is still heard. Additionally, if there are issues or grievances that aren't being addressed, a representative could help identify and resolve them. While it's not a perfect solution, I think it could be a step towards the more idealistic future we both want to see.
> I got to run! It was a great conversation @Apollo_(||,||), really. I appreciate you and your viewpoints.

#### Apollo_(||,||) — Today at 5:32 PM
> what you call representative is the stratego, or manager.
> Thanks.
> good night

#### dr00 — Today at 5:32 PM
> Yes 💯

if you got this far, you might enjoy some insights from our favorite LLM :point_down:

## ChatGPT Conversation Insights

Fin.