# Post KCEU notes ### Notes from Cloud Native Rejekts - Lot's of talks around "developer platforms". Many folks seem to be working towards building OSS tooling enabling this - Project of interest: https://github.com/syntasso/kratix - Discussed as a framework for building platforms as a product - Concept of "Promising" services seems to be what Packaging + Service Bindings would enable. Even though it is closer to packaging. - They seem to be making it easier to wrap Helm charts into "promises" (equivalent of a package), pretty similar to the direction we took. - Great talk by [Lion Li](https://cfp.cloud-native.rejekts.io/cloud-native-rejekts-eu-amsterdam-2023/talk/PMSHXB/) using analogies to describe how system thinking can be used to understand how developers adopt platforms. - Lots of buzz around WASM - Wasm for running workloads at constrained edge environments is a key point of interest - Cosmonic has a superb way of bringing together WASM and Kubernetes while building out a unified dashboard for connected workloads across these platforms. ### Carvel project meeting - HUGE turnout, definitely beyond expectations. - Engineers do resonate with how Carvel enables them - Lots of insightful discussion on the cost of moving towards using ytt - Key point being "how long before I find ytt effective" - A positive response around this from our friends at German Edge Cloud. - They mentioned that they did face resistance while convincing org leaders. - Very clearly saw the benefits after the first week itself - Lots of discussion around how the attendees manage their workloads today and which pieces of carvel they find valuable ### User case studies #### German Edge Cloud - Public cloud provider based out of Germany - Chated with their engineers Usman and Damien - They use Carvel heavily and have usage patterns very similar to our own. This is reaffirming. - They were stoked to learn about the "package of packages" pattern we use internally - Took a few notes from them as well around: - Automated dependency bumping for repositories via Renovate - vendir as a package manager for ytt modules - **Action item:** They expressed a desire to contribute more actively to the community. We should nurture relations like this from an OSS perspective. - **Action item:** Localised ppublic cloud providers seem to be more commonplace than i would have thought. How can we network and reach out to more such groups? #### ITQ - They are building out a "managed TKGm" offering - They manage data centers for government organisations in Western Europe - Thrive in the space in between on-prem and cloud native solutions - Interacted with the team and helped them architect a solution for bootstrapping airgapped setups by leveraging Carvel. - They are heavily invested in the idea of using Carvel to have "profiles" for workload clusters. - Ideally, they would like to set up TAP on top of their workload clusters at a point in the future. And have 1:1 mapping with their "cluster profile packages" and TAP versions. Super excited to see this in action as this will involve challenges of overlapping Package dependencies that we have been discussing. - **Action item**: Seems like ITQ is a VMware partner with a strong hold over a region. Do we have other partners like them and Terasky whom we can approach? We could help garner wider adoption for Carvel AND help them manage VMware products effectively. - **Thought**: Are we so hard to setup that folks are hiring people to do it for them? ### Tales from the booth - We have adoption far wider than we are aware of - Miguel Luna (ex-TMC, now Elastix) mentioned that there is an ongoing attempt to adopt ytt - There was another German cloud provider relying on our APIs, unfortunately I do not recall their name - Our tools are used at Telus and StackSlate as well! ### Takeaways from the booth - Even though the benefits of kapp are more apparent, seasoned YAML ninjas seem to be more attarcted towards ytt. ytt might be the more common gateway tool rather than kapp. - Getting up and running with ytt adds toil, even though the benefits are definitely observable. - Lots of "Eureka!" faces when users see what ytt can do and learn about relocatable imgpkg bundles ### Shoutout Thomas Vitale has been doing a LOT of advocacy for Carvel. He delivered a quick talk about Carvel packaging at the TAP App Delivery booth. Having such passionate community members is amazing!