---
# System prepended metadata

title: Minutes of the ORSO Chairs meeting on 8th March 2024

---

Present: Tom Arnold (TA), Andrew Nelson (AN), Brian Maranville (BBM), Stefan Kowarik (SK), Max Skoda (MS), Ben Humphreys,Andrew McCluskey


Apologies: Jochen Stahn (JS)
Pre-meeting comments:
"I had a look at the preliminary schedule for our SXNS satellite - and here are some questions / remarks:

- I suggested a session for testing (and probably improving) the SIMPLE model language. This is not in the program - which is fine for me - but there is a session about the COMMON model language. Are there any connections or synergies between them?

- There is a session about the SLD db with essentially the same content as last time. I think it is good to announce it - but 2:15 h is too much. It might be a good idea to collect direct feedback in order to improve the usability. But this would require Artur to take part.

- If there is a candidate to take over my co-chair position, I am happy to step back.

- I have not yet decided if I attend the SXNS conference: It coincides with the only time slot I can go on vacation with my wife this year.

- new web pages: In order to prepare our new and more clearly structured web pages we made copies of some of the old pages. This now leads to the problem that changes (in the file format specs) are not visible on the 'actual' page. Thus please help with finalizing the structure and setting the correct links so that we can switch over. If there is no content available for some of the topics (e.g. 'simple intro'), we should remove the links and proceed for the time being."

# Agenda


## 1. Review previous minutes and assign a note taker


- [x] ACTION_JAN19a: MS to think of someone to discuss/present on legal issues associated with personally identifiable info.

-> MS hasn't got anyone specific yet. MS is going to find someone from the *Mantid/computing/IDAAS* group to discuss the issues here. Not clear who initiated the concerns here (management/computing group/??). MS will ask Sara Rogers, who could possibly furnish more info here. (is it n-data that they're concerned about, or personal info).
CLOSE WITH: Max has approached several people, but Mantid team/data service don't really want to say anything concrete about it.


## 2. AGM at SXNS.

Rooms: There are 4 rooms available each with capacity for 15-20 people.

### Sponsorship

BMM: DAPHNE may be able to sponsor - this requires some more extensive DAPHNE session... see below.

### Outline of planned agenda (to be finalised here)

### Morning Parallel Breakout Sessions with a Coffee break at 10:30 

#### (180 mins) Open Data in Reflectometry (Chaired by Bridget Murphy, Max Skoda): 

The Reflectometry community along users of all Photon and Neutron (PaN) facilities internationally are currently required by funding agencies to implement FAIR -Findable, Accessible, Interoperable and Reusable- data principles for experiments realized on the basis of public funding. The implementation of the FAIR principles constitutes a major challenge for both the PaN facilities and also the reflectometry user communities and needs to be solved in a common approach with a shared accountability. In Germany the user representatives of [KFS](https://www.sni-portal.de/en/user-committees/committee-research-with-synchrotron-radiation?set_language=en) (Komitee Forschung mit Synchrotronstrahlung) and [KFN](https://www.sni-portal.de/en/user-committees/committee-research-with-neutrons) (Komitee Forschung mit Neutronen) initiated the DAta from PHoton and Neutron Experiments - [DAPHNE4NFDI](https://www.daphne4nfdi.de/english/) - project in which users and facilities are collaborating to make data FAIR and is building upon the groundbreaking work of the [PaNOSC](https://www.panosc.eu/) and [ExPaNDS projects](https://expands.eu/). 

ORSO in collaboration with the DAPHNE4NFDI consortium are addressing the topics and implications of FAIR data and Open Data policy for the reflectometry community. The purpose of the first part of this meeting is to exchange the current status across the world to get as wide as possible an input and discuss the issues from differing national user communities’ perspectives. The session will include:

* Presentations of the work done to date by DAPHNE, ORSO & ExPaNDS
* Discussion of overlap and collaboration opportunities
* Discussion on legal issues associated with personally identifiable info (e.g. GDPR/data protection/names).
* We also invite any interested particiants to submit an abstract for presentation
  
The output is expected to be a joint paper on Metadata and the setting up of a reflectometry data base for shared data.
You are welcome to fill-in the survey [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdx4waVnd19mK2QW_qBlYsS1E8Z_PhjQ5pxQUTUSemUacikjQ/viewform).

#### (90 mins) Discussion on the model languages (Chaired by Brian Maranville)

This session will discuss...
* presentation on common languge (Brian Maranville)
* presentation on simple languge (Jochen Stahn)
* discussion


#### (90 mins) Teaching materials "code camp" (chaired by Andrew McCluskey)

Building on the success of the previous session to improve the online [Guide to Reflectometry](https://www.reflectometry.org/learn/intro.html) we will have another "hackathon" style session to improve this material. 
Andrew will introduce the online material and how changes can be made to the material. 
You will then be set of to work, independly or in group to improve the material in whatever way that you see fit. 
Andrew will be around to help anyone that is struggling with the technology. 


### Afternoon Plenary session 13:00-14:00

#### Keynote science talk(s) 13:00-13:45

Speaker(s) to be confirmed:
* Mathieu Doucet (SNS), willing to give it remotely
* Stefan Kowarik (Graz)

#### Annual General Meeting

**13:45 – 14.15: Short Reports from each of the Working groups.**

* Tom Arnold, Bridget Murphy: Education & Outreach Working Group 
* Andrew McCluskey: Reproducibility Working Group 
* Max Skoda, Jochen Stahn: Data Formats Working Group 
* Brian Maranville, Andrew Nelson: Data Analysis Working Group Presentation

#### How to get involved and contribute to ORSO (Chaired by Tom Arnold)
This session is aimed at explaining how you can contribute to ORSO with demonstrations aimed at different levels
* Introduction to GitHub
* How to edit the website and contribute material

**14.15 - 14:30: Voting**

* Explanation of ORSO organisation & voting methodology
* Election of 4 chairs (1 from each working group)
* Formal approval of the [ORSO Governing Principles](https://www.reflectometry.org/organisation_and_communication/orso_governing_principles/).

**14:30 - 14:45** Coffee break 

### Afternoon Parallel Breakout Sessions 14:45-17:00

#### (90min) Reproducibility working group (Chaired by Bridget Murphy, Max Skoda, Stefan)

This session will discuss... 

* Repository for reference datasets for machine learning and other uses
* Jos Cooper (ESS): Simulation of datasets for testing analysis

#### (90 mins) Recent Developments in Reflectometry Analysis (Chaired by Andrew Nelson)

This session will discuss recent developments to the state of the art reflectometry packages available to the scientific community. Each package will have the opportunity to give a 10-15 minute presentation, which is intended to stimulate conversations for new scientific directions.

Following these presentations there will be a discussion on the advances/functionality the community would like to see being worked on in data analysis.

If time permits there will be a talk and short discussion on 'lost' techniques - those developed during the earlier ages of reflectometry, but because of the lack of FAIR approaches have to be brought to life again.


* Short talks (10-15 min) on recent developments in analysis software. Package developers are encouraged to demonstrate their wares.
* What does the community want from analysis software?
* Talk and short discussion on 'lost' techniques. e.g. Maximum Entropy. 



#### Open for discussion session ideas



## AOB




Date of the next meeting: May  ??th 10:30 GMT (11:30 Europe, 05:30 US, 21:30 Aus)
