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Tier list r/europe session 3

![](https://i.imgur.com/YcXf2EO.png)


## S tier

### Ottoman

Income went up by 20, although it can improve 15 ducats further with one [simple trick](https://gyazo.com/d18f29ebc33669e4e00f963ae5572eee), europoor hate him.
Fl of 57/110 but has 78k manpower in the bank. The only thing currently holding him back is the 5.5k debt meaning he pays 18 a month in interest. The next idea of economic will help with that but that's still a bit off. Has made Ajam a vassal to feed all of Persia and is wisely taking all the trade away. Next session will probably eat the rest of Persia unless something big happens

### Aragon

Had a relaxed session it seems. Integrated Naples and gave the pope the province of Napoli as the good Catholic he is. Dominates genoa but is giving more than half of his trade income to the pope in exchange for transfer trade power, which seems like a bad deal. Is lagging a bit behind in admin tech because he is filling out economic ideas, which means the delay of Spain. Forming Spain is a big power spike which he needs to not get overrun by the Turks. Income at 56 but giving 14.7 of that as subs to the pope. 38/78 FL with near max manpower of 55k. To be honest, if he didn't have a free integrate on Castille i would have rated him lower.

## A tier

### England

Paid off the debt in full and got the corruption down to 2. Income Went up with only 9 to 46 but that gives a screwed image. Somehow managed to piss off the burgers (seriously the only one I shouldn't piss off..) and converted to protestant which both mean a serious hit to its income. Took a big bite out of Scandinavia and the EC. Even managed to spawn colonialism but going to the new world via Tenerife to Trinidad. FL of 49/55. Also, I should probably make Calais the Staple port.

### Muscovy

Income went up with 15 to 38.5 and with a FL of 42/64 seems is pretty strong.  Took the gold mine from Transoxiana but hasn't developed it yet or even made it a state. Could squeeze 3 ducats more out of the trade if he moved the merchant from Kazan to Kiev. Biggest problems are that somehow this Russia ran out of manpower and has -10k atm and that great, horde sized hole in his guts.

### Vijayanagar

Seems Bengal truce broke into him 3 times in a row... I guess free land for Vijayanagar. 10k debt! Paying half his income in interest! Income that actually went down this session to 59.9. Probably due to the loss of prosperity but still. Fought a death war vs Bengal and Timmie at the same time as the ottoman and they certainly made him fight for it. 26/61FL with 6k manpower. If Jaunpur is going to backstab him, now would be the perfect time wink wink cough cough.

## B tier

### Qing

Did some nation building last session, which is odd since he is supposed to be a horde but guess forming Qing really made him lose his desire to raize. Income went up to 52 and FL of 25/58. Didn't take Korea to safe the admin points I guess since he is 6/7 in economic ideas. It is about to hit the quality - eco power spike. Somehow the big Chinese war didn't happen, I guess because Sechuan was ai the last session and Zhejiang went through a bankruptcy.

### Macau

The only Chinese great power although they don't differ a lot between them. Income of 40 and a FL of 23/50 with only 4k manpower in the bank. Meaning if war breaks out this is going to be hard. Did finish quality tough which I think is a better first pick then quantity. Deved colonialism and can farm the burghers to get some nice dip points so he can try to catch up faster. 
I am intrigued by what he is doing. Conquered the tip of Sumatra while his ally madras has most of the rest. I almost didn't see but, he also converted to Shinto like a boss (way better religion)

### Zhejiang

Like mentioned above went through a bankruptcy. Came out of it stronger has an income of 44 and a FL of 42/62 because his NI gives him a 30% boost. 6/7 in Quality but is lagging a mil tech behind so needs to make a choice what to prioritize. Has build an impressive amount of workshops and temples that boost his income quite a lot. The reason it is not higher, and it pains me because I'm a big fan of Zhejiang, is because of the expansion opportunities. A hard war vs Macau and Sechuan seems to happen and Japan is also unified.

### Papal states

Damn, I may have rated the pope to low last week. Income more than doubled up to 57.5 of which 14.7 are subs in exchange for trade power which I think is an awesome deal for the pope. Split Milan in 2 and a FL of 51/53. The biggest "problem" why I am not rating it higher is that while there is still some land to grab there isn't a lot. And the land he has is already completely build up with buildings. Which is odd saying that that's a bad thing but it means he is punching above his weight atm. Unless he can get some good expansion opportunities he will fall off quickly I think.

### Poland

When the king of Bohemia died he wisely decided that his crown needed to stay in the HRE so passed it along to the king of Austria. Poland saw this and decided differently. Bohemia is now under a PU with Poland. Poland increased the autonomy in large parts of ex Lithuania which is going to hurt him in the long run I think. Income stayed the same. He deved the gold mine once which is good but just like in Lithuania the autonomy was increased when he got it meaning its still over 50% autonomy and making "only" 1.5 ducats. He did realize his mistake and is using the edict to drop it as fast as he can. FL of 47/52 with 43k manpower in the bank

### Hungary

Was AI for the first half of the session if I recall correctly (wasn't here the first half myself so not sure) Income went up with 8 to 28 but is still heavily lacking, FL of 24/41 and he is still behind with tech. While admin and dip are not that important. lagging behind a mil tech is certainly far from ideal. Don't know what they did to beautiful Austria but the 2 states where Hungary has land he is currently sharing with either Bavaria or Switzerland and ottoman. Stuck to aristocratic which is debatable and shortly went to exploration second, he did put some points into it since he does has an explorer but wisely decided to drop it from religious. Could use the ex provinces of Bosnia to turn orthodox which is certainly worth considering.

## C tier

### Jaunpur 

You know what I said now is the time to strike for Jaunpur? scratch that.
Income of 32 and FL of 18/44 with -5k manpower. 9k! Debt meaning he is paying 26 a month in interest. Just like Vijayanagar, he is going bankrupt soon. Land wise he expanded like crazy this session though! He even made it to great power 6th place! Turned 44% Nepali and even managed to eradicate his primary culture completely. Could possible form Nepal next session although with a bankruptcy and 3 admin techs to go that seems unlikely. 

### Sechuan

Being AI helped him quite a lot actually. He was safe from Zhejiang and Qing and the AI even doubled his income to 23! FL of 48/49 no manpower though. If he lives trough the Chinese war good expansion into Southeast Asia and Tibet is possible. One real oof thing is that he has awesome terrain for forts. But somehow all his forts are in bad terrain.

### Switzerland

Income of 29.3 (8! of which are from Tirol) and 37/36 FL. 10k manpower and loads of professionalism mean Switzerland, just like the pope, can punch above its weight atm. Big rivals with the pope and seems poised to fight against him soon. Decided that Diplo points are for losers and has 10/4 relations 5 of which are vassals/marches which means another nice boost to his army. Finished defensive and the swiss forts. Yikes, I would not want to invade here.

### France

Ìncome of 24.1 and a FL of 22/31. Only 3k manpower in the bank though. Went expansion second, while this originally was his plan all along, since he formed France and with it the awesome France ideas it might be worthwhile to focus on land warfare completely. especially with an unfriendly Switzerland, it seems at its border.

### Portugal

He hoped to go up a tier but he relative to the others he didn't expand as much. Income went up with 7 to 25.9 and a FL of 27/27. He hasn't made any new stats in Morocco which is curious. If he would just state everything his income would go up with 2 but he can then start deving the gold mine which is only at 2 and with 47! devastation. Has an average autonomy of about 50 atm. That is hurting him a lot but Aragon said he would give him some tips so let's see how it goes next session!


### Ethiopia

Mr gold man. Making 37.8 of which 13.12 is from gold. FL of 41/49 and 18k manpower in the bank. Killed Ajuraan together with Butua but I wonder if they will have a war for the power of the gold soon. The only downside is he went religious first and is only now filling up defensive.

## D tier

### Songhai

Mr potential gold man. has an income of 35.2 and a FL 21/43. Is making a good profit of 16 but since he is 5/4/7 tech he can't really build much yet. It is very close to unifying his region before the Europeans show up, who are at his doorstep btw. 

### Butua

Mr more gold man. Income of 44.1, 21.9 of which is gold. FL of 22/36 and speedy as fuck generals. Only has 4k manpower though. Caught up with mil tech but is using a lot of his admin to lower inflation and core and diplo to integrate vassals it seems since he is both still at tech 5. Does means his inflation is "only" 11. 

### Otomo

Called it! Conquered all of Japan (except Kyoto to remain a daimyo I assume) and has 416 development. He is D tier because his autonomy averages at around 50  though meaning his income is pretty bad at 18.6 FL of 20/32 and could play a crucial role in the coming war in china. Which side is he going to help though, if he is even going to get involved? He has built up a decent navy to protect himself. Went exploration first, I don't know if that was already like this last session but I'm not sure about that. Guess going towards California could be worth it. 

### Teutons 

Income of 18.54 and 17/25 FL. 24k manpower while 20k is his max and 400 ducats banked means he should prob build some more troops. 8/9/9 tech-wise and only lacking in admin because he picked up economic second. Finish quality and only needs admin tech 10 to form Prussia. Could be a real big boy eventually but atm is pretty weak and no strong allies.

### Cologne

Income of 16.1and a FL of 19/19. near max manpower banked. I feel this player is a bit hesitant with expanding quickly out of fear for coalitions. It has 600 ducats in the bank But is lagging behind in tech.

### Bavaria

The player took over Bavaria this session and did some decent growth but he is lagging behind. Took some provinces from Austria and just randomly around him. Income of 13.8  and 17/19 FL. Administrative first idea which I guess was the AI but is far from ideal. 

### Aztec

He conquered a decent part of Mexico and his only limitation seems to be his OE. Portugal is colonizing next to him so he can reform as soon as that is done. Income grew to 14.5 but he is giving 4.5 of that to Portugal in the form of knowledge sharing and subsidies. Could farm 2 of his 3 estates but I assume he is waiting for until after he reformed. Although he is still 1.5k monarch points from each of his cap.10/28 FL with 16k manpower banked

### Majapahit

I asked a mod if this was still played. Because after a good session 1 it just stopped. Madyas and Macau are taking the land he should have taken. income at 23 19/31 FL. Estates not farmed over leader cap. I think it was AI controlled.

## E tier

### Inca

Passed only one reform last session. Is about to pass another as soon as he deals with the rebels. Currently at war with a tree province minor who has more troops and better tech then him. I have faith he will succeed though. 26.2 income (keep in mind gold is heavily nerved for him) and a FL of 17/53. Needs to reinforce 6k through which nets him on 16k manpower reserve.

### Transoxiana

Income not even half bad at 22.4 with an army of 7/31 but 30k manpower banked. The biggest problem is 5.5k debt, the same as the Ottoman. Costing him 18 of his income a month and bankruptcy is inevitable. With a muscovy knocking and his sugar daddy Timurids dead, it does not look good.

### Timurids

From S tier last week to E tier this week. It did not go well for mister Timmie. Income still 19.1 and 25/27 FL. 21k manpower in the bank and really good generals. The problems are that I don't think the Turk will stop. While Vijayanagar might take a breather I don't think the Turk will. 

### Hedjaz

10.3 income and 10/18 FL. Current ly fighting mamluks in his independence war (player jumped on Hedjaz since mamluks died to the Ottoman) Has the holy cities and good forts but needs more power meaning he will likely expand into Persia and come into conflict with the Turk again or into Ethiopia, who is much stronger than him.

### Madyas
Income of 8.4 and a naval FL of 43/47 because lets be honest this guy only cares about boats.  Also took exploration as a second idea I guess he wants to consolidate around the Malacca and Molucca node.

### Ayutthaya

13.2 income and a FL of 16/24 (25k manpower banked) IIRC it was ai the last session. A lot of lands revolted away from him but at least every province has finally be converted! Lost the alliance with Zhejiang and seems to be easy pickings for the players around him next session

## F tier

### Ulm

Income still halve a ducat short of 10 at 9.5 15/15 FL with diplomatic as the second idea group. I know it was an AI-controlled last session but it just feels like it will die to Bavaria or Switzerland eventually.

### Livonian order

Won the war vs Sweden finally! It only cost him everything he had before.
English sniped Riga away from him and in return, he took Friesland and ost Friesland. Hell bends on getting to the new world with exploration and expansion but I just don't see it happening. Income of 8.3 and a FL of 10/17. Big allies though in the form of Poland and Muscovy which is the only thing it has going for him.

### Kongo

Was AI last session, an income of 15.4 and FL of 17/34. 22k manpower banked. Could farm all the states which he desperately needs since his tech is 2/6/6. If Butua wanted he could kill this pretty easily.

### Sakalava
Income of 8.2 and a FL of 15/15.  Colonizing towards Indonesia it seems? could have gone for the Cape but didn't. I dont know what the plan here is. No allies could easily be taken over by Butua but then again, when he joined I assumed he would die to Ajuraan and look how that worked out.

### Carib

Reformed of off Portugal meaning he lost his colonists. I assume the AI picked espionage which would have to be dropped for expansion/exploration asap. Deved his provinces a lot but with an income of 8.12 and a FL of 13/13, I just don't this nation being relevant anytime soon.

### Apache

Went towards the Aztec which could be his undoing. 4.8 income but his third province is almost done colonizing! 11/15 FL with 15k banked. still tech 1 across the board. I don't think it will end well for Apache.



## Ded tier

### Tunis

The expected Anschluss of his land happened. Aragon will likely just keep conquering his land until he is totally gone.

### Ajuraan

Lost land to both Butua and Ethiopia. It seems unlikely to survive the next session.

### Bengal

Lost a war vs Vijayanagar and Jaunpur and then decided to truce break 3 times into them. This nation is dead.

### Holland

Died to England as predicted.










