---
# System prepended metadata

title: Session 2 tier list

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# Session 2 tier list
So I rate the nations and the rulers separate for obvious reasons.
A C tier nation can have a 6/6/6 and an A tier nation can have a 1/1/1 just keep that in mind. Also I rated on how the nation is right now if you didnt had a player war I cant judge your military ofc.

Before:
![](https://i.imgur.com/tXP3eAl.png)


After:
![](https://i.imgur.com/ebfRM6B.png)



# Herr gamer

## Mouse slip
Guess who has to thumbs and clicked on designate march instead of annex vassal? This guy!

## Moroccon Kerfuffle
I dont know what exactly happened but surely *somebody* fucked up there right ? No way morocco should hold any amount of time against Tunis, Mamluks Castile, Portugal and England.


# Europe

## A tier
### France
![](https://i.imgur.com/YQbOiIS.png)
(Malevolent, Indulgent, Charismatic Negotiator)

Arguably one of the best nations in the game right now. 67k max manpower and 45/54 FL means he can field a good army. However behind in ideas "only" at 4 ideas. While this is above average it's not good.
Making 36 ducats a month which is not great either for his size. For one; collect in Bordeaux and conquer Britanny its one of the best states in the game. If you want to save adm you just vassalise them and steal their trade. Fort set up is *questionable*. Did you really delete labourd? and anjou instead of Poitou? smh. Also Toulon instead of the one above it? SMH GASPUTIN SMH MY HEAD

### England
![](https://i.imgur.com/T143Dpx.png)
(Greedy, Entrepreneur, Bold Fighter)

Kept his land on the mainland and looks to be wanting even more. While understandable it gives free warscore if he ever goes to war. A France that doesn't collect can get Normandy; it even gives him free stuff from his missions.
I get what you are doing in low lands gotta get that loot but why like this? Just group up your army in one stack this way loot doesn't refill and you risk getting butt blasted by rebels.
Anyway; 5 ideas in quality very nice considering you don't have nobility. Income is 46.1 but that's not your real income considering you occupy land in burgundy and getting trade power from it. Still, England is looking good! (steal trade power from your vassal and upgrade your cots though)
Chad no CB on Scotland session 1 btw.

### Ottomans (yes constantinople is europe)
![](https://i.imgur.com/m7GtvqM.png)
(Careful, Well Advised, Charismatic Negotiator)

While not managed perfectly it's still the strongest nation in the game at this point; probably. 3 ideas in quantity and 5/5/7 tech is not perfect. (don't take mil ahead of time if you don't have to, imagine if you put those points into the idea group!) Still 35 income and 76k manpower. Combined with Anatolian troops means he will wreck anybody. Take another look at your estates though there is room for improvement there.

## B tier

### :b:enice
![](https://i.imgur.com/lmYFU7g.png)
(Sinner, Entrepreneur, Fierce Negotiator)

Making good money at 42 a month. Sneaky got claims on Serbia you can't hide from me. 3 ideas in quality are low. He is a republic after all. But to be fair he is the bad kind of republic (let's take a quick looksie at your rulers...) Eh, they aren't that bad. Anyway, you split Italy and now you need to go somewhere else because the amount of provinces you have right now is too low. You know that though you are a :b:etter player than me. (why is your inflation so high though?).
We do all that effort to make catholic playable and you go orthodox anyway smh.

### Florence
![](https://i.imgur.com/ULw9Jr0.png)
(Free Thinker, Entrepreneur, Well Connected)

Florence did what Florences do; make mad cash (31 a month) and get lots of mana. He has full ideas so should finish eco on time. Also, he got the OP Medici banking mission. God, I love Florence I want to play Florence. 

### Austria
![](https://i.imgur.com/Z2Z52JC.png)
(Benevolent, Strict, Naive Enthusiast)

Whaatttt? The Emperor B Tier? But he has so much manpower (87k max) so much FL (44/56, tbh I thought it would be higher). And he is up to date in tech (5/6/6) Well yes dear reader but you see he has 1 idea (enough mana to take 2 more but then he won't make tech 7) His income considering he has Tirol is pretty low at only 30. He is behind in admin so he will be late with eco ideas as well. Sit down take some peace and chill. You will shoot up pretty quick.

### Bohemia
![](https://i.imgur.com/RSsAwba.png)
(Tolerant, Industrious, Martial Educator)

First of all; nice generals. Second of all, I don't think the drilling is worth it. If you don't do it you make 3 ducats a month more which means you can run an LVL 2 mil advisor instead of drilling or even a lvl 3 one if he is discounted. This would be worth much more since you only have 3 ideas in quality. Although technically you are in the same spot as Austria with ideas/tech since you just spend the 800 points on ideas instead of saving them up. Does that means if you go to war right now tech 7 will be late. 
On the bright side, you can take adm 7 soon and start filling out those eco ideas! 36 income with a sexy 16 of that from your gold mine. You gold digger!

### Po(or)yland
![](https://i.imgur.com/ZLvHsVv.png)
(Well Connected, Free Thinker, Silver Tonque)

Poland poor; stop taking dip tech just don't do it you need to spend all your dip point on deving up those cloth provinces you need the money! Speaking of dip points why you no have an advisor? You can easily prevent the rebels from rising up in Kiev either stop them or lower autonomy and then kill them. Say hypothetically bohemia/Austria attack you right now. Since all your forts are mothballed you lose like 3 of them instantly. What you gonna do?

### Muscovy
![](https://i.imgur.com/HAa22Ti.png)
(carefull, kind-hearted, conquer)

Muscovy was off to a rough start but seems to be doing okay now. Capping at mil points is a yikes but let's assume that *just* happened. Income at 21.6 is decent. If I was you I would accept Bashkir as culture; lower autonomy on the gold mine and convert it as fast as you can for that sweet sweet cash. (do note that if it depletes at an uneven number we will punish you since it can bug the game).
Overall, and don't take this the wrong way, it's a better nation than I expected Supdef! Nice!

### Sweden
![](https://i.imgur.com/K8f42v1.png)
(Architectural Visionary, Freethinker, Bold Fighter)

25 income is pretty decent. Don't you just love Dalaskogen?
Popped your buildings mission already which is a bit early imo since you aren't really building stuff right now. Especially since you don't have eco 2 yet. 5 Ideas and looks to be on time to start filling out Eco. I think this is going to be one of the strongest nations in Europe pretty soon.

### Aragon
![](https://i.imgur.com/9hdaYbG.png)
(Calm, Inspiring leader, Well connected)

It was AI so I won't go into it too much; but with Castile dead, it could become Spain and have a really good game!

### Portugal
![](https://i.imgur.com/VyhBIxT.png)
(Navigator, Expansionist, Benevolent)

It looks bad, but it probably isn't I assume Aragon will let you instantly out of this war, and then all is Gucci.
Income is 15.3 (with 2 provinces occupied) and you are colonizing in the Caribbean. Can pick tech 7 and if you pick up expansion that's going to be a lot of colonies you can pump out. However, there are exilers which is annoying.



## C tier
### Serbia
![](https://i.imgur.com/S1Gbxdf.png)
(Sinner, Strict, Silver Tonque)

He is deadlifting Europe; legit look at the map tell me it's not an arm flexing.
Income at 13 ducats a month. Killed Moldavia so that's pretty neat. 2 ideas in quantity 5/4/6 tech but lots of points are stored up. He is just waiting for the institution as the last European. Close to get a show strength on Lithuania. I think this nation is looking fun! You get 1 Krediax point!

### Livonian order
![](https://i.imgur.com/WERvl9z.png)
(Conquer, Just, Zealot)

Now here is a joke for you all;
A Brandenburg; A Livonian order and a Teutonic order walk into a Prussia. Brandenburg and Livonian order Tag team Teutonic order so he is out cold. But who will now form Prussia? Not a good joke but a relevant one none the less! Overall though this Livonian order makes me happy it got a decent chunk of conquest. Income is low but that's to be expected it's up to date in mil tech and 2/7 in quality. The biggest criticism is to take the +1 estate stuff and hire advisors. If you dip dev your land you should start making decent money soon.

### Genoa
![](https://i.imgur.com/vzwW21G.png)
(Entreponeur, Navigator, Naieve enthousiast)

It was AI-controlled for a bit too hard to rate it justly but for what I can rate; 13.5 income, started with trade so I guess you are going for a trade built which can be loads of fun! Infinite money for everybody. Doing its thing in Crimea with the COTS and giving goods produced I guess? I will follow your progress closely!

### Brandenburg
![](https://i.imgur.com/iSvRx4G.png)
(Conquer, Greedy, Zealot)

Didn't core much but somehow still behind in adm tech. I guess he half cored a decent amount but that land isn't really good for you until you fill core it. Income at 10 is low. Get the +1 mana privileges and take all lvl 1 advisors (I know you can't afford it now but it's fine.) Lag behind in dip tech a bit and dip dev your good trade goods to get some money. 

### Lubeck
![](https://i.imgur.com/BJA5Z1h.png)
(Fierce negociator, entrepreneur, carefull)

First of all; thank you for staying merchant republic so many people are dum-dums and go out of it (looking at you bob). Making 14.7 ducats a month right now with "only" 9.4 from trade. Should attack Wolgast and take that Centre of trade for more monies. Overall though looking oke; bit behind in ideas but seeing this Lubeck makes me happy.

## D tier

### Milan
![](https://i.imgur.com/sNS8bYJ.png)
(Righeous, Secretive, Naive Enthusiast)

The little Milan that could!
I feel like your income should be higher than 9 but I don't know where you are missing out, obviously, the high autonomy in the former savoy land is a problem but still.
Anyway looking oke, love to see republics and the ambrosian republic is pretty good! Bit boxed in though so that will be a problem.
### Brunswick
![](https://i.imgur.com/bv3eN24.png)
(Naive Enthusiast, Sinner, Bold Fighter)

Don't be disappointed little Brunswick you are doing good!
It's just that others are doing better. Income is low because well Germany, you are spread out over 2 trade nodes with no Centre of Trades very sad.
I expect great things young padawan! (Also sad AI at the end and braindead

### Hesse
![](https://i.imgur.com/QNzTfZT.png)
(Emezzlar, Indulgent, Well Connected)
5 income is not a lot, 0 ideas and behind in tech. This nation needs some TLC. What I do like about it though is that it has near max manpower. I know it was AI-controlled after the break (don't think I saw you post your edits yet). Still, the nation could be looking much better.

### Desmond
![](https://i.imgur.com/k79ZvKd.png)
(Expensionist, Well connected, Entrepreneur)

5.5 income and 4 explorations. Seems like everybody is going to the Caribbean asap. Don't know if you are going to exile or not since you do own a chunk of land. We will see I guess.

## E(xile) tier

### Munster
![](https://i.imgur.com/lHPFQlA.png)
(Expansionist, Navigator, Greedy)

The Irish one; is exiling has good ideas not much more to say about it.
## F tier
All those brave soldiers that lost their lives fighting for nothing but greed o7.

# Africa

## B tier

### Mamluks
![](https://i.imgur.com/rupDCvm.png)
(Obsessive Perfectionist, Indulgent, Well Connected)

The Strongest power in Africa still but its starting to show cracks. Income at 28 is good, but it's not *great*. Only 1 advisor means you are having shitty tech mana generation only 1 idea in quality.
Unlucky on the ruler through a 2/2/1 and that is with +2 adm from mamluk government. 

### Tunis
![](https://i.imgur.com/RKyCSn3.png)
(Incorruptible, Tactical Genius, Babbling Buffon)

Carthage when? But seriously looking sexy Fyren. Profited the most from the dead of morocco and cut off Iberia and got the gold mine.
Good on tech and 3/7 quality is okay as well. 21 income and allied with the other strongest nation of Mamluks. You just need to somehow get to form Carthage.

## C tier

### Mali
![](https://i.imgur.com/WUWHnvd.png)
(Calm, Embezzler, Infertile)

20 income for mali is not good. You have 3 gold mines so you should be making much more! In fact, you have more than 600 points banked and you have been keeping up with dip tech. Just stop doing that and dev those gold mines. use the money to fund an epic economy and higher high-level advisors for all that sweet many!
When you form the UAR you will instantly be my favorite nation btw. I think it's going to be so much fun and strong!

### Kilwa
![](https://i.imgur.com/3QUIf0E.png)
(Craven, Calm, Careful) (hey 3 time a c)

25 income. 9.5 from gold since you "only" have two and "only" one is deved. Get those gold mines from Mutapa asap for all that sweet money and from the Rozvzi Empire for better ideas! I don't know if you have a deal with Ajuraan but if not you should try to get the centers of trade from Pate soon as well.


## D tier

### Rassids
![](https://i.imgur.com/vwhY9bn.png)
(Careful, Craven, Industrious)

9 income behind in tech and ideas but a lot of mana stored up. He is going to get adm 5 soon and then he can get 2-3 ideas in whatever mil idea he picks pretty quick. I didn't snake for the Ethiopian gold mines though which is a bit of a sad.
### Ajuraan
![](https://i.imgur.com/xbL3woe.png)
(Pirous, Zealot, Craven)

Not looking great. Oef never realized that the tier 3 African reform would be in place of 10% morale for theocrasies. Well, that sucks. Luckily swapping is cheap though. Also, you were AI so ask for some save dits yeye.

### Imerina
![](https://i.imgur.com/B559Fx2.png)
(Naive Enthusiast, Bold Fighter, Sinner)

He no cbed Aussa.... in Ethiopia.... dafuaq?
15 loans behind in tech and ideas just shy of 7 income. *something* needs to happen for this nation to improve.

## E(xile) tier

### Stronkhai
![](https://i.imgur.com/TWpmlI5.png)
(Expansionist, Embezzler, Infertile)

You do you my man not much for me to look at since well you are exiling but I have faith in you that you will be a strong independent tag who doesn't need no man.

# Asia 1
Where did I draw my arbitrary line? Well, you will find out pretty soon.

## A tier
### Timmie
![](https://i.imgur.com/Sx3MHyF.png)
(Strict. Conqueror, Well Connected)

Timmie is doing great! 40 income and nearly 50k manpower. The point where is lacking is 2/7 ideas and it's a shame he already popped his missions. Still, this is a beast with mountain forts. Pro-tip you do not want to fight him. Estates could be looking better. Looks like he preparing for an Indian campaign considering he allied Bengal. Should be an interesting next session!
### Bahmanis
![](https://i.imgur.com/Zysh1PE.png)
(Free Thinker, Scholar, Sinner)

Let's be honest; I didn't do shit this game yet. Allied people around me and only ate AI. It shows however one of the few nations in the world with 7 ideas, institution almost unlocked, and when it is tech 7 mil and adm will mean I can get Eco ideas before anybody else. 33 income is oke but it could be much higher (went a bit overboard with vassals). Max manpower "only" 32k with 39 FL because of quality.

## B tier
### Jaunpur
![](https://i.imgur.com/4TCN8BJ.png)
(Careful, Entrepreneur, Secretive)

Ohw he is a great power; did not realize before I tagged in haha. Income at 33 is oke and 35/44 FL means he has a decent army. (55k max since he went 4 ideas in quality). I like the nations it is allied with his neighbors and has a Nepal formation locked in as soon as he integrates his vassal. (damn he is even getting innovativeness from Quantity naicu)

### Bengal
![](https://i.imgur.com/83GUjdf.png)
(Well Connected, Greedy, Intricate Webweaver)

30 income and 4/7 ideas! Still mil tech 5 with no points banked up really and no renaissance. You can greed but you take a big risk!
Manpower at 44k, 28/37 FL, and alliance with Timurids make him no easy target, however. 

### Tibet
![](https://i.imgur.com/zZtCrld.png)
(Strict, Cruel, Secretive)

I don't always agree with Spilberk but he is making it work! Tibet has 20 income and 4/7 quality ideas. lots of adm stored up so he can rush through eco ideas! 100 PP. He can swap theocracy or a horde with his missions so I'm curious what he will do!

## C tier
### Vijayanagar
![](https://i.imgur.com/wT3ntsG.png)
(Embezzler, Kind-Hearted, Indulgent)

Vijayanagar had a blessed session!
Really needed the session of peace and it shows in his income graph. Doubled to 29 ducats a month and will increase even further since average autonomy is still 38.
With his economy back on track it's now time to get some good level advisors and power through the tech/ideas because 4/5/5 (can take mil tech 6) still leaves much left to be desired.

### Oirat
![](https://i.imgur.com/6hDCFwN.png)
(Craven, Infertile, Calm)

It was partly AI but still. I feel like he missed his good window to attack china as a horde. Meaning he probably will have to wait till tech 10 now to try again. Will Oirat still be relevant then though? income is at 11.5; at least as a horde he has high FL and manpower. 
### Uzbek
![](https://i.imgur.com/sUCrSdt.png)
(Strict, Well Connected, Cruel)

A bit weaker than his Oirat neighbor but he has ideas! Well, one; and it's in Horde ideas (the one's Paradox is adding in 1.31). Doesn't matter much since he is allied with Oirat and with Timmie so he clearly wants to go west.

### Hormuz
![](https://i.imgur.com/bgeBQqw.png)
(Entrepreneur, Naive Enthusiast, Calm)

Always a good sign when a Hormuz survives! Secretly OP as well! 10% dev cost school and 15% coastal desert cost privilege makes for cheap deving. However, he has no ideas and 5/5/6 tech. If only he had some ideas I would be so happy.


### Qara Qoyunlu
![](https://i.imgur.com/lxVCjlH.png)
(Cruel, Zealot, Careful)

15 income; losing almost 7 a month now though because of forts and army maintenance. Seems to have had a lot of rebel problems making him be out of manpower. Regardless mothball some of those forts (bordering your ally timmie/ottoman) Rebel suppress can prevent pretty much all further rebellions. Ideally, you want to lower your autonomy but you want to do that *before* the rebels pop not after. (I would suggest swapping your tier 2 government reform btw.) No ideas but oke tech. Can become easily a B-tier nation with some tender love and care.

# Asia 2
These are the others obviously.

## A tier
### Zhejiang
![](https://i.imgur.com/eklNvq0.png)
(Free Thinker, Entrepreneur, Calm)

Oh my god, what a good nation! It must have a blessed ruler! Why yes dear reader it does it has a 5/4/5 Krediax Fang Ruler. God, I like Zhejiang. As a nation period. God the Hangzhou node but what now? Who will die in China all the AI are gone so it's wartime!
Zhejiang has 6 ideas (quality) good on tech and 38 income. 30k manpower and 44 FL. It's the strongest nation in China Right now. Let's see what he does with the power.

### Manchu
![](https://i.imgur.com/U9owAoN.png)
 (Conqueror, Zealot, Entrepreneur)

It's hard for me to judge hordes oke; I'm not a horde guy. But I *think* this Manchu is pretty strong. Income is only at 18 but 61k manpower is pretty good. 1 idea and behind in tech is a bit less strong. Close to getting renaissance and when he does with the points saved up he can catch up in tech. Stronger than the other hordes that is for sure!

## B tier
### Hong Kong
![](https://i.imgur.com/ZPgqQzY.png)
(Entrepreneur, Well Connected, Free Thinker)

6 ideas up to date in tech and 21 income. Then why so low you ask? Well, he went exploration, not a big fan. If people want to kill you they can. Still for what you are trying to do you are doing it well so kudos to you!

## C tier
### Henan
![](https://i.imgur.com/wOnFC0K.png)
(Well Connected, Fierce Negotiator, Secretive)

Deving goes brrrrrr! What he needs ideas for that first? Disgusting!
Non the less Henan is making 15 ducats but only 3 from the gold mine lets see what is going on there 55% autonomy you love to see it. Prob should move your capital there. 3 ideas Up to date on tech could even take tech 7 already. Looking good except for the autonomy. It's prob time to stop having that low Crowland.

### Ava
![](https://i.imgur.com/3UjJKWb.png)
(Industrious, Secretive, Naive Enthusiast)

Was only played one session but got some edits to compensate. However, being played still would have been better! Income is at 20, 3 ideas, and an FL of 23 means it's a decent nation. Up to date in tech as well so that's all gucci.

## D tier
### Khmer
![](https://i.imgur.com/3DZjpey.png)
(Bold Fighter, Just, Infertile)

No ideas yet which is a shame but he is getting close to adm 5! Uhm a lvl 3 adm advisor which is good and all since he is discounted by why not just a lvl 1 mil and dip advisor? I know you only have 14 income but it's fine....  it's fine.... prob.
### Majapahit
![](https://i.imgur.com/LRsmzCy.png)
(Bold Fighter, Well Connected, Navigator)

D-d-d-d-d-double supremacy of the crown, somehow nice. Behind in tech and picked expansion (but no ideas in it yet) Should prob go for quality since mil is the one category your arnt behind in.
17 income is oke. Could be a bit more if you steal trade power from Pasai.

### Uesugi
![](https://i.imgur.com/xvzDk1F.png)
(Strict, Babbling Buffoon, Embezzler)

13 income is oke I suppose. I bet he can't wait until the gold mines spawn for that sweet sweet money. 1 idea in exploration so we are having a colonizing Japan guys! Let's see what they going to do.

### Malacca
![](https://i.imgur.com/NhxmIPS.png)
(Naive Enthusiast, Well Connected, Tactical Genius)

10 income behind in tech and no ideas. Just sold and seized land but since his equilibrium is so low they all are disloyal give them some more privileges! the prestige one for burghers is a no brainer.
Allied with almost all his neighbors so he should be fine at least.

## E tier
### Brunei
![](https://i.imgur.com/k3Q8Z9n.png)
(Expansionist, Well Connected, Greedy)

Brunei is vibing with his southeast Asia friends! Putting himself into debt to colonize. He isn't in any danger so why not? He got those sexy spice islands which will be amazing! Behind in tech and 3 ideas into expansion. This nation is playing for the long term!

### Shimazu
![](https://i.imgur.com/X26VwH4.png)
(Zealot, Strict, Architectural Visionary)

8 income, behind in tech, and no ideas. But it's japan so it's sort of understandable, cant vassal feed in Japan so sad. Allied with the new shogun Uesugi and currently invading Korea. Let's see what Japan does!

## F(xile) tier
### Korea
![](https://i.imgur.com/cVgLOfm.png)
(Expansionist, Scholar, Charismatic Negotiator)

Lost a war against Wei and Manchu but seems to have made a deal considering Wei is helping him right now against Japan. 3 ideas in exploration so I think he wants to exile but I'm not 100% sure. Up to date in tech and 8 income. 



