# Tai-Bun-Thong-Sin e LMJ beh kai-cho Tai-lo?

* Goân-bûn: https://groups.google.com/g/taigu/c/IIpWB6uyplk/m/ElpYzmFcMmoJ

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Jun 12, 2008, 12:32:32 PM
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Tak-ke ho:
Goa khaoN TBTS te 167 ki te 10 iah e pian-chip-chu kong:
TBTS u-teng ui 168 ki khi chhai-iong KIP kong-pou e Tai-lo-sek LMJ.
M-chai kai-pian e goan-in si siaN?

Hak-khiam

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TADA Kei
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Jun 12, 2008, 2:31:18 PM
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Nng-thou chhim kut. Na si long bo POJ e khan-but tioh hai a.

TADA

Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]> wrote:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 5:29:22 PM
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列位 sian-pai 平安,

台灣羅馬字 kam m 是進前教羅 kap TLPA sio 整會--出-來 e 系統？
我 e 記得有 1 屆世界台文營，咱做伙講 beh 支持整合，beh tshui-
sak 台羅，kam m 是？

台灣羅馬字 kap 教羅相容度 100%，咱當初時濟濟人連署 beh 用，
陳雷老師 ma 講：咱整合 e 系統，咱家己無 beh 用，按呢是啥人beh
用？

Kam 講列位 sian-pai 有啥特別 e 考慮？

多謝！

2008/6/12 TADA Kei <[e-mail]>:

--
Lau, Seng-hian

～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～

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Chuniok
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Jun 12, 2008, 7:31:53 PM
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大家 平安

台灣公論報 蕃薯園 tùi TT2206期起mā lóng
全面改做 台羅傳統版

台語信望愛、客語信望愛mā lóng ē-tàng點選台羅來讀。
Án-ne台語文層面tsiah會廣闊，kiám-m̄是?

大家tio̍h來支持大家辛苦整合出來ê台羅
Án-ne台語文tsiah會出頭天，kiám-m̄是?

****
台灣公論報 蕃薯園 tui3 TT2206期起ma7 long2
全面改做 台羅傳統版

台語信望愛、客語信望愛ma7 long2 e7-tang3點選台羅來讀。
An2-ne台語文層面tsiah會廣闊，kiam2-m7是?

大家tioh8來支持大家辛苦整合出來e5台羅
An2-ne台語文tsiah會出頭天，kiam2-m7是?

俊育

2008/6/12 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

--
基本人權：使用母語活出台灣人ê尊嚴！
Lim Chun-iok
http://sloan.fhl.net(台語點字)
http://taigu.fhl.net
http://hakka.fhl.net
http://taigi.fhl.net
http://tailo.fhl.net

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Jun 12, 2008, 7:44:03 PM
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Takke ho :

Tongchhoe u 1-koa lang chhiammia chichhi TL, si inui chhekliok siong tong-i sak 1-tho chenghap e hethong, tuihu TY, mkoh peng bo piausi oanchoan chichhi TL.

Kauiokpou kongpou TL, i e konghoat si siaNme ? beh kuihoan kaukhosu, bo beh kuihoan siahoe suiong.

Chitma kai iong TL, ma bohoattou houNjim/kaipian POJ e leksu.

Thongiong e lang kong sak 2-tang a, TL iahbo tittioh kiongsek. Mkoh, to sng lan chia e lang long iong TL, goanlai TY e lang, kangkhoan bo iong TL, in kangkhoan e kong bo kiongsek.

Hongkhi POJ kai iong TL simsi TG to thang toa hoat-tian ?

Tui goa lai kong, goa bo tong-ki kai iong TL, tuliau beh enghu chengsek e khochhi, chhiuN goa chincheng chhamka "Taioan Banlamgu phengim pisai", si koaNhong e tiuNhap, goa ma puttitput kong chitr-e gugian kiochoe "Taioan banlamgu", chhiaN lan tangtiong u kui-e lang chanseng chite miachheng ?

Nasi ui goa e choangiap, chusin chhuli e kaktou, suijian long esai cho, mkoh POJ kah TL choattui si bo kang e chhuli hong-hoat. Tui goa lai kong , che si chin toa e chhapiat.

Ungian 6.12

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:31:53 +0800, Lim Chun-iok wrote

IuN Un-gian 楊允言
Tai-han Chu-kang-he Chou-li kau-siu大漢資工系助理教授
Tai-tai Chu-kang-he Phok-su hau-soan-jin 台大資工系博士候選人
http://iug.csie.dahan.edu.tw

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Jun 12, 2008, 8:56:37 PM
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Tak-ke ho:
Goa tui TBTS beh oaN Tai-lo, m-si kai e-tang chiap-siu.
TBTS 1991 ni chhong-khan, goa ma chha-put-to hit si-chun khai-si
chiap-chhiok Tai-gi thak-sia.
Tu-liau ti Ka-gi e Se-mng kau-hoe kah peng-iu khui POJ pan i-goa, goa
koh bat khi Liong-kng hiaN
hia khoaN i an-choaN cheng-li bun-ko, phah-ji tah iu-phio. Ti Hawaii
ma u chham-ka thak-chia lian-gi-hoe.
Tu-liau Tai-gi-bang i-goa, goa siuN chin che Tai-gi-kai e peng-iu
long-si thau-koe TBTS sek-sai e.
TBTS si chit e bin-kan e chou-chit, bo su-iau chhap cheng-hu an-choaN kui-teng,
TLPA bo ka phah-to, Thong-iong ma bo ka phah-to, siuN be-kau si lan
ka-ki-lang beh ka oaN-tiau.

Tai-lo e chian-tiuN ti kau-iok-kai, i ui-it u-e ong-pai si i si KIP
kui-teng e he-thong.
I na u-chai-tiau ti kau-kho-su teng-bin tat-seng phiau-chun-hoa,
kan-ta iong i chit tho, an-ne i tioh e seng-kong.
Na bo ti chia he-kang-hu, ki-tha e chok-ui khiong-kiaN long si peh-liau-kang e.

Tai-lo si-m-si e seng-kong kah kiong-sek bo-koan, kah Thong-iong ma bo-koan.
Khah u-koan-he e si I kam u-hoat-tou ti kau-iok-the-che lai kian-lip:

1. siu-koe Tai-lo hun-lian u su-sia kah kau-hak leng-lek e su-chu;
2. kau-chai e LMJ kam u hoat-tou thong-it, kan-ta iong Tai-lo;
3. soeh-hok ka-tiuN, kau-su kah hak-seng chi-chhi LMJ kau-hak;
4. bo-gi su-chu-jin-cheng kho-chhi kan-ta iong Tai-lo.

Koh tiong-hok chit pai chian-tiuN ti kau-iok-kai, m-si ti sia-hoe e khan-but.

Lau-sit-kong, Tai-gi-bun hou goa khah him-siong e si i e chhau-kin lek-liong,
bo su-iau koaN-hong e chi-chhi, TBTS e-tang pan 17 tang, taN lan kam u su-iau
ui-tioh phoe-hap koaN-hong e phiau-chun kai-oaN he-thong?

Chap-goa-tang-cheng Tan Phek-siu bok-su bat chhoa khi chham-koan New
York e chit keng kau-hoe,
i kong chit keng kau-hoe, kah Bi-kok cheng-hu e lip-tiuN oan-choan
to-peng. Tai-gi-bun tong-cho chit
e hoan-tui un-tong kah koaN-hong m-thang siuN chiap-kin, m-thang ka
ng-bang khng ti koaN-hong,
ai keng-teng bin-kan e lek-liong. Goa khoaN koe e gi-gian un-tong chin
chio si kho koaN-hong seng-kong e.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/12 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 9:43:45 PM
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列位 sian-pái 平安,

若是 tsit-ê 講法：「咱 ta̍k-ê lóng 用台羅，mā 無法度 hōo 通用 ê
人放棄通用，所以咱無必要 kā 整合 ê 系統來使用」ē-tàng 成立，
按呢：當原初咱做整合 mā 是完全無必要--ê，因為照 tsit-ê logic，
咱當初時做整合，mā 無法度 hōo hit 當 tsūn ê 通用派放棄通用，
kám m̄ 是？　時間無仝，道理 sio-siâng，hit tsūn ê 理路，taⁿ 是
án-tsuáⁿ 無 koh-tsài 是理路？

當然咱尊重 suî 人使用 suî 人 kah 意 ê 文字系統，tse 是個人 ê
權利，教育部 kap 任何人／機構，mā 無可能要求 siáⁿ-mih 人用
siáⁿ-mih 系統，tsit 點咱完全同意。

M̄-koh，就運動 ê 角度來看--leh？

TLPA ê 人已經差不多放棄 TLPA--a，包括原底用 TLPA ê 海翁
台語文學 kap 金安 ê 教科書，lóng 已經全面使用台羅--a，若是
用教羅 ê 人 koh 轉去使用教羅，án-ne，tse kap 整合 tsìn 前有
siáⁿ-mih 無 sio-siâng？ Kám m̄ 是 kāng 款分 3 大派，精差「
TLPA」變做「台羅」niā-tiāⁿ。

換話來講，咱尊重個人選擇文字系統 ê 權利，m̄-koh 自運動 ê
角度來看，咱若無 beh 用台羅，就差不多 kan-taⁿ 是原底 TLPA
ê 人 teh 用台羅，tse 等於是倒退轉去無整合以前 ê 狀況，tsìn
前講 ê「整合」，是 1 句白賊？

「改用台羅台語 kám 就 ē 大發展？」tsit 句話咱 mā thang 好換
來問講：「改用台羅台語 kám 就 ē 大 lak 衰？」，或者是咱 koh
thang 問講：「無 beh 用台羅台語 kám 就 ē 大發展？無 beh 用台
羅台語 kám 就 ē khah 興？」 Tsiah-ê 問題 kap 文字系統選擇，
看--起-來並無交枝連。

以上是個人 ê 末見，多謝！

2008/6/12 Iunn Un-gian <[e-mail]>:
> 2008/6/12 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
>
列位 sian-pai 平安,
>
> 台灣羅馬字 kam m 是進前教羅 kap TLPA sio 整會--出-來 e 系統？
> 我 e 記得有 1 屆世界台文營，咱做伙講 beh 支持整合，beh tshui-
> sak 台羅，kam m 是？
>
> 台灣羅馬字 kap 教羅相容度 100%，咱當初時濟濟人連署 beh 用，
> 陳雷老師 ma 講：咱整合 e 系統，咱家己無 beh 用，按呢是啥人beh
> 用？
>
> Kam 講列位 sian-pai 有啥特別 e 考慮？
>
> 多謝！
>
> 2008/6/12 TADA Kei <[e-mail]>:
>
>

> Nng-thou chhim kut. Na si long bo POJ e khan-but tioh hai a.
>
> TADA
>
> Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
Tak-ke ho:
>
> Goa khaoN TBTS te 167 ki te 10 iah e pian-chip-chu kong:
> TBTS u-teng ui 168 ki khi chhai-iong KIP kong-pou e Tai-lo-sek LMJ.
> M-chai kai-pian e goan-in si siaN?
>
> Hak-khiam
>
>

>
>
>

>

> --
> Lau, Seng-hian
>
> ～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
>
>

>

> --
> 基本人權：使用母語活出台灣人ê尊嚴！
> Lim Chun-iok
> http://sloan.fhl.net(台語點字)
> http://taigu.fhl.net
> http://hakka.fhl.net
> http://taigi.fhl.net
> http://tailo.fhl.net
>

--
IuN Un-gian 楊允言
Tai-han Chu-kang-he Chou-li kau-siu大漢資工系助理教授
Tai-tai Chu-kang-he Phok-su hau-soan-jin 台大資工系博士候選人
http://iug.csie.dahan.edu.tw

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 9:56:42 PM
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我贊成學謙老師所講：台羅 ē 成功--無，ài 看 tī 教育界 ê tshui-sak 是 m̄ 是
成功；我 mā 贊成語言運動 bē-īng-tit kan-taⁿ 靠官方 ê 力量。

M̄-koh，請問：「有啥人 ē 想 beh 去學 1 套 kan-taⁿ ē-tàng tī 學校用 ê 文字
系統？」

母語教育訪視，有老師反應是按怎上主要 ê 台文刊物，無 beh 用台羅，無
beh hōo in ē-tàng tī 教學使用，無 beh hōo 學生學了就有 phong-phài ê 資
源 thang 讀。

台羅若 beh tī 教育界 tshui-sak ē 行，民間 ê 母語運動者 kám 無需要 kā
支持？

語言運動 bē-īng 得 kan-taⁿ 靠官方 ê 力量，m̄-koh，語言運動就是政治，mā
bē-sái 抱「m̄ 是你死就是我活」ê 思考，bē-tàng suî 人 lóng 無 beh saⁿ
tháu-thuah，beh 踏硬單單 ài ka-tī ê 系統 tsiâⁿ，kám m̄ 是--leh？
> 2008/6/12 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
>
> > 列位 sian-pai 平安,
>
> > 台灣羅馬字 kam m 是進前教羅 kap TLPA sio 整會--出-來 e 系統？
> > 我 e 記得有 1 屆世界台文營，咱做伙講 beh 支持整合，beh tshui-
> > sak 台羅，kam m 是？
>
> > 台灣羅馬字 kap 教羅相容度 100%，咱當初時濟濟人連署 beh 用，
> > 陳雷老師 ma 講：咱整合 e 系統，咱家己無 beh 用，按呢是啥人beh
> > 用？
>
> > Kam 講列位 sian-pai 有啥特別 e 考慮？
>
> > 多謝！
>
> > 2008/6/12 TADA Kei <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> Nng-thou chhim kut. Na si long bo POJ e khan-but tioh hai a.
>
> >> TADA

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Jun 12, 2008, 10:05:56 PM
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Senghian :

Goa bo jim-ui TLPA e lang long ikeng oanchoan chichhi TL a, tuliau Ang Uijin, goa nachhiuN iah bo khoaNtioh chin benghian e le. Choekun Taihak ihakiN chhutpan e ihak Taigu khopun, masi kangkhoan kesiok suiong TLPA.

Iong TL TG kam to e toa laksoe ? Goa bo anne jim-ui, goa kamkah enghiong chin soe.

Goa chincheng cho e Taigubun untong hongtam, Kok-su-koan e ke-ek, hongtam 13 e lang, kitiong u 7-e lang goanlai si iong POJ e, hongtamko si chuntiong siuhongchia e iongji. Chit 7-e lang laitoe, kanna 1-e lang kai iong TL. Kitha e lang, u chhamu liansu e, goa u ka in mng, inui hongtamko si ti kongko liauau oanseng e, in ka goa kong, iong POJ to ho a. Chit tiam hou takke chhamkho. Mui 1-e chhiammia e lang, u i e siuNhoat, bo pitjian piausi i to beh kai iong TL.

Tongchhoesi KhinhoaN hiaN tih sak TL e sichun, goa sutoeha ma u mng i , kasu chenghap chhutlai, li kam beh hongkhi POJ ? I hitchun ka goa kong , boe7.

Li chitma cho Kauhoe kongpo e ke-ek, ma ai bintui 1-e buntoe, kam esai ka KHKP e loeiong kai cho TL ? Botekkhak esai kong che ikeng bo pankoan buntoe, mkoh che kisit u khansiap tioh "tuchok jin-keh koan".

Tongjian, goa ma jim-ui, huho e soantek si kojin e chuiu. Tongchhoe TL chhutlai e sichun, goa kah Hakkhiam hiaN long jim-ui, sekai siong koh ke 1-tho TG e huho a.

Ungian 6.12
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:43:45 +0800, Lau Seng-hian wrote

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TADA Kei
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Jun 12, 2008, 10:19:23 PM
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Goa siuN e-sai chun-tiong KIP chhui-sak TL.
Sou-i, khia ti Taioan e Bong-po na beh iong TL bo iau-kin.
M-ku, TBTS si hai-goa Taioan lang e siaN-im.
Kap Tiong-hoa Bin-kok bo saN u koan-he.
Sou-i goa kam-kak chin kho-sioh.
Un-tong eng-kai si ai kiaN khah kek-toan e lou-soaN.
Ai u kiaN kek-toan e se-lek, ma ai u kiaN tiong-kan e se-lek.
Ai hou-siong su-te-ha hap-chok lai lok-sit bok-piau.

Lan na bo tiong-si lan e pun-goan,
e hou lang khin-si. Lu niu hou lang lu hou lang chhiuN khi.

Goa jin-ui siong ho e, tioh si, lan su-iong POJ,
tong-si, ti Tiong-hoa-bin-kok Taioan e heng-cheng teng-koan chi-chhi TL,
piau-si lan teh chun-siu kap TLPA e hiaN-ti sou-cho e iok-sok.

Na si TBTS it-teng su-iau chiap-lap TL, goa siong ng-bang TBTS khoaN
chok-chia iong POJ ah-si TL, long chiap-lap. Chun-tiong chok-chia e
sip-koan.

TADA

2008/6/12 <[e-mail]>:

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 10:26:43 PM
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Ungian 老師平安，

學術的 ê 使用我 khah 無觀察--著，m̄-koh 以早 TLPA
出產文本上濟 ê 所在，就是刊物（海翁）kap 教科書
，目今 uì tsit 2 方面來看，TLPA 的實 khah 大面已經
取台羅--a。

允言老師所舉台大醫學院出版 ê 《醫學台語》課本，
tsit-ê 例博元有說明--過，in 當原初整理 kap 出版 ê 過
程已經用TLPA 處理、定稿，所以 tsiah ē 用 TLPA ê
款式出現，並 m̄ 是 thiau 意故 beh 用 TLPA，án-ne
看--起-來，tse m̄ 是動機 ê 問題。

台語文運動受訪者，kap 使用者，當然有 in 選擇系統
ê 自由 kap 權利，無任何人有權 ē-tàng 強迫任何人接
受 siáⁿ-mih 款系統，所以我 ê 意見，tsiâu 是自運動 ê
角度來出發。

允言老師所舉《教會公報》 ê 例，tú 好證明「無人 ē-
tàng 放棄／消滅 POJ」，就親像日文雖然 uì 侯文改用
戰前日文，koh tī 戰後 sió-khuá 修改變做現代日文，m̄
-koh，無人 ē-tàng 有法度「消滅／放棄」侯文 kap 戰
前日文，mā 無人 ē-tàng 阻止任何人 beh 用 siáⁿ-mih
方式來寫日文。

--
Lau, Seng-hian

～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～

> > > 2008/6/12 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
> > > 列位 sian-pai 平安,
>
> > > 台灣羅馬字 kam m 是進前教羅 kap TLPA sio 整會--出-來 e 系統？
> > > 我 e 記得有 1 屆世界台文營，咱做伙講 beh 支持整合，beh tshui-
> > > sak 台羅，kam m 是？
>
> > > 台灣羅馬字 kap 教羅相容度 100%，咱當初時濟濟人連署 beh 用，
> > > 陳雷老師 ma 講：咱整合 e 系統，咱家己無 beh 用，按呢是啥人beh
> > > 用？
>
> > > Kam 講列位 sian-pai 有啥特別 e 考慮？
>
> > > 多謝！
>
> > > 2008/6/12 TADA Kei <[e-mail]>:
>
> > > Nng-thou chhim kut. Na si long bo POJ e khan-but tioh hai a.
> > >
> > > TADA

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 10:33:41 PM
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我無認為 TL 是『種花皿國』--ê，『種花國』無 hiah 偉大，
m̄ 是 hōo i kha̍p--著 ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ 就 lóng ài 變做 i--ê。

『種花皿國』tī 政黨有輪替 tsìn 前，就 tī 學校內底 sak 時
間少少 ê 母語教育--a，tse 並無代表咱 ê 母語已經去 hōo
『種花國』佔--去-a，母語猶原是咱 ê 母語，mā 永遠是咱
ê 母語。

運動 ài khah 極端--leh，我真贊成，親像 Welsh tī 路--ni̍h
改路牌文字，抗議英語殖民 ê 方式，taⁿ 咱 lóng iáu 無做
--過，m̄ 知咱是 m̄ 是準備 beh 使極步，去 hông 告去 hông
落監--a？

體制內 ê 改革，只要是好--ê，就是改革，體制外 ê 反動，
mā 有可能是實 tú 實 ê 反動，所以體制 m̄ 是真正 ê 界線
，運動 ê 目標 kap 理路 tsiah 是。

以上只是個人末見，多謝！

On 6月12日, 下午10時19分, "Kei TADA" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Goa siuN e-sai chun-tiong KIP chhui-sak TL.
> Sou-i, khia ti Taioan e Bong-po na beh iong TL bo iau-kin.
> M-ku, TBTS si hai-goa Taioan lang e siaN-im.
> Kap Tiong-hoa Bin-kok bo saN u koan-he.
> Sou-i goa kam-kak chin kho-sioh.
>
> Un-tong eng-kai si ai kiaN khah kek-toan e lou-soaN.
> Ai u kiaN kek-toan e se-lek, ma ai u kiaN tiong-kan e se-lek.
> Ai hou-siong su-te-ha hap-chok lai lok-sit bok-piau.
>
> Lan na bo tiong-si lan e pun-goan,
> e hou lang khin-si. Lu niu hou lang lu hou lang chhiuN khi.
>
> Goa jin-ui siong ho e, tioh si, lan su-iong POJ,
> tong-si, ti Tiong-hoa-bin-kok Taioan e heng-cheng teng-koan chi-chhi TL,
> piau-si lan teh chun-siu kap TLPA e hiaN-ti sou-cho e iok-sok.
>
> Na si TBTS it-teng su-iau chiap-lap TL, goa siong ng-bang TBTS khoaN
> chok-chia iong POJ ah-si TL, long chiap-lap. Chun-tiong chok-chia e
> sip-koan.
>
> TADA
>
> 2008/6/12 <[e-mail]>:

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TADA Kei
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Jun 12, 2008, 10:41:49 PM
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Goa si hoan-lo kong, "si-koe oa toa-peng" e su-siong,
e hai tioh kui-e Taioan e hong-hiong.
Tioh si "tho-hiap" e hui-hiam-seng.
Ti Jit-pun e Tai-gi kau-chai, long chi-chhi POJ.
Sou-i TBTS soan-tek TL, e eng-hiong tioh ti Jit-pun tui kui-e Taioan
gi-bun chong-hong e in-siong. Tui-put-khi soan-tek POJ e Ong Iok-tek
sian-siN, Murakami (Chhun-siong) sian-siN, Higuchi (Thong-khau)
sian-siN. TeN Cheng-ho sian-siN, Ng Chiau-tong sian-siN.
Ia tui-put-khi chi-chhi POJ e cheng Taioan e chian-poe.

TADA

2008/6/12 <[e-mail]>:

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Senghian :

Hai-ang e pouhun goa khah bo siuNbeh kongkhai tholun, kui-e ketheng goa taikhai si chhengchho e.

Tuliau Taitai ihakiN e chhutpanphin igoa, kisit choekun ma iahkoh u TLPA e mihkiaN chhutpan, mkoh goa chhiupiN bo chuliau, bohoattou ku le. Tongki si annoa, goa bo jim-ui si toa buntoe, chichio TLPA beh kui-e kai cho TL si chin kantan e taichi. To chhinchhiuN gun choekun ka Iaukabun hoanek e siosoat, gun si iong POJ chengli e, mkoh Iaukabun hibong iong TL, 20-kui-ban-ji (?) e chuliau, goa ka POJ choan cho TL, bo chhiauke poaNkang e sikan (suijian u choan-oaN kangkhu, mkoh bohoattou 100% chengkhak, koh ai khi tiaucheng) (chit pun chu iahbe chhutpan)

Koksukoan chhutpan e hit pun chu, piautoe tosi "Taigubun ""untong"" " , i untong e kaktou, goa iah chhe bo chin ho e liiu beh soathok goa kaki ai kai iong TL. kouJitbun chitma bo siaN lang suiong a, mkoh POJ iahkoh chinchoe lang suiong, che si i bokang e souchai.

Ungian 6.12
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:26:43 -0700 (PDT), voyu.lau wrote

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 10:56:54 PM
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Tada san 所講--e tsit 部份是事實，我知影海外絕大多數 e
台語文教材是使用 POJ。 Tse ti 現實上來講，的確是 1 e
問題。

台灣人 khah 無團結，放尿 kiau 沙 be 做堆，所以 tsiah
tioh an-ne pha 遠路。

On 6月12日, 下午10時41分, "Kei TADA" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Goa si hoan-lo kong, "si-koe oa toa-peng" e su-siong,
> e hai tioh kui-e Taioan e hong-hiong.
> Tioh si "tho-hiap" e hui-hiam-seng.
>
> Ti Jit-pun e Tai-gi kau-chai, long chi-chhi POJ.
> Sou-i TBTS soan-tek TL, e eng-hiong tioh ti Jit-pun tui kui-e Taioan
> gi-bun chong-hong e in-siong. Tui-put-khi soan-tek POJ e Ong Iok-tek
> sian-siN, Murakami (Chhun-siong) sian-siN, Higuchi (Thong-khau)
> sian-siN. TeN Cheng-ho sian-siN, Ng Chiau-tong sian-siN.
> Ia tui-put-khi chi-chhi POJ e cheng Taioan e chian-poe.
>
> TADA
>
> 2008/6/12 <[e-mail]>:

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TADA Kei
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Jun 12, 2008, 11:00:53 PM
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Kam-sia Voyu hiaN e hoe-eng.
TL piau-beng kong, he si hak-hau lai-te e su-iong,
bo i-su iau-kiu sia-hoe e su-iong.

Sou-i lan na su-iong POJ, bo piau-si lan teh cho the-che-goa e un-tong.
Goa si ti-teh Jit-pun chhui-sak TG / POJ e lip-tiuN lai kong,
TBTS beh kai-cho TLPA si chit-e chin toa e ta-kek.

Tan Chui-piN / Chia Tiong-teng ss. e sit-pai si kiaN tiong-kan lou-soaN.
Be-ki-tit BCT e pun-goan.

Cheng-kheh e sim-thai e chhoa Taioan kiaN m-tioh lou.

Lan si-m-si ai khah thih-khi e.
Ng-bang lan kaN kong TL si POJ e chit-chiong.
POJ si TL e chit-chiong.

Na si kong kau-iok-kai su-iau TL e chok-phin,
TBTS koh e-sai iong POJ chhut-pan,
Web pan-pun e-sai hoan cho TL.

Goa e i-su si lan si-m-si iau-koh u khong-kan thang cheng-chhu.

TADA

2008/6/12 <[e-mail]>:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 12, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
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允言老師，

我知影--e 真有限，所以我 kan-tann 是就我所知--e 來講我
個人 e 看法。

我個人 e 想法 khah 現實，目標 kan-tann 1 e：希望台語文
振興。就我來講，約其略十冬短短，我就已經做過 2 擺 e
系統轉換，tsit 起 khian，我是學 MTL（林繼雄現代文書法）
，寫 3 冬外了後，發現 POJ tsiah 是上濟人使用 e 系統，
所以翻頭 koh 重學 POJ，無 ai 做運動 e 鎮路石，koh 寫 4
, 5 冬，發現 POJ kap TLPA 整合有 i e 必要性，就 koh 改
用 TL。

學術上來講，我 ma teh 整理 kap 研究用 POJ 寫 e 《教會
公報》。

我想，就學校 e 母語教師 kap 學生來講，發行量 khah 大
e 刊物用台羅，有心 beh 學 beh 教 e 人，應該 e 真歡喜、
感覺真利便，若教育體系 sak 了有成功，無的確咱在生 e 時
就看 e-tioh 台語文出頭天 e hit 1 工。

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Jun 13, 2008, 6:14:35 AM
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chin ku bo ti Taigibang kap tak-e tholun taichi--a
na chiu BP iah si TBTS si 1 hun chap-chi/chap-chi-sai e kak-tou
goa bo lip-tiuN piausi i-kian

na chiu untong e kak-tou
goa jinui chin-cheng "cheng-hap" chit hang taichi
chu hit-chun kau taN
punte to u chin che su-iau tholun e pou-hun

paukhoah hit-chun beh soeh-hok tak-e chi-chhi cheng-hap-pan e kong-hoat
kap chit-ma beh kai iong cheng-hap-pan e kong-hoat
cheng-au to chin chhiong-thut--a

koh lai, goa na iong koh khah khoah-bin e kak-tou lai khoaN
1) su-siong (chian5-te5) kap ki-sut bunte e chanchhu to-peng--khi
2) chian-liok kap chian-sut to-peng
3) bok-tek kap chhiu-toaN to-peng

tong-jian, tui "untong" e li-kai na bo-kang
kai2-thok8 to e bo-kang

Tekhoa

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 13, 2008, 7:03:56 AM
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Tekhoa 所講「paukhoah hit-chun beh soeh-hok tak-e chi-chhi

cheng-hap-pan e kong-hoat kap chit-ma beh kai iong cheng-hap
-pan e kong-hoat cheng-au to chin chhiong-thut--a」。

我有 1 e 感想：

親像我，並 m 是 hit 當 tsun 參加 ti 連署 kap 協調內底 e 人，我
kan-tann 是 1 e 單純支持母語運動 e 人，我無了解當原初 ti 連署
kap 協調中間，到底有 siann-mih 款講法 kap 策略是 ，我所聽、
所知--e，全全是 lin 對外聯合 e 信念、宣佈，tsiah-e 宣佈，就是
阮「普通人」所知--e 一切。

請問列位有參加 ti hit-e 過程中間 e sian-pai：

「Lin 當初時是 an-tsuann ka 阮講--e？ 我翻頭想 hit 屆 e 世界台
語文化營，lin 並無 ti hit 中間 ka 阮 tsiah-e 參與者講 he kan-tann
是"策略"，he kan-tann 是"戰術"，lin 並無說明 he m 是"目標，ma
m 是"大戰略"，我所聽--著--e，long 是 lin 真誠懇、真熱情 ka 阮
tsiah-e 支持者／跟 tue 者宣佈整合成功，我所聽--著-e，是 lin 真
用心、真努力 beh 說服阮用行動支持教羅 kap TLPA e 整合，tann
，lin beh 退轉去無整合進前 e 立場，tse 是 m 是代表 lin hit 當 tsun
是 teh ka 阮騙？ 就 1 e 參與者／跟 tue 者 e 角度來看，tsit 種做法
，kap 民進黨執政，講 1 套做 1 套，是有 siann-mih 無仝？？？」

我 iau e 記得宣佈整合無久，我就發覺 tsit 種言行無一致 e 情形--a
，hit 當 tsun 我真 giau 疑 ma 感覺真奇怪，就我 1 e 單純 e 參與者
／跟 tue 者來看，我已經照 lin hit 當 tsun 講 hoo 阮聽--e 理路，去
實踐整合 e 誠意 kap 信念--a，是 an-tsuann 結果是阮 tsiah-e 相信
--lin e 人行 ti 頭前，主導 kap hit 時 tsun huah kah 上大聲 e 人 khia
ti 原所在無動無 tan？

M-tsiah 我 e 請列位 sian-pai 翻頭想看當原初 lin 是按怎 ka 阮講--e
，lin e 新聞稿、資料 kap 發言 e 內容是 siann-mih，創 kah hiah-nih
大 e 過程中，阮所聽--著-e，原來並 m 是 lin e 真心話？原來，阮去
參加、實踐 e 結果，是阮 khah 戅，所以去 hoo 騙--去？

Kam 是按呢？

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Koan-he Tai-lo kap POJ e koan-he, goa sou li-kia e si chit e hun-kang
e koan-he, Ungian hiaN ma u kong-tioh.
TL ti kau-iok-kai phah-piaN, POJ bo beh ti kau-iok chit te ka i piaN,
na u lang jin-ui sou-ui e cheng-hap tioh-si
hou bo beh koh iong POJ, khiong-kiaN si chin toa e gou-kai. Ki-jian si
hun-kang, TL ai chiap-siu e kiam-giam
chu-iau tioh-si i ti kau-iok-kai u phah-chhut-sim-mih thian-ha, u
sim-mih seng-chiu.
TL ah-si jin-ho cheng-hu jin-teng e LMJ he-thong, ti kau-iok-siong
long khah chiam iu-se, goa khoaN chit-ma be-chio
Tai-gi-sou e hak-seng teh sia lun-bun tioh e iong TL, Thong-iong in-ui
I Phek-choaN chin phah-piaN khi Bin-chin-tong
koan-chhi iu-soeh ma u koa seng-chek,

TL chit-ma pi Thong-iong koh khah u te-ui, i beh kah Thong-iong piaN,
thong chu-iau e chian-tiuN ma si ti
kau-iok-kai. TL e seng-kong be? Chit e tiong-iau e chi-phiau tioh-si
sou-u kok-sio e Tai-gi kau-chai
oan-choan long iong chit tho. Goa chan-seng kau-iok-kai iong TL cho
ui-it e phiau-chun, ma chan-seng
kok-sio Tai-gi kau-chai long iong TL, na u lang beh lian-su, goa ma
goan-i chhiam-mia chi-chhi.

Ka ku e oaN sin e, put-ju chhong-cho koa sin e TL su-iong leng-ek.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/13 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 13, 2008, 2:31:42 PM
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文字標準化 tu-tu 好就是保存 1 e 語言真重要 e 手段，保存 hit-e 語言，
tsiah e-tang 維持多語／多元 e 環境。

咱明明看著台語文過去是 an-tsuann 無法度 ti 教育體系順利 tshui 動，
是因為「文字無標準化」，咱明明知影台語文是 an-tsuann ti 文學、傳
播、書面溝通發展受著阻礙，無法度真緊 ti 社會普及，hin 內底 1 e 足
主要 e 原因，ma 是因為「文字無標準化」，文字無標準化 e 結果，影
響台語文未來 e 發展 kap 生存，台語文 e 生存危機，就是「多語／多元
」環境 e 大危機！！！！！

Language may be thought of as a tool, which, when standardized, is
"cheaper to acquire and maintain" (Ray 1962:754).

1 e 語言 e 文字標準化，是發展 hit-e 語言，維護語言多元 e 正面工作
，m 是負面 e 路用。

2008/6/13 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 13, 2008, 2:51:29 PM
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Koh 有 tsit-kua 話我猶原想 beh koh 講--tsit-pai：

愈是誠心相信 e 人，愈是追求理想 e 人，是愈感覺 hong 騙--去 e 人。

真濟人真反對體制內、sio-thau-thuah（妥協）e 政治運作，講 beh 用
激烈、使極步 e 手段，m-koh，我記 kah 足清楚，無法度放 be 記--得
，hit 屆 e 世界台語文化營，kap 前前後後所讀著、看著、聽著 e 資訊
，明明是 beh 整合，我並無聽著 siann-mih「分工」e 資訊，我相信參
加 ti tsiah-e 活動內底 e 「一般人」，ma m 知影 tsit 款「內幕」e 消
息。

所以，阮去 hong 騙--去，是應該--e？？？

Tse kui-e 過程，就是體制內「宣佈=/=行動」e 手路，罵民進黨 e 人
，應該 long 真熟悉 tsit 種感覺 tsiah tioh。

若是講過去八冬，社運團體、基層運動有 1 種去 hoo 民進黨政府欺騙
、踢去邊--a e 感覺，按呢，阮 tsiah-e 單純 e 整合支持者，就 tu-tu 好
有 tsit 款 sio-siang e 感受。

On 6月13日, 下午2時31分, "Lau Seng-hian" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 文字標準化 tu-tu 好就是保存 1 e 語言真重要 e 手段，保存 hit-e 語言，
> tsiah e-tang 維持多語／多元 e 環境。
>
> 咱明明看著台語文過去是 an-tsuann 無法度 ti 教育體系順利 tshui 動，
> 是因為「文字無標準化」，咱明明知影台語文是 an-tsuann ti 文學、傳
> 播、書面溝通發展受著阻礙，無法度真緊 ti 社會普及，hin 內底 1 e 足
> 主要 e 原因，ma 是因為「文字無標準化」，文字無標準化 e 結果，影
> 響台語文未來 e 發展 kap 生存，台語文 e 生存危機，就是「多語／多元
> 」環境 e 大危機！！！！！
>
> Language may be thought of as a tool, which, when standardized, is
> "cheaper to acquire and maintain" (Ray 1962:754).
>
> 1 e 語言 e 文字標準化，是發展 hit-e 語言，維護語言多元 e 正面工作
> ，m 是負面 e 路用。
>
> 2008/6/13 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
>
>
> > Koan-he Tai-lo kap POJ e koan-he, goa sou li-kia e si chit e hun-kang
> > e koan-he, Ungian hiaN ma u kong-tioh.
> > TL ti kau-iok-kai phah-piaN, POJ bo beh ti kau-iok chit te ka i piaN,
> > na u lang jin-ui sou-ui e cheng-hap tioh-si
> > hou bo beh koh iong POJ, khiong-kiaN si chin toa e gou-kai. Ki-jian si
> > hun-kang, TL ai chiap-siu e kiam-giam
> > chu-iau tioh-si i ti kau-iok-kai u phah-chhut-sim-mih thian-ha, u
> > sim-mih seng-chiu.
>
> > TL ah-si jin-ho cheng-hu jin-teng e LMJ he-thong, ti kau-iok-siong
> > long khah chiam iu-se, goa khoaN chit-ma be-chio
> > Tai-gi-sou e hak-seng teh sia lun-bun tioh e iong TL, Thong-iong in-ui
> > I Phek-choaN chin phah-piaN khi Bin-chin-tong
> > koan-chhi iu-soeh ma u koa seng-chek,
>
> > TL chit-ma pi Thong-iong koh khah u te-ui, i beh kah Thong-iong piaN,
> > thong chu-iau e chian-tiuN ma si ti
> > kau-iok-kai. TL e seng-kong be? Chit e tiong-iau e chi-phiau tioh-si
> > sou-u kok-sio e Tai-gi kau-chai
> > oan-choan long iong chit tho. Goa chan-seng kau-iok-kai iong TL cho
> > ui-it e phiau-chun, ma chan-seng
> > kok-sio Tai-gi kau-chai long iong TL, na u lang beh lian-su, goa ma
> > goan-i chhiam-mia chi-chhi.
>
> > Ka ku e oaN sin e, put-ju chhong-cho koa sin e TL su-iong leng-ek.
>
> > Hak-khiam
>
> > 2008/6/13 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

---

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Jun 13, 2008, 4:31:59 PM
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Goa siuN bo-su-iau kong hong phian-khi.
Ai liau-kai chit-e chou-chit lai-te pun-te tioh u bo-kang e siaN-im,
che-che e siaN-im u kho-leng lan kan-ta thiaN-tioh "kiong-sek" chit pou-hun,
chit e tho-hiap ah-ho kiong-sek ah-ho long ai ka khoaN-cho chia e lang tui hit
tong-si e chong-hong e hoe-eng. Lan ma ai liau-kai bun-ji si sia-hoe che-tou,
chia e chham-u-chia ma seng-kong oan-seng ti KAU-IOK siong cheng-hap
chit-tho chhut-lai.
Hioh-siok e khang-khoe si kau-iok e thui-tian, u sia-hoe phoe-hap
be-bai, tan-si m-si thong-chu-iau e.
cheng-hap e tiong-tiam si KAU-IOK-KAI.

Goa m-chai-iaN kin-ni 9 goeh e kok-sio Tai-gi kho-pun e iong
sim-mih-khoan e LMJ?
Chit e bun-te pi lan chia e lang iong sim-mih LMJ long khah tiong-iau.
Na m-si TL, KAU-IOK

Hak-khiam

2008/6/13 <[e-mail]>:

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[e-mail]
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Jun 13, 2008, 4:39:30 PM
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PhaiN-se, sia bo-liau tioh kia-chhut-khi, koh pou-chhiong.
Goa m-chai-iaN kin-ni 9 goeh e kok-sio Tai-gi kho-pun e iong
sim-mih-khoan e LMJ?
Chit e bun-te pi lan chia e lang iong sim-mih LMJ long khah tiong-iau.

Na m-si TL, KAU-IOK e cheng-hap tioh-sng sit-pai.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/13 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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[e-mail]
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Jun 14, 2008, 9:37:37 AM
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Kok-ui sian-tsin:
It-ting ai tsi-tshi TL,
m-thang hun-hua ka-ki e lik-liong,
TG bue-sai koh kiann huan-thau,
tsim ti im-phiau e tsian-tiunn.
Tsiong-hua Bun-tat

2008/6/12, Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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[e-mail]
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Jun 14, 2008, 7:29:11 PM
to 台語網
na kong siang lang beh keng2-iong toh 1 tho kuchai lang chu-iu
anne kong si bo mtioh

mkoh na koh chimchiok ka siuN--1-e
chit-ku-oe u kong na bo kong--leh
lan punte to bo hoattou han-teng lang beh iong toh 1 tho

mkoh goa na sia 1 phiN iong POJ sia e bunchiuN
tau-ko khi Chu-iu-si-po in kam e chhai-iong?
goa na ka tau-ko khi TLPA iah TY e khanbut
in na beh khan, kam be ka kai cho TLPA iah TY?

to na Qahunx jinchin koh kianchhi teh iong e hit-tho
i ma chin phah-piaN teh sia
mkoh hit-chun na beh theh lai BP khan
ma si ai ka kai cho POJ, kam msi?

chitma KIP u sengjin TL chit-tho
na jinui ai kai-iong chit-tho
tioh-ai hong-khi POJ, che bo siaN ho chiN--e
na bo, to ke-siok iong POJ

lan na kong khanbut kai iong TL, chhui--nih koh kong chi-chhi POJ
che m-si u kong na bo kong--leh
na bo, goa iong POJ sia--e, tau-ko kam be kai cho TL chiah khan--chhut-lai?

anne kong--lai bunte to pian-cho:
tau-te lan anchoaN khoaN POJ kap TL--a

Tekhoa

* na chhiuN cheng 1-cham-a
Ungian chhoe goan hoan-ek Iau Ka-bun e "Na-hai-bang"
Iau Ka-bun beh iong TL
beh ka chhut-pan e Kiman ma iong TL
goan hoan-ek e si si iong POJ
kau kah hia ma si kai cho TL (koh ai ka in kautui)

m-chiah goa e chhiaN Ungian kong
chhut-chheh e si, na beh koa3 goan hoan-ek-chia e mia
goa chin kian-chhi ai chu-beng goan-te si iong POJ hoan-ek--a
msi beh chiN siaN, ma msi beh thut-hian siaN
kantaN si beh piau-si goan si iong POJ hoan-ek--e nia

---

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TADA Kei
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Jun 14, 2008, 10:50:19 PM
to [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]
Bun-tat hiaN:
Li kam u thak gun e tho-lun?

TL na si beh chhu-tai POJ,

TL chiah si teh hun-hoa lan.

Li na e kong goan teh hun-hoa?

TADA

2008/6/14 Bun-tat Ng <[e-mail]>:

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[e-mail]
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:00:02 AM
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Tek-hoa:
Chin ku bo kiaN-bin, u-eng lai chhit-tho.

"POJ" kah "Tai-oan" chit e mia kang-khoan, sim-mih si-chun piN-cho
"m-kaN kio-chhut i e mia"?
POJ kam u hiah phaiN thiaN?

Hak-khiam

2008/6/14 Tekhoa <[e-mail]>:

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:23:27 AM
to [e-mail], Tai-gu-bang
Bun-tat lau-su peng-an!
Li e phoe thak-liau, goa chai-iaN Taioan hong-bin e lang teh hoan-lo siaN.

Ma e chiuN-tai liau, e u chit-khoan e to-the (bak-khuh) pian-hoa, che
si lan e-tang u-chhek (chin-cheng siuN e-tioh) e tai-chi.

M-bian hiah kin-tiuN.

Ma cheng-koan na bo beh chhui-sak POJ, cheng-beng Ma e i-kip KBT e bo
"ai Taioan",

pi Kiong-san-tong koh khah Chi-na. Lan e-tang ka toa-siaN phoe-pheng.

Chin-cheng KBT si-tai, TLPA tui KIP kong-pou, hit-chun TLPA kan-taN si im-piau.

M-koh Taioan Gibun Hak-hoe toa-toa chhui-sak. Chhui-khong liau,
tit-tioh chin che lang e jin-tong.

Lan iau e-tang/su-iau ti bin-kan chhui-sak POJ, chiam-tui kau-iok-kai
ma e-sai chhui-sak TL.

Chi-chio KIP sou kong-pou e TL, TLPA in e ki-chhou long ma si POJ.

Sit-chai chin ki-koai, Thong-iong bo hak-sut ki-chhou, na si tu-tioh
lun-cheng i it-teng e su.
I e eng-hiong lat, na e be kiam-chio?

Lan na chai-iaN in e hong-hoat, chiah e-tang iong u hau-lut e
hong-hoat lai ka tui-khong.

TADA

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Bun-tat Ng <[e-mail]> wrote:
> TADA sang ping-an:
> Kok-ui long-si ui Tai-gi phah-piann e iong-su!
> Sio-ti e i-su si tak-ke ing-kai ai thuan-kiat. Li-iu si an-ne...
> Tsing-tai Tai-bun-soo soo-tiunn Tan-Hong-Bing kong i kap Ma-Ing-Kiu long
> tsan-sing sia Hua-gi, jian-au thak-tso Tai-gi, an-ne to-si Tai-gi-bun.
> Thong-iong-phai huan-tui TL, iong tshiu-tuann tann-kik TL, m-tsiah
> Kau-iok-poo Kok-kau-su huat kong-bun khai-hong kok-tsiong Tai-gi im-piau, ju
> luan in ju huann-hi.
> Gua kam-kak TL na bo siu tiong-si kap tsi-tshi, Tai-gi e tsian-too
> it-ting e koh ba-khuh tng-khi. Tai-gi khiong-kiann bo-ioh-i--loo...
>
> Bun-tat
>
> 2008/6/14 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
to Tai-gu-bang
Tekhoa 講了真正確，講 beh「消滅 POJ」、「強 beh ai 人
改用 toh-tsit 種系統」，he long 是假議題，ng 望 tak-e
了解。

討論 e 目的，是在 ti 論理，求運動 e 利益，運動 e 目標
若有無 siang e 可能，ma e-tang theh 出來討論。

總--是，m 免 tsham siunn 過 tse 情緒，ma m-thang ka
理路 au-khut。

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:30:49 AM
to Tai-gu-bang
Tada san,

Thong-iong u 1 e tsuan-giap e un-tong-tsia 余--sian-sinn.

Na beh kong khiu kuan-he, puann kam-tsing, lan u-iann long su i thiam
-thiam.

On 6月15日, 上午10時23分, "Kei TADA" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Bun-tat lau-su peng-an!
>
> Li e phoe thak-liau, goa chai-iaN Taioan hong-bin e lang teh hoan-lo siaN.
>
> Ma e chiuN-tai liau, e u chit-khoan e to-the (bak-khuh) pian-hoa, che
> si lan e-tang u-chhek (chin-cheng siuN e-tioh) e tai-chi.
>
> M-bian hiah kin-tiuN.
>
> Ma cheng-koan na bo beh chhui-sak POJ, cheng-beng Ma e i-kip KBT e bo
> "ai Taioan",
>
> pi Kiong-san-tong koh khah Chi-na. Lan e-tang ka toa-siaN phoe-pheng.
>
> Chin-cheng KBT si-tai, TLPA tui KIP kong-pou, hit-chun TLPA kan-taN si im-piau.
>
> M-koh Taioan Gibun Hak-hoe toa-toa chhui-sak. Chhui-khong liau,
> tit-tioh chin che lang e jin-tong.
>
> Lan iau e-tang/su-iau ti bin-kan chhui-sak POJ, chiam-tui kau-iok-kai
> ma e-sai chhui-sak TL.
>
> Chi-chio KIP sou kong-pou e TL, TLPA in e ki-chhou long ma si POJ.
>
> Sit-chai chin ki-koai, Thong-iong bo hak-sut ki-chhou, na si tu-tioh
> lun-cheng i it-teng e su.
> I e eng-hiong lat, na e be kiam-chio?
>
> Lan na chai-iaN in e hong-hoat, chiah e-tang iong u hau-lut e
> hong-hoat lai ka tui-khong.
>
> TADA
>
> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Bun-tat Ng <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > TADA sang ping-an:
> > Kok-ui long-si ui Tai-gi phah-piann e iong-su!
> > Sio-ti e i-su si tak-ke ing-kai ai thuan-kiat. Li-iu si an-ne...
> > Tsing-tai Tai-bun-soo soo-tiunn Tan-Hong-Bing kong i kap Ma-Ing-Kiu long
> > tsan-sing sia Hua-gi, jian-au thak-tso Tai-gi, an-ne to-si Tai-gi-bun.
> > Thong-iong-phai huan-tui TL, iong tshiu-tuann tann-kik TL, m-tsiah
> > Kau-iok-poo Kok-kau-su huat kong-bun khai-hong kok-tsiong Tai-gi im-piau, ju
> > luan in ju huann-hi.
> > Gua kam-kak TL na bo siu tiong-si kap tsi-tshi, Tai-gi e tsian-too
> > it-ting e koh ba-khuh tng-khi. Tai-gi khiong-kiann bo-ioh-i--loo...
>
> > Bun-tat
>
> > 2008/6/14 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> Bun-tat hiaN:
>
> >> Li kam u thak gun e tho-lun?
>
> >> TL na si beh chhu-tai POJ,
>
> >> TL chiah si teh hun-hoa lan.
>
> >> Li na e kong goan teh hun-hoa?
>
> >> TADA
>
> >> 2008/6/14 Bun-tat Ng <[e-mail]>:
> >> > Kok-ui sian-tsin:
> >> > It-ting ai tsi-tshi TL,
> >> > m-thang hun-hua ka-ki e lik-liong,
> >> > TG bue-sai koh kiann huan-thau,
> >> > tsim ti im-phiau e tsian-tiunn.
> >> > Tsiong-hua
> >> > Bun-tat
>
> >> > 2008/6/12, Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

---

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:51:37 AM
to Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
Voyu hiaN:
Li kong 討論 e 目的，是在 ti 論理...m 免 tsham siunn 過 tse 情緒，ma m-thang ka 理路 au-khut.

An-ne li hou Tan bok-su e phoe kam sng si tho-lun?

Piau-bin le-mau, lai-te khng siam-mih?

Chok-ka chin gau sia. Chin hong-pian.

Voyu hiaN, goa u chit-e gi-bun.

Ti chit-e bang, toa-pou-hun e lang iong choan-Lo sia.
Li na e kian-chhi beh iong Han-ji? Na si e-tang, siuN-beh chheng-kau chit-e.

Lim tiuN-lo phoe-pheng Tan bok-su e pou-hun ma hou goa kam-kak
siuN-koe cheng-su-hoa.
Tan bok-su, Lim tiuN-lo e phah-piaN si tak-ke sou jin-tong e. Sou-i
kam-kak chin kho-sioh.

Chong-si, lan koh u tui-oe e khong-kan si siong ho e. Si Siong-te siuN
su e un-tian. Na si kap ki-tha e lang (chhiuN Thong-iong e lang)
kho-leng bo chit-e khong-kan.

TADA

2008/6/15 <[e-mail]>:

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 11:01:49 AM
to Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
That-tu-a kia chhut e phoe teh kong tioh li e iong-ji.
Li ti e-bin chit-tiuN ui-tioh goa iong choan-Lo, goa beh ka li seh to-sia.
Goa kam-kak choan-Lo khah khau-gu-hoa, khah ho thak.
Lan u chin-che lang.
"khiu kuan-he, puann kam-tsing" e ki-sut su I Pek-choan chit-e.

Lan kam be-hiau / kam bo su-iau "khiu kuan-he, puann kam-tsing".

TADA

2008/6/15 <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 11:27:02 AM
to TADA Kei, Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
Lang m-na kan-ta u li-seng nia, ma u cheng-su, chu-koan e chit-bin,
chong-si khah mai cho jin-seng kong-kek,
goa chin-cheng e phoe, na u an-ne e bun-te ai ka tak-ke to-khiam.
Goa in-iong chin-cheng cheng-li chit-koa lang e i-kian hou tak-ke chham-kho:

現代白話字運動背後的動機

文化保存kah歷史記憶沿續是真重要的動機。
陳鄭弘堯指出支持白話字的一種心理tek的動機是
"希望'過去'kah'現在'會凍相牽連，bë因為政權的來去，
一直換文字、語言...歷史會凍切作清國/日本時代/ROC時代等等，m-koh白話字'永遠無變。"

文化傳承kah文化資源的觀點

張裕宏（2001）認為beh建立對台語的信心，"就愛hou台灣人知影咱的傳統，
hou台灣人知影家己有久長的好傳統來感覺驕傲，"就目前來講，"白話字的文獻
夭是上豐富，佔所有得會著得台語文獻得大部份，所以白話字夭是上重要，是負責台語傳承得大樹身。"

Hak-khiam

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 11:48:21 AM
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TADA sang kap TGB hiann-tse tak-ke ho:
Gua si oh POJ tshut-sin--e, thak-kue Lua-JIn-Sing sian-sinn e "An-nia-e-bak-sai" POJ sio-suat, gua e ji-tian si "E-mng-im-sin-ji-tian", e-tang kong gua e TG LMJ tsham-kho tsu-liau tua-to-soo long-si POJ e tsheh(pau-kuat bang-tsam tsu-guan).
Gua tsin ai POJ, POJ khak-sit pi TL khah ho sia.
M-ku TL tsin bo kan-tan hoo KIP kong-po--tshut-khi, hak-hau
lau-su ki-sit khah ai ㄅㄆㄇ, m-bian oh to e hiau, "koo-put-ji-tsiong" tsiap-siu TL, tsim-ma hoo TY luan--loh-khi, TL tsin u kho-ling pian tsio-soo-lang leh ing, tshiunn tong-ni e TLPA kang-khuan,an-ne TG kau-iok si-m-si e koh "bak-khuh" leh?
Sio-ti huan-lo--e si tsit-e bun-te.
Ng-Bun-Tat

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
to 台語網
Kada san,

Gua hit-e tsuan-lo e hue-ing, si ti gua khuann-tioh li kia e-kha tsit phinn
tsin-tsing to sia ho--e, ping m-si tik-piat ui-tioh li e hue-ing sia--e.

Gua e iong Han-lo lam-sia e guan-in tsin kan-tan, in-ui gua tsin-tsing
huat-kak, gua ing tsuan-lo e si, u huat-sing lang thak--bo, hik-tsia-si
goo-hue e tsing-hing, ui-tioh mai koh tso-sing tsit-e bun-te, gua kuat-ting
lam Han-ji sia, thang li-pian lo-ma-ji bo sik-tshiu e lang lai uat-thok.

Gua kann kong, gua thok-sia lo-ma-ji e sok-too, ing-kai long tue tsiah-e
sian-pai e-tioh, in-ui gian-kiu kap kang-tsok e su-iau, goa tak-put-si ma
teh thak Tai-oan Kau-hoe Kong-po, i-king thak kah 1 e kham-tsam, tann
gua tsi-iau theh--lai to e-tang sui ing tsin tsing-siong e sok-too ka liam
tshut-lai hoo tak-e thiann, gua jin-ui, jin-ho 1 e kong beh tshui-sak lo-ma
-ji e lang, tui lo-ma-ji sik-tshiu e thing-too, long ing-kai kau tsit-e kham-tsam
, an-ne tsiah kong e tua-siann, khia e tsai kha.

Gua tui Tan Bok-su bo siann le-mau e guan-in, si in-ui tsai-iann tsin-tsing
Chhongbi kikimhue pang-sak TBTS e si, bo guan-i ka thok-tsia tsu-liau ho-
ho-a i5-kau, ti3-su2 TBTS u tsit-tuann si-kan, tsin kan-khoo teh ting5 koh
siu-tsip thok-tsia, tsau-tshue thok-tsia, lian-lok thok-tsia, tso-sing tsin tua
e sing-pun kap tsu-guan e long-hui.

In-ui tsit-e tai-tsi, gua tsin huai-gi Tan Bok-su (i si Chhongbi Kikimhue e
tsong-kan-su) i kong i ai TBTS e sim, i na si ui TBTS ho, tsin-tsing si an-
tsuann e tso tshut tsit khuan siong-hai TBTS e tai-tsi, m-tsiah gua jin-ui
Tan Bok-su kin-pun bo tsu-khe in i hit tsiong khui-kau lai kong TBTS,
thiann--khi-lai tsin ke, hoo tsai-iann tsin-tsing e tai-tsi e lang siunn-beh
thoo...

Tsu-lai gua si bo siunn-beh kong-khai kong tsit-e tai-tsi--e, kah-na si
Tada san mng--a, gua to tsi-ho lau-sit kong--a.

I-siong.

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

---

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Jun 15, 2008, 12:04:23 PM
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Ta̍k-ke hó,
Beh chhéng-kàu kuí-ê bûn-tê: (Goá pún-sin iáu bô tat-àn,
tēng-kiàn).

*An-choáⁿ chia sǹg sī pe̍h-oē-jī?
*Pe̍h-oē-jī chit-má kám ū "piau-chún-huà?" Nā ū, le̍k-sú-
siōng siá--ê, kap chit-má piau-chún-huà bô-kâng ê bûn-hiàn,
kám sǹg sī pe̍h-oē-jī?
Nā bô, an-choáⁿ ê huān-uî-lâi, lí kám-kak iû-goân sī
pe̍h-oē-jī?
*Pe̍h-oē-jī kám ū siáⁿ-mi̍h ki-koan, cho-chip, teh tēng,
paiu-chún?

翻譯英華廈腔語彙 -> p'oe (phoe), ch'iū (chhiū)
廈英大辭典(Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular or Spoken
Language of Amoy) ->kwat, ko͘, kö, tsa, ɛ

Goá siūⁿ ta̍k-ke pí goá khah liáu-kái pe̍h-oē-jī iōng-hoat
ê ián-piàn, nā kóng bûn-hoà le̍k-sú chin tiòng-iàu (goá
tông-ì), goá téng-koân
mn̄g-ê bûn-tê ta̍k-ke ê khoàⁿ-hoat sī?

Pektiong

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 12:07:01 PM
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Hak-khiam lau-su,

Li soo ki2 e le (i-kian), gua uan-tsuan tsan-sing. Lan siann-lang m-si
oh thuan-thong POJ tshut--lai-e, lan kah tann long iau siu-tioh thuan-
thong POJ e ti3-im3--leh.

TL si m-si POJ, i kap POJ tsing-tsha jua-tse? Ui-tioh un-tong lan kam
be-ing-tit tsiap-siu POJ e siu-siah, tse to si gua tsin-tsing beh kong e
ue.

Ti tsia ma ka in-ui gua e huat-gian kam-kak put-khuai e lang hue-sit-le.

2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 12:22:18 PM
to [e-mail], [e-mail], Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
Pek-tiong hiaN:
Goa jin-ui Taioan Holo oe POJ e hoan-ui chin chheng-chhou.

Li ku hiah e le, hou goa kam-kak chin kek-toan.

In-ui hiah-e chu-liau m si chiam-tui Taioan.

Taioan Holo oe POJ e hoan-ui, tioh si, Kau-hoe-kong-po, Seng-keng sou
iong koe e.

Bun-ji e kau-hak hau-lut kap phou-phian bo saN u koan-he.

In-ui chu-iau e iau-sou si koan(khoan)-lek / koan-ui.

Iu-koan POJ lan u kiong-sek.

Ti Tiong-hoa bin-kok (gi-bu) kau-iok the-che lai chhui-sak TL, lan ma
u kiong-sek.

Chong-si iong TL lai chhiuN POJ e chu-goan, lan bo kiong-sek.

TADA

2008/6/15 Pochung Chen <[e-mail]>:

> Ta̍k-ke hó,
>
> Beh chhéng-kàu kuí-ê bûn-tê: (Goá pún-sin iáu bô tat-àn, tēng-kiàn).
>
> *An-choáⁿ chia sǹg sī pe̍h-oē-jī?

> *Pe̍h-oē-jī chit-má kám ū "piau-chún-huà?" Nā ū, le̍k-sú-siōng siá--ê, kap

> chit-má piau-chún-huà bô-kâng ê bûn-hiàn, kám sǹg sī pe̍h-oē-jī?
> Nā bô, an-choáⁿ ê huān-uî-lâi, lí kám-kak iû-goân sī pe̍h-oē-jī?
> *Pe̍h-oē-jī kám ū siáⁿ-mi̍h ki-koan, cho-chip, teh tēng, paiu-chún?
>
> 翻譯英華廈腔語彙 -> p'oe (phoe), ch'iū (chhiū)
> 廈英大辭典(Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular or Spoken Language of
> Amoy) ->kwat, ko͘, kö, tsa, ɛ
>
> Goá siūⁿ ta̍k-ke pí goá khah liáu-kái pe̍h-oē-jī iōng-hoat ê ián-piàn, nā
> kóng bûn-hoà le̍k-sú chin tiòng-iàu (goá tông-ì), goá téng-koân
> mn̄g-ê bûn-tê ta̍k-ke ê khoàⁿ-hoat sī?
>
> Pektiong
>
> On Jun 15, 2008, at 11:27 AM, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
>
>> Lang m-na kan-ta u li-seng nia, ma u cheng-su, chu-koan e chit-bin,
>> chong-si khah mai cho jin-seng kong-kek,
>> goa chin-cheng e phoe, na u an-ne e bun-te ai ka tak-ke to-khiam.
>>
>> Goa in-iong chin-cheng cheng-li chit-koa lang e i-kian hou tak-ke
>> chham-kho:
>>
>>
>> 現代白話字運動背後的動機
>>
>> 文化保存kah歷史記憶沿續是真重要的動機。
>> 陳鄭弘堯指出支持白話字的一種心理tek的動機是
>> "希望'過去'kah'現在'會凍相牽連，bë因為政權的來去，

>> 一直換文字、語言...歷史會凍切作清國/日本時代/ROC時代等等，m-koh白話字'永遠無變。"
>>
>> 文化傳承kah文化資源的觀點
>>

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Jun 15, 2008, 12:27:06 PM
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Pektiong :

Goa taikhai bohoattou chiaNbin hoetap li e buntoe, mkoh goa e khoaNhoat si, chincheng e pianhoa, si kang 1-e hethong laitoe tih pianhoa e, chitma e TL, si paukoah hoantui POJ hethong e lang chham-u e. POJ iahkoh chunchai, TL peng msi chujian ui POJ ianpian lai e.

Hakkhiam hiaN kong e chenghap, si beh ui khah choe e hethong piNchoe khah chio e hethong. Tongchhoe Taioan gubunhakhoe kong beh chenghap, kiatko msi ui goanlai e hethong keng 1-tho, si kaki piN 1-tho chhutlai, KIP kong e chenghap, masi kaki piN 1-tho sin e chhutlai. Sou-i gun long e jim-ui anne cho kanna chengka hethong, tui chenghap bo konghian.

Kasu lan kamkah lan icheng phoepheng TLPA si hap-li e, anne, kangkhoan e phiauchun, TL e chichhichia ma ai uhoattou chiapsiu luisu e phoephoaN. Hohong TL koh u chinchoe pian3-the2 (hongpian pan, thoanthong pan).

Ungian 6.15

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:04:23 +0800, Pochung Chen wrote

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Jun 15, 2008, 1:38:27 PM
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Ungian hiaN:
TiuN Ju-hong kau-siu hit pun POJ ki-pun-lun u kong-tioh chit koa
siong-koan e chu-liau, I e chheh goa m-na thak tiong-tiam ma koh
phah-ji.
M-koh LMJ u e sou-chai u chau-cheng-khi, chhiaN chham-kho i-ha e
in-bun. Ki-tiong khah tiong-iau e si bun-ji kah im-phiau e chha-i,
bun-ji e iau-kiu ai ho-jin, sou-i :(1) eng, in m-si (2) ing, in,
Eng-gi kam m-si sia "English", kam u lang sia "Inglish"? ; kang-khoan
e to-li, ui-tioh beh ho-jin (3) oa, ui, oe; m-si (4) ua, ui, ue.
I chit pun chheh sit-chai chin chan. I-ha o. -> ou.

一百五、六十年的白話字無甚麼大改變，尤其上重要的是伊的系統完全無改變，是一條脈牽落來的，彼就是傳統的所在。（1）伊是記號標調式的，也就是用記號來表示聲調。（2）伊元音符號＆輔音符號的音值絕大部份ti字母的「基本音域」（Zhou7
1961）內底，及世界多數的文字真相仝，及現代英文真無仝。24（3）伊用記號表示元音的小可無仝，也就是用"o"表示較kôan的元音，用"ou"表示較低的元音。（4）伊用"h"表示送氣，但是"ch"並無送氣，"chh"才是送氣。Chiah-ê書寫方法就是台灣白話字的傳統。一百五、六十年的白話字沒有什麼大的改變，尤其最重要的是它的系統完全沒改變，是一條脈當下傳來的，這就是傳統的所在。-P.175~176

文字是一種書面交通的符號。書面交通的符號特別有一寡要求，其中一個要求是變化較侈款咧較好，就是趙元任（Chao
1922）所講的『文字尚形』；另外一個要求是愛留較侈無用的i¯-bih（i.e.
redundancy）。第一個也就是分工。第二個也就是中國文字學所講的「別嫌」。Ts及ch分工，t„閱讀的時有真大的幫助，較緊分別語詞，而且若有寫˜著、印˜著，真容易掠出來。第二組例是複合元音ui,oe,oa。若是書面上出現oi,ue或是ua，讀者隨知有錯誤，因為無這款寫法。
----------------P.179
音標＆文字真無仝。音標˜是般所了解的「書面交通」的符號。…音標上介忌多樣化。…拼音文字是「音位」取向的，音標是「音值」取向的。所以文字允准仝款的音有無仝的寫法…嘛允准仝款的符號表示無仝的音（像白話字h＆o的侈侈種用法。Ti功用方面，音標主要是注音用的。使用的範圍包括語言學家記音、編字典的人標音、編語言教材的人標音、語言學習者注音。既然是注音用的，就有必要維持符號＆語音1:1〔一對一〕的關係，袂tang3像文字án-ne
1:n或是n:1。…TLPA有影是「音標m成音標」，siuN侈變化的規則。
----------------P.180
文字會tàng am-khàm方音差，音標應該突顯方音差。文字kan-na
ti必要的時才臨時改變來突顯無仝的腔口，發揮音標的作用。…若是音標就應該kä chiah-ê差別表現出來。
----------------P.181
想欲用音標取代白話字是真無妥當的代誌。第一，音標做文字來用一定跛腳，因為伊無文字hiah
liú-liãh。第二，頭前已經分析過講音標＆白話字實在是無仝系統，音標代替白話字的功能強做文字了後，並無傳承白話字所留落來的台灣文化傳統。顛tò是破壞傳統，對頭阿建立新的秩序。

17．3．白話字＆台語文教學
台語文教學是˜是有必要用兩套無仝的符號。也就講：是˜是母語教育直接用白話字，iah外語教學先對音標落手。
----------------P.182
【當文字的拼寫法與語音完全沒有差距時，文字本身就是音標。如此則以上兩種對象的語文教學都可以直接從文字著手，不須要另外使用音標—所不同的是受外語教學的人同時還得學習語言。當拼音與發音有些微差距時，拼音教學通常也不要求用音標。表面上不合的地方通常就是較瑣碎、較特別的拼寫規則，予以說明就可以了。「注音符號」原來是打算當文字使用的，拼音與發音有一些不合的地方，如[X]（煙，岩，etc.）拼成"ㄧㄢ"（[i]加上[an]），不是"ㄧㄝㄣ"，又如[X]（門ㄦ）拼做"ㄇㄣㄦ"（[x]加上[X]），不是"ㄇㄜㄦ"。這不合的地方無論在母語教育或者外語教學都只用規則說明，並未另外用音標表示。當拼音與發音太大時，母語教育通常也不使用音標，外語教學才有借用音標的，不過也不是百分之百需要。英文就是一個例子。】
----------------P.183
【白話字的符號因為用絕大部份根據羅馬字的「基本音域」（參考§17．1），又和國際音標也很接近，所以它本身就有很高的標音能力，屬於上文所舉的第二類，不須要再用音標，特殊的拼寫法說明規則即可。…白話字（不包括新語音符號）須要說明發音高則的只有下面這幾項：（1）變調（§10），（2）喉化的（§5），（3）位於a,e,u,o,o;ng前面的ch,chh,j聲母（§2．2），（4）eng，ek韻母（§§6.2,6.5），（5）ian,iat韻母（ibid），（6）中南部方言開尾韻母的o與閉尾韻母的o（§6.3）。
這些文字與語音不合的地方都與語言的歷史變化有關
----------------P.184
【英文拼寫法與英語的對應相差很大，屬於第三類，比台語白話字還要複雜幾十倍都說不定，但是英語的母語教學在美國根本就不用音標。白話字既然沒有英文字那麼複雜，白話字教學與台語教育、台語教學如果能夠把握前段所舉那幾點比較困難的地方，根本用不著音標。台語的音標通常是語言學家用的。當然，音標可以幫助懂音標的人，只有好處，沒有壞處。…到目前為止，白話字的教學並沒有人用音標，最多是注明變調，但是這個"7"並不是音標（"33"才是音標），所以連懂國際音標的台語學習者還是要先知道"7"是什麼意思。
----------------P.185
文字的問題是牽一髮而動全身。主要牽涉到閱讀習慣與文獻。閱讀習慣的改變涉及舊文獻的可用性，而舊文獻對當今的台語存亡非常重要，我們此刻不得隨便改變文字，以免舊文獻變成廢物。因為台語文尚未發達，目前台語的每一件文獻都是寶，尤其是工具書。等到有一天台語文佔住腳了，有很多工具書可用了，那時舊文獻就可以束之高閣，像中世紀英文專供學者專家研究。至於目前，白話字的文獻還是最豐富，佔所有可得的台語文獻的大部份，所以白話字仍然最重要，是負責台語傳承的骨幹。
----------------P.186

Hak-khiam

2008/6/15 Iunn Un-gian <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 1:59:51 PM
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Seng-hian hiaN:
TL kah POJ e koan-he an-choaN sui-lang "siong-siong", goa chiap-siu hun-kang,
goa khoaN tak-ke ma bo an-sng koh beh ti Kau-iok-kai khi cheng-chhu POJ e te-ui.
Che bo sng-hai i ti sia-hoe-siong tong-cho su-sit phiau-chun e te-ui,
goa ka-ki kam-kak e.

Goa chin-cheng e i-kian chin kan-tan, tioh-si put-koan joa-che-tho
soan chit tho, tioh soah a.
Goa bo chan-seng cheng-hap, sui-jian chan-seng cheng-hap e mia-toaN u
goa e mia, goa teh ioh
cheng-hap chi-si ke chit tho, c.c. TLPA tong-chhou kang-khoan, lan
tioh koh tui 0 khai-si,
goa ma ioh-kong kau-iok-pou bo hit e leng-lek ah-si koat-sim khi
chhui-sak in soan-pou e he-thong.
Chit lai-te ki-sit u chin che chhu-bi e mih-kiaN thang-ho khi khoaN.

Goa e siuN-hoat tioh si Henry kong e, cho-i kai-tiau-oaN-tai, POJ ti
sia-hoe-siong koh ti-leh.

Khah an-ni e si Babuza ka goa kong TOJ e ke-siok iong POJ. Goa chin hoaN-hi.
Gi-gian, bun-ji long m-si kan-ta kang-khu nia, jin-tong e ian-siok tui
goa lai kong chin tiong-iau.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 4:24:25 PM
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Hak-khiam lāu-su,

Guá siūⁿ, lán sóo-ū ê lâng lóng sio-siâng, ū liáu-kái POJ ê
li̍k-sú kap bûn-hiàn--ê, lóng mā ē tsàn-sîng ing-kai ti̍t-tsiap
īng thuân-thóng POJ lâi tsò Tâi-gí ê lô-má-jī.

Kah tann mā sī án-ne--a, nā sī tsuân Tâi-uân ê lâng lóng
tsiah lí-sìng, tsìn-tsîng mài huat-bîng hiah-ni̍h tsē thò hē-
thóng, lán thâu-lí-lōo-ti̍t tsá tō ing-kai ta̍k-ê lóng īng thuân-
thóng ê POJ--a, nah tio̍h tsiah-ni̍h-á mâ-huân, beh uan lâi
uan khì.

TLPA tong-tshue-sî teh tsò hē-thóng phîng-suán, thuân-thóng
POJ ē the̍h-tio̍h tē-it-miâ, mā tsìng-bîng i khak-si̍t sī siōng-hó
ê hē-thóng.

Bo̍k-tsîng, guá kan-tann sī tsin huân-ló, beh an-tsuánn î-tshî
3 tuā phài piàn 2 tuā phài ê sè-bīn, mài tò-thè tńg-khì 3 ê suann-
thâu hōo-siong m̄ niū ê tsōng-hóng.

M̄-kuán án-tsuánn, tsit kuí kang tī tsia ê thó-lūn, tsāi-tsuí sī tuì
tsit-ê gī-tê siōng-kài kong-khai koh tshim-ji̍p ê 1 pái, guá ū liáu-
kái lia̍t-uī sian-pái ê siūnn-huat, tsai-iánn ta̍k-ê beh kian-tshî īng
thuân-thóng POJ ê lí-iû, ū liáu-kái, tsóng-sī pí bô liáu-kái khah
hó.

Ū khuànn-tio̍h Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su ín Tiuⁿ Jū-hông lāu-su ê Pe̍h-oē-
jī Ki-pún-lūn, lāi-té ū kóng-tio̍h 'im-uī' (phoneme) kap im-ti̍t(phone)
ê tsha-pia̍t. Tsiū guá sóo tsai, TL kā 'eng' siá-tsò 'ing', 'oa' siá-tsò
'ua' tíng-tíng, i ê guân-in tō-sī beh tshái-iōng im-uī (im-sòo) lâi su-
siá, in-uī bûn-jī hē-thóng pún-lâi tō sī ài thiàu-tshut 'im-ti̍t'(phone
variants) ê im-piau su-khó, sóo-í, TL tsiah ē bô beh siá 'im-piàn'
kap khiunn-kháu íng-hióng ê 'eng' kap 'oa' t.t, beh siá 'ing' kap 'ua'
ê im-uī (im-sòo) piáu-kì.

Uānn uē lâi kóng, TL ê su-siá hong-sik, sīm-tsì sī koh khah ha̍p tī
bûn-jī--ê, khah m̄-sī im-piau ê lí-lōo. M̄-tsai Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su tuì
tsit tiám ê khuànn-huat jû-hô?

ps. Tsin kî-kuài, tsit 2 kang TGB tsiah lāu-jia̍t, tsiànn-pîng hia suah
iû-guân piau-tsò 'low activity', bô sī tio̍h lāu-jia̍t kah sím-mi̍h thîng-
tōo, tsiah ē piàn 'high activity'--hannh.......*____*"

2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 4:49:34 PM
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Bun-ji kap im-ui bo it-teng ai u koan-he.
Na bo chun-tiong thoan-thong e su-kho, be u bi-lai.
Chit-khoan e su-kho e chiap-siu kiong-se e ap-lek.
Hou thong-ti-chia kam-kak Taioan lang chin ho phian.
Hian-chong ma si it-tit teh pian.

TADA

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Jun 15, 2008, 6:01:14 PM
to TADA Kei, Taaigubang
Dear Tada-san peng-an,
Khoann-tioh li sia kong, "Na bo chun-tiong thoan-thong e su-kho, be u
bi-lai,"

ho* goa hui-siong e kam-tong. Chek-si sia kui-ji ka li kong “Amen”.

TJg

----- Original Message -----

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Jun 15, 2008, 6:29:04 PM
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goa sia liau bo-kau chheng-chhou, phaiN-se
goa e i-su si kong:
na si chan-seng kai sia TL
TL kau lou-boe to-si "huaiN-chha gia jip chau"

Tekhoa

----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: "Tai-gu-bang" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:26 AM
Subject: [tgb] Re: Tai-Bun-Thong-Sin e LMJ beh kai-cho Tai-lo?

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Jun 15, 2008, 7:44:04 PM
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Tekhoa,

M̄-koh nā tsiàu lí ê kóng-huat, kin-pún bē
ū hit ki 'huâinn-tshâ'--ah!

In-uī tō tshin-tshiūnn lí kóng--ê, kin-pún bô
khó-lîng ū lâng iah-sī ū tsoo-tsit ū-tsâi-tiāu
kiông-pik jīn-hô lâng kái īng bóo-tsi̍t-tsióng
hē-thóng, kah-nā sī án-ne, 'huâinn' beh uì
toh-uī senn--tshut-lâi???

Voyu

2008/6/15 Tekhoa <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 15, 2008, 7:54:11 PM
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Tada san,

Tsiū hiān-si̍t lâi khuànn, ta̍k khuán ê bûn-jī hē-thóng
khak-si̍t bô-it-tīng kap im-uī ū kuan-hē.

M̄-koh, lán nā khuànn khah āu--lâi tsiah siat-kè ê
bûn-jī hē-thóng (hiah-ê kiàn-li̍p ka-tī ê bûn-jī khah
uànn ê tso̍k-kûn), lán thang huat-kiàn in lóng sī
īng im-uī lâi tsò su-siá ê ki-pún kuan-liām. Kán-tan
kóng, lí-sióng ê phing-im bûn-jī hē-thóng, tō sī
im-uī ê bûn-jī.

Thuân-thóng lán tong-jiân ài tsun-tiōng. Tsóng--sī
tse pīng m̄-sī to̍k-it ê guân-tsik. In-uī thuân-thóng
pún-sin, mā ū tsē-tsē ê tsân-tshù tī-leh, kám m̄-sī?

Pí-lūn: the̍h Tâi-gí lâi tsò lē, lô-má-jī kan-tann sī
Tâi-gí bûn-jī thuân-thóng ê tsi̍t-pōo-hūn, tse lia̍h-guā,
Tâi-gí koh ū tsin kú-tn̂g mā tsin phong-phài ê Hàn-jī
bûn-hiàn thuân-thóng, tshiánn mn̄g, lán kám ū beh
tuì-tiōng tsit pōo-hūn ê thuân-thóng?

Nā sī lán kā thuân-thóng tòng-tsò uî-it ê tsuè-ko tsí-
tō guân-tsik, án-ne lán kin-pún bô ing-kai tsú-tiunn beh
tshui-sak tsuân-lô ê Tâi-bûn, in-uī tse tsua̍t-tuì bô tsun-
tiōng kāng-khuán ū li̍k-sú koh ū puî-té ê Hàn-jī bûn-hiàn.

Guá kí tsit-ê lē, pīng m̄-sī beh huán-tuì lô-má-jī, guá kan-
tann sī beh tsià (tsioh) tsit-ê lē lâi suat-bîng: Thuân-thóng
tsin tiōng-iàu, m̄-koh thuân-thóng tsua̍t-tuì m̄-sī lán su-khó
ê uī-it guân-tsik.

Kā tsit-ê tō-lí the̍h lâi īng tī lô-má-jī pún-sin ê sú-iōng, kám
bô ū tām-po̍h-á khé-sī?

Tshiánn tsí-kàu, to-siā!!!

Voyu

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

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2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

> Ū khuànn-tio̍h Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su ín Tiuⁿ Jū-hông lāu-su ê Pe̍h-oē-
> jī Ki-pún-lūn, lāi-té ū kóng-tio̍h 'im-uī' (phoneme) kap im-ti̍t(phone)
> ê tsha-pia̍t. Tsiū guá sóo tsai, TL kā 'eng' siá-tsò 'ing', 'oa' siá-tsò
> 'ua' tíng-tíng, i ê guân-in tō-sī beh tshái-iōng im-uī (im-sòo) lâi su-
> siá, in-uī bûn-jī hē-thóng pún-lâi tō sī ài thiàu-tshut 'im-ti̍t'(phone
> variants) ê im-piau su-khó, sóo-í, TL tsiah ē bô beh siá 'im-piàn'
> kap khiunn-kháu íng-hióng ê 'eng' kap 'oa' t.t, beh siá 'ing' kap 'ua'
> ê im-uī (im-sòo) piáu-kì.
> Uānn uē lâi kóng, TL ê su-siá hong-sik, sīm-tsì sī koh khah ha̍p tī
> bûn-jī--ê, khah m̄-sī im-piau ê lí-lōo. M̄-tsai Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su tuì
> tsit tiám ê khuànn-huat jû-hô?
POJ: "in, eng" , "it, ek" pi TL "in, ing", "it, ik" khah ho hun-piat,
sia liau m-tioh ma khah iong-i khoaN chhut-lai.
"oa, ui, oe" ma pi "ua, ui, ue" khah iong-i hun-pian.
Goa siuN che eng-kai si bun-ji e siat-ke.

I-ha ka in-iong TiuN kau-siu e oe:

文字是一種書面交通的符號。書面交通的符號特別有一寡要求......另外一個要求是愛留較侈無用的io-bih（i.e.
redundancy）......第二組例是複合元音ui,oe,oa。若是書面上出現oi,ue或是ua，讀者隨知有錯誤，因為無這款寫法。
----------------P.179

TiuN k.s. sui-jian u kong "ui, oa, oe" u chiau hoat-im pian-hoa
siu-kai sia-hoat (2001:21),
m-koh ti bun-ji lau khah che teng-hok e soaN-soh, khah-ho jin, i kong
若是書面上出現oi,ue或是ua，讀者隨知有錯誤，因為無這款寫法。(2001:179)
Sia-cho "ui, ue, ua", "ing, in" e kho-lu ma bo-tek-khak si ui-tioh beh
piau-si im-ui, hoan-se si ui-tioh beh hou he-thong khah it-ti,
chong-si it-ti ma u tai-ke, bo chhin-chhiuN POJ hiah khoaN chhut
m-tioh. Goa teh kai hak-seng e chok-giap, oh liau an-choaN, tui in
an-choaN sia
eng, ek, oa, oe, tioh e-tang khoaN chhut-lai, chin ho liah-pau.

I-siong si goa e li-kai, na u m-tioh e sou-chai, chhiaN chi-kau.

Hak-khiam

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 8:17:40 PM
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Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su, to-siā lí ê suat-bîng.

Tiuⁿ k.s. só͘ kóng ê tsit tiám, ū-iáⁿ khah tshim, guá koh ài
siūⁿ--tsi̍t-ē, khuàⁿ ū 1 kang ē-tàng lí-kái--bô XD

Nā ba̍k-kim lâi siūⁿ, guá ē kám-kak kā tsit-ê tō-lí kā tò-píng
sú-iōng, mā sī ē sîng-li̍p--neh.

Pí-lūn kóng, guá mā ē-sái kóng: TL lāi-té pīng bô 'oa', 'oe',
'eng' ê siá-huat, só͘-í tsi̍t-ē khuàⁿ-tio̍h tsiah-ê im-tsat tshut-
hiān, lán tō suî tsai-iáⁿ he sī m̄-tio̍h--ê.

Guá m̄-tsai-iáⁿ ta̍k-ê tú khai-sí o̍h POJ ê sî, kám ū kap guá
kāng-khuán, ū 1 tsióng khùn-jiáu, tō sī lán nā tsiàu ti̍t-kak,
lóng ē siá 'ing', 'ua', 'ue', sī in-uī thuân-thóng siá-huat bô-kâng,
só͘-í lán tsiah ngē pik ka-tī kái siá tsò 'eng', 'oa' kap 'oe'.

Tong-jiân mā ū lâng kóng: tsiàu si̍t-tsè-siōng ê ho͘-im, sī khah
uá 'eng', 'oa' kap 'oe', m̄-koh, tse tō-sī gí-im-ha̍k lāi-té só͘ kóng--
tio̍h ê im-piàn hiān-siōng. Lán ê thâu-khak lâi jīn-uî sī 'ing', 'ua'
kap 'ue', he khah uá tī im-uī (im-sò͘), m̄-koh in-uī huat-im pō͘-uī
t.t. ê íng-hióng, só͘-í sán-sing im-piàn.

Lán kí 'eng' ê lē lâi kóng, i ê im-piàn kui-tsik kiám-tshái thang
siá-tsò án-ne:

/i/----->[e]/_+[+velar]

Só͘-í lán thang tsai 'ing' (lán guân-té thâu-khak lâi ê im-sò͘), sī
án-tsuáⁿ ē tī ho͘-im ê sî piàn-sîng 'eng'.

Tsit-ê im-piàn ê tiâu-kiāⁿ, lán thang uì thuân-thóng POJ ê
'ik', kap 'it', 'eng' kap 'in' ê tuì-tsiàu khuàⁿ ē tshut--lâi.

Iā uì tsia, lán thang kóng TL sī beh tsò 1 thò lí-sióng ê im-sò͘
bûn-jī.

Í-siōng kā lāu-su pò-kò.

Voyu

2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 8:25:04 PM
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Pháiⁿ-sè, siōng ē-kha sǹg--khí-lâi tē 3 tuāⁿ ū typo.

Ing-kai sī:

Tsit-ê im-piàn ê tiâu-kiāⁿ, lán thang uì thuân-thóng POJ ê
'ek', kap 'it', 'eng' kap 'in' ê tuì-tsiàu khuàⁿ ē tshut--lâi.

Koh suat-bîng--tsi̍t-ē: 'ek' kap 'eng' siá--ê sī im-piàn liáu-āu
ê im-ti̍t, m̄-koh in-uī 'it' kap 'in' bô _[+velar] ê im-piàn khuân-
kíng, só͘-í in suah siá bô-kâng, iû-guân pó-tshî im-sò͘ ê khuán-
sik: 'it' kap 'in'.

Voyu
> 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > 2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
> > > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > >> Seng-hian hiaN:
>
> > >> TL kah POJ e koan-he an-choaN sui-lang "siong-siong", goa chiap-siu
> > >> hun-kang,
> > >> goa khoaN tak-ke ma bo an-sng koh beh ti Kau-iok-kai khi cheng-chhu POJ
> > e
> > >> te-ui.
> > >> Che bo sng-hai i ti sia-hoe-siong tong-cho su-sit phiau-chun e te-ui,
> > >> goa ka-ki kam-kak e.
>
> > >> Goa chin-cheng e i-kian chin kan-tan, tioh-si put-koan joa-che-tho
> > >> soan chit tho, tioh soah a.
> > >> Goa bo chan-seng cheng-hap, sui-jian chan-seng cheng-hap e mia-toaN u
> > >> goa e mia, goa teh ioh
> > >> cheng-hap chi-si ke chit tho, c.c. TLPA tong-chhou kang-khoan, lan
> > >> tioh koh tui 0 khai-si,
> > >> goa ma ioh-kong kau-iok-pou bo hit e leng-lek ah-si koat-sim khi
> > >> chhui-sak in soan-pou e he-thong.
> > >> Chit lai-te ki-sit u chin che chhu-bi e mih-kiaN thang-ho khi khoaN.
>
> > >> Goa e siuN-hoat tioh si Henry kong e, cho-i kai-tiau-oaN-tai, POJ ti
> > >> sia-hoe-siong koh ti-leh.
>
> > >> Khah an-ni e si Babuza ka goa kong TOJ e ke-siok iong POJ. Goa chin
> > >> hoaN-hi.
> > >> Gi-gian, bun-ji long m-si kan-ta kang-khu nia, jin-tong e ian-siok tui
> > >> goa lai kong chin tiong-iau.
>
> > >> Hak-khiam
>
> > >> 2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
> > >> > Hak-khiam lau-su,
>
> > >> > Li soo ki2 e le (i-kian), gua uan-tsuan tsan-sing. Lan siann-lang m-si
> > >> > oh thuan-thong POJ tshut--lai-e, lan kah tann long iau siu-tioh thuan-
> > >> > thong POJ e ti3-im3--leh.
>
> > >> > TL si m-si POJ, i kap POJ tsing-tsha jua-tse? Ui-tioh un-tong lan kam
> > >> > be-ing-tit tsiap-siu POJ e siu-siah, tse to si gua tsin-tsing beh kong
> > e
> > >> > ue.
>
> > >> > Ti tsia ma ka in-ui gua e huat-gian kam-kak put-khuai e lang
> > hue-sit-le.
>
> > >> > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > >> >> Lang m-na kan-ta u li-seng nia, ma u cheng-su, chu-koan e chit-bin,
> > >> >> chong-si khah mai cho jin-seng kong-kek,
> > >> >> goa chin-cheng e phoe, na u an-ne e bun-te ai ka tak-ke to-khiam.
>
> > >> >> Goa in-iong chin-cheng cheng-li chit-koa lang e i-kian hou tak-ke
> > >> >> chham-kho:
>
> > >> >> 現代白話字運動背後的動機
>
> > >> >> 文化保存kah歷史記憶沿續是真重要的動機。
> > >> >> 陳鄭弘堯指出支持白話字的一種心理tek的動機是
> > >> >> "希望'過去'kah'現在'會凍相牽連，bë因為政權的來去，
> > >> >> 一直換文字、語言...歷史會凍切作清國/日本時代/ROC時代等等，m-koh白話字'永遠無變。"
>
> > >> >> 文化傳承kah文化資源的觀點
>
> > >> >> 張裕宏（2001）認為beh建立對台語的信心，"就愛hou台灣人知影咱的傳統，
> > >> >> hou台灣人知影家己有久長的好傳統來感覺驕傲，"就目前來講，"白話字的文獻
> > >> >> 夭是上豐富，佔所有得會著得台語文獻得大部份，所以白話字夭是上重要，是負責台語傳承得大樹身。"
>
> > >> >> Hak-khiam
>
> > >> >> 2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
> > >> >> > That-tu-a kia chhut e phoe teh kong tioh li e iong-ji.
> > >> >> > Li ti e-bin chit-tiuN ui-tioh goa iong choan-Lo, goa beh ka li seh
> > >> >> > to-sia.
> > >> >> > Goa kam-kak choan-Lo khah khau-gu-hoa, khah ho thak.
>
> > >> >> > Lan u chin-che lang.
> > >> >> > "khiu kuan-he, puann kam-tsing" e ki-sut su I Pek-choan chit-e.
>
> > >> >> > Lan kam be-hiau / kam bo su-iau "khiu kuan-he, puann kam-tsing".
>
> > >> >> > TADA
>
> > >> >> > 2008/6/15 <[e-mail]>:
> ...
>
> 閱讀更多 »

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 8:45:14 PM
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Voyu hiaN:
Han-ji e su-iong, na si e-tang iaN e koe Tiong-kok-gi e Han-ji piau-chun e oe,
goa siuN bo it-teng ai houN-jim.

Voyu hiaN, li teh kong e si beh seng-jin 1-tho sin e he-thong.
Che kap TL e bok-tek oan-choan bo hu-hap.

Li si teh tai-piau LKK ki-kim-hoe teh kong-oe, ah-si teh tho-lun khoaN-mai nia?

TADA

> Kua-á-tsheh
>
> 2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

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Senghian :

Bo-ai e hap-im si "boai", e-hng e hap-im si "eng".

Lan tui kai3-im e likai, u siutioh chuim huho e enghiong.

Goa chin kamsia POJ hou goa hoat-kak chit-e buntoe.

Goa bo jim-ui "ing/ua" si ngi7-au2, mkoh nasi jimui "eng/oa" bo hap-li, sitchai si bo siaN toli.

Ungian 6.15
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:17:40 +0800, Lau Seng-hian wrote

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 9:00:14 PM
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Tinn bok-su: peng-an!
Kam-sia li e kou-le!

TADA

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 9:07:05 PM
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Tada san,

Hàn-jī ê pō͘-hūn lán tsiām-sî àn-hā, in-uī guá sī kan-taⁿ
the̍h i lâi tsò-lē, thang thó-lūn tsun-tiōng thuân-thóng ê
būn-tê, kiù-tsin he m̄-sī lán ê tsú-tê.

Lí só͘ kóng--ê "na si e-tang iaN e koe Tiong-kok-gi e Han-ji piau-chun e oe,
goa siuN bo it-teng ai houN-jim", tsit-ê tiâu-kiāⁿ tú-tú-hó sī
1 ê hui-thuân-thóng su-khó ê lē, tse tō tsìng-bîng lán teh
tsò kuat-tīng ê sî, thuân-thóng pīng m̄-sī lán uî-it ê
su-khó guân-tsik.

Guá tong-jiân sī tāi-piáu guá kò-jîn huat-giân, LKK ū
tāi-piáu kuân--ê, sī LKK ê tóng-sū-huē, guá put-kò sī
1 ê sut-á, nah ē-tàng tāi-piáu LKK--leh. XD

To-siā.

Voyu

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
Voyu hiaN:

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Jun 15, 2008, 9:13:50 PM
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Un-giân lāu-su,

Uan-óng--oh, guá bô kóng 'eng/oa' bô-ha̍p-lí, guá sī kóng
he só͘ kì-lio̍k--ê, sī im-ti̍t (phone), m̄-sī im-sò͘ (phoneme),
kì-lio̍k im-ti̍t, sī im-piau ê jīm-bū, nā bûn-jī uī-tio̍h beh thiàu-
tshut khiuⁿ-kháu kap kiû kán-síng, khah hó sī īng im-sò͘ lâi
kiàn-kò͘.

Lí só͘ kí ê 'boài' kap 'e̋ng' ê lē, ká-ná kap guá kóng ê lē bô
ti̍t-tsiap ê kuan-hē, in-uī tse lāi-té ká-ná bô khan-sia̍p-tio̍h
im-piàn.

Im-sò͘---> im-piàn--->im-ti̍t ê hiān-siōng, sī huat-sing tī só͘-ū
ê tsú-im kap bó-im tíng-kuân lóng ū khó-lîng--ê, kap kài-im
bô ti̍t-tsiap ê kan-sia̍p.

Huān-sè sī guá liáu-kái bô tsiâu-tsn̂g, tsiah tshiáⁿ kā guá
kái-sueh...

Tsin to-sāi--lí.

Sêng-hiân

2008/6/15 Iunn Un-gian <[e-mail]>:

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Goa si chai-iaN POJ chha-put-to long oan-choan.
Goa hoai-gi Han-ji Taigi kam oan-choan.
Li ka goa e phoe-pheng ti pian-lun-sut lai kong si cheng-khak e.
Chong-si 2 e le, u bo kang e seng-chit.

Han-ji chu-iau si Tiong-kok-oe e bun-ji.
Sou-i Tiong-ha bin-kok the-che ha e Taioan lang siuN beh iong Han-ji e si,
it-teng hou Chi-na-oe eng-hiong tioh.

Sou-i li sou kong e Taigi Han-ji e thoan-thong it-teng e hou lang pho-hai.

POJ leh ?

In-ui Tiong-hoa Bin-kok chin-cheng bo ka LMJ tong-cho si bun-ji.

Sou-i bo sim-mih bun-te.

Goa beh kong e si:

Han-ji si Chi-na-oe e bun-ji.
POJ si Taigi e bun-ji.

TG ti Tiong-hoa bin-kok the-che ha, iong Han-ji iaN be koe Chi-na-oe.
Sou-i TG tioh ai kho POJ.

TADA

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Senghian :

Goa msi chiamtui li, goa si chiamtui TL.

Goa si inui khoaNtioh kai-im e buntoe chiah sia e, khaksit kah li beh tholun e tiongtiam bo titchiap e koanhe.

TLPA tongchhoe tosi kong POJ che bo hap-li, soui ka siukai. Chitma TL chit pouhun titchiap chhau TLPA e.

Lenggoa 1-tiam (masi kah li tholun e mihkiaN bo titchiap koanhe e), lan Taigubang peng bo in-ui TL e chhut-hian, khip-in goanlai TLPA e lang jiplai chia, tianto si goanlai suiong POJ e lang, u 1-pouhun e lang hibong iong TL. i goa e kaktou khoaN, che tosi chenghap sitpai, soah kasok hunliat.

Tou poutiuN e oanthan, goa si ui KhinhoaN hiaN hia chaiiaN e. Goa tui Tou pouhun ma ittit chin chuntiong, i e phahpiaN ma ittit chin kheng-teng, mkoh kinni 4-geh Kok-kau-su e sutiuN kong hethong chai-lang iong e sichun, i bo chhutbin hoanpok, che chinchiaN hou goa e khoaN TL soesiau. Tongjian, goa chin chhengchhou, Kok-kau-su sutiuN (thiaNkong chitma khi cho sin kauiokpouutiuN e pisu) si ui TY kongoe e.

KIP u 1-e chonghap liankiat-an, chhui-chian 1-koa Taioan punthou gugian e bangcham chugoan, goa u 2-e bang-cham u jipsoan, mkoh inui msi TL, in u sia kongbun lai, hibong goa etang kai cho TL. uitioh kauiok e thuitian, goa bo hoan-tui (goa e ansng to chhinchhiuN TGSBA kangkhoan, kausi thekiong 2-e panpun), mkoh in koh kong, inui goa e kojin, in bo beh pouchou kojin. Kijian anne, goa taichi koh chiahni choe, che tongjian to seng an-ha.

In u pouchou Ang Uijin ls cho 1-e bangcham, kiatko, chite nia KIP pouchou cho chhutlai e bangcham, kitiong u 1-pou-hun si tih siuli TiN liongui ks. Suijian KIP u sia phoe khi ka kong, mkoh i e hoetap si, KIP pouchou e chiN si cho bangcham e 1-pouhun nia, bo pouchou siuli TiN ks hit pouhun. Lan chitma tosi kah anne e lang tih chenghap ! Lan chaiiaN KIP iong ti Taigu e chugoan bo choe, kiatko koh si anne bu, li jim-ui goa e annoa khoaNthai TL ?

KIP bo jinchin iong in e kenghui lai khaichhong TL e chugoan, tothau lai chhiuN POJ e khongkan( tongjian, che kholeng msi KIP chutong lai chhiuN e, si goanlai suiong POJ e lang anne cho ) goa jim-ui chit-e chohoat si mtioh e. Che chinchiaN msi chenghap lah ! Untong to msi anne bu e !

Ungian 6.15
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:13:50 +0800, Lau Seng-hian wrote

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Jun 15, 2008, 9:47:18 PM
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Tada sàn,

Lí kóng--ê guá lóng kám-kak tsin ū tō-lí.

M̄-koh, tshiáⁿ huan-thâu lâi siūⁿ: lí só͘ kóng
tsiah-ê lí-iû, sī m̄-sī 'tsun-tiōng thuân-thóng'
í-guā ê lí-iû? Ta̍p-àn tsin bîng-hián sī 'm̄-sī'.

Kú-só͘ guá kiông-tiāu: guá kí lē m̄-sī beh
thó-lūn Hàn-jī, sī beh tu̍t-hián: lán teh tsò
kuat-tīng ê sī, ū sî-tsūn khak-si̍t ē kā thuân-
thóng tsiām-sî àn-hā, in-uī tû-khì thuân-thóng
í-guā, iáu ū pa̍t-hāng tāi-tsì ài khó-lū.

Só͘-í, guá tsàn-sîng: lán pit-su tio̍h tsun-tiōng
POJ ê thuân-thóng, in-uī tse sī 1 kiāⁿ tsin tiōng-
iàu ê tiâu-kiāⁿ.

M̄-koh, POJ ê thuân-thóng kan-taⁿ sī lán su-khó
lāi-té, pit-su khó-lū ê tsē-tsē tiâu-kiāⁿ lāi-té ê 1
hāng, lán tsin ū khó-lîng in-uī kî-thaⁿ ê tāi-tsì, só͘-
í pit-su tio̍h tī tsun-tiōng thuân-thóng tsit tiám tsò-
tshut thè-niū.

Tō tshin-tshiūⁿ lí kóng--ê, sú-iōng Hán-jī bē-bián-tit
siū Tiong-kok si̍t-bîn thé-tsè ê íng-hióng, só͘-í sui-jiân
lán bîng-bîng ū Hàn-jī ê Tâi-bûn thuân-thóng, m̄-koh
uī-tio̍h thuân-thóng í-guā ê in-sò͘, lán khó-lîng bô beh
khì khò͘ tsuân hit-ê thuân-thóng.

Guá tuì thuân-thóng POJ ê khuàⁿ-huat mā sī án-ne,
só͘-í guá tsun-tiōng thuân-thóng, m̄-koh pīng bô àn-sǹg
beh uân-tsuân hō͘ thuân-thóng sok-pa̍k.

---

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 9:53:53 PM
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Voyu hiaN:
Li kong Han-ji Taibun e thoan-thong,

u sim-mih piau-chun?
Sim-mih lang teh ka?
Sim-mih lang teh su-iong?
Sim-mih lang iong he lai sia-phoe?

He kap POJ tai-bun be-tang pi.

TADA

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 9:58:09 PM
to Tai-gu-bang
Ún-giân lāu-su,

To-siā lí thê-kiong tsiah-ê tsu-sìn.

Tsiah-ê tāi-tsì guá lóng m̄-tsai, thiaⁿ--khí-lâi mā
kám-kak tsin uàn-thàn.

ps. Hit kho͘ su-tiùⁿ khì tsò KIP pō͘-tiúⁿ ê pì-su....
tsit-siaⁿ ū-iáⁿ tsin hāi. Sī kóng, TY sī phîng siáⁿ-mih
, ē-tàng tī tsìng-hú lāi-té an-tshah tsiah-ni̍h tsē thiāu-á
-kha--haⁿh...

Voyu
> > > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > > 2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
>
> > > > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > > >> Seng-hian hiaN:
>
> > > >> TL kah POJ e koan-he an-choaN sui-lang "siong-siong", goa chiap-siu
> > > >> hun-kang,
> > > >> goa khoaN tak-ke ma bo an-sng koh beh ti Kau-iok-kai khi cheng-chhu POJ e
> > > >> te-ui.
> > > >> Che bo sng-hai i ti sia-hoe-siong tong-cho su-sit phiau-chun e te-ui,
> > > >> goa ka-ki kam-kak e.
>
> > > >> Goa chin-cheng e i-kian chin kan-tan, tioh-si put-koan joa-che-tho
> > > >> soan chit tho, tioh soah a.
> > > >> Goa bo chan-seng cheng-hap, sui-jian chan-seng cheng-hap e mia-toaN u
> > > >> goa e mia, goa teh ioh
> > > >> cheng-hap chi-si ke chit tho, c.c. TLPA tong-chhou kang-khoan, lan
> > > >> tioh koh tui 0 khai-si,
> > > >> goa ma ioh-kong kau-iok-pou bo hit e leng-lek ah-si koat-sim khi
> > > >> chhui-sak in soan-pou e he-thong.
> > > >> Chit lai-te ki-sit u chin che chhu-bi e mih-kiaN thang-ho khi khoaN.
>
> > > >> Goa e siuN-hoat tioh si Henry kong e, cho-i kai-tiau-oaN-tai, POJ ti
> > > >> sia-hoe-siong koh ti-leh.
>
> > > >> Khah an-ni e si Babuza ka goa kong TOJ e ke-siok iong POJ. Goa chin
> > > >> hoaN-hi.
> > > >> Gi-gian, bun-ji long m-si kan-ta kang-khu nia, jin-tong e ian-siok tui
> > > >> goa lai kong chin tiong-iau.
>
> > > >> Hak-khiam
>
> > > >> 2008/6/15 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
> > > >> > Hak-khiam lau-su,
>
> > > >> > Li soo ki2 e le (i-kian), gua uan-tsuan tsan-sing. Lan siann-lang m-si
> > > >> > oh thuan-thong POJ tshut--lai-e, lan kah tann long iau siu-tioh thuan-
> > > >> > thong POJ e ti3-im3--leh.
>
> > > >> > TL si m-si POJ, i kap POJ tsing-tsha jua-tse? Ui-tioh un-tong lan kam
> > > >> > be-ing-tit tsiap-siu POJ e siu-siah, tse to si gua tsin-tsing beh kong e
> > > >> > ue.
>
> > > >> > Ti tsia ma ka in-ui gua e huat-gian kam-kak put-khuai e lang hue-sit-le.
>
> > > >> > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> > > >> >> Lang m-na kan-ta u li-seng nia, ma u cheng-su, chu-koan e chit-bin,
> > > >> >> chong-si khah mai cho jin-seng kong-kek,
> > > >> >> goa chin-cheng e phoe, na u an-ne e bun-te ai ka tak-ke to-khiam.
>
> > > >> >> Goa in-iong chin-cheng cheng-li chit-koa lang e i-kian hou tak-ke
> > > >> >> chham-kho:
>
> ...
>
> 閱讀更多 »

---

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TADA Kei
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:10:30 PM
to Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
M-si Thong-iong li-hai,
Si Kok-bin-tong li-hai. Si-m-si an-ne?
Thong-iong e poe-keng si siam-mih,
che ai tiau-cha.
Voyu hiaN, goa khoaN li chiok u nai-sim.
Li kap I Pek-choan to chit-e khah gau?
Goa siuN li lai tui-khong Thong-iong goa ho le.

TADA

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:10:47 PM
to Tai-gu-bang
Tada sàn,

Hàn-jī Tâi-bûn ê thuân-thóng, guá mā bô tsuân-bīn
ê liáu-kái, in-uī guá kiù-tsin m̄-sī o̍h bûn-ha̍k--ê.

M̄-koh, kua-á-tsheh tō sī 1 ê lē, nā beh kóng kua-á
-tsheh ê iōng-jī, sui-jiân bô 100% ê it-tì, m̄-koh khak-
si̍t ū 1 ê phue-bô͘--tshut-lâi, ū sán-sîng iok-tīng-sio̍k-
sîng ê iōng-jī si̍p-kuàn.

Līng-guā tsi̍t-pō͘-hūn, ing-kai tō sī Ji̍p-pún Sî-tāi ê Hàn-
jī Tâi-gí bûn-ha̍k--a, tshin-tshiūⁿ Koeh Chhiu-seng in só͘
siá ê tshì-giām-sìng ê tsok-phín, koh ū Lí Hiàn-chiuⁿ īng
Hàn-jī kì-lio̍k ê bîn-kan bûn-ha̍k tshái-tsip.

Tsóng--sī guá m̄-sī o̍h bûn-ha̍k--ê, kóng tsiah-ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ
ē hō͘ lâng tshiò...guá iā sī sing kóng án-ne tō hó.

Hàn-jī thuân-thóng kiám-tshái bô-huat-tō͘ kap lô-má-jī pí
(tsit tiám guá mā bô tsò kuè gián-kiù, só͘-í sī tsiām-tsî
án-ne ká-tīng), m̄-koh tsit-ê Tâi-bûn thuân-thóng sī tik-si̍t
tsûn-tsāi--ê.

Tsóng--sī, lán sī án-tsuáⁿ ē kóng tuì tsia lâi?

Voyu

On 6月15日, 下午9時53分, "Kei TADA" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Voyu hiaN:
>
> Li kong Han-ji Taibun e thoan-thong,
>
> u sim-mih piau-chun?
> Sim-mih lang teh ka?
> Sim-mih lang teh su-iong?
> Sim-mih lang iong he lai sia-phoe?
>
> He kap POJ tai-bun be-tang pi.
>
> TADA
>
> > 2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> Goa si chai-iaN POJ chha-put-to long oan-choan.
> >> Goa hoai-gi Han-ji Taigi kam oan-choan.
>
> >> Li ka goa e phoe-pheng ti pian-lun-sut lai kong si cheng-khak e.
> >> Chong-si 2 e le, u bo kang e seng-chit.
>
> >> Han-ji chu-iau si Tiong-kok-oe e bun-ji.
> >> Sou-i Tiong-ha bin-kok the-che ha e Taioan lang siuN beh iong Han-ji e si,
> >> it-teng hou Chi-na-oe eng-hiong tioh.
>
> >> Sou-i li sou kong e Taigi Han-ji e thoan-thong it-teng e hou lang pho-hai.
>
> >> POJ leh ?
>
> >> In-ui Tiong-hoa Bin-kok chin-cheng bo ka LMJ tong-cho si bun-ji.
>
> >> Sou-i bo sim-mih bun-te.
>
> >> Goa beh kong e si:
>
> >> Han-ji si Chi-na-oe e bun-ji.
> >> POJ si Taigi e bun-ji.
>
> >> TG ti Tiong-hoa bin-kok the-che ha, iong Han-ji iaN be koe Chi-na-oe.
> >> Sou-i TG tioh ai kho POJ.
>
> >> TADA
>
> >> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Tada san,
>
> >> > Hàn-jī ê pō͘-hūn lán tsiām-sî àn-hā, in-uī guá sī kan-taⁿ
> >> > the̍h i lâi tsò-lē, thang thó-lūn tsun-tiōng thuân-thóng ê
> >> > būn-tê, kiù-tsin he m̄-sī lán ê tsú-tê.
>
> >> > Lí só͘ kóng--ê "na si e-tang iaN e koe Tiong-kok-gi e Han-ji piau-chun e
> >> > oe,
> >> > goa siuN bo it-teng ai houN-jim", tsit-ê tiâu-kiāⁿ tú-tú-hó sī
> >> > 1 ê hui-thuân-thóng su-khó ê lē, tse tō tsìng-bîng lán teh
> >> > tsò kuat-tīng ê sî, thuân-thóng pīng m̄-sī lán uî-it ê
> >> > su-khó guân-tsik.
>
> >> > Guá tong-jiân sī tāi-piáu guá kò-jîn huat-giân, LKK ū
> >> > tāi-piáu kuân--ê, sī LKK ê tóng-sū-huē, guá put-kò sī
> >> > 1 ê sut-á, nah ē-tàng tāi-piáu LKK--leh. XD
>
> >> > To-siā.
>
> >> > Voyu
>
> >> > 2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> >> Voyu hiaN:
>
> >> >> Han-ji e su-iong, na si e-tang iaN e koe Tiong-kok-gi e Han-ji
> >> >> piau-chun e
> >> >> oe,
> >> >> goa siuN bo it-teng ai houN-jim.
>
> >> >> Voyu hiaN, li teh kong e si beh seng-jin 1-tho sin e he-thong.
> >> >> Che kap TL e bok-tek oan-choan bo hu-hap.
>
> >> >> Li si teh tai-piau LKK ki-kim-hoe teh kong-oe, ah-si teh tho-lun
> >> >> khoaN-mai
> >> >> nia?
>
> >> >> TADA
>
> >> >> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>
> >> >> > 2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> >> >> Bun-ji kap im-ui bo it-teng ai u koan-he.
>
> >> >> >> Na bo chun-tiong thoan-thong e su-kho, be u bi-lai.
> >> >> >> Chit-khoan e su-kho e chiap-siu kiong-se e ap-lek.
> >> >> >> Hou thong-ti-chia kam-kak Taioan lang chin ho phian.
> >> >> >> Hian-chong ma si it-tit teh pian.
>
> >> >> >> TADA
>
> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>
> >> >> >> > 2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
>
> >> >> >> >> Seng-hian hiaN:
>
> >> >> >> >> TL kah POJ e koan-he an-choaN sui-lang "siong-siong", goa
> >> >> >> >> chiap-siu
> >> >> >> >> hun-kang,
> >> >> >> >> goa khoaN tak-ke ma bo an-sng koh beh ti Kau-iok-kai khi
> >> >> >> >> cheng-chhu
> >> >> >> >> POJ
> >> >> >> >> e
> >> >> >> >> te-ui.
> >> >> >> >> Che bo sng-hai i ti sia-hoe-siong tong-cho su-sit phiau-chun e
> >> >> >> >> te-ui,
> >> >> >> >> goa ka-ki kam-kak e.
>
> >> >> >> >> Goa chin-cheng e i-kian chin kan-tan, tioh-si put-koan
> >> >> >> >> joa-che-tho
> >> >> >> >> soan chit tho, tioh soah a.
> >> >> >> >> Goa bo
>
> ...
>
> 閱讀更多 »

---

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:18:51 PM
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Tada sàn,

Hah.....lí khue--guá XD

Guá khuàⁿ sī LÁN lóng tsiok ū nāi-sim,
m̄-sī kan-taⁿ guá niā-tiāⁿ--lah.

Voyu

On 6月15日, 下午10時10分, "Kei TADA" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> M-si Thong-iong li-hai,
> Si Kok-bin-tong li-hai. Si-m-si an-ne?
> Thong-iong e poe-keng si siam-mih,
> che ai tiau-cha.
>
> Voyu hiaN, goa khoaN li chiok u nai-sim.
> Li kap I Pek-choan to chit-e khah gau?
> Goa siuN li lai tui-khong Thong-iong goa ho le.
>
> TADA
>
> ...
>
> 閱讀更多 »

---

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[e-mail]
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:25:39 PM
to TADA Kei, Sêng-hiân, Tai-gu-bang
Tada:
Goa khoaN li pi goa khah koan-sim chit kiaN tai-chi.
Li e Tai-gi sit-chai sia-liau chiaN ho.
Goa siuN Voyu u jin-chin teh thui-sak TL, an-ne chin ho,
ka kou-le tioh-ho, chhun-e goa siuN li kah goa e siuN-hoat,
khah kang e pou-hun, eng-kai si TL kah POJ be-tang si zero game e koan-he,
m-thang in-ui TL lai ka POJ hui-tiau, tek-piat si chit e u 17 ni
lek-su e khan-but.

Goa chin siuN beh chai-iaN TBTS chit e koat-teng e koat-chhek
koe-teng, si an-choaN,
na u lang chai-iaN pai-thok kong chit e, na bo hong-pian tit-chiap
thoan mail hou goa ma e-sai-tit.
Chit e koe-teng, chhiu-hoat na liau-kai chiong-lai theng-ho eng-iong
ti ki-tha e sou-chai.
Goa teh ioh chit e kou-su khiong-kiaN tioh na-chhiuN Trojian horse kang-khoan,
kin-ni m-si Be-ni, m-koh chin che kah Be/Ma u koan-he e mih-kiaN.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/15 Kei TADA <[e-mail]>:

---

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[e-mail]
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:31:30 PM
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Voyu:
Goa ma-si chiaN u nai-sim.
Goa chit-tui tai-chi long iau-boe cho-soah,
ma-si ti-chia sia kui-pou, ke-kiam u eng-hiong sim-cheng,
hak-seng khau-chhi, m-chai e koe kui e?

Goa e ko-seng tioh-si kou-chit, sou-i goa e it-tit sia.
Goa ma ai lai ho-ho-a tiau-cha chit kiaN tai-chi e koe-teng.
Kau-si na u sek-hap kong hou tak-ke thiaN, goa tioh kong,
bo tioh chhiaN tak-ke khah hu-hui e tian-oe lai mng goa.

Chit e tiau-cha-po-ko ai koh chit kou-goeh, ban-ban-a tan.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/15 <[e-mail]>:

---

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[e-mail]
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:39:01 PM
to Tai-gu-bang, Sêng-hiân
Senghian :

Paukoah goa chincheng sia POJ kah TLPA e buntoe, kisit goa msi tongsujin, longsi lang thekiong hou goa e taichi, goa khi ka tau khilai e, kisit goa ma chaiiaN iahkoh laukau chinchoe te (nachhiuN pheng-tou anne)

Kokkausu sutiuN, chincheng pat cho ke Taipakkoan e kauiokkiok tiuN, anne li engkai to u soaNsoh a.

ThiaNkong Upekchoan e bousek si, i e kah tengkoan e lang iu-soeh, putkoan annoa, chichio in pochhi ho e koanhe. suijian tengkoan bo ha bengleng lohlai, mkoh in e ka ekha e lang kong, tengkoan tosi beh iong TY, sou-i lin ai phoehap. Tongjian, tui hengcheng koaNliau lai khoaN, in e liahchoe UPekchoan si choanka, Upekchoan e thekiong chinchoe lan jim-ui si chin u buntoe e chusin hou in.

Koh lai beh kong e si lenggoa e taichi.

Goa e-ki-e 2002 ni cho-iu, goa u ti tousukoan chioh tioh 1-pun Engbun e chu, tih kong gugian kauhakhoat e, laitoe u kongtioh, 1-e susia hethong e cheteng, kipun siong si 3-chiong lang thohiap e kiatko : chengtika, kauiok hakchia kah gugianhakchia.

Lan lai khoaN Taioan, kauiokhakchia kah gugianhakchia esai khoaN choe kangkhoan e, Upekchoan e poekeng si Simlihak, kisit si kah gugianhak lioh-a u koanhe.

Goa beh kong e si, kekhi 10-tang, chhut-hian 3-e chengtika, tosi Tang Tiongsi, UPekchoan kah KhinhoaN hiaN. 3 e lang sak 3-tho hethong, mkoh bo POJ.

Goa msi kauhoe e lang, 1-khaisi chiapchhiok ke chinchoe tho huho, hitchun soantek POJ, tosi goa jim-ui, iong POJ , li to u kihoe tittioh chi-oan, putkoan si subin chuliau, iahsi pengiu. Kengke 10-kui-tang a, chichio goa jim-ui goa tongchhoe e phoaNtoan si tioh e.

Lan e buntoe , kipunsiong peng msi huho e siatke u hapli bo hapli e buntoe, si lan bo koaNhong te-ui e buntoe, goa kong e koaNhong te-ui, si chi Taigu piNchoe koaNhong uiit jim-teng e gugian kah bunji. Na bo anne, to sng kekhi 400 tang, lan e susia hethong si it-ti e, kangkhoan hou lang khoaN boe khi.

Chitkhoan chengheng ha, koaNhong teng Taigu e huho, kau bokchian uichi, to kanna choseng hunloan. "kongko" (goa jim-ui che si u buntoe e kongko) TLPA, choseng tuikhong, kongko TL, kangkhoan choseng tuikhong. (Tongjian, goa jim-ui koaNhong u suiau khi cho, nabo tosi sitbin chenghu a)

To chhiuN goa teng 1-tiuN phoe kong e, TL sak chhutlai liauau, peng bo goanlai TLPA e lang lai Taigubang, tianto si lan TGBang e lang u kholeng beh hun cho 2-e tin-iaN, lan ai khoaN e POJ khanbut ma beh hunliat a.

Lan kam suiau hoanlo hakseng bo khogoa thokbut thang khoaN ? Na chinchiaN u chitkhoan suiau, chhutpansia to chhiuN beh cho, kunpun to bian hoanlo. Hohong POJ kah TL kijian bo chhiongtut, chichhi TL e lang khoaNtioh POJ, kam e khi paithek ? Goa ui-hou e Taihoa soaNteng sutian suiong POJ, kekhi 1-tang , pengkun tak kang u 2500 pai e chhasun, chia e chhasun chia, kam longsi chichhi POJ e ? Ma bi pitjian, Lan na kiong5, lang to beh oa lai, lan na koh hunchoe POJ kah TL 2-peng (TBTS beh kai a, BP goa mchai, mkoh Wikipedia si POJ ...) kanna ke hou lang khoaN lan soesiau nia.

Khia ti untong , chhui-sak e kaktou lai khoaN, goa choattui e jimui che si chhogou e honghiong.

TL u i kaitoaN seng e kongleng, chiamsi ma ikeng tatseng a, nasi beh Promote, engkai si chenghu e chugoan lohlai, poeiong sin e lang khilai, nasi etang kah lan goanlai e chugoan kiathap, hou Taigu ong khilai, anne si housiong pangchan, tui Taigu e hoattian iu-li, anne chin ho. Kasu msi anne, goa si jim-ui, mai koh loan a (suijian ma bo chha li chit tho !)

Ungian 6.15

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:58:09 -0700 (PDT), voyu.lau wrote

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 11:18:51 PM
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Tsu-uī,

Ha̍k-khiam lāu-su kóng guá teh jīn-tsin tshui-sak TL,
kî-si̍t kah bo̍k-tsîng uî-tsí, guá kan-taⁿ sī ka-tī suán-ti̍k
sú-iōng TL, nā beh kóng tshui-sak, guá koh m̄-tsai beh
án-tsuáⁿ tshui-sak khí.

Tō tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit-ê būn-tê tsi̍t-khai-sí thó-lūn--ê, kin-pún
bô lâng iah tan-uī ū huat-tō͘ iau-kiù lâng kái-iōng līng-guā ê
hē-thóng, uāⁿ uē lâi kóng, tû-khì ka-tī sú-iōng, kap hām pa̍t-
lâng suat-bîng sú-iōng ê guân-in í-guā, m̄-tsai iáu ū siáⁿ-mih
hong-sik ē-tàng khì 'tshui-sak'...

Kan-tan-tik kóng, thuân-thóng kan-taⁿ sī guá khó-lū tāi-tsì
lāi-té ê 1 ê in-sò͘ niā-tiāⁿ, guá beh ài--ê, sī Tâi-bûn tsìng-sik
ê tē-uī, piau-tsún-huà, kap tsiâⁿ-tsò Tâi-uân ê kuaⁿ-hong gí-
giân. Nā i piau-tsún-huà liáu-āu ê khuán-sik sī sím-mi̍h, he
sī iu-sian tshù-sū pâi tī khah āu-piah ê bo̍k-piau, guá bē kā
hē tī tē-it-uī.

Só͘-í, nā ū 1 kang Tâi-bûn tsín-hing--a, jî-tshiáⁿ piau-tsún-huà
ê bûn-jī sī thuân-thóng ê POJ, guá kāng-khuán ē tsin huaⁿ-hí.

TL ia̍h hó, thuân-thóng POJ ia̍h hó, lóng kan-taⁿ sī lán bó-gí
ê tsài-thé (vehicle), tse tō sī guá ê siūⁿ-huat.

ps. Tong-jiân mā sī beh tsó͘-tòng TY, in-uī he si̍t-tsāi siuⁿ-kuè
lī-king--a, sîng-pún kap tāi-kè siuⁿ kuân, sio-tsíng-huē (thò-hia̍p)
tsóng-sī ài ū 1 ê té-tsí.

Voyu

2008/6/15 Hak-khiam TiuN <[e-mail]>:
Voyu:

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 15, 2008, 11:48:32 PM
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Ún-giân lāu-su,

Guá pīng bô jīn-uî TL sī 1 ê sit-pāi. Beh kóng i sit-pāi,
guá ē tán i tī kàu-io̍k thé-hē lo̍h-tshhē, sit-khì kuaⁿ-hong
tē-uī tsiah lâi kóng.

Sui-jiân bô siông-sè ê thóng-kè tsu-liāu, guá iû-guân kám-
kak TLPA khak-si̍t in-uī tsit-ê tsíng-ha̍p, í-kíng bô koh tsài
ū kuè-khì ê íng-hióng-li̍k. Guá kan-taⁿ khuàⁿ Hái-ang Tâi-gí
Bûn-ha̍k lóng īng TL, kap TLPA tsiām-tsiām uì kàu-kho-su
siau-sit, tō kám-kak tsin ū sîng-kó--ah.

In-uī koh khah án-tsuáⁿ kóng, TL pí TLPA koh ke tsin tsiap-
kīn thuân-thóng ê POJ, sī TL ê tsíng-ha̍p sîng-kong, lán tsit-
má tsiah ē-īng-tit kui-sim tuì-hù TY, nā bô, lán tsit-má iû-guân
tī tshiau-kuè 3 ê tuā lia̍p suaⁿ-thâu ê tsiàn-tsing lāi-té teh bo̍k-
bo̍k-siû--leh.

Koh kóng--tsi̍t-pái, guá jīn-uî POJ ê tīng-gī bô hiah e̍h, TL kap
POJ sī siang-siⁿ-á, tsoè-āu sī toh-tsi̍t-ê ē-tàng tsiâⁿ-tsò Tâi-uân
-kok ê bûn-jī lóng hó. M̄-koh TL nā ē-tàng tī kuaⁿ-hong kap kàu-
io̍k thé-hē khiā hō͘ tsāi, tuì tsit-ê ūn-tōng sī hó m̄-sī bái.

TL beh tī kuaⁿ-hong kap kàu-io̍k thé-hē khiā-tsāi, tong-jiân su-
iàu lán ê ő͘-ián.

Tshiáⁿ ta̍k-ê huê-siūⁿ TL kong-pò͘ tsìn-tsîng Tâi-bûn suaⁿ-thâu
luān-tshau-tshau ê tsîng-hóng, lán kin-á-ji̍t ū TL tī hîng-tsìng thé-
hē lāi-té teh piàⁿ, sī tsin tuā ê sîng-kó kám m̄-sī? Bó, kám beh
hō͘ TY kui uáⁿ phâng--khì, lán tsiah lâi kan-khó͘?

Tsháⁿ ta̍k-ê huan-thâu lâi siūⁿ, nā m̄-sī TL ê tsíng-ha̍p, TLPA ê
sè-li̍k kám ē tsū án-ne siau-hong--khì? Nā bô TL, lán tsit-má kám
ū tī kàu-io̍k thé-hē ê sè-bīn???

Taⁿ lán lóng kóng tsíng-ha̍p bô hó, in-uī lán bô siūⁿ-khuàⁿ nā
bô tsíng-ha̍p, tsit-má ē juā tshám. Kan-taⁿ POJ kap TLPA ê
tsiàn-tsing tō phah bē suah--a, koh khah bián kóng TY.

Ún-giân lāu-su 2 pái kóng-tio̍h bô guân-té TLPA ê lâng lâi ka-ji̍p
TGB ê tāi-tsì, guá siūⁿ-tio̍h siōng-bô ū 1 ê lē: Tâi-tāi I-ha̍k-īⁿ hit
kuí-ê ha̍k-sing, in guân-té lóng sī īng TLPA--ê, taⁿ in-uī KIP kong-
pò͘ TL, lóng khai-sí īng TL--a, mā in-uī Phok-goân ê siāu-kài lâi
tī tsia.

Beh īng ū lâng lâi ka-ji̍p TGB--bô tsò phuàⁿ-tuàn, kî-si̍t mā bô
tsiok tsìng-khak, TGB koh khah án-tsuáⁿ kóng pīng bô kong-khai
suan-thuân tsio lâng ji̍p lâi tsò huē-uân, guā-kháu ū juā-tsē lâng
tsai-iáⁿ TGB, koh ū juā-tsē lâng tsai-iáⁿ beh án-tsuáⁿ ka-ji̍p, tse
pún-sin tō sī 1 ê būn-tê.

Tsóng kóng 1 kù, guá kò-jîn ū khuàⁿ-tio̍h tsíng-ha̍p ê sîng-kó,
thuân-thóng POJ ê lâng sī ū lâng khì siá TL bô-m̄-tio̍h, M̄-KOH
, tsháiⁿ ta̍k-ê kā ba̍k-tsiu peh kim, khuàⁿ hiah-ê guân-té siá
TLPA ê lâng (pau-kuat bó-gí kàu-su kap khan-bu̍t tsok-tsiá),
tō tsai-iáⁿ tsi-tshî POJ ê khuah-ì lâng-gia̍h sī tsing-ka--ê, tsit-ê
tsíng-ha̍p sī ū sîng-kó--ê, lán m̄-thang bô-sū-bô-tân tō beh kā
tsò-tsi̍t-ē lóng hió-tīng.

Voyu

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Sêng-hiân
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:14:00 AM
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真歹勢，我猶原足相信 TGB 內底有全羅閱讀速度 khah 慢，
致使影響 in 讀全羅文章 ê 朋友。

容允我用漢羅 lām 寫 koh 講--tsi̍t-ē，當然我相信咱 lóng 知
尊重 suî 人使用文字系統 ê 權利，我 koh-khah 相信，1 篇
tuann-tiah ê 台語文，就準用漢字，mā bē hō͘ i kui-ê 變做華
語 ê tuè 尾 á。

－－－－－－－－－

看著對台羅 TL 整合功效 ê 否定，請 ta̍k-ê kā 記持 pá-kuh
去整合進前 ê 時代，有足濟粒系統山頭，3 粒大山頭（傳統
POJ、TLPA kap 通用）互相 m̄ 讓，教科書 ê 市場，是 TLPA
kap 通用 ê 天下，母語教師，mā 以使用 TLPA kap 通用 ê 人
額上濟。

Hit 當 tsūn，咱無人 tī 體制內底，官方無正式 ê 母語競賽、官方
無去做有台語字幕 ê bàng-gah，官方 mā 無 tī 媒體使用台語文，
taⁿ，tsiah-ê 代誌 lóng 做 tsiâⁿ--a。

我請 ta̍k-ê 特別注意公視 ê 台語新聞，i ê 播送背景 tiāⁿ-tiāⁿ 出
現羅馬字 ê 台翻譯，tse 若是無整合，官方 kám ē 做？Tse 若
是無整合，出現 tī hiah-ê 所在--ê（比賽、媒體等等），真可能
就是通用、或者是 TLPA。

所以，咱絕對 bē-sái 講整合是 1 ê 錯誤！因為按呢講無合 tī
事實，現此時雖然國民黨 koh 執政，母語政策百面 ē 退步，m̄
-koh 咱明明看著過去 hit 8 冬小小 ê 進步，而且 tsiah-ê 進步，
若是無整合 ê 過程，我相信無可能出現！！！！！（無--者，
就是用 TLPA kap 通用 ê 款式出現）

使用闊義 ê POJ ê 人有增加！咱 kan-taⁿ 看過去排第三 ê 台語
文雜誌，一向使用 TLPA ê《海翁台語文學》tsit-má lóng 改用
TL 就知；咱 kan-taⁿ看教科書 ê 用字，uì 過去通用 kap TLPA
佔大份，變做現此時 ê TL 佔贏面就知；咱 kan-taⁿ 看母語教師
，uì 大部份無用 POJ，變做 tsit-má TL POJ 變主流，咱就知！
！！！

整合，hō͘ POJ 行出過去 ê 困境，咱 m̄-thang 無稽無考就 beh
kā 全面否定，按呢實在真 hō͘ 人傷心。

Voyu

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Che si pi 殖民chia e pi-ai.

Goa siuN beh kong--e si, TL e cheng-hap si tui TW sia-hoe hui-siong toa e kong-hian, sou-i ti kong-khai tiuN-hap goa si 100% e chi-chhi.

Tan-si chiu-sng TGB, a-si Kau-hoe Kong-po-sia long kai-iong TL, Thong-iong--e kap i 背後e chi-chhi-chia ma eng-oan boe moa-i--e.
Bun-te put-chai su-iong to chit-tho, chai-ti lang kun-pun to bo-ai lan eng.

Jin-sek

2008/6/13 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:
Tekhoa 所講「paukhoah hit-chun beh soeh-hok tak-e chi-chhi
cheng-hap-pan e kong-hoat kap chit-ma beh kai iong cheng-hap
-pan e kong-hoat cheng-au to chin chhiong-thut--a」。

我有 1 e 感想：

親像我，並 m 是 hit 當 tsun 參加 ti 連署 kap 協調內底 e 人，我
kan-tann 是 1 e 單純支持母語運動 e 人，我無了解當原初 ti 連署
kap 協調中間，到底有 siann-mih 款講法 kap 策略是 ，我所聽、
所知--e，全全是 lin 對外聯合 e 信念、宣佈，tsiah-e 宣佈，就是
阮「普通人」所知--e 一切。

請問列位有參加 ti hit-e 過程中間 e sian-pai：

「Lin 當初時是 an-tsuann ka 阮講--e？ 我翻頭想 hit 屆 e 世界台
語文化營，lin 並無 ti hit 中間 ka 阮 tsiah-e 參與者講 he kan-tann
是"策略"，he kan-tann 是"戰術"，lin 並無說明 he m 是"目標，ma
m 是"大戰略"，我所聽--著--e，long 是 lin 真誠懇、真熱情 ka 阮
tsiah-e 支持者／跟 tue 者宣佈整合成功，我所聽--著-e，是 lin 真
用心、真努力 beh 說服阮用行動支持教羅 kap TLPA e 整合，tann
，lin beh 退轉去無整合進前 e 立場，tse 是 m 是代表 lin hit 當 tsun
是 teh ka 阮騙？ 就 1 e 參與者／跟 tue 者 e 角度來看，tsit 種做法
，kap 民進黨執政，講 1 套做 1 套，是有 siann-mih 無仝？？？」

我 iau e 記得宣佈整合無久，我就發覺 tsit 種言行無一致 e 情形--a
，hit 當 tsun 我真 giau 疑 ma 感覺真奇怪，就我 1 e 單純 e 參與者
／跟 tue 者來看，我已經照 lin hit 當 tsun 講 hoo 阮聽--e 理路，去
實踐整合 e 誠意 kap 信念--a，是 an-tsuann 結果是阮 tsiah-e 相信
--lin e 人行 ti 頭前，主導 kap hit 時 tsun huah kah 上大聲 e 人 khia
ti 原所在無動無 tan？

M-tsiah 我 e 請列位 sian-pai 翻頭想看當原初 lin 是按怎 ka 阮講--e
，lin e 新聞稿、資料 kap 發言 e 內容是 siann-mih，創 kah hiah-nih
大 e 過程中，阮所聽--著-e，原來並 m 是 lin e 真心話？原來，阮去
參加、實踐 e 結果，是阮 khah 戅，所以去 hoo 騙--去？

Kam 是按呢？

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goa kong "hoaiN-chha gia jip chhau", u 2 e i-su

(1) si teh kong tong-chhoe-si e cheng-hap
chit-ma lan ti chia teh tholun chit-e bunte chin koai-ki
eng-kai si teh tam cheng-hap e si tioh-ai tho-lun--e
mkoh hit-chun bo lang ti chia soeh-beng
ma bo hou lang tholun e kihoe
kiatko chhut--lai chiah beh kio tak-e toe
(cheng-hap hong-an chhut-lai chiah teh chhoe lang liansu)

(2) si teh kong bi-lai
na eng KIP u jinteng lai chhai-iong TL
pau-khoah "chhi-tiuN' e kho-lu
toa-pou-hun kong-khai e khan-but kin-cha-ban long e kai iong TL
anne khoaN--lai, chun 1-e 1-e ko-jin koh kian-chhi POJ u siaN lou-iong?
na kong-khai e tiuN-hap long si TL
goa koh iong POJ kan-taN ko-jin e i-gi nia
to na-chhiuN goa gi e le:
na BP kai-iong TL, goa iong POJ sia--e khi tauko
BP kam e khan POJ-pan? NO, itteng si kai cho TL-pan--e, kam msi?

kai-iong TL e kong-hoat na e thong
chiau chit-e chhu-se loh--khi
long e pek lang kai iong TL

lenggoa, Seng-hian hiaN li kong e piau-chun-hoa kap goa jin-ui--e bo siaN kang
piau-chun-hoa/su-bin-hoa msi teh kong "bo-kang" he-thong anchoaN piN-cho toaN-it-hoa

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goa koh beh kiong-tiau 1 hang:

lan chit-ma ti chia tholun che
si ui Hakkhiam mng TBTS si anchoaN beh kai cho TL khaisi--e

goa siuN beh mng: Hakkhaim chit-e bunte kam iau u thang tholun?

goa siuN beh seng ka chit-e chian-te hut hou chheng-choou

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Jun 16, 2008, 1:25:49 AM
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koh lai, na beh chiu untong e liptiuN lai kong

TBTS beh kai TL iah m
nah e msi theh-lai tholun liau chiah cho koatteng

mkoh chitma ma msi koatteng liau lai kong-pou

chitma si ikeng koatteng--a, kam msi?

anne lan taute si teh tholun siaN?

Tekhoa

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Jun 16, 2008, 1:51:32 AM
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Tek-hoa:
Li kong liau u-iaN, goa siuN goa si peh-mng e.
Goa si thak-chia m-si koat-chhek-chia, kong
beh tiau-cha koe-teng si kong sng-chhio e.

Kan-ta kong chia e thak-chia m-si kan-ta goa kam-kak
TBTS ai sio kho-lu chit-e. U chit e thong-ko kong beh kai,
sui-jian chin se, ma sng u thong-ti a.

Goa choe-kin teh gian-kiu e chu-iau si gi-gian hok-heng, gi-gian seng-thai
kah gi-gian jin-khoan e bun-te. Tng teh sia Tai-oan gi-gian
cheng-chhek e pian-chhian,
chit kou-goeh goeh-te ai kau, sou-i choe-kin long teh khoaN-chheh.
Ma teh siuN gi-gian to-goan-hoa/to-iuN-hoa tui gi-gian kui-oe e
eng-hiong. Goa teh siuN
chin che mih-kiaN long kong khau-gi e cheng-heng, na piN-cho su-bin-gi
e siaN-khoan?

Tui gi-gian to-iuN-seng u e khoaN-cho si bun-te, u e kho-cho si
jin-koan, u e khoaN-cho si chu-goan.
Chit 3 chiong chhu-li e hong-sek, na iong ti Tai-gi LMJ he-thong e
choaN-iuN, to he-thong si bun-te?
si khoan-li? si chu-goan?

Beh lai khun a.

Hak-khiam

2008/6/16 Tekhoa <[e-mail]>:

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Jun 16, 2008, 9:47:00 AM
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Senghian :

TL simsi e sengkong, che ai i-au, suiau sikan lai chengbeng. inui chenghap e kiatko si ke 1-tho, chiu chittiam lai kong, goa jim-ui si sitpai e.

Chitma kaukhosu TL khah choe, si inui kongko, Kok-kau-su 4-geh e sichun e hoat-gian, u kholeng kekiam e enghiong kinni chhutpan e kaukhosu, mkoh sikan siong ma u kholeng bo enghiogn tioh, soui ai khoaN moa-ni.

Si annoa chincheng si TLPA, inui 1998 ni u "kongko", mkoh siannoa 2001 i-au e kaukhosu iahkoh u kitha e hethong ? inui ulang e peng KIP e konghoat, KIP kong , imphiau buntoe i-au chiahkoh gian2-gi7, sou-i chhupansia to khoaN chhe siaNlang cho koubun, iahsi i sin to 1-tho.

Kiatko POJ longsi jiokse, to inui bo 1-e chengtika tih ka thin.

Goa iong lenggoa 1-e konghoat. Lan Taioan chitma bo kokche te-ui, sou-i boetang iong Taioan e mia, Tionghoa binkok ma boesai, sou-i lan chhutkhi chhamka kokche pisai iahsi hoegi, ai iong gkikikoaikoai e mia, che tosi thohiap. Lan simsi inui anne, boeki-e kaki e mia kiochoe Taioan ?

Lan na jim-ui thohiap u hiansit siong e suiau, TL tosi thohiap e kiatko. Kauiok hit te, lan boe koh khi iaukiu in iong POJ. Mkoh, POJ kam long ai pang tiau, souu POJ e chugoan long piNchoe TL e chugoan. Anne piNchoe iaukiu goanlai iong POJ e lang thiaNchoe 2-poaN. Goa etang chuntiong li e siuNhoat : khoaNtioh TL e sengkong, oaN 1-e kaktou khoaN, goa khoaNtioh POJ e sitpai kah Taigubun e sitpai (inui ke 1-tho).

Lan kam beh inui lan e iakiutui chhutkhi pisai kiochoe "Tionghoa Taipak tui", soui lan beh piNchoe "Tionghoa Taipak lang" ? Chichio goa si boai lah .

Taitai ihakiN e hakseng e le, in iong TLPA, lan beh soeh-hok in mai iong TLPA, to kanna etang theh TL chhutlai nia, suijian TGBang chuiau si POJ, mkoh i bo koaNhong te-ui, sou-i chiho iong TL, na anne, chittiam goa sengjim TL u i e iong7-chhu3. Goa kong e TLPA e lang bo oa--lai, si chi goanlai sak TLPA hia e lang.

TGBang e jinsou si lan etang koanchhat e tioh e hiansiong. Tognjian li esai kong bo chun, mkoh, goa ma chaiiaN , u chinchoe oh ke POJ e lang ma bo ti TGBang laitoe, inui in bo kajip, lan esai ka tongchoe in bo chunchai, che tosi chincheng TY e luntiam, to sng POJ u bunhian, ulang thak, hesi huisiong chiosou e chiosou lang. Nasi anne, goa kholeng e to3-mng7, TY u goachoe lang, TL u goachoe lang ?

Goa koh ai kiongtiau, TL nasi sengkong, si chi i giu chinchoe goanlai msi lan Taigubun khou-a lai e lang, kasu i ka chhutlai e lang, si lan e 10-poe isiong, tongjian i choattui si sengkong e, mkoh i bo suiau ka goanlai POJ e piaN2 tok choe 2-peng, lai hou i khoaN khilai kaNna u sengkong, he kiochoe khaichiN cho gong7-kang.

Ungian 6.16
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:48:32 +0800, Lau Seng-hian wrote

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Jun 16, 2008, 10:05:44 AM
to [e-mail], Sêng-hiân, 台語網
Takke ho :

Chunchiu e Email u sia 1 toaN Engbun, goa iong Google thekiong e hoanek kongleng ka hoan cho Hoabun : (choekun inui tih sia phoksu lunbun, ai iong Engbun, soui tiaNtiaN suiau iong hoanek e kongleng)

Lenggoa, goa tongi Tekhoa kong e, lan si tih tholun song2 e, inui bohoattou kaipian TBTS kai cho TL e susit. Mkoh goa jim-ui, chit e tongchok tosi e hou lan hunliat e taichi. Chin bu-nai.

Ungian 6.16

If one fails to perceive both the special value objectively accorded to the legitimate use of language and the social foundations of this privilege, one inevitably falls into one or other of two opposing errors.
如果不察覺到雙方的特殊價值，客觀上給予合法使用的語言和社會基礎，這種特權，一無可避免地落入一或其他的兩種對立的錯誤。

Either one unconsciously absolutizes that which is objectively relative and in that sense arbitrary, namely the dominant usage, failing to look beyond the properties of language itself, such as the complexity of its syntactic structure,
其一，不自覺地absolutizes認為，這是客觀的相對，在這個意義上的任意，即佔主導地位的使用情況，未能超越性能的語言本身，例如複雜，其句法結構，
in order to identity the basis of the value that is accorded to it, particularly in the educational market;
在以身份的基礎上的價值，就是賦予它，尤其是在教育市場;
or one escapes this form of fetishism only to fall into the naivety par excellence of the scholarly relativism which forgets the naïve gaze is not relativist, and ignores the fact of legitimacy,
或一逃脫這種形式的拜物教，只有陷入幼稚出色的學術相對而忘記天真的目光，是不是相對，並忽略了一個事實的合法性，
through an arbitrary relativization of dominant usage, which is socially recognized as legitimate, and not only by those who are dominant.
通過一個任意相對優勢的使用，這是社會公認的合法的，而不是只有那些誰是佔主導地位。

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khai
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Jun 16, 2008, 10:46:22 AM
to [e-mail], Sêng-hiân, 台語網
Tak-ge ho,
Goa ke-gau, ka Un-gian e hoan-ek, siu 1 e.
M-chai an-ni si m-si khah ho thak, khah cheng-khak. E-sai tak-ge gian-kiu 1 e.
Khai

If one fails to perceive both the special value objectively accorded to the legitimate use of language and the social foundations of this privilege, one inevitably falls into one or other of two opposing errors.
如果不察覺到雙方的特殊價值，客觀上給予合法使用的語言和這種優先權的社會基礎,　他就會無可避免地落入一個或另一個二元對立的錯誤。

Either one unconsciously absolutizes that which is objectively relative and in that sense arbitrary, namely the dominant usage, failing to look beyond the properties of language itself, such as the complexity of its syntactic structure,
其一，不自覺地使客觀相對關聯和意義上的任意性質絕對化，也就是佔主導地位的使用情況，它本身就未能看到超越語言的性質，例如句法結構的複雜性，

in order to identity the basis of the value that is accorded to it, particularly in the educational market;
要指出根據前述價值的基礎，尤其是在教育市場裡;
or one escapes this form of fetishism only to fall into the naivety par excellence of the scholarly relativism which forgets the naïve gaze is not relativist, and ignores the fact of legitimacy,
或是另一個，逃脫這種拜物教的形式，只有陷入出色的學術相對主義的幼稚標準價值
, 那忘記天真的注目不是相對主義，而忽略了這個合法性的事實，
through an arbitrary relativization of dominant usage, which is socially recognized as legitimate, and not only by those who are dominant.
通過一個任意相對優勢的使用，這是社會公認的合法的，而不是只有那些誰是佔主導地位。

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[e-mail]'s profile photo
[e-mail]
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Jun 16, 2008, 3:52:20 PM
to
Seng-hian peng-an,
E-bin si goa chin-cheng e hoe-eng, ho chhin-chhiuN kia bo chhut--khi, koh kia chit-pian:

Che si pi 殖民chia e pi-ai.
Goa siuN beh kong--e si, TL e cheng-hap si tui TW sia-hoe chin toa e kong-hian, sou-i ti kong-khai tiuN-hap goa si 100% e chi-chhi.

Tan-si chiu-sng TGB, a-si Kau-hoe Kong-po-sia long kai-iong TL, Thong-iong--e kap i 背後e chi-chhi-chia ma eng-oan boe moa-i--e.
Bun-te put-chai su-iong to chit-tho, chai-ti "lang" kun-pun to bo-ai lan eng.

Jin-sek

2008/6/13 Lau Seng-hian <[e-mail]>:

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[e-mail]
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Jun 16, 2008, 9:32:55 PM
to khai, [e-mail], Sêng-hiân, 台語網
各位：tsa-hng ham台南tsit-ping e朋友kang kah 4、5點，tsai-khi寄批無hit-lo khui-lat翻譯，想講提供hoo tak-e參考to e-sai。既然允言兄kap阿凱有興趣，咱tsit-ma khun飽--a，to tiam e-bin thiah hoo peh。另外，請原諒小弟羅馬字khah ham-ban。∕Chun-chiu

Lan leh看1種語言e合法性使用e時，na無注意著lan人客觀附加ti語言合法性使用頂面e價值（好tshin-tshiunn商品「價值」[value，m是price]）、無看著tsit種特權e社會te2-ti3（社會基礎），an-ne lan tiann-tioh e7犯2種互相衝突e錯誤e其中1種。
（語言e合法性使用：1種合法性語言∕1種文化正當性有hoo人承認e語言、書寫系統，e.g. 1930年代台語論者主張e漢字、戰後e華語、跨華語蕃薯頭普遍使用e台語漢字、通用派e羅馬字，抑是TGB內部普遍主張e POJ。）

第一種是語言拜物linguistic fetishism：Ka語言客觀相對--e，ti tsit-e意思頂面是武斷（人為）e語言層面絕對化，也to是ka語言e主流、宰制性使用絕對化，目光（gaze）無法度超越語言本身e形式性質（比論複雜e語法結構），無法度看出（identify）lan人ka「價值」附加ti語言頂面e社會基礎。
（蘇聯形式主義[Bakhtin liah外]、英美新批評；戰後2、30年e台語研究；1930年代台語漢字「合法性」e社會基礎是台灣話文運動者、反對派[e.g.賴明弘]e漢字∕祖國情結；賴明弘theh「祖國」左派e階級觀來反對左派e台灣話文運動to是小弟所講e幼稚病例。華文論者theh華文界e美學標準、學術成規來leh對台文作品、論文ki-ki-tuh-tuh，in論述e社會基礎是戰後建構--起-來e學術kap美學自主性[建構實在constructed reality∕絕對化e美學標準、學術成規、語言使用]；tsit種「建構實在」[華語文學e文化霸權，Bourdieu稱「象徵暴力」]e社會基礎自然是國民黨統治e社會關係。Ti tsit方面，lan台文界「有可能」e7犯--著e fetishism主要發生ti內部e符號爭論、m是外部台語kap華語e關係[因為台語人無承認華語文學e文化霸權]。）

第二種錯誤是學術相對主義scholarly relativism：To sng有法度hainn掉語言拜物，suah墜落另外1種tshenn-tshioh e理論天真：學術相對主義。Tsit種看語言e天真目光並m是相對（主義）--e。學術e相對主義雖bong有看--著ma承認語言e相對性kap武斷，但是無看著（ignores）語言合法性（正當性）宰制e事實：語言e合法性窮實是透過ka語言宰制性使用人為相對化來做tshiann；社會、市面普遍承認語言宰制性使用e正當性，重點是hoo被統治者tah-sim來承認（not only by those who are dominant）。
（1部分e結構語言學kap semiotics符號學。Bourdieu強調--e是被統治者無自覺承認主流語言[殖民語言]合法e象徵暴力統治，hoo人liah去賣koh替人sng錢！「the naïve gaze is not relativist.」小弟翻了無好。「Tsit種天真e目光並m是相對（主義）--e」，意思應該是an-ne：合法性語言e宰制ing-ing是絕對化--e，你suah進1步ka i「相對化」、無承認iah是疏忽i是絕對化、宰制--e，小弟ka稱作double relativization[承認語言e相對性，suah ka語言「宰制」相對化]。最近leh寫胡民祥e論文，theh左派e意識形態理論來讀胡民祥早年e日記；Marx強調意識形態e雙重倒kham[double inversions]；Bourdieu認為美學標準、語言差異（linguistic oppositions）系統，其實是社會差異（social differences）系統翻譯ê翻譯（re-translation）。[Bourdieu 2001：54]，long e-tang看著Marxism掀「社會現狀」真面目e批判方法。）

個人淺見：文字符號e選擇當然有i語言學學理上e道理kap空間，所以ai尊重tsai-pak e語言學家（tshan像王育德、鄭良偉、張裕宏、李勤岸、張學謙、蔣為文等，in見解bo-siang ing-ing來ti實務選擇e策略性考量；但是m-thang ka in ti bo-mih時空情境e見解當作國父「遺教」、「祖宗家法」），TGB e兄姊m-thang la tsham--loh。我無認為tak-e tiann-tioh ai放棄POJ，m-koh ma免ka TBTS改TL看kah hiah嚴重，極ke恢復（？）紙版《TGB通訊》、創刊《TG B/ang Bun-hak》，提高POJ e文學kuan-too to e-sai。看tak-e批信ek來ek去，私心ng-bang：Na是leh討論白化字「文學」，m知lua好。

"Lim [e-mail]" <[e-mail]> 說：
付費才容量無上限？Yahoo!奇摩電子信箱2.0免費給你，信件永遠不必刪！ - 馬上體驗！

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TADA Kei
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:05:13 PM
to 台語網
Hak-khiam hiaN, Kam-sia li e kou-le.
Goa siuN TBTS cho koat-teng e si, lang-sou eng-kai bo saN che.
In u sin-sim, ia bo sin-sim?
I-keng kho-lu tioh lan ti chia tho-lun e bun-te, ah bo?
Lan m chai-iaN.

Sou-i goa-khau e siaN-im tho-lun hou TBTS chai-iaN, si chit-e chin u
i-gi e tai-chi.
KhoaN TBTS beh an-choaN siu-cheng.

Goa siuN ti chia tho-lun u i-gi.

Gou lau-su kong tioh pi-sit-bin-chia e pi-ai.
228 e si, Taioan e ti-sek-hun-chu / leng-to-chia long hou thai liau-liau.
Si-m-si cho-seng pho-hoai Tai-oan e ke-tat the-he.
Ti-su chit-ma bo chun-tiong thoan-thong i-kip hak-sut koan-ui.

Ah-si, si Chi-na-tek e su-kho, chhiuN kah-i Han-ji, Bun-gian-bun tt.
ti-su Taioan lang khoaN-khin POJ kap gi-gian e gian-kiu.

TADA

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<陳柏壽's profile photo
<陳柏壽
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Jun 17, 2008, 9:01:49 AM
to "[e-mail] (\"Kei TADA\"), [e-mail] (\"台語網\")"@imo-m25.mx.aol.com, <陳柏壽
Tada sang Hakkhiam kausiu, Ungian kausiu ikip cheng hiaNche
Goa ma chin chanseng chiong chit hang toa sukiaN khongtoa chhutlai, taike chohoe lai sukho/hunsek, anni taichi chiu be7 hou sio-sou kui-lang lai khongche.
tan pheksiu