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# System prepended metadata

title: '[INTERNAL NOTES] EESSI meeting in Amsterdam (2022-09)'

---

# [INTERNAL NOTES] EESSI meeting in Amsterdam (2022-09)

Internal notes below, copy-pasted from https://hackmd.io/WJz9RJA6RpOcgMWc4Oym1g originally.

Public-facing page is at https://eessi.github.io/docs/meetings/2022-09-amsterdam/ (once PR is merged)

--- 

## Practical info

- in conjunction with CernVM workshop @ Nikhef (Mon-Tue 12-13 Sept'22)
    - see https://indico.cern.ch/event/1079490
- dates: Wed-Fri 14-16 Sept'22
- venue: the "Polderzaal" at Cafe-Restaurant Polder [location](https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Science+Park+201,+1098+XH+Amsterdam/@52.3546615,4.9504205,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c60944a3e28c25:0xf450971b8bdeea2d!8m2!3d52.3546582!4d4.9526092?hl=nl&shorturl=1)
    - hosted by SURF
- registration links
    - physically attending: [registration link](https://events.surf.nl/kort14/open/b53c4d85-65a7-4ed7-a2cf-8a2d1d3556ea?culture=en-US)
    - virtually attending: [registration link](https://events.surf.nl/kort4/open/d80bb791-2a2c-4745-a9dc-d0ed4f05117c?culture=en-US)

## Attendees

### Physically attending

- Caspar van Leeuwen (SURF, NL) + 4 colleagues
    - Mon-Fri
- Terje Kvernes (UiO) [**to be confirmed**]
    - Wed-Fri?
- Kenneth Hoste (HPC-UGent, BE) [**confirmed & booked**]
    - Mon-Fri
- Henk-Jan Zilverberg (RUG, NL) [not on thursday]
- Alan O'Cais (CECAM) [**confirmed & booked**]
    - Wed-Fri
- Thomas Röblitz (UiB) [**confirmed & booked**]
    - Wed-Fri
- Dan Johnson (UiT) [**to be confirmed**]
- Jaco van Dijk (Dell)
- 2 people from TU Delft
- Peter Stol (VU)
- 2 people from Wageningen UR
    - Gwen Dawes
    - Jan van Haarst (only Wednesday)

### Remotely attending (via Zoom/Slack)

- Jure Pečar (EMBL)
- Bob Dröge (RUG, NL) [**uncertain**]
- 2 from SURF
- 1 from TU Eindhoven
- 1 from Univ. of Amsterdam
- 1 from Radboud Univ.
- Bart Oldeman (ComputeCanada)

## Agenda

*(subject to changes)*

We envision a mix of presentations, experience reports, demos, and hands-on sessions and/or hackathons related to the EESSI project.

**If you would like to give a talk or host a session, please let us know via the EESSI Slack!**

### Wed 14 Sept'22

- [10:00-13:00] Welcome + lunch
    - [10:00-10:30] Walk-in, coffee
    - [10:30-12:00] Round table discussion [**Kenneth**]
        - Who are you - where do you work - what do you do?
        - Which hardware do you have (CPU arch, interconnect)?
        - How do you do software installation?
        - Do you (always) use EasyBuild?
        - How many people install software centrally?
        - Do users install software themselves?
        - How long is the backlog for software installation requests?
        - Which compiler toolchain(s) are you using? (compiler, MPI, BLAS/LAPACK)
        - To what extent do you optimize your software installations?
        - To what extent is software being tested after installation?
        - What is your interest in EESSI?
- [12:00-13:00] Lunch
- [13:00-15:00] Presentations
    - [13:00-15:00] talks on EESSI
        - [13:00-13:30] 001 - Introduction (how did it came to be, why use it, how does it work, etc) [**Caspar**]
        - [13:30-14:00] 002 - Hands-on: how to use EESSI with EESSI-demo examples [**Kenneth**]
        - [14:00-14:30] 003 - EESSI use cases: uniform software stack, CI, working with developers, training, ... [**Alan? Kenneth?**]
        - [14:30-15:00] 004 - EESSI for sysadmins: installing and mounting EESSI (native + using containers) [**Thomas** + Kenneth]
            - cfr. https://easybuild.io/eum22/#eessi-getting-started
            - add info on proxy + Stratum-1 for production setup
            - point to https://cvmfs-contrib.github.io/cvmfs-tutorial-2021
- [15:00-15:30] Coffee break
- [15:00-17:00] Presentations (continued)
    - [15:30-16:00] 005 - Hands-on: installing EESSI [**Thomas/Kenneth**]
        - cfr. https://github.com/EESSI/eessi-demo/tree/main/scripts
    - [16:00-16:45] 006 - ComputeCanada site talk [**Bart Oldeman**, remote]
    - [16:45-17:15] 007 - Magic Castle [**Felix-Antoine Fortin**, remote]
- [19:00] Group dinner, Saravanaa Bhavan, Stadhouderskade 123-124, Amsterdam

### Thu 15 Sept'22

- [09:30-12:00] More focused presentations, use cases, demos (suggestions welcome)
    - [09:30-10:00] 010 - EESSI behind the scenes: compat layer (**talk by Kenneth/Bob?**)
        - How is it constructed, how is it kept up to date, terminology, what are open questions, etc
    - [10:00-10:30] 011 - EESSI behind the scenes: software layer (**talk by Kenneth/Thomas**)
        - How is software deployed now? How will we do that in the future?
        - Dealing with community contributions => bot
        - Versioning?
        - Module tree: multiple views? Organized in generations? hierarchical vs flat?
        - Policy to include software
    - [10:30-11:00] Coffee break
    - [11:00-11:30] 012 - EESSI behind the scenes: infrastructure (**talk by Terje?**)
    - [11:30-12:00] 013 - Status on RISC-V support (**talk by Kenneth**, input from Guilherme/Atharva)
- [12:00-13:00] Lunch
- [13:00-13:30] 014 - Status on GPU support [**talk by Alan**]
- [13:30-14:00] 015 - Status on build-and-deploy bot [**talk by Thomas**]
- [14:00-15:00] Discussions/hands-on sessions/hackathon
    - Hands-on with GPUs
        - joining: Alan
        - tasks: test GPU support WIP PR (Alan/Michael)
    - Hands-on with bot
        - joining: Thomas, Kenneth
        - tasks
            - get Thomas' PR merged (should already be done by that)
            - set up development environment for working on bot
            - implement deploy phase
            - tackle small issues
                - update comment when job has started running
                - see https://github.com/EESSI/eessi-bot-software-layer/labels/hackathon-2022-09
            - design + discuss + implement test phase
- [15:00-15:30] Coffee break
- [15:30-17:00] Discussions/hands-on sessions/hackathon (continued)
- [19:00] Group dinner, Italia Oggi, Binnen Bantammerstraat 11, Amsterdam

### Fri 16 Sept'22

- [09:30-12:00] Presentations on future work? (suggestions welcome)
    - [09:30-10:00] 020 - Testing in software layer [**Caspar**]
        - What do we want to test? (performance, functionality, scale of the tests, regression, etc)
        - Example of portable test (GROMACS)
    - [10:00-10:30] 021 - MultiXscale project [**talk by Alan/Kenneth/Thomas?**]
        - Goals & scope
        - Work packages overview
        - Relation between EESSI & MultiXscale
    - [10:30-11:00] Coffee break
    - [11:00-11:30] 022 - Short-term future work? [**talk by Kenneth/Alan/Bob**]
        - eessi.io domain
        - new pilot version
        - another community meeting in 2023?
- [11:30-12:00] 023 - Discussion: future management structure of EESSI
    - Steering committee? Technical committee?
- [12:00-13:00] Lunch
- [13:00-14:00] Site reports (15 or 20 mins each)
    - 024 - NESSI [**Thomas**]
    - 025 - HPCNow! [**Danilo**]
    - NLPL (point of view from software developers) (unconfirmed, Thomas will ask them)
    - Elixir: how does Elixir do software deployment (unconfirmed, Thomas will ask them)
    - Azure?
    - HPC.NRW?
    - Dell? [**Jaco?**]
- [14:00-14:30] 029 - Discussion: what would make or break EESSI for your site?
    - technical requirements, hurdles + roadblocks
- [14:30-15:45] Discussions/hands-on sessions/hackathon
    - Hands-on with GPU support WIP PR
        - joining: Alan
        - tasks: test GPU support WIP PR (Alan/Michael)
    - Hands-on with bot
        - joining: Thomas, Kenneth
        - tasks
            - get your bot instance running
            - design + discuss + implement test phase
            - get Thomas' PR merged
            - implement deploy phase
    - Hands-on with software testing (GROMACS PR)
- LEAVE ROOM BY 16:00

### Ideas

- ideas for site reports
    - HPC.NRW? (Robert Schade?)
    - Azure? (Hugo Meiland?)

## Topics for the discussions

### Policies

- Having software added to the stack
- Updating and/or removing software from the stack
- Updating/modifying the compatibility layer
- Lifespan and EOL announcements for releases

### Technical/infra

- Provider dependencies, how hard should we push to be provider agnostic? How important is this technically and politically?
- Hardware platform priorities (both for architectures and microarchitectures)
- Software scope, what is scientific software (examples such as rstudio/rstudio-server/visual studio code server etc)?
- Toolchain support, which toolchains and when we add software do we add to specific toolchains only? Are toolchains immutable (can we change versions of software ever in them)?

## TODO

- Caspar: arrange video & audio recorder (check with Alan, and/or internally)
- Caspar: ask internal services if we can borrow some 'desktop' screens for hackathon groups
- Caspar: find the official government recommendations on Covid-19, and include them in mail to participants
- Caspar: send a reminder on Slack & e-mail. Close registration 9th of September. Mention that agenda 'more or less' final.
- Caspar: pick 2 restaurants and reserve 15 people for both days, we'll fix the restaurant for Friday on Wednesday (maybe https://restaurant1eklas.nl/ ?)
- Kenneth: set up slide decks
- Kenneth: contact Jaco on group dinner
- Thomas: ask Terje w.r.t. talk (remote if need be)
- Bob: ask Bart's talk