Collaborative document uses at CSC
Update:
After writing this document we took HedgeDoc for test: Siili
5/2023: Siili has been used in multiple occasions and the demand is there. Now we are looking for more permanent solution.
This document is meant to highlight the need for a better solution for collaborative document at CSC; HackMD has been used, but does not function satisfactorily anymore.
This is NOT a request for another service for our customers, but for internal use in cases where customers are involved. I.e. the idea is NOT that we would host notes for customers but only our own course and event stuff.
This topic is somewhat urgent, as upcoming courses plan to use a collaborative document
HackMD
HackMD is a webservice providing collaborative documents which can be accessed and edited anonymously and at the same time by multiple people. One writes in Markdown language (which is very close to plain text with only some extra signs, which are ~self-explanatory), but at the same time the document can be seen in rendered clean format:
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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The service is currently used in multiple courses and events for collaborative note taking and Q&A.
HackMD use at CSC
Many online and hybrid courses made use of HackMD:
- Machine Learning and Deep Learning courses
- some GIS events and courses
- CodeRefinery course
- Using CSC environment efficiently courses
- Bioinfo courses
- HPC courses
- Advanced GROMACS workshops
- …
It is also used in several other events, such as the LUMI user support session and the CSC research support sessions.
Why we like HackMD
- on the fly rendering
- no need to worry about formatting
- markdown is familiar to many from eg github
- nice formatting of code
- anonymous editing
- no login needed
- possibility for nice URLs
- possibility for quick presentation material generation; even slides!
- teams; possibility for private notes
- possible github integration -> version control
- observable number of people looking at the file at any time
The issue
Lately HackMD has been buggy and not user friendly due to issues on their end. Previously we made good experiences with up to 300 people editing the document at the same time.
It is unclear if it is a ressource or software problem, but it became quite unusable at times.
What we need from such service
- intuitive interface
- login only for note creation
- edit rights for "everyone with link" without any login
- basic formatting options
- nice render for sharing "results"
- something "familiar"
Additional for courses
- multi user editing possibility
- archive/knowledgebase; easy browsing
- no need for HAKA/CSC/VIRTU or similar account for editing
Additional for collaboration
- visual vs text is a preference; both would be nice to have
- public/private documents
For courses paid HackMD or in house maintained CodiMD/Hedgedoc seem good alternatives.
For within team collaboration, all options are good and should be open for teams to choose
Some options
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paid HackMD enterprise plan: https://hackmd.io/pricing#
- -> unclear if it would resolve the issue (Self-hosting of paid instance would!)
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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customers and lecturers are already familiar with the layout
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
no customer log in needed; anonymous editing
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
low own maintenance
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
costs
- There is a discount for open-source communities and education organizations as well as Nonprofit sponsorship program.
-
hosting own CSC internal instance of HedgeDoc (which is the community driven open source version of HackMD: https://hedgedoc.org/)
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
many customers and lecturers are already familiar with the layout
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
the data is ours and not somewhere in the open
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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no customer log in needed
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
anonymous Q&A; lowers the barrier to ask "stupid questions"
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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Aalto Scientific Computing has made good experiences with hundreds of editors at same time; config can be copied from them: https://github.com/AaltoSciComp/hedgedoc-k8s
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
someone has to install and maintain it
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Hosting own CSC internal instance of CodiMD (similar to HedgeDoc)
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hosting own CSC internal instance of Etherpad (https://etherpad.org/):
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
/
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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many of above apply
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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no experiences with large courses
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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less functionality than other options
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Google docs
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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It's google
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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unknown capabilities for many editors at same time
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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formatting; clutter
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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familiar to many
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
/
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
"What you see is what you get" (WYSIWYG)
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Eduuni Wiki
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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only 1-8 multi-person editing at same time possible
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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/
Image Not Showing
Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
clean render, but not as nice as hackmd
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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Feels more complicated than it needs to be
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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login/sharing etc?
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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reload needed to see updates when not in edit mode
- More info: https://wiki.csc.fi/SITI_Users/WorkingAtADistance?validation_key=1c0c06a02ff1cd2ccd15581f59ec716e#Simultaneous_document_processing_and_collaboration_sites
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chat.csc.fi
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- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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with threads you can easily see questions and answers are "hidden" in threads
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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/
Image Not Showing
Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
easy login with Haka, but does require login
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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no "permanent record" or "archive" afterwards, unless it's done manually
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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not for collaborating on same text
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Conceptboard
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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nice for collaborating
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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not for long texts
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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can get chaotic when multiple people edit at same time
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Miro
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
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really good for collaboration
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Possible Reasons
- The image file may be corrupted
- The server hosting the image is unavailable
- The image path is incorrect
- The image format is not supported
Learn More →
versatile
- user sign up requirements?
- Max num of collaborators?
- Limitations? (What can be done if things get stuck?)
Questions for/about paid HackMD
- Can teams be moved from free version to paid one? Does that depend on where it is hosted?
- Can it be hosted on our servers to keep the data in-house?
- If we host HackMD on our servers is it then completely our job to maintain? Does it affect the price?
- What is hardware/software setup is needed for hosting?
- We estimate to have ~10 notes with 100-200 users and ~100 notes with 10-20 users. How much is the cost?